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jamottep
01-31-2016, 09:30 PM
Good day,
I'm not sure this is the best place to post this. Admins, feel free to move accordingly.

I started sailing about 2.5 years ago. I'd like to do the 2018 TransPac and the process that leads to it. Therefor I'm in need of boat, although not urgently.

I'd prefer a boat that's been prepared before. I don't want to win, just have a fun, safe adventure, with a group of folks who have been there done that.

A few things ... I'm 6'6" and would prefer enough headroom at least in one area in the boat. All in all, with the resale, I'm hoping for this adventure to cost me less than $20,000 over the next 2+ years. I'm in Redwood City.

Let me know if something shows up please.

jamottep
12-05-2016, 09:28 PM
I'm now committed. Budget more flexible. Headroom not so relevant anymore. Sadly just missed Temerity and Elise! The three others here are above what I can handle for initial and ongoing costs (Lightspeed, Andrews 28 and Sunfast 3200). Please, let me know if you know of a boat that's ready or almost ready to take me through the races leading up to the 2018 Transpac (yes I understand the first one is coming up end of January).

pogen
12-06-2016, 03:49 PM
Custom Wylie 39 LIGHTSPEED is still on the market, a PacCup and SHTP vet. Cal 40s have bunks that are 7' long I believe.

If you want to do the SHTP 2018, you really, really should plan on doing LongPac 2017. Really.

pogen
12-06-2016, 04:25 PM
This one is the tits http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2011/Beneteau-Figaro-II-2945947/Split/Croatia#.WEdIfVJP2NM

pogen
12-06-2016, 04:30 PM
Farr 30 for only $30k. Might be pretty hard to sail alone. http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1996/Farr-30-2931114/San-Pedro/CA/United-States#.WEdJUlJP2NM

Jenneau Sun Fast 3200, two boats on YW for $95-99k. That Fagaro II above is a way better boat for less money.

Proto Mini Transat for $95k. http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2007/Prototype-Mini-Transat-6.50-3036482/Los-Angeles/CA/United-States#.WEdJa1JP2NM
They have historically not done that well against O30 types in the SHTP.

BobJ
12-06-2016, 05:46 PM
There will probably be a few more Figaro II's available, now that the foiling Figaro III is coming out. Nat just bought a Figaro II to replace Elise.

I'm leaning towards a bit larger and cruisier boat but it's only a slight lean - it may be awhile - and my J/92 only has standing headroom for a pygmy. But she's rarin' to race to Hawaii.

pogen
12-06-2016, 05:58 PM
Gossip on Fig III says it will be a few years....

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=172703

1971

The real scoop

http://www.courseaularge.com/presentation-officielle-figaro-3.html

jamottep
12-06-2016, 08:07 PM
Would this work? It's been on craigslist ever since I've started looking at boats ... http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/boa/5908732946.html

pogen
12-06-2016, 08:59 PM
Buy a Hobie 33 with a trailer.

jamottep
12-06-2016, 09:53 PM
Buy a Hobie 33 with a trailer.

I'm sorry ... I get it ... my question wasn't very considerate of your time ... let's just leave this at: I am really interested in hearing from this community if you know of a boat for sale that's mostly ready for the LongPac coming up in July, with a price around $30,000. Or if you do come across one in the next month please let me know. I'm subscribed to this thread or please PM me otherwise. I'll come back to the for sale forum regularly in case something shows up.
Apologies ...

BobJ
12-06-2016, 10:12 PM
I'm guessing pogs was semi-serious. A Hobie would be a blast in this race - I was always bummed that Mark Halman never did the SHTP with SLEEPING DRAGON. He won most of the other SSS races with it. Last I knew there were a couple Hobie 33's on trailers behind Gate 4 at the Alameda Marina. SLEEPING DRAGON and Brian's TURBO CAMPER, which did the SHTP in 2012. At one time Brian's boat was for sale.

I wouldn't rule out that Int'l Folkboat you posted. Three have done the SHTP, most recently Adam's BLUE MOON in 2010. Reed Overshiner's RELIANCE holds the second-best corrected time ever for a monohull. But you need a windy year or you'll miss most of the Tree Times and you'll be pressed to finish the race before the 21 day time-limit - they aren't fast. They also weren't built very well but that one looks like it's had some beefing up in the right places, and a more powerful rig installed. And I'd want an inboard.

pogen
12-06-2016, 10:35 PM
There are multiple Hobies out there with trailers, and for less money than the FB. Hobie 33s are fast, and muy macho.

They are cheap because they have no interior, and wives won't sign off on them.

A 6'6" guy will be miserable in a Folkboat, and on a Hawaii trip, miserable for a long time.

pogen
12-07-2016, 11:42 AM
That Olson 911s ELUSIVE might will soon be listed at Sail California, it would be an excellent choice, currently listed under S/A Classifieds for $30k.

SeanRhone
12-07-2016, 07:13 PM
Buy a Hobie 33 with a trailer.

I bought a Hobie 33 and prepping it for the 2018 race.

Oceanslogic
12-07-2016, 07:16 PM
I do have a soft spot for Intl. Folkboat's...however... miserable for a looooooooooong time sums that up pretty well...and unless you are Bionic Overshiner you miss quite a bit of Tree Time :) That Olson 911 "Elusive" looks to be a nice platform. There is also the Olson 30 "Double Espresso" that completed the Pac Cup this year...In keeping with fast is fun...I keep seeing a nice looking Olson 29 pop up for sale on craigslist in the Pac NW for just under 20K. For the bottom feeding variety...local craigslist has a Scampi 30 for cheap...along with a ridiculously cheap Cal 29...There was also a nice looking Olson 34 for sale down south a few months back...looked to be a good deal.

jamottep
12-08-2016, 10:54 PM
Thanks for keeping the thread alive and thanks for reminding me that a slow boat may not be the best choice.
Links are for me ...
I've emailed Sail California to inquire about the Olson 911s. http://www.sailcal.com/brokerage/?slim=pp290331&ps=20&lineonly
About Hobie 33s, I've contacted the one boat that doesn't have an address to find out where it's at. I don't have a vehicle to pull up a trailer. None seem to have any offshore preparation. http://www.hobie33class.com/hobie33-for-sale.htm
I saw the Capri and Cal 29 but they're nowhere in terms of offshore preparation. http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/boo?boat_propulsion_type=1
There's a Cape Dory 30 cutter that's back from lots of travelling around that seems ready, although probably a little tired. In the slow category ...
I've emailed the owner of Double Espresso. http://www.olson30.org/show-ad/?id=281
Keep them coming :-)

jamottep
12-08-2016, 11:39 PM
Double Espresso still available, trying to see it this weekend. Anything I should look for in particular in a 1982 Olson 30? This is my first boat and I'm no boat expert ...

pogen
12-09-2016, 09:34 AM
Double Espresso seems like a great deal, for a turnkey hawaii boat with a trailer... you will saving a LOT of time and money. Maybe I should buy it just to have.

Critter
12-09-2016, 11:49 AM
I've seen that Scampi at South Beach. Those boats have always intrigued me since they seemed to be the hot tip while reading sailing magazines on my dad's Centaur circa 1971 ... and my current boat has reasonable headroom for jamottep ... hmmm ...

No! forget it! I like my boat!

BobJ
12-09-2016, 01:01 PM
I wrote that singlehanding a Hobie 33 to Hawaii would be a blast (and it would be) but I'll also suggest it would be like a driver-training graduate hopping into a Porsche Turbo. It will keep swapping ends on you and you won't know why. Maybe something a bit smaller, heavier and less powered-up for the first time?

svShearwater
12-09-2016, 06:08 PM
Double Espresso does seem like a good option. o30's are probably the most successful boat ever in the SHTP. We raced against DE this summer and Jason has had that boat for a long time, is meticulous, and knows the boat very well. You'd be hard pressed to find a more turn key boat at a good price.

jamottep
12-09-2016, 11:53 PM
Thanks for the lead on Double Espresso. I checked it out this afternoon.

Sitting in Double Espresso was a bit of an eye opener ... I see yoga in my future ...

My first impression was excellent. The hull looked great/shiny in the trailer and the boat basically looked new. I was really excited. When we climbed on the ladder to go on deck (it's on a trailer) things were different there and that first impression dissipated and was replaced with a generous dose of realism about what 30 years does to a boat. Lots of gear is available for purchase and there are a lot of nice touches throughout. Water is coming in as as the bilge was full (it's small to begin with) and there was a poodle on one of the "sleeping tubes". Maybe that's normal for these boats. Next step would be a test sail and trying to move around inside simulating cooking, navigating, personal business, sleeping ... cramped comes to mind.

Please keep the leads coming about well prepared boat ...

pogen
12-10-2016, 08:50 AM
I wrote that singlehanding a Hobie 33 to Hawaii would be a blast (and it would be) but I'll also suggest it would be like a driver-training graduate hopping into a Porsche Turbo. It will keep swapping ends on you and you won't know why. Maybe something a bit smaller, heavier and less powered-up for the first time?

Back to the Olson 911s. A lot bigger inside than the O-30. More money, needs more setup.

svShearwater
12-10-2016, 09:33 AM
Welcome to world of boat buying. Every boat is a compromise. You can have performance, comfort, and a good price. Pick any two.

+1 on the Olson 911.

SeanRhone
12-10-2016, 10:22 AM
Thanks for keeping the thread alive and thanks for reminding me that a slow boat may not be the best choice.
Links are for me ...
I've emailed Sail California to inquire about the Olson 911s. http://www.sailcal.com/brokerage/?slim=pp290331&ps=20&lineonly
About Hobie 33s, I've contacted the one boat that doesn't have an address to find out where it's at. I don't have a vehicle to pull up a trailer. None seem to have any offshore preparation. http://www.hobie33class.com/hobie33-for-sale.htm
I saw the Capri and Cal 29 but they're nowhere in terms of offshore preparation. http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/boo?boat_propulsion_type=1
There's a Cape Dory 30 cutter that's back from lots of travelling around that seems ready, although probably a little tired. In the slow category ...
I've emailed the owner of Double Espresso. http://www.olson30.org/show-ad/?id=281
Keep them coming :-)

The Hobie33 list on that site, not sure how up to date it is. There are a few here to look at.

http://www.sailboatlistings.com/sailboats/Hobie

jamottep
12-10-2016, 12:46 PM
I'm putting offshore readiness ahead of comfort. I am warming up to the O30.

With regards to the water in the bilge, should that be a concern? Maybe hose the deck down and watch under? My assumption is that a boat on the dry should stay dry inside, even if it rains.

