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bizirka
11-05-2015, 12:13 PM
I found some discussion but not a final answer in another forum - I do apologize if it has been asked/answered already.

Does the Delorme InReach Explorer satisfy the comm reqs - I personally think it does and would love to use it instead of renting a satphone.

Jiri

pogen
11-05-2015, 12:22 PM
The Delorme is being considered for use at the tracker device, either by rental from the Race Committee, or by using one's own, but this has not been finalized. Hopefully this will be done in a few weeks.

A satphone is nice to have to get weather info if nothing else.

I expect the final RRCs should have some requirement that in addition to the tracker and VHF, some means of obtaining offshore weather info be provided, either SSB, SSB receive-only, or satphone. This has been the case in the past.

An SSB receive only radio can be very cheap, like $100 new.

bizirka
11-05-2015, 12:26 PM
Thank you for the updated.

I completely agree that the SSB receive should be required if going the delorme route - I for one am getting both for xmas :cool:

Looking forward to hearing the final word.

tiger beetle
11-13-2015, 12:43 AM
I'm unaware that there was ever a requirement to be able to receive weather data while at sea. Can you point me to the rule that required this?



I expect the final RRCs should have some requirement that in addition to the tracker and VHF, some means of obtaining offshore weather info be provided, either SSB, SSB receive-only, or satphone. This has been the case in the past.

- rob/beetle

Harrier
11-13-2015, 08:39 AM
I'm with you Beetle. Can't imagine anyone going to sea without some means, tho. I went to French Polynesia and back thru HI with nothing but a shortwave rcvr, but it would pick up the SSB high seas weather broadcasts in the northern hemisphere, as it had BFO capability. Mostly I used AM weather from WWV. Never have figured out how to get wx via my sat fone. Was shown how once, but forgot before I was able to use it on the race.

brianb
11-13-2015, 09:16 AM
I found some discussion but not a final answer in another forum - I do apologize if it has been asked/answered already.

Does the Delorme InReach Explorer satisfy the comm reqs - I personally think it does and would love to use it instead of renting a satphone.

Jiri

Yes it does. To be precise we are still closing with the software provider and conducting a physical test of some features, but we are certain we will go with the Delorme/Pinnacle-Tracking solution. There will be a daily check in requirement that involves the pressing of two buttons on the Delorme SE or Explorer units. This will fire off a ping of your position and will result in an email to the RC. Alternative methods can also be used - SSB/VHF to the Comm boat for example. The Comm plan is still in preliminary form but will include a full description. The prelim. version and the rules will be posted within a few hours on the SHTP page.

Regards,

Brian

brianb
11-13-2015, 09:28 AM
I'm with you Beetle. Can't imagine anyone going to sea without some means, tho. I went to French Polynesia and back thru HI with nothing but a shortwave rcvr, but it would pick up the SSB high seas weather broadcasts in the northern hemisphere, as it had BFO capability. Mostly I used AM weather from WWV. Never have figured out how to get wx via my sat fone. Was shown how once, but forgot before I was able to use it on the race.

My first Pac Cup I copied the weather data via Morse code.

For 2016 we will have a requirement that some means be aboard for weather data. This could be SSB or satellite based. The SSB receiver will be suggested. At least that is the way we are leaning presently. The comm plan is still gel-ing.

pogen
11-13-2015, 10:00 AM
I might have mis-remembered about past SHTP rules, PacCup certainly had a "some means of wx" rule. One of the less burdensome rules, actually.

mike cunningham
11-18-2015, 05:14 PM
My first Pac Cup I copied the weather data via Morse code.

For 2016 we will have a requirement that some means be aboard for weather data. This could be SSB or satellite based. The SSB receiver will be suggested. At least that is the way we are leaning presently. The comm plan is still gel-ing.

Would the Lat/Lon specific 72 hr ocens forecasts provided upon request to delorme inreach units via e-mail be acceptable for "weather data". This would fit the "satellite based" category. This worked pretty well for me during the LongPac.

brianb
11-18-2015, 05:43 PM
Would the Lat/Lon specific 72 hr ocens forecasts provided upon request to delorme inreach units via e-mail be acceptable for "weather data". This would fit the "satellite based" category. This worked pretty well for me during the LongPac.

