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BobJ
11-17-2015, 11:49 AM
Following up on some previous "remembering" posts in Skip's thread, I was distressed to see this:

Alameda Marina Master Plan (http://www.ehdd.com/work/alameda-marina-master-plan)

The property is now owned by a developer in San Francisco (Bay West Development).

Having patronized many of the Alameda Marina businesses over the years, I wonder where they will go - also Island Yacht Club. Depending on which of these drawings you look at, the boat yard may still be there (it's not in the drawing with the arrows). Crackerboxes can be thrown up easily but boat yards on San Francisco Bay are irreplaceable.

If you want more information, there's a meeting Wednesday night (11/18) at 7:00 p.m. at IYC.

JohnS
11-17-2015, 02:34 PM
Well, that's depressing. I knew it was only a matter of time but...

AlanH
11-17-2015, 05:05 PM
Following up on some previous "remembering" posts, I was distressed to see this:

Alameda Marina Master Plan (http://www.ehdd.com/work/alameda-marina-master-plan)

The property is now owned by a developer in San Francisco (Bay West Development).

Having patronized many of the Alameda Marina businesses over the years, I wonder where they will go - also Island Yacht Club. Depending on which of these drawings you look at, the boat yard may still be there (it's not in the drawing with the arrows). Crackerboxes can be thrown up easily but boat yards on San Francisco Bay are irreplaceable.

If you want more information, there's a meeting Wednesday night (11/18) at 7:00 p.m. at IYC.

WHAT??????????????

When was this conceived? I had no idea. None. Zero. Zilch.

BobJ
11-17-2015, 05:28 PM
From what I can tell, something was filed all the way back in 2012. Perhaps with Svend's passing earlier this year it got moved to the front burner?

AlanH
11-17-2015, 06:06 PM
From what I can tell, something was filed all the way back in 2012. Perhaps with Svend's passing earlier this year it got moved to the front burner?

I was just down there this weekend, for obvious reasons. I have to say that the % occupancy of the <30 foot berths is pretty grim. Also, there are fewer boats in the dry storage areas than there were, say 10 years ago. However, the place is hardly moribund.

I suppose the developers figure they can make a mint selling condos and townhomes...which is probably true.

I hate to be self-centered about this, but I just looked. The Brickyard Cove "big" hoist takes 4400 pounds, which covers my butt... but not by a whole lot, and I think the yard is pretty full. I forsee an F-150 pickup in my future. UGH.

If Svendsens goes there is literally no other place to buy gear but West Marine....and online.

sleddog
11-17-2015, 06:28 PM
Alan,
Congrats on your new boat!!! We are all happy for you. Hoping for a pronounceable name:rolleyes:
I have a 2000 Ford Expedition that would pull your new vessel with ease...I'd be glad to loan, share, rent, or sell depending on needs.
~sleddog

AlanH
11-17-2015, 06:46 PM
Thanks, Skip!

See, the deal with Joan was to buy a BOAT....not a boat and a truck. Ah, well. It will probably be at least a year before anything even starts to happen at Alameda Marina. I will deal with it, then. The Brickyard Cove hoist can handle this thing, in any case.

BTW, the Ideal 18's are fun boats. They'd be very tactical to race, sort of like a more modern Mercury. I sailed one for most of an afternoon about 4-5 years ago on a trip to Michigan.

solosailor
11-18-2015, 09:03 AM
The Brickyard Cove "big" hoist takes 4400 poundsI thought it was a 3ton? I know of a boat that launches there that is over 4400. If it's not 3 ton then my boat can only be wet sailed in the future.

BobJ
11-18-2015, 09:27 AM
It's rated as a 3-ton but they limit it to 4,400#. They're also rigid about beam - yours and mine are too wide to store in the parking area (that boat you're thinking about is right at the weight limit and lives at his shop). It's a much busier hoist than what you're used to and maneuvering is difficult on that pier. The good side is they have tractors so once the boat is there you could get along without a tow vehicle.