Any surveyor to recommend, someone with experience with these boats? The cost of the boat itself, excluding sails and gear (14k), is low enough that I wonder if it makes sense.

I'm not clear on the process:

1. Sail it;
2. Survey it (maybe);
3. Buy it at DMV;
4. Insure it (does this require a survey);
5. Find a new marina.

svShearwater
12-10-2016, 01:03 PM
First place I would check for leaks is where the mast passes through the deck. That's a very common and not worrisome leak point.

Insurance usually requires a survey, but not always. Boat US did not require it for a similar boat earlier this year.

SeanRhone
12-10-2016, 01:55 PM
I got liability only insurance for my Hobie 33 without a survey. If I wanted full coverage a survey was required.

Oceanslogic
12-10-2016, 04:00 PM
If you pass on the O30 because of the headroom....and pass on the O911 because of the price tag....unless Max scoops up the Scampi 30 :) that could be a nice fit...I imagine it needs work but it looks to be dirt cheap. https://sfbay.craigslist.org/scz/boa/5911392758.html
That being said...there will be some prep work and modifications involved with whatever you buy...which will involve cold showers and shredding $100 bills :) The bilge water in Double Espresso is most likely from the mast partners and the mast base via internal halyards...I get that in my Olson when it rains a bunch. Not a deal breaker...and having owned both....the O30 has a MASSIVE interior compared to the Santa Cruz 27...and more waterline :) But the primo fast is fun ticket for both comfort, headroom, and SH manners would be the Wilderness 30...but they are hard to find and I know Domino is NOT for sale :)

Not sure if this is still for sale...but the O34 in SoCal looks real clean:
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/boa/5887840937.html

pogen
12-10-2016, 09:44 PM
Very nice cosmetics, but has a wheel, and no spin setup. Would cost a bit to get race ready. Probably a fair price though.

jamottep
12-11-2016, 11:18 PM
Quick update ... hoping for a sail on Double Espresso around 12/21.
I called in for the Scampi. That's a little flaky at this point. I'll call again tomorrow.
911s too expensive at this time, unless it's just as ready as Double Espresso, which I can't tell from the add on Sail Anarchy.
I contacted Sail California but haven't heard from them.

pogen
12-12-2016, 11:00 AM
If I can make a suggestion, when you are thinking in terms of 'too expensive' or not, you should probably think in terms of total program cost, not just purchase price. Many experienced owners will agree that purchase cost is the least of it.

Of course, an honest budget would scare off a lot of people, and even more spouses!

Here are a few things to include

1. Boat purchase cost
2. Running cost -- slip, ins. , taxes
3. Electrical system upgrades -- batteries, charging, solar, etc.
4. Rigging overhaul
5. Sail budget
6. A/P system with redundancy
7. Comms gear (purchase or rental)
8. E-rudder
9. Lost income while taking time off work
10. Return delivery or shipping (inc. trailer, ancillary expenses)

jamottep
12-12-2016, 11:31 AM
Good call ...

1. Boat purchase cost
Note: Jason, if you're watching, this is not my offer to you; this a number that was suggested to me for the whole deal.
25000.

2. Running cost -- slip, ins. , taxes
2 years: (250/mth for all 3)
6000

3. Electrical system upgrades -- batteries, charging, solar, etc.
Double Espresso should be ready. Adding 500 to fix anything that comes up.
500

4. Rigging overhaul
Double Espresso is ready here.
0

5. Sail budget
Double Espresso is ready here.
0

6. A/P system with redundancy
I think Double Espresso only has one. May want to install pelagic instead.
1500

7. Comms gear (purchase or rental)
All's there, 1000 for subscription fees
1000

8. E-rudder
It's there
0

9. Lost income while taking time off work
Boooh

10. Return delivery or shipping (inc. trailer, ancillary expenses)
4500

11. Coaching, training, food, kitty, shit happens
5000

TOTAL: 43500

Resale value: 25000 (who am I kidding)


Out of pocket: $18500

Ah ... poke at it ... make me cry :-)

BobJ
12-12-2016, 11:48 AM
We've found it's best to avoid doing this calculation.

svShearwater
12-12-2016, 01:22 PM
Those are fairly reasonable numbers. Figuring $20k, not including the boat, for a 2 year SHTP campaign. Sounds about right.

Can you really get a slip in the Bay area for $250/mo for a 30 footer, nevermind the taxes and insurance?

A few of your numbers have a little padding, so that's good. You'll use it somewhere else, I'm sure.

Philpott
12-12-2016, 04:24 PM
Berkeley upwind shared slip for Dura Mater/ 27' = $301; in Grand Marina individual no wind slip = $291.

Lanikai
12-12-2016, 05:41 PM
Brisbane 30' double-finger = $240. Single-finger about $220. Other options might be further south bay, maybe deep in the Oakland estuary, maybe San Rafael...30' under $300 involves limitations. And that's excluding taxes and insurance as others note.
Might want to bump your monthly to 300 or 350. Gas House and most of Sausalito were close to or over $400 as of a few months ago. Brickyard and Marina Bay I think were around the 300 mark for 28-30' when I was looking last year.

Now I'm curious: what is the insurance situation for SHTP'ers? Is there a requirement to be insured all the way across, and how do insurance companies treat singlehanders? Is it "good riddance--er, luck, to you" once you leave the Gulf of the Farallons and "welcome back, coastal policyholder!" when you're 20 miles from Hawaii? Or do some get serious bluewater cruising type coverage (whatever that is)?

brianb
12-12-2016, 07:30 PM
Insurance: Nothing from the SSS requires insurance. Your marina will. You won't find insurance for the trip, or at least none you would want to pay for. It is virtually non existent. Assume in your budget that you may lose the boat.

Slip fees: I 2 nd the Brisbane costs, my boat is in a 35' slip and the cost is $240. If you happen to locate there you want to be on docks 3 or higher. There is a wind gradient between 1 and 3 that is somewhat remarkable. Also note, expect to use your storm sails to get back to the marina on an average summer day.

Brian

Lanikai
12-12-2016, 10:08 PM
... you want to be on docks 3 or higher. There is a wind gradient between 1 and 3 that is somewhat remarkable. Also note, expect to use your storm sails to get back to the marina on an average summer day.
Brian

Second that. Moved into dock 6 in May. It can be a deceptively balmy 5 kts at the slip but 25 a hundred yards beyond the breakwater. Engine use has gone way down since moving from the estuary. Turn the corner at Hunter's point and it's a screaming wet starboard tack right to the entrance. Mt. San Bruno makes things interesting.
The pigeon turd, however, has been an unwelcome change from Alameda.

jamottep
12-13-2016, 09:03 AM
It's confirmed. Test sail on Double Espresso Wednesday 12/21 afternoon, Santa Cruz. It's 10 days away so things could happen between now and then. If anyone's willing/interested to help test sail and evaluate for SHTP readiness please PM me.

jamottep
12-15-2016, 10:28 PM
I'm also scheduled to check this Ericson 35 on 12/23, recommended to me because it was prepared in 2004/2006. That's a long time ago ...
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/boa/5917005411.html
Probably more than I can afford owning. Still good to check other boats.

Any recommendation for a surveyor up Richmond?

BobJ
12-16-2016, 12:14 AM
Heh, heh. Yup, that boat knows the way. That was Bill's boat.

Just don't climb into one of the cockpit lockers en route.

Philpott
12-16-2016, 11:09 AM
That boat has seen a lot of love

jamottep
12-16-2016, 03:38 PM
Test sail on Double Espresso moved to this Saturday 11am ...

jamottep
12-17-2016, 06:42 PM
Great guy Jason is! Really thankful for a test sail on his Olson 30. I think the boat is great; the sailor (me) is ignorant and incompetent, and realizing the uphill battle he's facing. I'm not sure the price is right for me but really don't have a point of reference besides what other owners are listing here:
http://www.olson30.org/marketplace/

pogen says it's cheap ... is it? Total asking with gear is $30,905. Should I make an offer? He's got folks coming up from Ventura tomorrow to check the boat. I feel like with gear I want to offer $21,300. Maybe I'm being stupid ... and just can't see the opportunity. I know I historically tend to push prices down on used vehicles.


About the Scampi ... I spoke to the owner. Apparently it did the race in 1994:

YR SKIPPERS NAME YACHT NAME YACHT TYPE RATING TIME TIME COMMENT
1994 PETER MYRNER MELODY SCAMPI 30 186 14:18:44:08 10:05:12:08

I suspect a lot of work would be required on this boat. Electronics need to be replaced (fried), only VHF, no autopilot, not sure about emergency steering system, need new lifelines, need alternative energy sources ... I'm seeing the boat tomorrow morning.

jamottep
12-18-2016, 11:44 AM
Yep, the Scampi is old. Hasn't sailed in two years. I think it could have worked, except that:
1. The water in the bilge was salty. Could for many reasons but many would be costly to fix.
2. The shrouds' point of attachment seem to be damaged, pulling away. Pictures attached.
1991
1992

brianb
12-18-2016, 12:49 PM
The "shrouds pulling away" appears to be a copper ground strap, nothing to do with the shroud , carries not load. Likely part of the boats grounding system Bill added for SSB and lightning arrest. It sure looks like copper to me from the photo. Unless you are referring to the hairline stress cracks at the deck joint. They would warrant some re tabbing just to play it safe.

A turn key boat, as David N suggests, has a lot going for it. All you need to do is sail out to SF buoy, tie the stern to the buoy, and set / douse kites for a day or two to find a groove.

jamottep
12-18-2016, 12:55 PM
Yes I was referring to the cracks and the bulging of the deck at the point of attachment of the shrouds. I'm concerned I'd lose a shroud in a blow and then the mast. You're right about the grounding part.

jamottep
12-18-2016, 12:57 PM
Also the diesel engine did not start, possibly because of a low starter battery.

jamottep
12-18-2016, 03:20 PM
Ah ... Price went down in half on the Scampi after my visit ... $2500 now.

brianb
12-18-2016, 05:06 PM
Ah ... Price went down in half on the Scampi after my visit ... $2500 now.

Ah, yeah, that would be an issue for sure. Especially bulging at the deck. Time to re bed those chain plate supports. A fellow dock mate had his split in two on an islander 36 while underway. He was really lucky the deck held it in place and was able to shorten sail and head in. We glass in a new plywood plate. The old one was located near a on board shower and the shower water had dry rotted the plywood. I think Steve with s/v Frolic completely re beded his prior to the 2012 race.

