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jimb522
06-27-2015, 05:46 PM
Hello,
I have been maintaining an interest in the SHTP since 2008, and and for various reasons (mostly work obligations since I am self employed in a small business) havent been able to put it together.
I was interested in the 2014 race and had spent a bucketfull of money rebuilding and modifying a 36 foot tri. Unfortunately, I sank it in 15 feet of water in August, 2013, and that was the end of that.
We salvaged the boat and now I am putting it back together. Obviously, every single electrical component has to be replaced new. I am entering the recently announced Pensacola to Havana race starting October 31, 2015, a 550 mile sprint. We will be sailing in 2 months and have two months to de-bug and sea-trial it, prior to that race. I will singlehand the boat back to Louisiana, about 650 miles, to see if I think its safe, (or I am perhaps) for entering the SHTP.
Here is the question.
What simple nav and comm equipment setups will do the job. I know I am installing an NKE autopilot and other NKE systems (wind, speed) I want AIS, and I am leaning toward InavX in the IPAS, with a couple of handheld GPS backups. Also Delorme tracking. I will only have solar power, and perhaps a Honda 2000 eu genset BOat will be full LED lights equipped.
Any suggestions, critiques, or comments with regard to specific equipment, or installation will be appreciated.
Jim

Harrier
07-03-2015, 08:55 AM
My boat has solar power (max possible 9 amps when the sun orientation is good). This is nowhere near enuf to satisfy my autopilot draw, esp when things get a little rough. I have an inboard engine and "feed" the batteries with it as necessary. I also carry a Honda AND a 30 amp batt charger to plug into it (the direct output of the 12V plug on the Honda is only 8 amps). Sounds like a nice new auto bilge pump would give you needed peace of mind.....Enjoy the race!

BobJ
07-03-2015, 05:43 PM
If you're installing NKE instruments and autopilot you have a lot more money than most of us! What are you using for a drive unit? It makes a huge difference in draw.

I used GPSNavX on a MacBook for the 2006 race, MacENC on the same MacBook in 2008 and iNavX on an iPad (and iPhone) last year. Overlaying weather charts (downloaded via satphone) was easy. I used an Iridium phone and Iridium's AxcessPoint last year but I think their GoPhone is the current equivalent (the wireless hub is built in).

If you want to chat with the other skippers an SSB is also nice, but if you get too chatty it will use up your available electrons.

I have 2x43 watt Kyoceras and a 45 watt flexible panel on the dodger - about the same max output as Harrier's. If we'd had more sun during the race this would have been enough, but we didn't. I burned maybe five gallons of fuel using the Yanmar as a battery charger. YMMV.

jimb522
07-03-2015, 08:28 PM
Harrier and BobJ
I appreciate your responses. The history of this boat is one I got too deep into, and stupidly spent about $100K rebuilding a boat over a two year period, that I bought for $2000.00. It was not premeditated, but something that just kind of kept sucking me into it like brer rabbit and the tarbaby. "stupidly" becuase it was like building a mansion in the ghetto. I was in the debugging it stage when I sank it, when a hatch cover in the starboard ama came loose and it down-flooded very quickly in a six mile race at almost the half-way point. There are a set of new bilge pumps for the ama's that were going to go into the amas, but my impatience to go sailing and see how fast it would go in a little short race on a gorgious day, in Lake Pontchartrain, bit me in the ass. Actually, the bilge pumps would have probably been inadequate, but a bilge alarm would have solved that problem. Harrier was rather right on with his observation.
The NKE stuff is because I know its the best, and the most important equipment, other then B&G, which is even more expensive. My advisor, who has raced the SHTP, Ryan Finn, thinks it overkill for that race, and a waste of money. Its certainly not going to leave much for anything else, hence my post on the forum. But in reading the forum, autopilot failure is clearlyseems to be the most vexing problem of the many problems that arise, and the rest of the electronics are relatively cheap by comparison. The fact that the boat is a trimaran with some moderate speed potential means to me that the autopilot has to have more capability to steer and react quickly. If I was racing my J35, I probably would not use NKE. My quess is that all those folks from Europe sailing the various open classes and mini's must know something. THe boat has a 8hp Tohatsu outboard, so there is no realistic battery charging there. That leaves the Honda and Solar. Fortunately I had not installed the solar panels yet when I sank it, so That is money that I dont have to spend again. I had purchased an ICOM SSB too, that was not installed too. I gather that weather faxes are the best thing for those of us that GRIB files intimidate.
THe NKE is not purchased yet as we are still trying to figure out what we need. I know the hydralic drive burns more battery, but is stronger and quicker. I am having to build another rudder as one of the bugs was a totally inadequate trudder that would not steer the boat becasue the Raymarine GP 4000 wouldnt react fast enough, and when it did, the boat was already out of control and couldnt be brought back. This is a function of another factor, which is a 12 foot longer mast, a 4 foot longer J measurement, achieved with a bowsprit, and