I think this is a business opportunity for someone. Do-it-yourself dry-sailing is a great deal (I did it for 3-4 years). But a 2-ton hoist isn't enough. We need to find space that's nowhere near getting gentrified (I've wondered about the Richmond channel area), buy a couple of three-ton hoists and set it up. Single-point lift only (slings are too dangerous for self-use by tipsy racers). Probably one paid operator to keep things running smoothly and organize the race-day chaos. Mega legal releases, insurance, etc.

solosailor
11-18-2015, 09:46 AM
(that boat you're thinking about is right at the weight limit and lives at his shop)Not that one.

solosailor
11-18-2015, 09:48 AM
They're also rigid about beam - yours and mine are too wide to store in the parking areaWow, so not a single dry storage option for me in the future..... :(

BobJ
11-18-2015, 10:11 AM
Go tonight and state your case. Maybe they'll change out one of the smaller hoists near the harbormaster's office and provide more storage area. If they got rid of all the RV's (which have many other storage options) they might be able to accommodate just the boats.

One of the reasons I put my boat back in the water was the no-options concern. A couple times the big hoist was acting up and I almost missed races.

AlanH
11-18-2015, 12:27 PM
I actually looked into what a 3-ton, freestanding, 180-degree turning jib crane costs and the answer is about $5-6K. Then you add in the actual hoist, 3-ton, electric, three phase (420 volt) with a 20 foot drop which is about $4200. Of course you have to buy a mess of big bolts and some steel bar to anchor the thing in a substantial concrete foundation. Now throw in about $1,000 shipping.

I guesstimate that the all-up cost of all the "stuff" to put in a freestanding, functional 3 ton boat hoist is about $12,000 +/- " a lot". Then you have to pay to get it certified by the County, and I have no idea what that costs.

That's a lot of money but it's not a completely stupid and ridiculous amount of money. It's possible that another Marina would consider doing it if they knew for drop-dead certain that they'd have 20 boats paying $100 a month for dry storage and access to the hoist.

20 boats X $100/month X 12 months = $24,000

So the hoist would pay for itself in about 6 months. If you figure that it costs $10K in labor to put the thing in, and paying for the permits with the City and County, then in a year, it would be making a profit.

Of course there's maintenance. The thing to do is to get a 180 degree hoist, based on a "wall hoist" model, but mounted on a free mast. If the arm is manually moved by a winch and cable you don't have to deal with the extremely expensive and finicky electric motors and conducting surfaces that the Alameda 2 and 3 ton hoists have.

I think the issue would be finding a more-or-less Central Bay marina with the parking and storage space available. Municipal Marinas have to deal with so much bureuocracy that it's probably not worth it. That means private marinas' I had in mind Ballena Bay, because they actually do have a parking area that would probably hold 100 boats and trailers, but I hear that the marina is kind of a dump, now.

AlanH
11-18-2015, 12:32 PM
The other thing that occurred to me was that maybe the City of Alameda would go for putting in a hoist somewhere on Alameda Point...maybe near the Encinal boat ramp. There's acres and acres of parking there, already. BTW, the Encinal Boat ramp is over by the Hornet. There used to be another boat ramp over there and some slips, maybe about 20. Satellite views show that there's still a floating dock, but it's not connected to the land by a ramp any more.

Also, the developer might be convinced that it's worth his while ... and $20,000.... to put in a big hoist somewhere nearby to get the boaters off his back.

pogen
11-18-2015, 12:50 PM
The new owners of the condos they are likely to build are probably going to want more parking spaces for their own cars than boat parking. Or just throw up a few more condos and go with the zone legal minimum of spaces per sq ft of residential space...

BobJ
11-18-2015, 12:59 PM
Yes, developers beg and plead for the absolute minimum parking spaces the city will allow, then they build tiny ones.

I'm pretty serious about this self-use hoist business idea. It keeps sailing (more) affordable, it's green (no bottom paint, diver cleanings, etc.) and it targets the size of boats we tend to have. The 2-ton hoist market is served pretty well around here; the need is for one notch up from that, but still self-use.

Let's keep talking about it.

AlanH
11-19-2015, 12:38 AM
COPIED from Pressure Drop:

Hi, there were two meetings today at the Marina. I went to the Community meeting this evening, but heard from two tenants of the marina about how the noontime "tenants" meeting went. Both of the business tenants said that the community meeting was quite "friendly" whereas the business tenants met with the actual president of the development company. Word from the two guys I talked to was that the developer told them he's coming in with cranes, wrecking balls and bulldozers in 18-24 months and they all have to be out.