Brian

jamottep
12-18-2016, 06:42 PM
I'm wondering ... Would anyone have an idea of what the cost is for a boat yard in the bay to do the following on the Scampi 30?
1. Complete service of a two cylinder diesel engine $1500
2. Re-bed chain plates for two shrouds.$2500
3. Bottom job. $2000
4. Service and tune standing rigging. $2500
5. Install new set of electronics, incl comm & parts. $5000
6. Service prop and shaft. $1500.
Order of magnitude is good. I put my guess. That's $15000 to refit the boat ... Probably way off?

OlyJeff
12-18-2016, 07:22 PM
I'm wondering ... Would anyone have an idea of what the cost is for a boat yard in the bay to do the following on the Scampi 30?
1. Complete service of a two cylinder diesel engine $1500
2. Re-bed chain plates for two shrouds.$2500
3. Bottom job. $2000
4. Service and tune standing rigging. $2500
5. Install new set of electronics, incl comm & parts. $5000
6. Service prop and shaft. $1500.
Order of magnitude is good. I put my guess. That's $15000 to refit the boat ... Probably way off?

It might be better to find a boat that is closer to being ready to go.

BobJ
12-18-2016, 07:56 PM
+1

They're out there. You're learning a lot by looking though.

At almost $31K I think the Olson 30 is high. The price (especially on the gear) will come down over time.
.

OlyJeff
12-21-2016, 09:57 AM
There is an Olson 30 for sale in Olympia for $7500.

svShearwater
12-21-2016, 12:15 PM
What would be the cost of equipping a bare boat to SHTP standards? Life raft, e-rudder, storm sails, autopilots, etc. It's a chunk of change and you have the time required to buy and install all that stuff. It can eat up 1.5 years in a hurry. Realistically, very few people at this point could buy a boat that wasn't very ready to go now and make it to the startline in 2018.

I bought boat a bare boat similar to an O30, 23 months before Pacific Cup and just barely got the boat ready in time. And I had two people committed to the job.

AlanH
12-22-2016, 07:35 AM
I'm going to speak up here and you're probably not going to like what I have to say...
...Don't buy a boat that is Ready For The Transpac.

Buy a boat that is structurally sound and MAKE it ready for the transpac.

You write that you're not an experienced sailor. The way you get ready for this event is by a. Sailing alone a LOT and b. Analyzing, installing, breaking, and fixing a lot of shightte. When something goes south "out there" you Need to know how to fix it. How are you going to do that without DOING it?

Don't buy a boat with a big keel bolt issue or a deck delamination issue, eh? Also don't assume you gotta have a hot race boat to do this race. I took a Santa Cruz 27 across and while it was a good boat for me around the Bay, I don't have The personality to drive that boat aggressively for 15-17 days. Olson 30s are great boats, so are Hobie 33s. Are they a great boat for YOU?

AlanH
12-22-2016, 07:55 AM
There was a day, many years ago in the SSS, that I spent a fair bit of time watching a certain red Scampi 30s tidy little transom. Just an historical note.

Cal 20's and Pearson Electras have done the SHTP. However, their skippers knew every piece of kit on their boats inside-out. I well remember , also many years ago, a guy who bought a nice new expensive European boat. He paid another guy to do all the work for him. ALL of it. He did a couple of Bay races, went around the farallones, did the longpac and then did the SHTP. The "boat boy" brought the boat back to California.

Who got the respect? You can "buy" the SHTP race rather like how many (but certainly not all) Very Big Boat Owners "buy" that other Transpac. It's been done. The mountains and rainbows in Hanalei are the same for both. But the experience and the achievement are not. It depends on what you want, what you do.

Steevee
12-22-2016, 03:22 PM
Buy a boat that is structurally sound and MAKE it ready for the transpac.

You write that you're not an experienced sailor. The way you get ready for this event is by a. Sailing alone a LOT and b. Analyzing, installing, breaking, and fixing a lot of shightte. When something goes south "out there" you Need to know how to fix it. How are you going to do that without DOING it?
+1

This is the route I'm going. I have replaced the drive shaft, cutlass bearing, installed PSS, self steering wind vane, AIS, all hoses below the water line, every through hull have been serviced and or replaced, rudder post repacked, steering (cables, armature, pullies) disassembled serviced and reassembled and tuned, pulled all standing rigging, resized and replaced because the mast was not properly seated on the mast step and settled 2" after a vigorous sail (30knts close hauled for 6 hrs)...this was something I and the surveyor missed when I bought the boat. Stupidity?...maybe but shit happens. Things will not reveal themselves on a boat until you push her. And I just barely got started. I've pulled the boat twice in one year. All the work I have done myself and some of it has been a steep learning curve, but I'm glad Ive done it. I know my boat. I have confidence that what I fixed was done properly and safe. If anything I probably overthink shit too much. I guess I'll figure that out too.
Buy a boat that speaks to you and that has a good reputation, sail the shit out of it and break stuff. Figure out what works and doesn't work for you. Strip off stuff you don't use or need. Add what is required and what works for how you sail. Sometimes you'll sail the boat and other times the boat will sail you. Make it yours. Start now!

AlanH
12-22-2016, 07:11 PM
+1

This is the route I'm going. I have replaced the drive shaft, cutlass bearing, installed PSS, self steering wind vane, AIS, all hoses below the water line, every through hull have been serviced and or replaced, rudder post repacked, steering (cables, armature, pullies) disassembled serviced and reassembled and tuned, pulled all standing rigging, resized and replaced because the mast was not properly seated on the mast step and settled 2" after a vigorous sail (30knts close hauled for 6 hrs)...this was something I and the surveyor missed when I bought the boat. Stupidity?...maybe but shit happens. Things will not reveal themselves on a boat until you push her. And I just barely got started. I've pulled the boat twice in one year. All the work I have done myself and some of it has been a steep learning curve, but I'm glad Ive done it. I know my boat. I have confidence that what I fixed was done properly and safe. If anything I probably overthink shit too much. I guess I'll figure that out too.
Buy a boat that speaks to you and that has a good reputation, sail the shit out of it and break stuff. Figure out what works and doesn't work for you. Strip off stuff you don't use or need. Add what is required and what works for how you sail. Sometimes you'll sail the boat and other times the boat will sail you. Make it yours. Start now!

I haven't torn engines apart, not have I had hydraulic or mechanical steering to deal with but the rest of this rings true. Remember that 98% of the sailboats on SF Bay have never gone past Point Bonita. The doesn't mean they're "bad boats" and can't do a sail to Hanalei, but it's up to you to make sure.

to the OP....

This. THIS. What stevee wrote.

CRC1965
12-23-2016, 09:55 AM
Starting now for 2018 Transpac is not as far in advance as you might think....especially if you have a job. I started about this time for 2016 with Ventus and was amazed at how much there was to do and how quickly time could slip by. It is comforting when you leave to have gone over every inch of the boat in detail....things will still surprise you...but the more you can take apart and put back together the better. The advice about spending lots of time sailing (given already) is excellent but at times hard to accomplish with boat prep. Enjoy the process it is part of the fun.

jamottep
12-24-2016, 11:17 AM
Long shot but just thought I'd ask anyway ... don't ask don't know ...

Would anyone be interested in renting me a boat for the next 18 months or so? I don't think it's such a far stretched idea. Look at it this way - and this is just an example: $750/month for 20 months, that's $15,000. The boat would need to be near ready and improvement required would be paid by the owner, or if portable I'd take care of it (e.g. portable VHF). More details to be worked out of course. I would have priority for all SSS races until after the 2018 SHTP.

Yes, I read all the comments about how I need to know the boat inside out and that one way to do this is to prepare a boat from scratch.

Oh well ... merry parties to all ...

CRC1965
12-26-2016, 12:11 PM
A completely different option (apologies to the single hand community) would be to get a ride on Hula Girl (J-World) to the Islands.....well setup full on race boat......

Steevee
12-27-2016, 11:10 AM
Yes, I read all the comments about how I need to know the boat inside out and that one way to do this is to prepare a boat from scratch.

Buying an already outfitted boat sounds like an awesome idea. It may save you money in the long run...and during the next 18 months you can sail the shit out of it and break stuff and learn the boat. You'll spend more time sailing than working on it, in which experience and seamanship is a bigger factor in a successful race than the boat... 89% of all rescues at sea are due to operator error, fatigue, illness, injury, etc.(boat prep included). Only 11% of the time was it the boat construction itself to blame.

CRC1965
12-27-2016, 01:41 PM
If you are willing to consider 2020. You could alway wait in Hanalei Bay and offer cash. At that point you could have had Ventus for 25 cents on the dollar.......

Seriously you are on the right track. Many of the expenditures for offshore have little to no wear on them, but have depreciated at lot once used......

svShearwater
12-27-2016, 03:44 PM
If you are willing to consider 2020. You could alway wait in Hanalei Bay and offer cash. At that point you could have had Ventus for 25 cents on the dollar.......

Seriously you are on the right track. Many of the expenditures for offshore have little to no wear on them, but have depreciated at lot once used......

Ha! Spadefoot was for sale in Kaneohe Bay this summer for a fine price too! Now, not so much. Amazing what selective amnesia can do.

SeanRhone
12-28-2016, 09:32 AM
What would be the cost of equipping a bare boat to SHTP standards? Life raft, e-rudder, storm sails, autopilots, etc. It's a chunk of change and you have the time required to buy and install all that stuff. It can eat up 1.5 years in a hurry. Realistically, very few people at this point could buy a boat that wasn't very ready to go now and make it to the startline in 2018.

I bought boat a bare boat similar to an O30, 23 months before Pacific Cup and just barely got the boat ready in time. And I had two people committed to the job.

Question - Did you barely make it because of time or budget? I'm working on getting my Hobie 33 ready for this race and my biggest problem is money.

SeanRhone
12-28-2016, 11:50 AM
If you are willing to consider 2020. You could alway wait in Hanalei Bay and offer cash. At that point you could have had Ventus for 25 cents on the dollar.......

Seriously you are on the right track. Many of the expenditures for offshore have little to no wear on them, but have depreciated at lot once used......

That is a heck of an idea! I paid $18k for my Hobie 33 and will probably put another $30k into it to get to the finish line. Not having to spend $6k or $7k to ship back and also haul it back to the east coast.

I can see where some people would consider an offer.

svShearwater
12-28-2016, 06:45 PM
Question - Did you barely make it because of time or budget? I'm working on getting my Hobie 33 ready for this race and my biggest problem is money.

For us, it was mostly time. Because it was a new boat to us we wanted to sail it a lot. So, we weren't working on the boat every weekend. We were also fortunate to already have a lot of the major safety equipment; life raft, sat phone,etc. still, just getting the electronics installed, the charging system, e rudder, and a million little details, took mucho time.