Hi Mike,

IS this a service you pay for ? The way to judge this is if the data they are sending you is not massaged by the provider, that is the weather info is no different than what one would obtain from NOAA wefax or public GRIB files then it is OK. If the provider is doing their own data interpretation than it would not be acceptable as it is now a custom forecast.

Regards,
Brian

pogen
11-18-2015, 11:14 PM
A rule of thumb widely applied is if you pay for it, it is not allowed, even if it is just repackaged NOAA data. They are still doing work for you preparing a targeted report, and saving you effort.

Saildocs works really well, is free, and covers pretty much all the NOAA products. You can also set up a subscription so that various reports and GRIBS are mailed to you every day or twice a day or whatever.

brianb
11-19-2015, 10:00 AM
I have sent a query to Ocens to see what they provide exactly. It appears that their data download is not massaged but that they provide applications for PC's/Macs that do weather display and massaging of the data. That would be no different than a program like Expedition or some types of GRIB viewers. I have asked for a specific explanation of the data as well as if they would have an interest in a fleet deal.

This is really a grey area. One could argue that requesting data from a specific region via an email service constitutes data massaging. Sailmail comes to mind, you pay for that after all.

I believe the Mini Transat limits weather data to what can only be copied off an SSB receiver. All the boats carry a small SSB rcvr and spend some time during the day getting weather information. Maybe someone on here has better insight into those requirements ?

Brian


A rule of thumb widely applied is if you pay for it, it is not allowed, even if it is just repackaged NOAA data. They are still doing work for you preparing a targeted report, and saving you effort.

Saildocs works really well, is free, and covers pretty much all the NOAA products. You can also set up a subscription so that various reports and GRIBS are mailed to you every day or twice a day or whatever.

bizirka
11-19-2015, 11:09 AM
http://www.ocens.com/SpotCast-Weather-P526C26.aspx#Description

It doesn't look as though there is any interpretation. I was planning on using this and a SSB receiver.

pogen
11-19-2015, 11:18 AM
The SailMail service is paid for as it provides internet connectivity and email hosting via SSB, but no data. This is the same as your basic satphone rental or DeLorme rental. So, not information, just a means for getting information.

SailDocs is a free service that can be accessed from SailMail or any other email means, and sends only NOAA data such as GRIBS and text forecasts. All this is allowable information.

For DeLorme, it is a mixed bag, there are a number of services available. SpotCast by OCENS on DeLorme seems to only provide the NWS data, localized to your present position as determined by the DeLorme itself.

http://www.ocens.com/SpotCast-Weather-P526.aspx

I would guess that this is probably OK. There are other services from DeLorme, like weather predictions from Forecast.io, which is a third-party provider, and a whole bunch of value-add products from OCENS that are almost certainly not OK.

As far as SSB wx goes, all the forecasts and weatherfaxes available are listed here,

http://weather.noaa.gov/fax/ptreyes.shtml

and there are a lot of text reports like this

http://weather.noaa.gov/pub/data/raw/fz/fzus56.kmtr.cwf.mtr.txt

And whether one gets the data via SSB ( 4 - 12 MHz technology ) or satellite ( 1.6 GHz technology) can be left up to the skipper.

mike cunningham
11-20-2015, 10:46 AM
http://www.ocens.com/SpotCast-Weather-P526C26.aspx#Description

It doesn't look as though there is any interpretation. I was planning on using this and a SSB receiver.

This is exactly the report I used for the Long Pac. I assumed it was permissible because it did not involve routing it simply provided conditions albeit localized conditions to some unknown extent.

We could probably start a lengthy legal debate re "paying" for services. Heck, I have to pay for the equipment to receive the broadcasts. Some competitors may be able to afford a much better rig than mine in order to reliably obtain broadcasts or other "freely available" data. So if you were to tell me everyone may only have specific equipment and obtain data from a specific place, while I don't like it, I accept it. Otherwise I think the general rule outlawing routing data or specially massaged helper data is, perhaps, the fairest way to go.