So worst case, there's the timeline.

He apparently told everybody that he had no choice, the City zoning specified that the site HAD to be "mixed use" housing. Apparently the tenor of the meeting....and remember, I wasn't there, I'm just passing this on secondhand....was along the lines of "I own the place, I'm flattening it, I don't have a choice, get the fuck out." More about zoning later.

The "Community Meeting" at 7:00 was very different. A panel from the development company plus a woman who served as "moderator"....probably works for the company... tried to make the point that this was the very first discussion about what the community wanted. There was a lot of talk about "waterfront access", the Bay Trail, parking and public transit, and laughably... "honoring the heritage of the site". They then went on to present us all with a series of photographs/powerpoint slides of the proposed site layout.

I want to be crystal-clear about this. There is NO provision. None. Zero for any marine industry on the site. OK, maybe a kayak retailer. MAYBE...maybe...a sail loft. Maybe. But dry storage? No. Metalwork? No. Hoists? No. Haulout facilities of any kind? No. The picture on their website was not presented to us. I REPEAT, the site layouts shown us had NO marine industry on the site, it was entirely housing and "mixed retail".


It's clear that they want to save the boat slips because they're picturesque. They will probably upgrade them.

The team presented us with four or five 'optional" layouts of the site to choose from. I think I can say without exaggeration that I and everybody else was shocked. All of the layouts differed only in where the "townhouses" were placed (around the inlet by the 3 ton hoist) and where the high-density apartments were placed. --Or was it single-family homes? It's ALL going to be housing. The streets that come down to Blanding will be extended into the boatyard with little welcoming arches over them so that the community feels welcome. There will be little 40 x 40 mini-parks between the condo clusters that qualify as "open space". The Bay Trail will be extended through the area.....never mind that it stops dead at the south end of the facility because the Naval Reserve site is there.

That's their vision. Their questionnaire "did we strongly agree, slightly agree, strongly disagree...etc. etc" with the various pictures they put up showed a massive, fundamental disconnect between the academic "urban planner" mindset, and actual reality. I think you all would be horrified if you saw what they were proposing. In all cases at least 75-80% of the attending people "Strongly Disagreed" with the appropriateness of ALL the housing pictures they showed us. ALL of them. Without fail.

A lot of local people spoke out about traffic issues. It was pointed out that 5,000 more homes were going in at Alameda Point. There are other developments going on as well. I hear that traffic in the Posey Tube is absolutely insane for a two-plus hour period during every rush hour.

At any rate, two things became obvious:

1. the developing companies "team" that came to the community meeting is the velvet glove around the iron hand. They were there to acquaint people with what they believe WILL go in, and to make us feel that the community has a hand in the decision process. We don't, but they want to make us feel like that. Well...that's their job. I think they failed.

2. There's a serious, enormous, grossly obvious disconnect between the developers staff and their "vision" of practically everything, and what the community and marina people at the meeting want to see. One look at the urban planning buzzword orgy on the developers website should show that.

Finally... what to do about it?

AlanH
11-19-2015, 12:38 AM
Finally... what to do about it?

What's apparently driving the housing issue is zoning. In 2012 the whole north shore of Alameda and Alameda Point was rezoned for "mixed use housing". You can't have "light industry"...meaning boatyards and metalworking shops in "Mixed use housing". At least, that's what we were told. You CAN have "light retail"...starbucks, for example. And a couple of tony waterfront restaurants.

Well, the developer has only one thing on his mind....Make Money. He can make money by razing all of the Alameda Marina and replacing it with "mixed use housing" and "light retail". What's driving this is zoning. ZONING.

The former vice-mayor of the City of Alameda was there. He pointed out that the PR committee for the development company had quietly neglected to tell us that SOME of the property at the Alameda Marina is actually OWNED BY THE CITY. He also pointed out to all of us that Zoning laws and regulations are not handed down by Zeus from the mountaintop. They can be changed. So it became obvious that the way to get this stopped is not to go to the developer, but instead, go to the Planning Commission, Planning office and City Council for the City of Alameda.

