View Full Version : Anyone here have any insight into Nor Cal PHRF ratings?

01-28-2014, 07:57 PM
I'm trying to solve this riddle. There are two Downwind ratings for J/120's in the database. 540 and 555. The boat with the 555 has a 100% jib vs. 155% and a 1265 sq. ft. spinnaker vs. ~1750 sq. ft. There standard rating is 51 vs. 48, but there Downwind rating is 15 seconds different.

The question is, are they getting a credit for the smaller spinnaker? I emailed Nor Cal PHRF and asked basically the same question regarding the Downwind rating and the response I got was that the smaller jib is a 3 second credit, but no credit is given the for smaller spinnaker. That's the answer I got, but I'm not sure I believe that is the correct answer. Maybe that is correct for the standard 51 vs. 48 rating, but it certainly doesn't explain the 15 second difference for the Downwind rating.

I'm trying to determine if I carry a smaller A2 (~1400 sq. ft) will I get a credit. Well, I'm going to carry the smaller A2 regardless, but I wondering if I can should carry the bigger kites too because my rating didn't change for the smaller kite or not.

Sorry if SHTP doesn't use Downwind ratings. I can't remember who does what. I don't know where else to ask that I might get a straight answer.

01-28-2014, 08:25 PM
"I cannot forecast to you the action of Russia. It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key. That key is Russian national interest."

For Russia, read?

01-28-2014, 08:58 PM
Winston Churchill, famous fella, not a sailor

01-28-2014, 09:10 PM
He was First Lord of the Admiralty before WWI. And that counts.

Also, he didn't say "Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy, and the lash." but he should have.

Here he is in the uniform of the Royal Yacht Squadron


01-28-2014, 10:33 PM
Shearwater, I think the SSS uses the "Base" PHRF and puts it through the Singlehanded Transpac formula that's on one of the final pages of the race rules. Check out the SSS Home Page and follow through with the SHTP button. The SHTP formula is similar (if not identical) to the one used by the PacCup. And, the end result should be fairly similar to a J/120's NCPHRF Downwind Rating. I think J/120's have sailed the SHTP, so you should be able to get a good idea by asking or checking SHTP Results.

01-28-2014, 10:41 PM
Hi Shearwater - It was great to meet you and your wife on Sunday. After the lecture I wandered off to talk to the shipping companies and went down to look at the demo vessels. I then showed SMBReno my J/92 and lost track of you guys. Anyway . . .

The regular PHRF ratings assume the largest spinnaker for which a J/XX is normally rated. If you choose to carry a smaller one, you don't get a credit. Not true for DW ratings as I understand it. It is a formula which is supposedly driven largely by spinnaker area and boat displacement. If you carry smaller kites, you should see a favorable adjustment in your DW rating. However the lack of transparency is vexing.

02-05-2014, 11:10 AM
When you apply for the rating you fill out extensive forms, those go up for review and the review committee decides for you.

02-05-2014, 01:56 PM
Thanks WIDMAT. I get that, but the question I'm trying to determine in advance is whether I will get a credit if my largest spinnaker is 1400 sq. ft vs 1750 sq. ft. Obviously, if I get a credit, then I will only include the dimensions for the small spinnaker and not carry the larger one, BUT if I don't get a credit I would want to include the dimensions for the larger spinnaker and carry it aboard even if I didn't plan to use it much, just in case.

I think I've found a solution. I'm applying with just my smaller spinnaker. We'll see if my rating is different than the other J/120's. I should have an answer that way and then I can adjust from there.

Great meeting you too Bob and thanks for the RYC hookup. I'm really just interested in the DW rating. Also, I measured my big A2... It's actually 1850 sq. ft. A full 100 sq. ft. larger than what the J/120's in SF Bay run. Oof. No wonder that thing was hard to handle. I'm sending in my NorCal application this week. It will be interesting to see the outcome.