No way I am trying to start that lengthy debate!!

ronnie simpson
11-23-2015, 12:00 AM
At what point does the race committee and the participants begin to talk about amending the long-standing rules of not receiving any outside assistance? it seems that at the time that rule was written, it was very valid, though now it seems not so much...

When that rule was likely written, having a shore based router - let alone a way of communicating with that shore based router - would have been a distinctive advantage over the average Corinthian amateur, though very expensive. Disallowing outside assistance was a way to even the playing field.

Now, in the day and age of 2015, it's a distinct advantage - based on the rules of no outside assistance - to have a broadband receiver and dedicated computer running complex routing software such as Adrena or Expedition. If you don't have that equipment, you're at a clearly definable disadvantage. One way to even the playing field, from a weather and routing standpoint, would be to allow your homie to give you some advice over the (sat) phone, or via a text message to your Delorme FOR FREE. Technically, this would make outside assistance the very CHEAPEST way of receiving weather data. I can recall two Singlehanded Transpacs where I had little or no weather data at times, but had a functioning sat phone and had to resist every temptation to "cheat" and ask my friend for advice. I can't imagine everyone resists that urge, all the time, every time. When I was on the Moore 24, I was literally hand-steering blind with no weather data - probably not very safe - but had a working sat phone. That is stupid.

Commanders Weather will route you brilliantly to Hawaii for a couple of hundred bucks, and will package daily data and routing advice, based on your polars. Combine that expense with a sat phone or a Delorme and professional shore-based routers are now cheaper (and arguably infinitely better) than any old school solution such as an SSB. I'm sure someone could make the argument that someone could up the game and get Marcel van Triest or Stan Honey to route them from shore at great personal expense, but honestly, if that's the make-or-break in the whole equation, you should be record-setting in maxi-trimaran's, not racing solo to Hawaii in 40-year old production monohulls.

Let's stop kidding ourselves that we're avoiding an arms race within the SHTP by disallowing outside support and discouraging (through monetary fee) outside sponsorship, local industry support, etc.

Just my 2 cents

jimb522
11-23-2015, 04:57 AM
I agree with Ronnie. I distinctly remember when Loran A became available in the 70's for yacht racers. It for the first time took yacht navigation to a different level. Prior to that, yacht racing navigation was 99 percent dead reckoning and ADF, with celestial navigation really only being used in races across the gulf of mexico to an island near cancun. Finding a shamen or witch doctor who could do celestial was difficult, and I learned enough of it to do it from the then equivalent of "celestial navigation for dummies" written by Mary Blewitt. Electronic navigation, with its precise accuracy, has certainly leveled the playing field, because we all know where we are now, safely, reliably and accurately, to an extent unimaginable not that long ago. I cant imagine flying my airplane without GPS, or sailing my boat without it. In the beginning, it was very expensive, and a lot of us could not afford it. Personally, I was against its use, as I felt, (and still do) that its use takes away from an essential sailor's skill that should be preserved, and for many years special trophies were given for racers who only used celestial. Not so much now.
My point is technology and time change reality. Todays reality is that we have equipment available to all, and it clearly makes far safer landfalls, and is overall a much safer environment when we all know exactly where we are. I think we should be able to use a service like iridium go, predict wind, which provides a program for optimal departure, and a routing program that gives you a fastest and most comfortable option for routing. This is a safety factor also (comfort means less heavy weather from the wrong direction in this case). It seems to me that some routing should be permitted. The iridium system gives you the same thing that expedition does as I understand it, but would be illegal now, i.e., grib files with current that it runs through a model and then sends out to subscribers. It basically gives you (I think) what grib files with expedition gives you, an optimal route for the predicted conditions. I am very much opposed to a system where we allow Stan Honey, or whoever, to direct or advise us, as it somehow seems that it isnt a single-handed race anymore. It becomes kind of like singlehanded, with a virtual crewmember, without having to feed him (except with money?) To summarize, I am for allowing digitizd weather and routing avialable by subscription to all, which is formulated by algorithims (sp?) as opposed to the same information which is then interpreted by a guru who may not be available to all.
Jim

BobJ
11-23-2015, 10:22 AM
In response to Ronnie and Jim (sorry Jiri), there's a big difference between the skipper receiving weather information (he then has to interpret) and the skipper receiving routing advice: "When you reach <lat> <lon> turn 10 degrees to port." The skipper's ability to interpret the weather is the big variable in a solo Hawaii race. If you cheat and call someone for routing advice during the race you're a cheater and might as well stay home.