The developer could give a shit about the Marina or the place it occupies in the boating community. He's there to Make Money. He will Make A Shitload Of Money if he replaces the admittedly funky Alameda Marina with another cookie-cutter set of apartments and townhomes planned by some architecture wonks. However, he can make a slightly Smaller Shitload of Money by doing a big redesign of the Marina, consolidating but not removing services, kicking out the RV storage and adding some buildings.

But he's not going to do that UNLESS THE ZONING FORCES HIM TO.

So friends, if you don't want to see the Alameda Marina bite the dust, you need to tell the City of Alameda what you think...loudly, and often. And RIGHT NOW. Apathy, giving up and rolling over will get you nothing but a townhouse development that you can't afford to buy into.

Alan

AlanH
11-19-2015, 12:48 AM
The guys from the development company appeared to be somewhat taken aback by the intensity of the objections, but I'm cynical and I suspect it was all an act. The woman who served as moderator did her job well...kudos to her for moderating the meeting, but it's obvious that she's employed by the development company. She too, could give a shit about the marina or its services.

I think that they accidentally let slip that zoning was driving the process to be specifically ALL housing. Then again, that might have been an act. Whether it's an act or not, the truth is that if the City changes the zoning....which they might not be able to do, the Developer might sue the City if they do that....but if they do it, then the Way To Make Shitloads Of Money would change, and that's what we want.

AlanH
11-19-2015, 12:54 AM
There is a POSSIBILITY....the woman from the company brought it up with me several times .. that maybe a bunch of the services that the Alameda Marina offers could be moved elsewhere.

She's clueless of course, it's just her "company line" she has NO idea what she's talking about...no clue what's required, and completely ignoring the permitting process....

But it HAS occurred to me that a "Hoist and Store" business at Alameda Point might work. There would have to be a contract with the City, and a long-term lease, and those aren't so easy to pull off. You'd also have to get permits from the BCDC to fill part of the shoreline to make a seawall appropriate for a hoist launch, at least in the area I'm thinking of.

DaveH
11-19-2015, 08:39 AM
Ya know, it occurs to me there is a nearby space, owned by the City of Alameda [or at least the Alameda Point Development Authority].
It even has a travel lift equipped pier.

Now, admittedly, the city liquidated Nelsons old travelift to satisfy the back rent, and there is little other infrastructure in the seaplane lagoon, but zoning wise it is likely to stay light industrial for sometime to come, and is emphatically NOT in the path of the 5000 planned units on the point.

Top of mind, since my office looks right across the lagoon at the empty building and yard...

DH

BobJ
11-19-2015, 10:18 AM
I agree Seaplane Lagoon is a good candidate due to depth, proximity to racing areas and development status (open but already concrete/paved). Regarding other infrastructure, take a hard look at the existing Gate 4 area at Alameda Marina (where the 3-ton hoist is) and you'll see almost none. No electrical to the spaces (there are a couple 110 outlets if you know where to look), a couple water spigots and the bathroom by Doyle Sails - that's it. That's also part of why it has been an affordable option.

One downside of Alameda Point is crew parking vis-a-vis not being close to any other marina where you could pick them up. We (SSS) don't tend to think like that but it could be a factor for the fully-crewed crowd. To keep this affordable you need most of the space you're leasing to be generating income - parking for crew doesn't do that.

Another downside is access. As said in previous posts, getting in and out of Alameda is not getting any easier. At least we'd be doing it at non-commute times.

After dry-sailing from Nelson's for a season, I tried to convince Carl that he could probably have the entire J/105 fleet lined up along his fence if he could set up a dry-sailing operation instead of trying to run what was, by then, a mediocre boat yard. You know where that went.

AlanH
11-19-2015, 10:26 AM
Gentlemen, I have news for you. The entirety of Alameda Point...the ENTIRE THING has been zoned by the City of Alameda, exactly the same as the Alameda Marina...aka "North Alameda Shoreline". It's all zoned for mixed housing and light retail.

We CAN'T move a replacement for the Alameda Marina to Alameda Point. The zoning won't allow for it.

It's possible that a little business that did nothing but haul boats out of the water and store them in parking lots might be able to work....as long as the public had access to the waterfront. But there will be no haulout, boat repair, metal work, or "light industry" in Alameda Point, according to the zoning.