jimb522
07-03-2015, 08:34 PM
sorry, I hit send accidentally:
It was supposed to say and some big ass sails. We are going to take it down the Gulf coast for an extensaive shakedown and try to optimize the boat and sail handling procedures, and see what works. I dont really think that I have hotrodded the boat too much for it to handle by todays standards. It is too heavy and could never compete with a Farrier 31, which is blindingly fast by comparison, although not as comfortable to spend time in the cabin on.
In two months we will have the boat sailing, and have two more months to fine-tune it. If it isnt safe, then I have a flashy day sailor and will not go offshore, as my wife doesnt care to handle my debt load. Being on the boat when it flipped has made her somewhat cantankerous.
Jim

Gamayun
07-03-2015, 11:27 PM
Harrier and BobJ
I appreciate your responses. The history of this boat is one I got too deep into, and stupidly spent about $100K rebuilding a boat over a two year period, that I bought for $2000.00.

Wow, now I'm kinda feeling better about all the upgrades I did on my boat...

jimb522
07-05-2015, 04:13 PM
sometimes boats are like women. A guy can get kind of carried away.

Tchoupitoulas
07-07-2015, 04:47 PM
Hey JimB can we get a picture of your boat? And do tell more about this race to Havana please.

jimb522
07-07-2015, 07:21 PM
I will be happy to attach a picture if someone will tell me how.
Pensacola Yacht Club, Penscola Florida, is holding a race from Pensacola to Hemingway Marina about 9 miles West of Havana. I organized one of the last races there in April 1999 and the Feds shut racing down for years after that up until this year, when Obama reopened diplomatic restrictions and eased enforcement of the trading with the enemy act.
Pensacola YC has done it right and gotten a general license and each boat can get a license to participate. Instructions are on the PYC website. The race will start on Oct. 31, 2015 and go direct to the finish line at Heminway marina. 500 nautical miles on a course of about 148 degrees. The pilot charts for November at first glance look like about a 75-80 percent chance of a NE wind, or a port beam reach going and starboard beam reach coming back. I hope to stop at the Dry Tortugas (70 miles West of Key West on my sail back, as I have never been. Wind that time of year should be 10 to 18, and overall conditions fair. Temps very moderate, but not blistering hot and humid like now.
.Havana is beat up, poor, and very interesting. I found the cubans loved us (or american dollars more likely) and I had fun wandering around there for a week. Prices are going to go up and there will be a tourist boom as tons of capital is going to be poured into Cuba for development of tourism. Thats my general view of the future.
I do believe it is safe, and they really want us there.
You will have fun if you come, and the water is beautiful. The race is oriented toward racer/cruisers, with the emphasis more on cruisers. BUt, Pensacola Yacht Club knows how to run a race, and those more interested in racing will have great ride too.
Jim
Jim

CRC1965
07-25-2015, 03:38 PM
I am curious if you have purchased the NKE system. I went way over the top on my J/88 and did. I think you will find if you look at B&G it comes in quite a few flavors and they offer similar systems for similar dollars. I love my system.....but the interface is not a clean as the B&G; and support is further away and in French ;-).
The pilot drives the boat beautifully in waves with the kite up (Waves being 4-6 foot coastal Coastal CA and SF Bay)..so far.
The reason I purchased the system is the remote....it offers a "fail safe" mode that puts the boat head to wind if separated from the system by 50 feet or so. I have not tested it yet...it gives me some peace of mind. Realistically if you fell of the boat with the kite up, even if the boat went head to wind it would probably drift aways faster than one could swim.....but I try not to think about that.

Also, they Raymarine Products offer a lot of bang for the buck and don't forget to look at Pelagic Autopilot!!!!!

BobJ
07-25-2015, 04:03 PM
Great to see all your posts Chris - I think you've got the bug.

I've been throwing good money after bad (well hopefully not) and updating my Raymarine stuff. Their new displays are SeaTalkNG (compatible with NMEA 2000) and are bright and very readable. Last year (for Pacific Cup) I bought a new Garmin 7" chartplotter that's visible in the cockpit via a swing-arm mount just inside the companionway. It has a feed from the AIS (in my VHF radio) so the AIS targets are in both places. With its AIS alarm the Garmin also takes the place of my old stand-alone AIS that's now aboard Stink Eye.