Oh, and it cost us $3500 to ship a 28 footer via Pasha in 2016. Better pricing than previous years, I think.

mike cunningham
12-28-2016, 08:01 PM
Assuming you do not plan to sell the boat upon the completion of the race you may want to add another couple of grand to the budget for repairs upon return. Part of my pain was a result of my decision to have the boat sailed back so additional stuff wore out/broke on the return.

In my case

sail repairs at Marchals - $500
rig repairs and replacements $1K
- new main and jib halyards
- new vang tackle
- rebuild traveller
- repair mast and camberspar damage - OK, I spent three weeks doing three days of work - my bad.
Electronics repairs
- replace VHF antenna, twice - $50 Plus mast haul out included in mast damage
- repair and replace stng block and wiring after electrical short - $100
- replace ST to stng converter which failed $100
- repair failed wind instrument - $200

And a LOT of elbow grease to do all of the above. Of course you don't have the time pressure like you do getting ready for the race but its still a lot of work. Having said this I can't believe I am already thinking about the next laundry list to get everything in shape for the 2017 LongPac. Crap!

svShearwater
12-29-2016, 11:03 AM
That is a heck of an idea! I paid $18k for my Hobie 33 and will probably put another $30k into it to get to the finish line. Not having to spend $6k or $7k to ship back and also haul it back to the east coast.

I can see where some people would consider an offer.

Didn't the first to finish Olson 30 sell in Hawaii this year?

jamottep
12-29-2016, 05:44 PM
Didn't the first to finish Olson 30 sell in Hawaii this year?

I think the story was that someone tried to sail it back home but it was taking too much water in (hence my original concern about Double Espresso being wet inside) and he turned around after a few days. I think you're right that it was sold in HI after that.

SeanRhone
12-30-2016, 02:12 PM
For us, it was mostly time. Because it was a new boat to us we wanted to sail it a lot. So, we weren't working on the boat every weekend. We were also fortunate to already have a lot of the major safety equipment; life raft, sat phone,etc. still, just getting the electronics installed, the charging system, e rudder, and a million little details, took mucho time.

Oh, and it cost us $3500 to ship a 28 footer via Pasha in 2016. Better pricing than previous years, I think.

Speaking of life rafts, I'm planning on renting one from http://www.avalonrafts.com/index.htm, anyone have experience with this company?

Oceanslogic
01-02-2017, 09:02 PM
This could be a nice platform for the SHTP...
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/boa/5938230133.html

Philpott
01-03-2017, 12:34 PM
This could be a nice platform for the SHTP...
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/boa/5938230133.html

Very nice boat indeed. Note the transom-hung rudder; no rudder post issues: packing, breaking, etc. Simple emergency rudder replacement. I have a friend from Kauai who has gone back and forth on this boat twice. He says it is comfortable on the ocean.

CRC1965
01-09-2017, 10:12 AM
Rudder replacement in the ocean means you will need a cassette that you can slot the replacement rudder into. Or some sort of swing down mechanism. Unless the boat is perfectly still in the water you will almost certainly not be able to put the rudder back on and line things up; any water movement gives the rudder much much more leverage than you can manage. Certainly one advantage is a bent rudder post won't leave you with a jammed rudder and unable remove it. Rudder post allows below decks autopilots to be more easily installed (keeping stuff out of the saltwater.....generally good). Keep in mind whatever autopilot is attached to the tiller may be lost depending on how the transom hung rudder fails.

Boats looks solid......grab it and get started!!

svShearwater
01-09-2017, 10:28 AM
I agree with Chris. I'd much prefer a rudder post than a transom hung rudder, primarily because your autopilot options are much better (operationally and longevity) if you have a rudder post where you can attach the autopilot belowdecks.

Also, transom hung rudders have a history of failures going to Hawaii. Primarily with failed gudgeons. Perhaps, the failure rate is no higher than standard rudders. I can't say for sure.

The advantage of a transom hung rudder seems to begin only after the failure. Easy to remove and it implies your boat is already setup with a tiller which makes the e-rudder tiller easier to implement and connect to an autopilot. With our e-rudder we were able to add some nice redundancies. We made the gudgeons of the e-rudder identical spacing as the primary gudgeons. This means if the primary gudgeons fail, the primary rudder could be moved to the secondary gudgeons (assuming the sea state permits this). It also means that if the primary rudder blade fails, then the e-rudder cassette can be attached to the primary gudgeons, on centerline.

2044

2045

Oceanslogic
01-12-2017, 06:43 PM
Who is still looking for a boat? Here's another nice looking platform...
http://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/boa/5956235065.html

jamottep
01-12-2017, 07:23 PM
I'm almost there. In fact a couple questions:

1. Is the life raft requirement only for the SHTP or does it also apply to the singlehanded Farallones and LongPac? I have an opportunity to buy one but it's due for service two months before the SHTP 2018. So I'm inclined to not acquire if not needed for the prior races.

2. I should have a boat here soon and I am signed up for the Three Bridge Fiasco. But ... I have zero experience racing. Would anyone want to help me with my first race? It's an Olson 30.

Thanks for sharing your advise so far.

The Smokester
01-12-2017, 08:04 PM
...1. Is the life raft requirement only for the SHTP or does it also apply to the singlehanded Farallones and LongPac? I have an opportunity to buy one but it's due for service two months before the SHTP 2018. So I'm inclined to not acquire if not needed for the prior races...

The 2015 Longpac required a liferaft similar to the SHTP2016. Not the Farallons.

The 2015 MERs (Minimum Equipment Requirements) are here:
https://www.jibeset.net/JACKY000.php?RG=T005953377

Lanikai
01-12-2017, 11:04 PM
2. I should have a boat here soon and I am signed up for the Three Bridge Fiasco. But ... I have zero experience racing. Would anyone want to help me with my first race? It's an Olson 30.


3BF could be a wee bit daunting for your first-ever race. If an ugly forecast doesn't keep people at home, there will be a LOT of boats out there, and the starting area will be especially intimidating. Ditto Blackaller.
But it's cool, man! Boats everywhere! An awesome experience, especially if there's decent wind. You haven't sailed SF Bay until you've done 3BF (says the guy who's just barely finished a couple of them).

I'll leave real racing and O30 advice to others. My 2 cents:

* Sail conservatively and avoid trouble, especially if you're just getting familiar with your boat. Seems every year there are a few avoidable problems in the fleet.
* If you're in Redwood City, or just not a real morning person (I am not), consider anchoring or taking a slip Friday night so you can sleep in and be sorted out at the city front well ahead of time.
* Be on starboard tack. Or at least when the Moore 24s are getting in a frenzy nearby.

svShearwater
01-13-2017, 08:17 AM
I'm almost there. In fact a couple questions:

1. Is the life raft requirement only for the SHTP or does it also apply to the singlehanded Farallones and LongPac? I have an opportunity to buy one but it's due for service two months before the SHTP 2018. So I'm inclined to not acquire if not needed for the prior races.

2. I should have a boat here soon and I am signed up for the Three Bridge Fiasco. But ... I have zero experience racing. Would anyone want to help me with my first race? It's an Olson 30.

Thanks for sharing your advise so far.

Did you buy Double Espresso?

jamottep
01-13-2017, 08:25 AM
Did you buy Double Espresso?

My offer was accepted and we plan to complete the transaction Sunday. Is that a bad idea?

svShearwater
01-13-2017, 08:47 AM
Not bad from my view. We raced against DE to Hawaii this summer. Seems like a great boat and O30s have a great history going to Hawaii.

Oceanslogic
01-13-2017, 09:37 PM
Great to hear you are getting DE! It looks to be a really nice O30! Where will you be keeping the boat?

jamottep
01-13-2017, 10:52 PM
Where will you be keeping the boat?

That's an excellent question! The owner dry sailed out of Santa Cruz. I could continue to do that, with access to offshore sailing, but it's one hour away from home, with no traffic. I could look for a space in Alameda or BYC, both about one hour away too. Being in Santa Cruz means I'm outside the SSS race circuit, requiring boat transport to the Bay, which apparently is no small feat for a single hander, what with unstepping and restepping the mast. I'm unlikely to do TBF because of that. I could also stop dry sailing and berth in Redwood City, 15 minutes away from home and close to the SSS circuit.
I'm interested in opinions or maybe other options I haven't considered.

Lanikai
01-14-2017, 02:56 PM
I'm interested in opinions or maybe other options I haven't considered.

Dry sailing options are -- wait for it -- drying up, at least in Alameda, as AlanH and solosailor and others have written about elsewhere. I'm guessing this will soon put pressure on dry sailing space at Brickyard and Sausalito, if it hasn't already. Does Berkeley have an O30 capable hoist?
Personally, moving my boat to the same side of the bay as work and home has been a complete revelation. I can sail after work and make real mid-week progress on projects. That means weekends are devoted to sailing instead of projects. That was not an option when Bay Bridge rush hours separated me from my boat.

I suspect you'll do a lot more sailing if you just slip it in RWC. Then move to a dry spot when you get serious about being fast and prepping for SHTP. But then you probably don't want to convert your bottom from dry to wet and back to dry....I dunno, tough call. I believe BobJ and others have been there, done that, and probably have wisdom for you.

BobJ
01-14-2017, 08:21 PM
The paint wasn't that big a deal. The ablatives (including the good, harder ablatives like Micron 66) are still effective after sitting on a trailer for awhile.

I drysailed out of Alameda Marina for almost four years. There are several Olson 30's still there. It's a decent compromise - still a long ways to the race course but better for driving from the Peninsula than Richmond. (Sausalito is no longer an option for drysailing.) Of course the boat stays rigged so you basically flip the fenders down and launch. Things may be changing with Alameda Marina's dry storage but probably not for another year or two.

I tried to batch big projects and twice took the boat up to Benicia Marina to knock them out (it's 10 min. from my house). So maybe do some of both. Most races are a LONG way from Redwood City and if there's anything you need now it's lots of tiller time: Farallones, Long Pac, OYRA etc. Driving is faster than sailing up to the Bay every time to race.

jamottep
01-14-2017, 08:59 PM
I'm new at everything so please continue to share. I like the idea of being in Santa Cruz near the ocean and having the option to sail 2 days/1 night. But yeah driving back and forth and getting in and out of the water adds 1.5 hr at each end.
One thing I have no idea about is how to get an Olson 30 ready for transport and back for sailing. Is this something I can manage alone in a few hours without drama?
I'm not sure I understand the comment about dry then wet then dry. Does that refer to different hull preparation and painting?

BobJ
01-14-2017, 09:46 PM
One thing I have no idea about is how to get an Olson 30 ready for transport and back for sailing. Is this something I can manage alone in a few hours without drama?