AlanH
11-19-2015, 10:30 AM
Ya know, it occurs to me there is a nearby space, owned by the City of Alameda [or at least the Alameda Point Development Authority].
It even has a travel lift equipped pier.

Now, admittedly, the city liquidated Nelsons old travelift to satisfy the back rent, and there is little other infrastructure in the seaplane lagoon, but zoning wise it is likely to stay light industrial for sometime to come, and is emphatically NOT in the path of the 5000 planned units on the point.

Top of mind, since my office looks right across the lagoon at the empty building and yard...

DH

Not according to the zoning map we were shown at the meeting last night. Now, that map could have been BS. It was pointed out to us by the former vice-mayor of Alameda last night that the development company wonks were less than honest with us about zoning and the housing imperative. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they "lied" to us via a much ovr-simplified map of zoning areas on the island.

BobJ
11-19-2015, 10:39 AM
It's possible that a little business that did nothing but haul boats out of the water and store them in parking lots might be able to work....

That's all I'm contemplating. Even if the zoning allowed it, no one can set up a boatyard on San Francisco Bay any more.


Alan, I don't know if I have your current e-mail addy - I just sent one to your address at Yahoo.

Philpott
11-19-2015, 01:05 PM
I love the mob scene from the Simpson's cartoon. Cute. But we are civilized people, if singlehanders. According to Erin Garcia, administrative assistant at the Alameda Planning Department, NO FORMAL APPLICATION regarding the Alameda boatyard or marina has been filed with the City as of today. If you would like to write a letter regarding this issue, send it to Andrew Thomas, Assistant Community Development Director. The address is: City of Alameda Planning Division 2263 Santa Clara Avenue Room 120, Alameda California 94501. Emails to PlanningBoard@Alamedaca.gov
Board members are David Burton, David Mitchell, John Knox White, Kristoffer Koster, Lorre Zuppan, Mike Henneberry and Sandy Sulllivan; Letters are forwarded to individual board members every two weeks.

AlanH
11-19-2015, 02:05 PM
I love the mob scene from the Simpson's cartoon. Cute. But we are civilized people, if singlehanders. According to Erin Garcia, administrative assistant at the Alameda Planning Department, NO FORMAL APPLICATION regarding the Alameda boatyard or marina has been filed with the City as of today. If you would like to write a letter regarding this issue, send it to Andrew Thomas, Assistant Community Development Director. The address is: City of Alameda Planning Division 2263 Santa Clara Avenue Room 120, Alameda California 94501. Emails to PlanningBoard@Alamedaca.gov
Board members are David Burton, David Mitchell, John Knox White, Kristoffer Koster, Lorre Zuppan, Mike Henneberry and Sandy Sulllivan; Letters are forwarded to individual board members every two weeks.

Excellent. Thanks!

AlanH
11-19-2015, 02:06 PM
Here's the e-mail I just sent:

=============================================

Hi I'm writing to you as someone who does not live in Alameda, but is extremely concerned about the process underway to redevelop the marina. I can't speak to local issues such as traffic and congestion. However, I can write about the value of the Alameda Marina as it stands right now.

Because of economic, political and permitting issues, it is essentially impossible to open another boatyard anywhere on San Francisco Bay any more. The costs would be astounding and the bureaucratic and permitting hurdles would take many, many years to complete. Once the Alameda Marina is gone, its function will not be replaced in our lifetimes.

I know that all the pretty boats along the shoreline are very attractive, but without a place to take them out of the water, clean the bottoms of weed and barnacles, and do repairs, owners can not maintain those boats. The number of yards around the SF Bay that can service boats has plummeted. It was only a decade ago that there were 4-5 yards in Oakland/Alameda that could do this. Now there is one.....Alameda Marina.


Not only is the Alameda Marina the last remaining place in Oakland/Alameda to do this work, but because of its unique nature, the Marina serves as a hub for other local businesses. A drive down Clement Avenue reveals a large number of light industry...Sals (liferafts and inflatable boats)... a couple of welding shops, outboard motor repair shops and so on. If the Alameda Marina closes, it's pretty certain that those industries will leave.