Anyway, I'm regretting the Garmin chartplotter purchase - I should have bought a Raymarine MFD instead. I can't update the firmware in any of my new Raymarine components without a Raymarine MFD - I have to ship them off to Ray's service facility. (Whereas I can update the Garmin stuff via computer and Garmin cable.)

If any of you have a Raymarine MFD (with a card slot) and are willing to have me come aboard with my Ray components and a data card, I'll be able to update everything.

jimb522
07-25-2015, 04:06 PM
I am curious if you have purchased the NKE system. I went way over the top on my J/88 and did. I think you will find if you look at B&G it comes in quite a few flavors and they offer similar systems for similar dollars. I love my system.....but the interface is not a clean as the B&G; and support is further away and in French ;-).
The pilot drives the boat beautifully in waves with the kite up (Waves being 4-6 foot coastal Coastal CA and SF Bay)..so far.
The reason I purchased the system is the remote....it offers a "fail safe" mode that puts the boat head to wind if separated from the system by 50 feet or so. I have not tested it yet...it gives me some peace of mind. Realistically if you fell of the boat with the kite up, even if the boat went head to wind it would probably drift aways faster than one could swim.....but I try not to think about that.

Also, they Raymarine Products offer a lot of bang for the buck and don't forget to look at Pelagic Autopilot!!!!!


I have gone so far as to send off a request to Euro Trading to spec out a NKE system for me, and have not received a reply as of yet. I told them that I wanted a system that would steer to true wind, and give me the information to create polars. I would be very interested in hearing what specific parts of the NKE system you got on your J88, and what it is capable of . Did you use an NKE hydralic drive, or somethiing else. What is the current draw? I would also be curious as to its cost, and what, if anything you would want to add, or subtract, and why. So far, you are the only person I have heard from that has actually put one on their boat and used it. Any other advice would be very much appreciated. Thank you.
Jim Bates

BobJ
07-25-2015, 04:14 PM
Jim, there's also a local J/105 owner who installed an NKE system awhile back and seems happy with it. He's done some SSS races and may watch this board. Doug Bailey who owns AKULA. Doug, are you lurking?

jimb522
07-25-2015, 04:29 PM
BobJ,
Thanks, I really want to get all the info I can, as I have about two months to put it together and then two months to sail and use it. Incidentally, Since I broke the mast at the mid-point sleeve when I flipped it, we are in the process of putting it back together, and the young man, Ryan Finn, who has been doing the work for me, is doing a beautiful job. He found some "sheave-less" exit boxes at colligo, ao there are only two sheaves (the two main halyards) in a six halyard mast. Also, the only metal is the mast tube itself, and the headstay, and the wire headstay with a harken furler on itt, plus the diamond stays. The headstay is attached to a dynex dux loop syspended between two "cheeky tangs" from colligo. It may be that I am just showing my age, and that everyone already knows about all that stuff. But is is new to me for sure.
I have decided that I am going to ask B&G for a spec sheet for my mission just to keep NKE honest.
Jim

CRC1965
07-25-2015, 04:32 PM
Bob Congdon is the NKE guy....San Diego based. Super nice, super helpful! My boat is light 5,000 lbs...so went with a morse cable connected to tiller (transom hung rudders have all sorts of challenges). Current draw is in the 3-4 amps range (so far.....beam reaching 25-30 knots, heavy seas). But again my boat is light and tiller is pretty well balanced. Similar draw with kit up and gain up so pilot making a lot of changes. True wind steering is easy with the system, toggle compass to true to apparent. I have two multi function displays..because they are a key part of the autopilot system..they do some of the processing.....also two incase one is damaged...though two almost necessary to avoid having to toggle constantly. It outputs a NMEA data stream wirelessly so you can capture all the data you want and more.......Part of the system includes there high end compass, and the usual speed/depth transducers, autopilot brain/cpu, GPS, I am sure I am forgetting something. Again I am happy......but you really should get a quote for B&G to compare....they are not that different. Cost of installation is about 50% of the electronics cost unless you plan to do it yourself........keep in mind that would be a very large project and installation issues are the most common source of autopilot failures......so I have read ;-)

IF i had a bigger boat I would go B&G and interface with one of their beautiful chartplotters at a NAV station...overlay radar etc.......

I link to a microsoft surface pro wirelessly.....works nicely (small footprint and current demand for a small boat)
I also have a ipad as a second device also wireless link both display AIS information.