If the DeLorme gadget will be required and it supplies NOAA data in some other form, it seems that receiving that data should be okay since everyone is receiving the same thing - just add it to the list of acceptable data. That's still different from calling Stan during the race and asking him when you should turn south. (From what I know of Stan he won't tell you anyway.)

We paid the big bucks before last year's Pacific Cup and bought a routing package from "one of the best." Because of rapid changes in the forecast right after the start, it was worse than useless. I did wonder how some of our competitors appeared to know about the changes so quickly, and we didn't.

bizirka
11-23-2015, 10:48 AM
Perhaps this isn't necessary - but, to be clear I started this thread to find the most affordable way (trying to avoid satphone/SSB) to stay within the rules NOT get around them.

I was hoping that the standard 'transat mini issued' SSB receiver (by the way is there anything better than the 10+ year old Sony ICF-SW7600GR) would satisfy the weather receiving portion of the rule and the delorme would satisfy the the position reporting and act as a backup for receiving weather.

Perhaps I am not following correctly, but I gather that the delorme weather provides a 'single grib' at a specific location (either current or a selected lat/lon).

I appreciate peoples expertise here!

pogen
11-23-2015, 11:30 AM
Let's stop kidding ourselves that we're avoiding an arms race within the SHTP by disallowing outside support and discouraging (through monetary fee) outside sponsorship, local industry support, etc.

Just my 2 cents

Well, don't look to see shoreside services like Commander's to be allowed. I think the DeLorme/Spotcast is probably fair game, as it is just providing a snapshot from an NWS forecast.

I also don't at all understand how we are "discouraging.. sponsors" with a fee. The whole point of sponsors is they contribute financially, or in kind, or else they are not sponsors.

DaveH
11-23-2015, 02:08 PM
Perhaps this isn't necessary - but, to be clear I started this thread to find the most affordable way (trying to avoid satphone/SSB) to stay within the rules NOT get around them.

I was hoping that the standard 'transat mini issued' SSB receiver (by the way is there anything better than the 10+ year old Sony ICF-SW7600GR) would satisfy the weather receiving portion of the rule and the delorme would satisfy the the position reporting and act as a backup for receiving weather.

Perhaps I am not following correctly, but I gather that the delorme weather provides a 'single grib' at a specific location (either current or a selected lat/lon).

I appreciate peoples expertise here!

Jiri - FWIW I think that either or both satisfy the requirement...
I believe the Delorme simply draws a square grib snapshot around it's present location.

ronnie simpson
11-23-2015, 05:49 PM
I also don't at all understand how we are "discouraging.. sponsors" with a fee. The whole point of sponsors is they contribute financially, or in kind, or else they are not sponsors.

By charging double entry fee to sponsored entrants. In both SHTP's I did, I was forced to pay significantly more money to enter the race than "non-sponsored", i.e. "Corinthian" entries. Sponsorship was defined as running a sponsor's logo on your boat. The rule was supposedly created to deter the "big French pro guys" from taking over our race. All it did in my case was create a financial burden for a young kid with no money who already needed industry help to do the race in the first place. Sort of like having a working sat phone on my Moore yet no weather data, it seemed sort of silly and counter-productive.

If the race got rid of any financial penalty to run a sponsor's logo, then that would probably increase the likelihood of local marine businesses offering discounts to SHTP racers or doing "soft sponsorship" with decals and representation in exchange for donated materials, discounts or financial support. I can only imagine abandoning any restrictions on "sponsored" entries would save several participants a grip of money and likely engage the race with the local marine industry. sounds like a win-win to me.

again, just my 2 cents, sorry to get so far off topic.

ronnie simpson
11-23-2015, 06:07 PM
there's a big difference between the skipper receiving weather information (he then has to interpret) and the skipper receiving routing advice: "When you reach <lat> <lon> turn 10 degrees to port."