At the community meeting last night, the employees of the development company showed us a map of the island of Alameda that says that the North Alameda Shore has been re-zoned to "mixed use housing" and "light retail". We were told that this is incompatible with any sort of boatyard, and that housing and light retail, maybe a waterfront restaurant, are the only things that can be there. The rezoning, we were told, happened in 2012. The developer has no choice, according to their presentation. They MUST infill the entire marina with housing and remove the boatyard and associated industries.

I cannot strongly enough encourage the planning office and the city council to reconsider this zoning. There are other locations along Clement Avenue that have not served the community in any way, really for many decades. I just drove down Clement twice in the past week, and the old warehouses at the south-east end are now gone. Housing, if it must be built, can be built there. The Alameda Marina can be changed in ways to improve it's appearance, if that is what bothers people. "The "Clement Wall" ... the 200-yard long brown "wall" of the sides of the buildings are indeed unattractive. However, that can be changed without destroying the character and function of the place.

The development company representatives talked about "revitalizing the waterfront". If you've been to the Alameda Marina in the last few months, you'll realize that it doesn't need "revitalizing". It's busy. People are working and playing there. Could the space be used more efficiently? Yes, probably so. But the site is emphatically NOT "dead". It's quite vital and active.

To close, I want to emphasize that once the Marina is razed, and that is the stated goal of the developer as per the two meetings that took place yesterday, that function will never be replaced. The Alameda Marina is a unique place in a unique location. It is not just an Alameda resource, it is a resource used by people from all over the Bay Area. I live in Menlo Park, and I drove 90 minutes in rush hour traffic to attend the meeting last night because I realize how valuable the Alameda Marina is.

By the way, before I got there, I spent $12 in Nob Hill market to buy something for dinner. I filled up my cars gas tank at the Chevron station. I have my boat in dry storage and use the Alameda Marina hoist to launch it. I buy sails and equipment from Marina businesses. If the Marina is razed and replaced by townhouses and condos, I literally will have no reason to ever go to Alameda again.

Please reconsider the zoning for the area, that according to the developer, is driving the demolition and destruction of this vitally important place.

Alan Hebert

Philpott
11-19-2015, 02:57 PM
That is a very articulate and serious letter, Alan, and you make excellent points about the effects upon other marine businesses in the area. However, if the owner of the boatyard has sold the development rights, it sounds like he does not want to be in that business anymore. Imagine the clean-up issues inherent in marine property, the liability costs and the disdain of the ecologically pure with regard to boatyards. By selling to the developers the owner has been able to wash his hands of all that. I attended a dockside party in Berkeley recently, where a young child was fascinated with the sailboats. As little children do, he walked around opening and closing everything up and down the docks. When he got to my dockbox he lifted the cover and peeked in at my West Marine epoxy and etc materials just as his father came to recover him. The father grabbed his son in horror (HORROR!!!) and cried, "Don't touch anything!" I thought there was a snake in my dockbox. "Those are TOXIC MATERIALS!!!", he informed his child. "Don't touch anything else! We're leaving!" I think that's the way boatyards are viewed by people who don't have boats, and it's a significant attitude to overcome. That's why your argument about the effects upon people's livelihoods needs to be made by the people who own and work in the businesses all around. I'm sure that will begin now. You have served as the canary in the mine.

BobJ
11-19-2015, 03:53 PM
To be precise, there is also a boat yard at Grand Marina along with associated marine businesses like the Blue Pelican, Marchal Sailmakers/UK Sails, Pacific Marine Canvas, etc. But as Grand Marina also gets surrounded by housing, those businesses days could be numbered. Alameda needs to decide how important its maritime heritage is, and the importance of the accessibility the city provides for boating recreation.

They also need to figure out how they would get all those new residents on and off the island. That's the 500# gorilla in the room.

To add: I wonder if the owner of Grand Marina is saying its boat yard and related businesses have to leave because of a zoning change in 2012. That argument by Poland's company isn't making sense.

K38Bob
11-19-2015, 04:29 PM
To be precise, there is also a boat yard at Grand Marina along with associated marine businesses like the Blue Pelican, Marchal Sailmakers/UK Sails, Pacific Marine Canvas, etc. But as Grand Marina also gets surrounded by housing, those businesses days could be numbered. Alameda needs to decide how important its maritime heritage is, and the importance of the accessibility the city provides for boating recreation.