It would be tough with a 30'er with a keel-stepped mast. I think mast-up dry-sailing (Alameda Marina or Santa Cruz) is your only realistic option. Or keep it in the water.


I'm not sure I understand the comment about dry then wet then dry. Does that refer to different hull preparation and painting?

I think that's what he meant.

jamottep
01-15-2017, 12:04 AM
I can get one year in Santa Cruz but I'm not sure how I'd get the boat to the Bay with the mast up ... Motor and sail all the way up? Sure lots of tiller time there!

Steevee
01-15-2017, 09:50 AM
Congratulations on your new boat.
In regards to your predicament, I believe you should keep the boat in the water close to home if your final goal is to just sail in the SHTP. You'll have more time on the water without hassle and that counts for a lot. Make it easy and it will be more enjoyable. Owning a boat is going to be hassle enough.

OlyJeff
01-15-2017, 05:46 PM
Who is still looking for a boat? Here's another nice looking platform...
http://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/boa/5956235065.html

That's was probably my ad for an Olson 29. I paused the ad as my crew is thinking about buying. If they don't pull the trigger I will list here first. It's a great boat but would need a bit of work to get ready.

jamottep
01-15-2017, 07:31 PM
Congratulations on your new boat.

Well ... the story continues ... I said hello to the bank Saturday morning, drove to Big Sur with the family and today woke up to drive back to Santa Cruz, the family sleeping with friends by Bixby bridge. I was to meet with the seller and move on to Part II of this saga. Something else happened. The transmission gave up, maybe the clutch, 10 minutes away from Bixby. I walked all the way back 90 minutes, called the seller to cancel, called a tow truck. A friend dropped me back at the car and up the truck it went. I left the car in Seaside and decided to come back home. What was to be the one of two happiest days of boat ownership ended up being a shitty Sunday!

Hopped on a bus to Sand City, on another one to San Jose, and finally Uber pool'ed home ... chit chatting along the way with the driver and as we near home I mention that I was about to get a boat. And boom, the guy says he's got one, did the singlehanded transpac and goes on to recommend a Hobie 33. He also seems to know Double Espresso. I'll call him again to chat further as he had to move on and I wanted to chill off this shitty Sunday ... Even mentioned Sleeping Dragon and another one with a red bottom where his RV is (connecting the dots, could be Turbo Camper).

I'm not irrational, I like to think but ... when the Universe speaks ... do you listen?

Any idea where I can test sail a Hobie 33?

Steevee
01-15-2017, 08:14 PM
https://youtu.be/goW_CcNBpvM

OlyJeff
01-16-2017, 07:51 AM
Well ... the story continues ... I said hello to the bank Saturday morning, drove to Big Sur with the family and today woke up to drive back to Santa Cruz, the family sleeping with friends by Bixby bridge. I was to meet with the seller and move on to Part II of this saga. Something else happened. The transmission gave up, maybe the clutch, 10 minutes away from Bixby. I walked all the way back 90 minutes, called the seller to cancel, called a tow truck. A friend dropped me back at the car and up the truck it went. I left the car in Seaside and decided to come back home. What was to be the one of two happiest days of boat ownership ended up being a shitty Sunday!

Hopped on a bus to Sand City, on another one to San Jose, and finally Uber pool'ed home ... chit chatting along the way with the driver and as we near home I mention that I was about to get a boat. And boom, the guy says he's got one, did the singlehanded transpac and goes on to recommend a Hobie 33. He also seems to know Double Espresso. I'll call him again to chat further as he had to move on and I wanted to chill off this shitty Sunday ... Even mentioned Sleeping Dragon and another one with a red bottom where his RV is (connecting the dots, could be Turbo Camper).

I'm not irrational, I like to think but ... when the Universe speaks ... do you listen?


Any idea where I can test sail a Hobie 33?

So help me understand. You canceled the Olson deal because your tranny went out? But now your considering a Hobie 33?

jamottep
01-16-2017, 08:48 AM
So help me understand. You canceled the Olson deal because your tranny went out? But now your considering a Hobie 33?

I haven't cancelled the deal. At this time it's on hold until I can meet with the seller again, which is likely a few weeks out now.

On the Hobie 33 ... it was suggested to me before and now again as a better choice. Put a windvane and trim sails ... it'll sail straight to Hawaii. I'm being told it's easier than an Olson 30, which would be good for me since I'm a beginner with no experience with ULDBs.

OlyJeff
01-16-2017, 09:06 AM
Hmm, I haven't sailed a Hobie 33 but I imagine it would be a handful for a beginner.

Steevee
01-16-2017, 10:12 AM
[QUOTE]suggested to me before and now again as a better choice. Put a windvane and trim sails ... it'll sail straight to Hawaii/QUOTE]
There's a Hobie 33 up here on Humboldt Bay named "Rookie". Fast boat off wind, not so going to weather. Definitely a one way trip to Hawaii then ship it back.
The Olson would seem to be a better all round boat with a little more room. You mentioned you're 6'6" in a earlier post. Something to think about. Good luck!

Oceanslogic
01-16-2017, 10:44 AM
If you are on the fence about ULDB's...you should scoop up that Scampi 30 or Albin Cumulus for a song...slap a windvane on the back...set aside a month to fix a few things...order a few chutes and maybe a set of twins..and call it good. Which Hobie 33 are you considering? I thought Turbo Camper sold a year or so ago? I would make sure the Hobie has a new rudder...Was DE's rudder newish?

sleddog
01-16-2017, 05:38 PM
Hmm, I haven't sailed a Hobie 33 but I imagine it would be a handful for a beginner.

+1, unless the beginner seeks and enjoys surfing down waves at 20 knots in the dark..Ask Syn. She and two experienced crew had thrilling times in the last Pac Cup on AERO, and that was triple handed. At one point they couldn't remember if the spinnaker was up or not it was so dark (it was up.)

Sleep deprivation will do that. Though we never definitively heard, we do know the skipper of Hobie 33 SPACE COWBOY got tired of conversing with voices in the SHTP when he decided to step off his boat. Ghost ship if there ever was one.

BobJ
01-16-2017, 06:20 PM
We've had a few short-term or "serial" boat owners who've bought a boat for the SHTP, scrambled to get it in shape and equipped, and then raced it once to Kauai. They've either sold their boats over there or as soon as they got them back here, and in some cases we haven't heard from them again.

Most of us aren't like that. Sled is a notable example. He raced over in 1978 and 30 years later, he raced again in the same boat (and won). I've owned my boat for 14 years and hope to race it a fourth time to Hawaii (my posts about cruisier boats notwithstanding). I'll also note that the average historical "gestation period" for a first-time SHTP campaign is five years.

So if it was me, I'd buy a boat I would enjoy sailing for awhile (including with family), do some singlehanded races with it (we have quite a few), rattle around in the ocean a bit and then see what you think about racing it solo to Hawaii.

As they say, "my two cents."

Christian
01-18-2017, 10:48 PM
+
Two cents well spent.

AlanH
01-19-2017, 01:04 PM
We've had a few short-term or "serial" boat owners who've bought a boat for the SHTP, scrambled to get it in shape and equipped, and then raced it once to Kauai. They've either sold their boats over there or as soon as they got them back here, and in some cases we haven't heard from them again.

Most of us aren't like that. Sled is a notable example. He raced over in 1978 and 30 years later, he raced again in the same boat (and won). I've owned my boat for 14 years and hope to race it a fourth time to Hawaii (my posts about cruisier boats notwithstanding). I'll also note that the average historical "gestation period" for a first-time SHTP campaign is five years.

So if it was me, I'd buy a boat I would enjoy sailing for awhile (including with family), do some singlehanded races with it (we have quite a few), rattle around in the ocean a bit and then see what you think about racing it solo to Hawaii.

As they say, "my two cents."

This would be me. I was unable to get everything ready in 1996, but left the day after the race started and sailed a Ranger 29 to Kauai. I had a wonderful passage, the Navik windvane did 90% of the steering, I flew the kite when it was light and spent a lot of time wing-and wing. 16 days later I got to Kauai. I gave the boat to the University of Hawaii sailing program when I got there. In 2007 I bought a Santa Cruz 27 and set it up for the passage. Two months before leaving, I put the boat up for sale on Craigslist, HI and had 15 respondants. I literally had four extremely well-qualified, serious buyers to choose from. The boat is now racing out of the Ala Wai.

I did this because sailing, for me is not something that I can devote a lot of money to. I don't have a 32+ foot cruising boat that would be comfortable and fun to sail back from Hawaii. Also, I haven't been able to take another month off of work in order to sail back. Buying a Santa Cruz 27 for $10K, putting $6K worth of gear on it and sailing to Hawaii was great, but that burned through the entire sailing kitty. I took off a lot of the $6K worth of gear and got it back to California, where I sold it. I sold the boat in Hawaii for $8K. Upshot was, when I was all done, I had zero in the kitty but no debt...and no boat. I was not able to afford to take another month off to sail a Santa Cruz 27 back from Kauai to San Francisco and shipping the boat on Matson was $10,000. That made absolutely zero financial sense. Spend ten grand to ship a ten grand boat back? I could sell the boat for eight, come back to California and buy another SC27 for the money I'd spend on shipping the boat, easily. Anyway, I spent the next seven years wearing kilts, throwing hammers, stones and cabers at the highland games, pooping around on the SSS forum (I did a couple of race committees) and sailing a little wood boat that I can keep for nothing in the front yard.

My goal in 2008 was to sail the SHTP....not have a "forever boat". I achieved my goals. I sailed the race. As stated in another thread, my goals were: 1.) finish the race 2.) finish the race with a smile on my face 3.) Not be last. Note that this was in 2008, and it's now 2017 and I'm just about to sail my next SSS race after that 2008 SHTP. It took me 8 years to buy another boat fit to sail on the main Bay.

So I would say this.... You MUST THINK ABOUT YOUR GOALS. What do you want? WHAT DO YOU WANT? Do you want to sail to Hawaii? You don't have to do a race to sail to Hawaii. Do you want to do the SHTP, specifically? That's a very different goal from wanting to win the SHTP, outright. Do you want to be the First to Finish? Do you want to have a great boat and do a cool passage? Just what is it that you are trying to accomplish, here?

I gotta say...just blindly blundering along, "I'm doing the singlehanded transpac" because it sounds cool, without really knowing what the 'eff you actually want out of this process is pretty blitheringly stupid. If you want to throw money at boat, I have a candidate....you're welcome to throw money at mine.