If the DeLorme gadget will be required and it supplies NOAA data in some other form, it seems that receiving that data should be okay since everyone is receiving the same thing - just add it to the list of acceptable data.




No doubt Bob, I agree with you 100%. However, in the eyes of the rules as they are written, there is no difference in receiving this info vs. receiving the routing, unless it's coming from some type of paid service. (Sail Mail, the Delorme grib thing, downloading gribs with expensive data, etc) Currently, that is "outside assistance".

Later in your quote, you mention "adding it to the list of acceptable data".

So, could the rules not be amended to allow a friend to basically read gribs to you and relay to an SHTP competitor via text on their Delorme? This creates a grey area, but it's already a sport on the honor code... If someone really wants to cheat in a boat race, well, Donald Crowhurst.

Would it be allowable for a friend to tell a competitor, "the high is forming, 1030 mb, centered at xxxN xxxW, trades looking 15-20 knots between 1018 and 1022 mb" or something like that? Essentially reading a grib to a friend FOR FREE, and being on the honor code to not tell them how to sail?

How do we strike the right compromise of making the weather as EASY AS POSSIBLE to get into the hands of ALL participants, even those on basic boats like the guy who started the thread and only has an SSB receiver and a Delorme? Coincidentally, this was my same set up on way from CA to New Zealand last year and will be my set up from SF to Hawaii next week. In this modern day and age, being able to receive weather data over simple SMS text changes the game entirely. This is all I am really arguing is to update, or at least clarify, the rules to allow modern tech to be used to bring everyone back on the same playing field. When I cruise or do deliveries and am not confined to rules, the easiest, most practical way for me - by far - to get data is just to take my Delorme or sat phone and communicate with someone on land. Perhaps we change the rules to allow this, just no explicit routing?

Is the goal to be self sufficient in this race and stick to tradition, or is the goal to use the resources that are reasonably available to the most participants in hopes that everyone gets there safe?

pogen
11-23-2015, 06:12 PM
Hi Ronnie,

Per the RRCs (http://sfbaysss.org/resource/shtp2016/2016RRC_Final_111315.pdf), the additional fee for sponsored entries is $400. I guess the presumption is that a sponsored entry would receive a lot more than that from one or more sponsors. An entrant would only have to pay this fee once, I think, no mater how many sponsors or stickers one might wish to put on the boat, so that if you had 10 sponsors at $200 each you would still be well ahead.

It's true that this is mostly a historical artifact. I don't think PacCup charges more for sponsored entries. They seem to have at least two entered for 2016 so far. In our race the sponsored entries are few and far between.

When I did PacCup I proposed to my boss, the president of the company I was working for, that if the company bought me a new spinnaker I would put the company logo on it. He laughed.

BobJ
11-23-2015, 07:28 PM
Is the goal to be self sufficient in this race and stick to tradition, or is the goal to use the resources that are reasonably available to the most participants in hopes that everyone gets there safe?

I think your questions are rhetorical, especially the last one.

mike cunningham
11-23-2015, 10:40 PM
[QUOTE=bizirka;12893]Perhaps this isn't necessary - but, to be clear I started this thread to find the most affordable way (trying to avoid satphone/SSB) to stay within the rules NOT get around them.

I was hoping that the standard 'transat mini issued' SSB receiver (by the way is there anything better than the 10+ year old Sony ICF-SW7600GR) would satisfy the weather receiving portion of the rule and the delorme would satisfy the the position reporting and act as a backup for receiving weather.

Perhaps I am not following correctly, but I gather that the delorme weather provides a 'single grib' at a specific location (either current or a selected lat/lon).

I appreciate peoples expertise here![/QUOTE

That is about right however OCENS provides a 24, 48 or 72 hr location based forecast. You pay a couple bucks more for the extended forecasts. Send OCENS a query from the Inreach and you get a response within a few minutes. It was pretty cool. Pretty accurate too, that 30Kts came in right on schedule.