They also need to figure out how they would get all those new residents on and off the island. That's the 500# gorilla in the room.

To add: I wonder if the owner of Grand Marina is saying its boat yard and related businesses have to leave because of a zoning change in 2012. That argument by Poland's company isn't making sense.

Looks like Grand Marina is part of the plan too
http://alamedaca.gov/business/business-and-waterfront-improvement-project-bwip

zoom out to all project areas http://alamedaca.gov/Business/Project-Areas

For those interested, heres a link to search "Northern Waterfront" on city of alameda site http://alamedaca.gov/search/node/northern%20waterfront

Steevee
11-19-2015, 04:46 PM
Up here in little old, economically depressed Humboldt Bay we had a hotly contested Harbor Commissioners race recently with tens of thousands of dollars donated by various business interests including developers. A couple of years ago these seats were uncontested, if you wanted it you got it...not anymore. There's money to be made on that water front property. I can't imagine the politics and money interests involved in Alameda where there's a thriving economy (at least compared to Humboldt where our number one revenue source is weed). Good luck guys!

BobJ
11-19-2015, 05:12 PM
Fffffffft . . . ahhhhhh!

Bob N, my point is the zoning change only affects you if you want to develop the property, right? So leave it the way it is and the "problem" goes away . . .

AlanH
11-19-2015, 10:53 PM
**DOH**

Totally forgot about the Grand Marina yard.

BobJ
11-22-2015, 06:58 PM
I went reconnoitering today. Man, there's a lot of unused waterfront in Alameda, even if you don't include Naval Air. Lots of it accesses deep water; most (but not all) is fenced off. The coolest piece I saw (and it's accessible) is between Wind River and Fortman Marina (just East of Encinal YC). The old piers are probably shot but that's deep water in there, with lots of finished parking that's sitting unused. There's also unused property just West of Beery's place (at Mariner Square) and at that point you're getting on out towards the Bay (vs. the long motor from Alameda Marina). I'm seeing dozens and dozens of acres of unused deep water access that's just sitting there, fenced off. It's actually kind of weird.

On the Bay side, the Alameda Community Sailing Center is in a nice spot away from the industrial areas. Ballena Bay (which was the squeeky new happening place when I was a kid) is looking so-so. The marina is fairly full but the buildings are filled with mostly non-marine businesses now.

Back to the weird, Fifth Avenue Marina (on the Oakland side) is the poster child for weird and funky and sits right in the middle of everything. Some kind of big development is happening between it and the Jack London Aquatic Center - not sure what.

And Alameda could totally build a tunnel that would hook into 880 without having to go through Chinatown. Hey, it's only money.

AlanH
11-22-2015, 08:29 PM
There's actually a space at Ballena Bay for another hoist, out on the point.


latitude 38 covered the Alameda Marina issue today... http://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/lectronicday.lasso?date=2015-11-20

K38Bob
11-23-2015, 10:29 AM
I went reconnoitering today. Man, there's a lot of unused waterfront in Alameda, even if you don't include Naval Air. Lots of it accesses deep water; most (but not all) is fenced off. The coolest piece I saw (and it's accessible) is between Wind River and Fortman Marina (just East of Encinal YC). The old piers are probably shot but that's deep water in there, with lots of finished parking that's sitting unused. There's also unused property just West of Beery's place (at Mariner Square) and at that point you're getting on out towards the Bay (vs. the long motor from Alameda Marina). I'm seeing dozens and dozens of acres of unused deep water access that's just sitting there, fenced off. It's actually kind of weird.

On the Bay side, the Alameda Community Sailing Center is in a nice spot away from the industrial areas. Ballena Bay (which was the squeeky new happening place when I was a kid) is looking so-so. The marina is fairly full but the buildings are filled with mostly non-marine businesses now.

Back to the weird, Fifth Avenue Marina (on the Oakland side) is the poster child for weird and funky and sits right in the middle of everything. Some kind of big development is happening between it and the Jack London Aquatic Center - not sure what.

And Alameda could totally build a tunnel that would hook into 880 without having to go through Chinatown. Hey, it's only money.