Do you want to have a boat that you can sail all over the Pacific? Do you want to do the Singlehanded Transpac? Do you want to WIN the Singlehaded TransPac. What do you want? Do you detect a theme to this post? I have to tell you that I was heartily sick of prepping boats for the Singlehanded TransPac after 2008. It's a freaking year of work and a lot of money. I've done it three times. It's a great learning process but I can't recommend doing it over and over and over again. I plan to do another SHTP in my current boat. I will prep it. But that boat is coming back to California with me, I'm not doing this "prep the boat and then sell it" again. Screw that. Been there, done that, got more t-shirts than I need.

AlanH
01-19-2017, 01:20 PM
I'm reading this and I have a thought or two. Quit all this garbage about the SHTP. You're not ready. You don't even know what the difference between sailing a Hobie 33 and sailing a Scampi 30 is.

Go sail on other peoples boats for two full racing seasons. Then buy a boat and singlehand it on races in the Bay and in the Ocean for two years. Have you sailed around the Farallone Islands, yet? It sounds like the answer is "no". Dude....first things, first.

THEN, if you're still interested in the Singlehanded TransPac, start prepping your boat.

There is an alternative. I wrote it all out, but it came off sounding really snarky so I deleted it. Upshot...sail on other peoples boats in the Bay and in the Ocean for two full seasons. Then buy a boat. Singlehand it for two full seasons. THEN start thinking about the Singlehanded TransPac.

BobJ
01-19-2017, 03:19 PM
I've done it three times.

Because of this, you weren't who I had in mind when I posted.

If someone wants to buy a boat, race to Kauai and then move on to the next big adventure, good on 'em. My point was that most of us aren't wired up that way. Maybe you could say we're sailors first and adventurers second.

By the way, Philippe originally introduced himself over in the crew thread and was indeed looking to crew on OPB's to gain experience. I hope he's able to do so because it also helps in deciding what kind of boat you want to own. I also see he's entered to race an Olson 30 in the 3BF.

AlanH
01-19-2017, 06:26 PM
Because of this, you weren't who I had in mind when I posted.

If someone wants to buy a boat, race to Kauai and then move on to the next big adventure, good on 'em. My point was that most of us aren't wired up that way. Maybe you could say we're sailors first and adventurers second.

By the way, Philippe originally introduced himself over in the crew thread and was indeed looking to crew on OPB's to gain experience. I hope he's able to do so because it also helps in deciding what kind of boat you want to own. I also see he's entered to race an Olson 30 in the 3BF.

No worries, Bob! I still fit the description.

I've set up three different boats to sail across to Hawaii, and actually done it in two of them. Back when I did the Ranger 29, the rules didn't require an SSB or Sat Phone...there sort of weren't Sat Phones back then. So I got in the boat, took off and didn't talk to anybody until Ken Roper came up on the VHF, sixteen days later. You're right, most folks aren't "wired" how I've been wired, and I have to say that I'm quite done with being wired this way! If I could've had what I wanted, I'd have been sailing a Pacific Boats Olson 911S since about 1987.

However, family budget and staying married in mind, when I look back I'm completely OK with how I did all this. The prep for the 2008 SHTP was not fun. It was the third time around. I'd failed at getting to Hawaii the 2nd time and I wasn't doing the race because I thought I would enjoy it. I was doing the race so that I could look at myself in the mirror in the morning and not say "failure". There was no joy in my 2007-2008 prep. Once I got to the Corinthian YC, though, it started to be fun and the sail was great. It wasn't as grand as the 1996 passage, but it was The Race, and I was doing it and I had a good time. Anyway, I'm rambling.

If Philippe is getting sailing experience, then that's all to the good!

jamottep
01-19-2017, 09:30 PM
There is an alternative. I wrote it all out, but it came off sounding really snarky so I deleted it.

That's cool ... the rest was so friendly I really am interested in seeing what snarky is ... Seriously what were you suggesting? Float on my belly with a sail up my a**?

snark·y
adjective NORTH AMERICAN informal
(of a person, words, or a mood) sharply critical; cutting; snide.
"the kid who makes snarky remarks in class"
cranky; irritable.
"Bobby's always a bit snarky before his nap"


Anyways ... OPB hasn't worked for me. No boat yet so stepping out of TBF; all a bit premature.

AlanH
01-19-2017, 11:55 PM
Well, if OPB hasn't worked out, then has been pointed out, there are two great boats currently for sale on Craigslist... the Scampi 30 and the Albin Cumulus.

If those are honestly out of your budget...and I totally understand how they could be, it's not the sales price that's the killer, it's the recurring costs... then there's a Cal 24 for $1800 on Craigslist. It's not glamorous, it's not fast but it can absolutely do the trip. Cal 20's have gone and the 24 is a lot bigger.

There's an old Columbia 26 for 500 lousy bucks on Craigslist.-- http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/boa/5959569234.html -- Again, not fast. --> Definitely not glamorous. But it will sail to Hawaii and not break the bank. BTW, I dunno about the bubble-top Col 26. ugh. But the oldie which is a stretched Col 24... they're pretty solid.

Until yesterday or something, there was a Bristol 27 on CL. The Bristol 27 was the boat that Carl Alberg designed for Bristol Yachts to compete directly with the Triton, which he also drew. They are solid as a rock cruising boats, if a bit top-heavy to my eye. Again, not "fast". Not "HOT". But solid and it will get you there.

The thing about really slow boats on the race to Hawaii is that they rate so much slower that you can finish DAYS behind the ultralights and beat 'em on handicap. It's happened before. Also, are you experienced enough and aggressive enough to drive an ultralight hard, day in and day out and get all the performance out of it, that you should? I'm not. I took a Santa Cruz 27 to Hawaii and I absolutely should have had a slower boat. I didn't have the spinnaker up all the time, I wasn't playing games with the squalls and so on. I just pointed the boat at Hawaii and kind of tried to make her keep going.

Are you aggressive enough and skilled enough to get everything out of an ultralight, all the way to Hawaii? If the answer is "no" then.......don't take an ultralight.

But honestly, that Scampi 30? The boat has a working diesel. It's a great design, they made about a bazillion of the mark iii's and they're still cruising all over the Baltic, not to mention probably 50+ on the East coast of the US. I've been beaten by Scampi 30's. This one has got some fancypants Ballenger double-spreader rig...so that's anice replacement, there, and I bet dollars to doughnuts that the running backs are for sail shape, not to keep the stick up.

Peter Norlin nailed it on that boat's design. Look at YouTube, there are umpty-ump Scampi 30 videos on there. The Scampi 30 has a big cabin and a dinky little cockpit. That's great for singlehanding and doublehanding, everything is within reach. Offshore, if you take a wave in the cockpit, you're not filling up a bumptillion gallons of water. There's a nice bridgedeck to put the traveler on...the primary winches are right there...it's a tiller boat. Sure it's an IOR boat with big headsails and a little main, but you don't HAVE to fly that 155% every time.

I dunno, man.... if you're on a budget, or just starting out, there are a couple of awfully good options available on CL right now.

Steevee
01-20-2017, 10:38 AM
Seriously what were you suggesting? Float on my belly with a sail up my a**?

That's funny. Now I'm going to hijack your thread.

I'm in the process of prepping my boat to sail to Kauai this June with my wife. After much dreaming, discussion and planning about doing the SHTP, my wife simply suggested, "Hey, why don't you just prep and plan to sail to Kauai this summer." and she added, "...with me". It all made perfect sense...kinda. Anyway, I finding it overwhelming at times to complete all the projects to satisfaction on top of work, family and finding time to sail. I'm finding all kinds a little things that can become potential problems while making a passage. Whether it's wiring, plumbing, rigging or water ingress through port lights, it all can be a potential issue. I saying all this for me, because I got to have confidence in my boat. I'm probably overly paranoid, but I have reason to be.
During my first passage with Peter Heiberg I experienced some heavy weather. It blew 40knts and seas were 14ft 9secs for about 20 hrs. We took on multiple waves, one knocked Peter to the floor of the cockpit. I was in awe at the helm when I realized I was looking downhill at the bow on Peter's 50ft sloop. The only thing that kept me from being scared was that I was with an experienced veteran sailor who was a professional mariner. Peter told me later that if I still want to sail after that then you probably have experienced the worst weather you ever will...fingers crossed.
This was my experience and although I have always respected the Ocean... being a surfer, I came away from that in awe. It's different when there is no land in site. I know others who are way more experienced and courageous than me will have a different opinion, but the thought of pointing my bow off the horizon and chasing the sun is intimidating as well as exciting. To take it lightly or become complacent is my worst fear. That's the approach I'm taking in prepping my boat.
I'm sailing to Hawaii now because there is no better time than now. I'm sailing to Hawaii to see if I can do it. I'm sailing to Hawaii to grow with my wife. I'm sailing to Hawaii because it has been a dream of mine. I'm sailing to Hawaii to Prep for the SHTP. If we fail, we will have learned something and try it again. I'll keep you posted and you keep looking for your boat and follow your dream. You can do it, I can do it because others have done it. Good Luck! Let's keep inspiring one another. Love!

jamottep
01-21-2017, 11:41 PM
[QUOTE=Steevee;16645 I'll keep you posted and you keep looking for your boat and follow your dream. You can do it, I can do it because others have done it. Good Luck! Let's keep inspiring one another. Love![/QUOTE]

Thank you! That's really nice of you to say.

And thanks for the suggestions AlanH. I did check the Scampi and posted about the boat last year.

It's simple for me. Based on everyone's comment about the time it takes to prepare a boat, the little spare time I have and the lack of familiarity with extensive boat repairs, I can only see an almost ready boat in my future. In my budget 20-30k I haven't seen many so far. So it doesn't matter if I'll push an ULDB all the way. I mean if I'd find a trimaran that meets all SHTP requirements and it'd fit my budget I'd buy that. I don't care to win. My main goal is to gain single handed offshore sailing experience in a somewhat safe context). If it all goes great then I'll move on to the next level for me.

Still set to buy DE for now unless something else shows up in the next few days.

Thanks for keeping the thread alive!

jamottep
01-26-2017, 03:32 PM
Has anyone put an automatic bilge pump in an Olson 30? The owner of the boat I'm looking at says he pumps out the water when it rains. I wouldn't be close enough to the boat to warrant a drive every time it rains. If you have done this ... what was your solution? Open to suggestions from other informed owners of course ... Also I tend to think this would be quite the smart thing to do for a single handed sailor: if you're bucketing water out you can't do much anything else to fix the problem.

Also to close on dry storage ... my only options are BYC and Santa Cruz? Or is Alameda still open (well the crane is down based on latest posts so not sure it's a viable option anyway).

svShearwater
01-26-2017, 05:36 PM
You may be overthinking this one. I see two real possibilities. First, if you are serious about SHTP in 2018 then you WILL be at the boat regularly and a little rain water in between visits won't hurt anything. It is a boat after all. The other option is the rain entry point is so generous that you can easily do something about it to make is reasonable.