The "Delorme weather" in this context is simply a compact e-mailed forecast from OCENS.

BTW, Inreach is equipped with wireless (explorer is anyway) and an app which can be loaded on the tablet/phone (droid or i). Then you can tap out messages on the tablet and avoid the utterly useless data entry screen on the inreach.

solosailor
11-24-2015, 08:32 AM
One way to even the playing field, from a weather and routing standpoint, would be to allow your homie to give you some advice over the (sat) phone, or via a text message to your Delorme FOR FREE. Technically, this would make outside assistance the very CHEAPEST way of receiving weather data. I can recall two Singlehanded Transpacs where I had little or no weather data at times, but had a functioning sat phone and had to resist every temptation to "cheat" and ask my friend for advice. I can't imagine everyone resists that urge, all the time, every time. When I was on the Moore 24, I was literally hand-steering blind with no weather data - probably not very safe - but had a working sat phone. That is stupid.Horrible idea.


Commanders Weather will route you brilliantly to Hawaii for a couple of hundred bucks, and will package daily data and routing advice, based on your polars.Talk about an arms race...... how many boats actually have polars for this race? 1 out of 10? How many have accurate polar and Expedition and know how to use it?


Combine that expense with a sat phone or a Delorme and professional shore-based routers are now cheaper (and arguably infinitely better) than any old school solution such as an SSB.This is a singlehanded race that you do singlehanded, by yourself, without any outside assistance. Now we need to hire shoreside routers? Talk about an arms race.


Let's stop kidding ourselves that we're avoiding an arms race within the SHTP by disallowing outside support and discouraging (through monetary fee) outside sponsorship, local industry support, etc.I don't think we are kidding ourselves and the formula has worked for decades.

solosailor
11-24-2015, 09:03 AM
By charging double entry fee to sponsored entrants. In both SHTP's I did, I was forced to pay significantly more money to enter the race than "non-sponsored", i.e. "Corinthian" entries."Forced", nice. No one forced you to get sponsorship.


All it did in my case was create a financial burden for a young kid with no money who already needed industry help to do the race in the first place. Create a financial burden? Really? Nearly everyone who has ever done this race did it on their own dime and for most it was a great financial burden..... you know, they went to work and earned it, spent it. I think your going to rub a lot of people the wrong way who worked and saved to do the race. Only a handful of people have ever used sponsorship and all this talk is really a non-issue.

"Needed industry help to do the race"? Sorry, no you didn't.

solosailor
11-24-2015, 09:07 AM
Would it be allowable for a friend to tell a competitor, "the high is forming, 1030 mb, centered at xxxN xxxW, trades looking 15-20 knots between 1018 and 1022 mb" or something like that? Essentially reading a grib to a friend FOR FREE, and being on the honor code to not tell them how to sail?Really, this is the vision you have for the SHTP? Call your shoreside router for the rundown? The minis don't have sophisticated weather maps, routing, etc. and is considered the pinnacle of "pure" singlehanded sailing. I'm not aware of any major offshore race that allows outside routing?

Daydreamer
11-24-2015, 09:27 AM
If anyone is considering purchasing a Delorme Inreach, now is good time.

Delorme is offering a rebate, Defender had good pricing, and Active Captain has a coupon code for an additional discount.
I ordered the Explorer.

http://www.defender.com/activecaptain.jsp

I am not affiliated with either company.

ronnie simpson
11-24-2015, 11:55 AM
Really, this is the vision you have for the SHTP? Call your shoreside router for the rundown? The minis don't have sophisticated weather maps, routing, etc. and is considered the pinnacle of "pure" singlehanded sailing. I'm not aware of any major offshore race that allows outside routing?

The Mini fleet also gets location specific weather data relayed to them BY THE RACE COMMITTEE

ronnie simpson
11-24-2015, 12:06 PM
"Forced", nice. No one forced you to get sponsorship.