FINALLY.........get a Vesper Watchmate. AIS transponder, GPS, wifii hub etc. The company is from down under they are incredibly responsive, the product works great out of the box. If you are going to spend NKE/B&G buck this is a no brainer safety issue.

jimb522
07-25-2015, 04:48 PM
Chris,
My boat is 6500 pounds, plus or minus. I just got a Farrier 33 rudder that we are replacing my homemake NACA 12 foil with. It is twice the size and depth. Did you go with a NKE hydralic drive? If so, which one. I am thinking about their "32" model. Your amp draw is going to create a power challenge, but I half expected that. I really really appreciate the equipment suggestions. Perhaps you could email me bob congdon's email. Unless your wife hasnt been told what it cost to get where you are, I am curious as to how much I need to prepare to spend.
Thanks,
Jim

BobJ
07-25-2015, 04:49 PM
Jim, say Hi to Ryan for me. He raced the SHTP in 2004 with a J/90, a little carbon rocketship that has similar "accommodations" to a J/80. He got some bad routing advice (like we did in last year's PacCup) and didn't do too well, but he's a world class sailor. Ryan also gave me some help remotely before my SHTP's. I'm sure the class of 2004 would like to see him come out and give it another go.

jimb522
07-25-2015, 05:12 PM
I will tell him hello for you Monday when he comes back to work on the boat. I met him prior to his 2004 SHTP effort, and again when he was putting together his mini prior to his European sailing campaign. Finally he is the owner of a custom made quarter-ton designed by Lonnie Stoner for me in about 1978 which was originally named "coonass", with appropriate graphics. I did not cover myself with glory with that boat, but Ryan is kicking light-air butt in the local races. I have looked at his MaxSea routing program and it is pretty impressive. He just used it to deliver a his father's J160 to its new owner through the canal from florida, and up to San Diego. Incidentally, he will be the one who will be doing the auto pilot installation.
Jim

CRC1965
07-25-2015, 05:54 PM
Ooops. AMP draw is less. Typical 2.5 amps seldom 3. 4 amps is total draw with every electronic item on the boat running (VHF, AIS Transponder, Surface Pro Tablet, Charging some electronics, a few LED lights). The picture attached shows the basic installation. Under the tiller is a second stub tiller (this connects to the morse cable...which then routes through the hull to the electric motor mounted safely below. I have quick disconnect for the autopilot that leads to the end of the tiller. The black plastic block mounted on the deck puts the morse cable at the same level as the stub tiller. It would have been nice to be lower and avoid this....BUT...had an access panel I wanted to keep available.1044

jimb522
07-25-2015, 06:23 PM
Chris,
I would not have thought of a stub tiller. My set-up is a bit more complex, as my boat has a 4 foot hull extention with an oil derrick looking affair on it to hold solar panels. The transom mounted tiller is in back of the original transom, so a linkage had to be made to connect the two. but the push-pull cable is a neat idea. The forum has already given me a couple of ideas that I may be able to use. What a great resource.

BobJ,
I have a Petrson 1/2 tonner that won the North American CHampionship in the mid-70's when sailed by O.J. Young, in Gulfport, Mississippi. It was named "Mouth" with a big shark's mouth on the front. Everyone knew it was named after O.J. however as he was quite a screamer. The boat is sitting on a trailer, and needs a total restoration for racing. I will offer to pay for the parts and let Ryan bring it to the SHTP, if he has the energy to put in the labor to do it. I dont have the time. I bought it thinking that it might be a good Bermuda 1-2 boat, with water ballast, but I have been too afflicted by the multihull bug, and only have time and mental energy to devote to the multihull at this time.

Can someone tell me the basic layout of a wireless system on a boat? Is that a separate item that all the other gear connects to, for purposes of transmitting data, or is it contained within the various pieces of electronic gear such as the versper, ipad, nke etc. It is the connectivity between the various items that has me confused.
Jim

CRC1965
07-25-2015, 07:01 PM
Jim:
You are confused because it is quite complex (at least I found it so).

The vesper is a lovely unit because it has its own gps antenna and AIS antenna (unless you combine via a splitter your VHF...has its own pros/cons). It then puts out its own little wireless signal with GPS and AIS data. Simple to connect an IPAD (an INAVX) then you have a mobile MFD with AIS input, and GPS data (COG, SOG etc). My experience with VESPER has been highly positive..give it 12 volts and it works. Also, again, very responsive to email and helped teach me a lot about interconnecting devices.

Now as soon as you start talking about other instruments they have wired NMEA feeds (at least two different Baud rates and protocols exist). And interfacing multiple brands into a wireless hub can be a fun project or not depending on your interests.

This is a major reason why I went all NKE including their wireless hub (so I actually have two wireless hubs....the weight and electric demand is trivial). I was going to use just the VESPER wireless and that should/could work....but I didn't want to have different companies saying the problem was with the other. I connect to the wireless NKE feed via a tablet computer. Gives me some redundancy.