I can't see any real possibility that your boat could take on a meaningful amount of water from rainwater during the time you are prepping for SHTP. Besides, you live in California. It ain't the tropics.

That said, installing an electric bilge pump is pretty easy and can be done to virtually any boat. Bucket versus electric pump? Does an O30 have a bilge sump? I'm assuming it doesn't, in which case when you are sailing, the water is going to slosh all over the place and no pump will be useful. Neither will a bucket. You'll be using a sponge. We put a hole in our foredeck on Day 4 going to Hawaii last summer. We bailed 5 buckets of water a day. It wasn't fun, but no electric or manual pump was helpful. Our "bilge" is the equivalent of a flattish plate, so we had a 1/2" of water everywhere. Not something pumps are good at.

Last comment. If you don't have an engine with an alternator, you won't get much out of an electric bilge pump without draining the battery.

CRC1965
01-26-2017, 05:52 PM
+2 on sponges. +3 on a dehumidifier if you can get it to the boat......its changes everything. Get a very large one. The boat will smell better wet sails will dry ........

jamottep
01-26-2017, 09:06 PM
Thanks ... all makes sense ...

Tchoupitoulas
01-30-2017, 10:21 AM
Well this is a little late in the game but things change. How about a previous SHTP winner?
I was planning to race Starbuck in the SSS singlehanded series this year before putting her up for sale to find something smaller. But I had to miss the Fiasco and now the Corinthian probably as well. Members here can likely tell you more about the boat and history than I but if you want to take a look let me know.
Stephen
2119

Tchoupitoulas
01-30-2017, 10:24 AM
2120
Greg starting SHTP in 2000.

jamottep
01-30-2017, 07:22 PM
Well this is a little late in the game

Man that was close, real close. But yes too late now ... Double Espresso changed hands Sunday.

jamottep
01-30-2017, 07:24 PM
Need a life raft and life jacket, jack lines and harness/tether.

Tchoupitoulas
01-30-2017, 10:38 PM
Congrats on the new boat. You're gonna love it.

jamottep
01-31-2017, 07:29 PM
This is ... overwhelming. My wife is already pissed at all the sailing stuff I brought back and it's not even all of it yet.

Done:
Titles transferred: boat + trailer
SCYC dry slip transfer: in process


To do:
Will need parking sticker
Find room to store everything.
Get a gas can, TC-W3 oil and a doser. Fill that up so I can fill the outboard tank to exit/enter SC harbor safely.
Get insurance. BoatUS just quoted 450.
Get life jacket, jack lines, tether. Any suggestions?

Also: check everything, read manuals, test everything, re-register EPIRB.

Oh ... and sail ... and learn how to hoist the boat in and out of the water.

I'm taking it one by one ...

Oceanslogic
01-31-2017, 09:05 PM
Very nice!
Congrats on your O30! The class website is a nice resource on rig tune...sail trim etc...olson30.org
Hope to see you out on the water!

jamottep
02-02-2017, 11:05 PM
Well, the wheels are in motion, maybe I'll turn this thread into a chronicle of my slow progress. I find solace in trying to remember what I have done and not focus on what needs to be done.

Making headway ... for the past week I've been re-organizing closets around the house so I can plop things in an orderly fashion out of view. No idea how I'll store the (racing) main; that thing is a little too long!
I've started the process to re-register the EPIRB that's on the boat.
I've been looking at insurance and it looks like Farmers might be the way to go. They're asking about $400.
The dry slip transfer should complete Sunday, when I plan to be at the boat.
And I'm starting checklists ...

AZ Sailor
02-03-2017, 09:41 AM
And I'm starting checklists ...

Checklists rule.

About a year ago I sat down and started a master check list of everything I needed to do in terms of equipment adds/upgrades, as well as training and other accomplishments, to be ready to sail to Hawaii. The list continues to serve me well in the transition from planning to cruise to Hilo from San Diego in 2017 to planning to race to Kauai from SF in 2018. I use it to both keep track of what needs to be done, as well as what I've now completed. Each time I finish an item, I don't delete it from the list, I highlight it in yellow. Uncompleted mission-critical items are highlighted in blue. Uncompleted nice but not critical items are not highlighted. And the list itself evolves. One thing I have yet to do is systematically go through the RRC to make sure I've got all missing required equipment on the list.

Besides "to do" check lists, think about procedural checklists. The current boat is more complex than the one she replaced, so early on I developed a "Getting Underway Checklist". It's an outline with categories, some sub categories, and individual tasks than runs two pages, double spaced. Sounds stupid, but after almost two years of regularly sailing this boat, I still try to remember to scan through it before casting off. If I don't, there's often some little thing I'll have missed.

Recommended reading: "The Checklist Manifesto" by Dr. Atul Gawande. In the words of one reviewer it "shows what the simple idea of the checklist reveals about the complexity of our lives and how we can deal with it." Basic concept, whether running an operating room, flying a plane, or anything else complex and critical, let's at least get the stupid stuff right.

Your boat is very different than mine, but if you want copies of my checklists, feel free to ping me at lee dot johnson at q dot com.

Cheers,

Lee

AlanH
02-03-2017, 07:54 PM
Man that was close, real close. But yes too late now ... Double Espresso changed hands Sunday.

Nice!~ congratulations!

jamottep
02-03-2017, 11:35 PM
Checklists rule.

What I have so far ...

The checklist for things I have to do so I can sail that boat for the first time ...
The checklist of things to buy ...
The checklist of all the boat systems and equipment I need to go over, identify operating procedures, understand maintenance requirements, define back up plans for ... I'm sure these checklists will generate a few more ...

I feel good so far about having chosen a boat that came well prepared.

A few things I did today: organize manuals in a folder, review some of the manuals, initiated the VHF MMSI transfer, randomly researched items (ULV laptop), downloaded OpenCpn and a few charts (poked around for a few minutes), continued researching boat insurance. Slow progress. Relax ... don't become an angry old salt ...

Really big next step is ... first sail in Santa Cruz. I don't think that's for this weekend as the boat is not yet insured.

I'm starting to feel the excitement, the rawness of what I'm embarking on. I don't really find much pleasure in all that preparation stuff but the thought of being out there, bobbing around on oceans, that's moving my soul ... Or maybe I'm a romantic and once I'll be out there for a couple of days I'll go back to day dreaming. There's only one way to find out ...

Daydreamer
02-04-2017, 10:35 AM
Congratulations on your new ride!!

If the previous owner hasn't walked you thought the hoist procedure and actually launch and retrieve, i think that it would be a good idea to have someone there with you who has actually done it.

Get a copy of the MER list here; http://sfbaysss.org/main/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/US_SER_2016-with-NCORC-modifications.pdf
There will also be additional requirements for LongPac, TransPac, such as additional flares, e-rudder / steering, power supply and charging. Yep, lists.

Set your goals , but don't get too hung up on deadlines. Things seem to me to take much longer to accomplish than expected.

Don't bother trying to hide things from your wife, she will find out! Also, don't neglect her so she doesn't resent your sailing. Make sure she feels special:)

Sail as much as you can!!!

Just my .02

BobJ
02-04-2017, 10:56 AM
The Daydreamer offers wisdom.

Most spouses don't understand why you'd want to sail to Hawaii by yourself. The promise of a vacation in Kauai for them is not enough. The months of boat prep time are the hardest, especially if you have kids. It was a major strain on our marriage - it's been ten years since my first SHTP and it still comes up.

I can't offer much advice because I clearly didn't handle it well, but Daydreamer is on the right track.

Lanikai
02-04-2017, 05:10 PM
Checking my own checklists, I may tick this one off pretty soon (and figure PJ may have it on his lists):
PLB or EPIRB?
As far as I can tell the advantages of the EPIRB are automatic activation and longer transmit time. Otherwise, a floating PLB like Resculink+ appears to be a better choice in every respect, at least for the near-shore singlehander: wearability, portability when crewing on other boats, usability on shore (skiing/hiking/etc), cost.

The only scenario I can image where an EPIRB is superior is if I become unconscious or severely physically impaired while still aboard and the boat sinks just enough for the EPIRB to active, but stills stay afloat long enough that I'm not pulled down with the ship until help arrives. Seems unlikely.

What say ye wise council?

pogen
02-04-2017, 09:24 PM
If you are prepping for Hawaii use the SHTP equipment list. There is a lot of overlap with the usual list, but I'm sure that a full-on EPIRB is required. The EPIRB battery goes for days, much longer than a PLB. There are some other things as well. If the boat was already set up for SHTP you should be ahead of the game on a lot of things like the e-rudder.

One big issue will be energy management and budget. It is a very good thing to get a reliable/precise battery meter so you can measure all the loads for the budget. Start on this early so you can plan out any upgrades (solar, bigger alternator etc.) well ahead of time.

Contrary to some race winners may tell you, a voltmeter is very helpful!

DaveH
02-04-2017, 09:46 PM
Since we are speaking of the SHTP, here is what the rule currently states [per 2016];
4.46
A 406 MHz EPIRB, including a battery with expiration date no earlier than July 23, 2016, and evidence of current registration with the U.S. National
Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA). The MMSI number to supplied to the Race Committee. A Personal Locator Beacon (PLB) may also be carried, but it does not satisfy this requirement.

There is are very good reasons for this, particularly in a situation where you are far from shore and rescue could be more that 24hrs away.
Mostly it boils down to signal strength and duration.
Odds are not that great of a small PLB's signal being picked up on the first pass in an area of limited sat coverage, particularly if you have it partially submerged on the corner of your life jacket.
You can maybe expect your PLB battery to transmit a maximum of 24hrs; larger EPIRB's are rated to at least double that.

While there are, I suppose, scenarios where the self activation matters, it's much more likely you would be activating it yourself, whether you are abandoning to a life raft or due to injury or illness.

All of that said, I carry both... but I assume the PLB is mostly useful within Helicopter range [~100miles offshore]

FWIW.

DH

jamottep
02-04-2017, 10:53 PM
Thanks for the advice. The boat came with an EPIRB and I've started the process to transfer it to me.
Yes ... This adventure should enhance our marriage. I'll have to think how!
Some progress today: I built a long shelf in the garage to store the main sail and other long items; that's a winner for the wife ... I continued to go through stuff and generally get organized. There are 15 sails to check; some originals! I think that's it and tomorrow will be my first visit to my boat, not sailing yet. The previous owner should meet me for a practice hoist in and out.
Sweet dreams ...

jamottep
02-05-2017, 09:55 PM
First day at the boat. A few things done:

1. Slip rental agreement;
2. Parking sticker;
3. More sails brought back home for storage/inspection, along with a few other things;
4. Did one practice "hoist" run with previous owner, moving the trailer with the "tug" and using the hoist to put the boat in and out of the water;
5. Tested the engine (the engine is stored in the boat, the mounting bracket is very far out, not an easy task);
6. Poked at things in and around the boat.