Create a financial burden? Really? Nearly everyone who has ever done this race did it on their own dime and for most it was a great financial burden..... you know, they went to work and earned it, spent it. I think your going to rub a lot of people the wrong way who worked and saved to do the race. Only a handful of people have ever used sponsorship and all this talk is really a non-issue.

"Needed industry help to do the race"? Sorry, no you didn't.

So the people who "went to work, earned it, spent it", i.e. - Corinthian sailors with day jobs, i.e. - people who likely DON'T have industry connections, wholesale accounts, etc, (and are probably paying retail) wouldn't want to save money on doing the race? I bet if you took a poll, they would want to save money on race-related expenses, if possible. By removing any financial penalty to receive sponsorship, I am pretty confident that local marine businesses would at least offer reasonable discounts to participants who ran a decal on their boat in exchange. That's all I was advocating. 10% off of a 20 grand tab is 2 grand. The average bug lighter claims to spend 20k to do the race.

and Greg, I didn't really ask for your inflammatory personal attacks, but yes i did need industry help to do the race. a generous individual loaned me a boat and lined up a sponsor for the 2010 race, based on reading an article about me. I had a loaned boat that I couldn't afford to campaign and no money, yet was lined up with a sponsor and entered in the race. I lived on that boat before the race. So yeah, I sorta did need industry help and in many ways was forced to find sponsorship. Same in 2012, I eventually had to sell my live aboard the week before the race to pay for the life raft.

solosailor
11-24-2015, 12:09 PM
I apologize if you feel it was a personal attack.

ronnie simpson
11-24-2015, 12:11 PM
Talk about an arms race...... how many boats actually have polars for this race? 1 out of 10? How many have accurate polar and Expedition and know how to use it?



Says the guy who has well-defined polars and is well versed in Expedition.

solosailor
11-24-2015, 12:13 PM
The Mini fleet also gets location specific weather data relayed to them BY THE RACE COMMITTEENow that a good idea as fair distribution of weather information goes...... Since that device is likely to be used as the fleet tracker it would be fair to allow NOAA weather to come through this route.

ronnie simpson
11-24-2015, 12:14 PM
I mean no disrespect to you Greg. This is a public forum about a sailboat race. I'm just spitballing here and tossing around ideas that may help. Maybe they won't. Just engaging in the conversation, since a thread was started about using a Delorme to satisfy the race requirements

solosailor
11-24-2015, 12:23 PM
Says the guy who has well-defined polars and is well versed in Expedition.Certainly have used polors on some crewed offshore boats but never have use then on any of mine, didn't and don't have any. Don't personally own Expedition or any routing software, use weather charts or GRIBS to manually make routing choices with the aid of a laptop or iPad. I have and would pay a shore router for a synopsis before a Hawaii or Mexico race, that does run about $100.

solosailor
11-24-2015, 12:26 PM
I'm liking the Delorme as a baseline that everyone gets and love the price point but the ability to still download NOAA GRIBS, weather fax, should still be allowed for onboard use. Those have been allowed for a long time.

pogen
11-24-2015, 12:43 PM
I have polars and a routing program.

The problem is, I can't really sail to either.

Comms plan will be released real soon now, should hopefully resolve these issues, and let people lock down the gear they plan to get and install.

pogen
11-24-2015, 12:51 PM
A note on DeLorme wx: as I understand it, you have to pay an additional fee to get the weather reports. But the data is just NWS point forecasts. This ability will not be provided by the DeLorme trackers as provided by the RC. If you have a satphone, you do not need to pay for DeLorme/OCENS weather, as it is redundant. I don't think there is a way to get GRIBs or any graphic wx data using only the DeLorme.

bizirka
11-24-2015, 02:33 PM
A note on DeLorme wx: as I understand it, you have to pay an additional fee to get the weather reports. But the data is just NWS point forecasts. This ability will not be provided by the DeLorme trackers as provided by the RC. If you have a satphone, you do not need to pay for DeLorme/OCENS weather, as it is redundant. I don't think there is a way to get GRIBs or any graphic wx data using only the DeLorme.

This is why I plan to buy my own and pair it with a SSB receiver :) I am excited for the comm plans to come out.