Oh, and keep in mind most instruments all have some sort of protocol for data transfer that is there own. This is really a thread of its own. I decided after some research to side step the issue and just go with one brand. But again, your interests should dictate your choice...but one can spend lots and lots and lots of time on electronics with no increase in boat speed. A lot of amazing young guys have gone with minimal instruments on Moore 24s and the like very fast to Hawaii.

BobJ
07-25-2015, 07:13 PM
Chris, did you get the XB-8000 we talked about or did you drop the big bucks for the Watchmate Vision? I'm thinking about a transponder, although I'll take so much grief from the SSS folks if I get one that it might not be worth it!

CRC1965
07-25-2015, 07:17 PM
I went with the very economical XB-8000 ;-)
This unit does also have a wired output that one can patch into your AIS enabled VHF, or to a chart-plotter as well.
Chris

BobJ
07-25-2015, 07:41 PM
Jim, I got up to five boats at one point but four of them were dinghies. You have that beat - don't you have a J/35 laying about as well?

We'd love to see Ryan in the race again but I think the big nut to crack is the return cost. I think that's why we've never been able to get the Minis involved. (If Hebert is lurking, he just ducked.)

jimb522
07-25-2015, 08:05 PM
Chris,
I have been feeling totally overwhelmed by the wi-fi issues in marine electronic gear. As best I can tell, the main difference between the XB000 and the Watchmate vision is the vision has its own display, has a combination ais/vhf antenna, which I aassume means you dont have to use either/or, and the vision transmits out, as well as receives, for basically another thousand bucks.?
Jim

jimb522
07-25-2015, 08:10 PM
Bob,
I still have the J35, which Tillotson-Pearson and Bob Johnstone modified for me for the 84 OSTAR. I also have the 73 (or so) NA champion 3/4 tonner,, a Mull 34 named Swampfire, which O. J. Young had built and sailed. It may have been the world champion 3/4 tonner too.
There are a few more non-race specific boats too. I'm probablly the poster child for OCD, and will never qualify as anyone's financial advisor in planning for retirement.
Jim

BobJ
07-25-2015, 08:33 PM
Fortunately old sailboats are good investments :rolleyes:

I think the Vision just adds its own display (so it's a stand-alone unit). Both are transponders and can be wireless hubs for your other gadgets. If I get one it will be the XB-8000.

CRC1965
07-25-2015, 09:12 PM
Bob:
New sailboats are good investments too!

Jim:
More than once I have been overwhelmed. Accept that you will make mistakes, stuff won't work as planned and better stuff will come along as soon as you buy stuff. At some point bite the bullet pick some and enjoy. Until you have some miles and hours on it you won't know what works best for you. Regarding antenna the Vesper Unit is big and heavy and "tuned" to both the AIS and VHF frequencies which are slightly different (some say that is not the case). I use a smaller antenna for my AIS and VHF through Vespers powered splitter. It works well (in initial testing) had some issues offshore but communications were great with ships VHF, and AIS out to 30 miles I am not sure what the issue is/was. I have a second emergency antenna, and could always take the splitter out and use two antennas. One on rear pulpit one on masthead. An approach is to put AIS on masthead/VHF on stern rail for offshore.....priority be seen by ship. Reverse when close to shore..

Chris

BobJ
07-25-2015, 09:57 PM
I totally agree about not obsessing over electronics. You need a solid autopilot w/spares (and electrical system to support it), an AIS receiver w/alarm, a means of long-distance communication (SSB or satphone) and a VHF. Weather downloads have hurt me more than helped me (a simple barometer tells you a lot). I sailed for most of my life without instruments. I did better (and had more fun) in the 2006 race with basic gear than in those since.

Gamayun
07-26-2015, 11:47 AM
IF i had a bigger boat I would go B&G and interface with one of their beautiful chartplotters at a NAV station...overlay radar etc.......


This is what I did. Well...plan to do soon. I have been collecting all the parts and pieces, now I am slowly getting the nerve up to put it all together. I'll post the learning process though I hope that does not include too many pleadings for help. I'll have to look into the Vesper Watchmate, too, but my VHF has AIS receive capability and spending any more big bucks is not high on the list right now.

Philpott
07-26-2015, 06:53 PM
This is what I did. Well...plan to do soon. I have been collecting all the parts and pieces, now I am slowly getting the nerve up to put it all together. I'll post the learning process

photos or video please. this oughta be good. If only you had video footage of Iron Mike "Oh that? That'll kill you" Jefferson while he helped you with your electronics.