Most of the space thats fenced off is associated with the naval base and needed cleanup. Some has just been released which includes off base housing. The TArget shopping center is another example. https://alamedapointenvironmentalreport.wordpress.com/2015/11/19/navy-housing-site-safe-to-transfer/

That water next to Windriver (aka Intel) is owned by the people that own the lot between Fortman and WR. All part of the northern waterfront project (houses).

The sailing center is where the officers marina and campground were located (all the copper was stolen from conduits). Regional park people salivate for that area.

Ballena BAy may have a location for a hoist- but you need dry storage and you'll lack on the maritime infrastructure associated with Alameda Marina.

Other folks are way ahead on land grabs that need lots of different approvals (and money).

It also seems that the OAkland side is targeted for housing between JLS and park st- so likely more loss of marinas.

The powerboats that "drysail" at AM, do they use the hoist? grand st ramp (and parking there seems to disappear in the plans)? or just storage like rv?

BobJ
11-23-2015, 11:05 AM
During the time I drysailed out of Gate 4, the powerboats stored there rarely moved. Small powerboats would be pulled in on trailers and use the washdown area, then leave. I think they launched and pulled out at Grand St. BTW, that ramp is outside of the defined development area, which ends at Alameda Marina Drive (Gate 9). The architect was just sloppy with his shading.

Anyway, a handful of SSS'ers and some of the multihulls were the only regular users of the Gate 4 hoist. 90% (plus) of the boats just sit - like most marinas for that matter. The hoist at Brickyard Cove is far more active (as a comparison) but it's all sailboats, many of which are actively raced. They also don't allow empty trailers and boats that are likely to just sit.

Driving around yesterday caused me to change my tune a bit . . .

AlanH
11-23-2015, 02:32 PM
I STRONGLY ENCOURAGE people to look at the slide presentation that was given to us to explain the developers potential plans. This is NOT, I repeat NOT the part where we were asked to vote on how strongly we agreed or disagreed with various possible housing types or industry types that could be on the site.

http://alamedamarina.com/pdfs/alameda-community-meeting.pdf

AlanH
11-23-2015, 02:37 PM
Bob, Alaska Packers Wharf and Alaska Packers Basin would be another absolutely prime dry-storage and hoist spot. It would be WAY, way better than Ballena Bay. However, I can't imagene but that land has been purchased, long, long ago. I just talked to Sandy Sullivan, brand-new on the City of Alameda planning board and she referred to development that was planned there.

I believe that developers for that area are somewhat "inconvenienced" by the move to put the old Del Monte cannery building on the register of Historic Places. I have to say that it's an awfully cool brick building. Problem is, it's almost certainly an earthquake nightmare waiting to happen. But its cool, nonetheless - and it's right there.

K38Bob
11-23-2015, 04:31 PM
I STRONGLY ENCOURAGE people to look at the slide presentation that was given to us to explain the developers potential plans. This is NOT, I repeat NOT the part where we were asked to vote on how strongly we agreed or disagreed with various possible housing types or industry types that could be on the site.

http://alamedamarina.com/pdfs/alameda-community-meeting.pdf
Lease info from 2012
http://www.alamedamarina.com/pdfs/alameda-lease-info.pdf ;

see link for both http://alamedamarina.com/full-update.html

future updates at development site http://alamedamarina.com/
and commercial site http://alamedamarina.net/

AlanH
11-24-2015, 01:42 PM
Zoning map for the City of Alameda...

The "mandate" to raze the site and replace it 100% with housing is supposed to be driven by zoning, right? Well, there's a pdf map of exactly how the City has zoned all of Alameda and Bay Farm Island at this link: http://alamedaca.gov/sites/default/f...high_res_1.pdf

You can look for yourself. The Alameda Marina is partly zoned M-2 for "General Industrial" and partly zoned M-X for "Mixed Use". There's a special district of some kind which has a "multi-family-housing overlay" on parts of the marina land but not others. Precisely what that special district means or implies, I'm not sure, however a discussion with one of the women at the City planning office indicates that this means that the area may be ALLOWED for certain other uses like R-1, R-2, R-3 (residential) but it is not REQUIRED.

BobJ
11-24-2015, 11:41 PM
Bad link.