Gamayun
07-26-2015, 10:20 PM
photos or video please. this oughta be good. If only you had video footage of Iron Mike "Oh that? That'll kill you" Jefferson while he helped you with your electronics.

Mike thinks I live a charmed life on the tippy edge of potential disaster. I tell him it's more fun that way ;)

He's also taught me the right way to splice wire like nobody's business....

BobJ
07-27-2015, 09:05 AM
Well there's no ONE right way:

1) Twist them together and stick a piece of tape over the joint - matching colors doesn't matter

2) Get a really long piece of wire (so you don't HAVE to splice it) and coil up the extra next to the panel (on really fancy yachts you could put a wire tie around the coil)

3) Move the thing you're wiring so the wire will reach

4) Get the brand that comes with the longest wires in the box

I got this boat wiring thing nailed!

pogen
07-27-2015, 11:15 AM
Seriously, if you are doing a lot of wiring work or instrument/power installations, it is worth it to buy one of these babies

http://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-marine--multi-die-ratcheting-crimper-kit--8956906

pogen
07-27-2015, 11:19 AM
Here's a question. I have a Brookhouse multiplexor to merge AIS and NEMA navigation data. The setup has never worked properly to get AIS data to my charplotter, which is a Lowrance, and not very good.

Now I have an iPad, and I just bought the iNavX navigation app and downloaded all my charts, and I'd like to get all this data onto WiFi. Also, I think even using the laptop might be easier, it would cut down on the number of cables.

Does anyone have experience with any of the Wifi-capable muxes? I'm thinking Shipmodule, Vesper, etc.

Gamayun
07-27-2015, 04:24 PM
Well there's no ONE right way:

1) Twist them together and stick a piece of tape over the joint - matching colors doesn't matter!

No shit. This is how I learned to do it, albeit from my mom, the circus performer, who actually was a pro fixing her trailer and making sure her rigging stayed connected when she was 50 feet off the ground ;)

BobJ
07-27-2015, 05:27 PM
Coming soon to the SSS Resources page: "The Scottish CPA's Guide to Cheap Boat Wiring." A few more tips from various chapters:

- Use extension cords as a source for wire. You already have a bunch of them and they come in the two most popular colors for boat interiors (white and brown). When the wire inside turns black it loses weight, and we all know light is fast.

- For wire colors, mix and match the colors from your favorite sports teams. When the Giants won last year I started using orange and black for everything. Then Chicken Shack closed so I had to substitute red for orange, but it works fine. On the port side red is positive; on the starboard side it's negative - I like symmetry (except in my spinnakers).

- Special tip for singlehanders: Don't waste valuable time labeling anything. You ran the wire - you know where it goes!

- Charge your batteries and turn everything on before starting your wiring project. It saves all those trips to the panel from the bowels of the boat, and when you get it right all the lights come on.

You're welcome.

______________

Pro tip from Phil: Do not, under any circumstances, do ANYTHING Bob suggests above.

jimb522
07-28-2015, 12:30 PM
Chris,
I had a preliminary discussion with Bob Congdon this morning, and in two hours I am going to have a more in depth discussion and start ordering parts. I've also decided to take your suggestion and get the Vesper AIS system if it is Both send and receive, or more specifically, Is the XB 8000 both send and receive? (A & B?)
Jim

mike cunningham
07-28-2015, 12:55 PM
Coming soon to the SSS Resources page: "The Scottish CPA's Guide to Cheap Boat Wiring." A few more tips from various chapters:

- Use extension cords as a source for wire. You already have a bunch of them and they come in the two most popular colors for boat interiors (white and brown). When the wire inside turns black it loses weight, and we all know light is fast.

- For wire colors, mix and match the colors from your favorite sports teams. When the Giants won last year I started using orange and black for everything. Then Chicken Shack closed so I had to substitute red for orange, but it works fine. On the port side red is positive; on the starboard side it's negative - I like symmetry (except in my spinnakers).

- Special tip for singlehanders: Don't waste valuable time labeling anything. You ran the wire - you know where it goes!

- Charge your batteries and turn everything on before starting your wiring project. It saves all those trips to the panel from the bowels of the boat, and when you get it right all the lights come on.

You're welcome.




Pro tip from Phil: Do not, under any circumstances, do ANYTHING Bob suggests above.


I knew there was someone aboard my boat the other day rummaging around my most recent AP install and stealing my proprietary wiring scheme. I am calling my attorney!!
______________

pogen
07-28-2015, 02:59 PM
Is the XB 8000 both send and receive? (A & B?)
Jim

Hi Guys ,

For AIS, Class A refers to high power systems used on commercial vessels. Class B is for lower transmission power systems typically installed in pleasure craft and maybe smaller fishing boats. Both A and B refer to transponders, which means send + receive. There are also various devices that are receive-only, but these are neither Class A or Class B. Class B devices also transmit less data, fewer times per minute, while from Class A vessels you can learn all sorts of things like their destination port, how long they are, etc etc.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_Identification_System

jimb522
07-28-2015, 03:47 PM
Pogen,
So my question then is simply, if you have a B class Vesper XB 8000, does the ship that you see on your screen, also have you on his screen?
Thanks,
Jim

pogen
07-28-2015, 05:11 PM
Pogen,
So my question then is simply, if you have a B class Vesper XB 8000, does the ship that you see on your screen, also have you on his screen?
Thanks,
Jim

Yes. Some AIS transponders have a switch or signal input to make them go into 'stealth mode' where you are receiving but not transmitting, but this is not the default.

Now I'm wishing I had spent a few more bucks a couple of years ago and gotten a WiFi one like that Vesper, that looks like a nice unit.


See also my new thread on VHF antenna testing, I am seeing if we can get some interest in a live test.

http://sfbaysss.org/forum/showthread.php?1516-VHF-radio-antenna-testing

jimb522
07-29-2015, 04:41 AM
Hey JimB can we get a picture of your boat? And do tell more about this race to Havana please.

Tchoupitoulas,
Attached is a picture taken in mid-August, 2013, of all that was visible from the surface of Lake Pontchartrain, a lake next to New Orleans (although with a username like yours I am sure you are aware of that). That was when I flipped the boat. The other picture was taken from the masthead
while sitting behind my house in a happier day.
I am within a month of going sailing, and am now talking to the NKE rep, Bob Congdon, about purchasing an autopilot. Kind of like putting the Trrump Mansion in the ninth ward.
Jim

jimb522
07-31-2015, 05:22 PM
Well, as Julius Caesar said, "Alea iacta est" or The die is cast. I ordered about half the NKE system today, so we could put in the parts calling for the most time consuming labor, and then get the rest of the parts in September in time for the Havana race. If all goes well, I will make the qualifying trip for the 2016 shtp from the dry tortugas to New Orleans in November, on my way back from Havana. OR, I could decide that the boat or myself is not up to the shtp. And then I will have the flashiest daysailor with the most sophisticated autopilot in the Gulf.
Chris, Bob Congdon told me the system is very similar to yours, other I would imagine then the changes made necessary by a rotating mast. He also said you were one of the most analytical customers he has had, which means to me that you did a lot of thinking this autopilot thing through, I kind of relied on that in rushing through this decision to get the NKE.
Jim

pogen
07-31-2015, 05:52 PM
"Alea iacta est"


or, "The credit card has been processed."

jimb522
07-31-2015, 06:28 PM
or, "The credit card has been processed."

Thats what I meant.
Jim

CRC1965
08-12-2015, 08:45 AM
Jim:
Have fun with it.....it sounds like your earlier questions have been answered. I have found with mast top antenna (can see and be seen at about 30 miles - by a large ship with their antennas presumably very high)....it could be hardly considered testing. Currently I use a splitter. BUT plan if I do the hawaii thing is to mount an antenna on stern rail (AIS mast, VHF stern for offshore.....reverse when closer)...this is not my idea...but one I picked up somewhere on the forums and seems like a good approach.

I would encourage you (if you can) to buy the rest of the NKE system.....or as early as you can. It is not like Raymarine stuff where you can walk into a local distributor and find it on the shelf. Bob/NKE have been very responsive but if something is backordered it might put your whole time line off......everything for me has worked of the shelf....but these are still electronics..and worse case you get a bad piece of electronics....delay....production in france.......delay.....and then you don't have time to really get used to the system. The earlier you can get it all installed and more time you can have with it the better.

jimb522
08-12-2015, 09:30 AM
Jim:
Have fun with it.....it sounds like your earlier questions have been answered. I have found with mast top antenna (can see and be seen at about 30 miles - by a large ship with their antennas presumably very high)....it could be hardly considered testing. Currently I use a splitter. BUT plan if I do the hawaii thing is to mount an antenna on stern rail (AIS mast, VHF stern for offshore.....reverse when closer)...this is not my idea...but one I picked up somewhere on the forums and seems like a good approach.

I would encourage you (if you can) to buy the rest of the NKE system.....or as early as you can. It is not like Raymarine stuff where you can walk into a local distributor and find it on the shelf. Bob/NKE have been very responsive but if something is backordered it might put your whole time line off......everything for me has worked of the shelf....but these are still electronics..and worse case you get a bad piece of electronics....delay....production in france.......delay.....and then you don't have time to really get used to the system. The earlier you can get it all installed and more time you can have with it the better.

chris
I expect that the complete system will be installed by around the middle of September. Bob has agreed to come down and check it out and give me instructions in its use. The drive arrived yesterday. The thing is massive. I could drive a 30 ton shrimp boat with this thing. The cylinder is 3 inches in diameter, and it is about 25 pounds I estimate for the pump/cylinder assembly. I think I am getting everything from NKE you could attach to it . at least my budget feels like I have. I had decided to do the same thing and have two AIS/vhf antennas on the boat. I think that came from you earlier.
Jim

CRC1965
08-12-2015, 01:57 PM
That's great. Bob spent a couple hours with me and that made a huge leap in my understanding. One of your early challenges is to learn the speed with which to press buttons....not too fast....not too long. Quickly becomes second nature. Yup...it could probably drive a shrimp boat and that strength is part of the safety margin ....BUT..keep in mind your attachment points need to be equally strong (weakest link issue.......in this years Long Pac...attachment point failure lead to loss of autopilot ability in one boat). Double antenna is NOT my idea (just one I borrowed from some smart person on this forum....I just can't remember which post to give credit to).

jimb522
09-02-2015, 04:14 AM
That's great. Bob spent a couple hours with me and that made a huge leap in my understanding. One of your early challenges is to learn the speed with which to press buttons....not too fast....not too long. Quickly becomes second nature. Yup...it could probably drive a shrimp boat and that strength is part of the safety margin ....BUT..keep in mind your attachment points need to be equally strong (weakest link issue.......in this years Long Pac...attachment point failure lead to loss of autopilot ability in one boat). Double antenna is NOT my idea (just one I borrowed from some smart person on this forum....I just can't remember which post to give credit to).

Chris,
In talking to Bob Congdon, he told me that that apparently practically no one works in France in August, including the NKE folks, so I took your advice and ordered the rest of the operating system, save the remotes and spare display. Turns out that the main display is not immediately available either, but the rest of the system order is being processed for delivery, and I will certainly have it soon. Bob is tentatively scheduled for coming in on Sept 30th and leaving three days later. We are busting our butts to get the boat sailing before he arrives so he can teach me how fast to push the buttons. And the rest of it. I sent off the entry to the Oct. 31st Havana race yesterday to apply pressure on myself to get this project finished. My main help, Ryan Finn, just got back from Seattle where he was looking at a Proa to buy. Apparently buying a new boat for a man must be something like raging hormones in an 18 year old on first love. Its hard to keep his mind on my project as he moons around thinking of his new love.
Jim
P.S. I kind of think the French have it right. Its way too hot here to be outside in August. Better to be on holiday.

jimb522
09-26-2015, 11:04 AM
The bad news, I had to withdraw from the Havana race. I simply couild not, and cannot get the boat ready to start in 4 weeks, without taking off and doing nothing for the next month but working on the boat, which is not a possibility as I have several cases set for trial in the month. The good news is the concentrated effort to get the boat ready for that race has given me a huge leap forward in boat prep, and we will actually be sailing in a couple of weeks, although the interior renovation will be just getting started. The mast is being stepped Monday and the boat is coming out of the boatyard. The other good news is that when I do get to the starting line, the boat will be tested, and candidly, it would not have been completed if I started the Havana race. There will be other Havana races.
Jim

jimb522
02-16-2016, 08:01 AM
Hi all,
An autopilot observation that may be of some interest. As I have said, I have an NKE autopilot for the Prodigal Son, which has all the bells and whistles. My wife's health has stopped all progress toward my finishing the installation and actually going sailing with it. BUT, Ryan Finn is currently sailing his Proa, the Jzerro, from Seattle through the Panama Canal to New Orleans. He has the identical (almost) autopilot as mind, and it is very interesting to look at his SPOT tracking. You could draw a line on his tracks as straight as a ruler. He has had some rough weather, and is making impressive daily runs. It was so wet down below, he couldn't write on his charts at times because they were so wet. Many many 200 mile days. Now he is off Honduras headed to the Yucatan straits . I am encouraged by his autopilot performance. I suggest you look at "two oceans, one rock" website to see it. He is basically engaged in an effort to take that boat from New York (next Chritsmas) around Cape Horn to San Francisco sailing singlehanded. He sailed non-stop from Seattle to the Panama Canal, over 3100 miles. Whatever his time is, if he completes that endeavor, will be a record, as no one has done it singlehanded. Anyway, the NKE apparently can really perform.
Jim