I spent 6 hrs at the boat and small progress was made. If I can get the insurance nailed this coming week and I find the time to buy the "legal" stuff (flares, flags, horn, life jacket, etc.), I'll go back next weekend and go for a sail. The channel is still mostly close.

I'd like to wash the boat inside out too ...

The Smokester
02-06-2017, 10:18 AM
Just to note: The self releasing and activating option for an EPIRB was not required for the SHTP2016.

Also, the requirements for Longpac2015 and SHTP2016 were not identical and not fully overlapping. So check.

BobJ
02-06-2017, 11:32 AM
Per your NOAA EPIRB registration form, Category I is automatic deployment. Category II is manual deployment. Both are EPIRB's.

On our smaller boats, Category I's have been known to activate if they get super-wet (which happens). Category II's can too, but they must be out of their holder first. I decided a Category II mounted in an accessible (but dry) place below was the best option on my boat. Watch out for the magnet in the Cat. II's holder if you put it anywhere near a compass.

LongPac can be raced double-handed so its rules follow the other ocean races (with some additions).

Lanikai
02-06-2017, 01:41 PM
Since we are speaking of the SHTP.... ... but I assume the PLB is mostly useful within Helicopter range [~100miles offshore]

Thanks, Dave, that sums it up. PLB for me, for now, as I'm only looking at Farallones/HMB/Drake's. EPIRB for SHTP & LongPac.

jamottep
02-06-2017, 11:46 PM
EPIRB and MMSI transferred ...

Bought a gas can and built a wood block to lock the trailer in place (the boat is butt heavy apparently and we had the trailer tip over when we were both on the back of the boat checking the engine bracket).

I continued researching insurance and at this time it looks like an "agreed value" policy with BoatUS is the best choice. It's $389 and the maximum agreed to value I could get was $13,700, nothing to call home about. Don't know if this as good as it gets or if I should keep digging.

Wylieguy
02-07-2017, 01:29 PM
BOAT US rents Epirbs ($65/week) and PLBs ($45/week). The unit is registered to you for the rental time. I've rented EPIRBs for the LongPac and the PacCup. A PLB makes sense to own if you're going to do OYRA/SSS Ocean/BAMA races where it will meet the requirement, but if you're going to do 1 LonPac and/or 1 Hawaii race, renting an EPIRB makes more sense since the unit is always up-to-date. It comes in a sealed case with return postage.

jamottep
02-12-2017, 08:34 PM
All right ... some minor progress ...

Thanks to David for the de-humidifier. I installed it today.
I inspected 5 of the 14 sails. Some looked ok and some need light repair (tiny tear, pin holes, the worst is the old #1 jib). I bought a bit of tape and will see what I can do.
I bought a used life jacket, a crotch strap, a tether, a gas can.
I installed a wood block to prevent the trailer from tripping when working at the tip end of the stern.
We (read my wife and I) gave the interior a bit of a clean (not that it was dirty but we freshen it up a bit), emptied the bilge again.
I got insurance from BoatUS (agreed to value with the best possible, which was $13,700 for this boat).

I think that's it ...

I noticed a couple dings on the port bow, an hairline crack between the hull and keel (and another one in front).

Things I'm working on next: making sure the boat has all the legally required equipment, look into operation of auto-tiller, sail ...

It's all good ... can't wait for the harbor entrance to clear!

Wylieguy
02-12-2017, 10:16 PM
Okay, hairline crack between hull & keel? Did you have a buyer's survey prior to purchasing the boat? If so, did that survey note the crack? If not, consider a hull survey now.

Have you inspected the keel bolts to ensure they are torqued correctly? Checked for corrosion? What do the bolt tops and nuts look like? Any rusty "bleeding?"

Has the keel struck something - evidence of repair to keel? - that might have caused the crack? If the boat is on a trailer, has it been dropped hard when being hoisted off and on?

Although it's a boat older than yours, a friend has just completed a keel bolt job on his boat. An insurance survey indicated problems with the keel bolts. Cracks/separation indicated at the keel/hull joint. Several bolts were almost gone. Several others down to "marginal." And, yes, he does race the boat on the ocean. And, yes I've crewed on that boat - but not out on the ocean.

Steevee
02-13-2017, 09:36 AM
...an hairline crack between the hull and keel (and another one in front).

+1 what Wylie said. Definitely check the keel bolts. Any crack below the water line would make me nervous.
Chances are that she would probably make to Hawaii, but why take chances.

Edit: It's not uncommon to see these kind of cracks and it is most likely just cosmetic. Just do a further investigation.

BobJ
02-13-2017, 10:37 AM
With the caveat that none of us are surveyors, I'll agree with Steevee. Seeing a hairline crack at the keel-to-sump (or hull) joint is not that unusual, especially as the bottom paint gets thin. Just walk around a yard and look at some boats. The time to get concerned is if there's movement. With the boat blocked up, if you can grab the keel and move it side-to-side, it's a problem. This is not my opinion - it's what yard managers have told me.

I have Rags' keel bolts torqued to factory spec's every 2-3 years. The last time it was a harder to get them tight. Next haul-out we'll remove each nut and inspect everything, and replace the washers with a larger diameter.

jamottep
02-13-2017, 11:28 AM
Edit: It's not uncommon to see these kind of cracks and it is most likely just cosmetic. Just do a further investigation.

According to the previous owner that's what is is. I'll check the bolts again but when we looked at them everything was looking good. Certainly no rust. No survey either. There was no evidence of damage to the keel. I google'd Olson 30 keel bolt torque and couldn't find a final answer on that topic.

http://www.olson30.org/forum/topic/keel-bold-nut/

I'll wiggle the keel next time I hoist the boat.

Wylieguy
02-13-2017, 12:37 PM
The reason to use a marine surveyor is that person is trained (okay, I know just about anyone can hang out a "Survey" sign - but I can suggest a good one) to not only take a look, but test. For instance, a deck or hull can "look good" but a surveyor with a hammer might find soft spots, even where the surface seems solid. I suggest that just "looking" at the keel bolts isn't enough. If nothing else, put a wrench on the bolts and see if you can move them. If so, get a pro to address the issue.

Critter
02-13-2017, 04:04 PM
I google'd Olson 30 keel bolt torque and couldn't find a final answer.
I could be wrong about this, but I believe the proper torque is determined by the bolt diameter. It should be possible to look it up in a general hardware reference. That's what I did a few years back. Maybe I went a touch low on the torque because after all I was squeezing down on fiberglass, not steel.
Max

jamottep
02-18-2017, 08:38 PM
There isn't so much happening these days. I have been buying things here and there.

I went to the boat today. A few things I did:

1. Emptied the bilge again and the dehumidifier bucket;
2. Scraped the keel botl/nuts as much as I could with the brush I had so I could take good pictures. More on that ...
3. Installed the second battery. It seemed to work.
4. Followed cables, got lost and moved onto something else.
5. Installed fed. reqs. placards.
6. Replaced a strap of velcro hook, which helps hold the nav. table dodger in place.
7. Met a few pleasant folks.
8. Took pictures for the insurance self-survey.
9. Gave all turnbuckles a twist and they moved softly.
10. Put the new flares in the "distress signal" box.

I think that's it ... not much when I look at the list for 5 hrs spent there. Next time I go there I think I'll want to start playing with my laptop, the instruments and the auto-tiller.

jamottep
02-18-2017, 10:23 PM
About the keel ... here's what I've observed:

1. The forward bottom tip of the keel was repaired.
2. There is a small crack at the front and a dip at the back, in addition to the hairline crack on the starboard side.
3. The bolt/nuts seem to have been epoxied in place (my guess on the epoxy). See attached picture. So I can't give them a turn and check torque, not without making them free.
4. Folks at the yard (sailors) had a look at the keel and said all is good ... just need gel coat work if I insist. Someone went inside and checked the nuts and thought it looked good (Really? Are nuts epoxied in like that all the time).
5. One guy also said the keel on the Olson 30 is on a stubby, and there is no crack at the stubby mark.
6. Ah the joy of boat ownership: what will fail next?

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BobJ
02-18-2017, 11:25 PM
The one odd nut is, well, odd. But there was probably a reason for it. Anyway, if the keel was gonna fall off it would have done it in the last Pacific Cup.

The Olson 30 is a sweet-sailing boat. Look for every opportunity to just get out and sail it, before this other stuff psyches you out.

jamottep
02-19-2017, 06:57 PM
Look for every opportunity to just get out and sail it, before this other stuff psyches you out.

Yep, as soon as the channel clears ...

I visited the boat again today and mostly spent my time connecting a laptop to the instruments and tried to make "that" work. Well ... not much success. Here's what I did:

1. Turned instruments on, which includes an NMEA bus and Actisense USB connector;
2. Plugged the USB connector into the laptop;
3. Popped the Actisense NMEA reader and after a while figured a way to get it to read (just had to select proper baud rate).

The reader showed some data (NMEA 0183, which is weird because I think the instruments are recent), probably coming from the wind vane and hull transducer (speed, depth, temp). There are two compasses too but I don't know if they make it to the NMEA bus. There's also the AIS from the VHF, which I didn't try.

The big question is how does this all integrate nicely into one piece of SW. Is there a piece of SW that does it all out there? OpenSource? I tried OpenCpn but I couldn't figure that part out. The SW should probably also take in weather forecast.

Disclaimer: I certainly wasn't methodical ... I just tried to "plug and play" and I didn't get very far ...

Good find: with the rain I discovered a leak at the stern hatch hinges (small bolt/nut). And now I get to learn about using sealants. My research suggests that I should go the way of butyl tape. And these guys sell some that's supposedly been tested (and of course all the rest is not good enough). Wow ... $50 for two rolls ...
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/butyl_tape

Oh, and I signed up for the dry storage wait list in Santa Cruz, which happens to be about 5 years long (I'm #29 or so). It costs $100 and being that I'm down to 11.x months I can't see me stay there.

Daydreamer
02-20-2017, 12:08 AM
The butyl tape from mainesail works well and the two rolls goes a long way. 're-tighten everything later as the tape compresses.
3M 4200 is good for bedding hardware too. My biggest complaint is the stuff sets up under the cap and I wind up poking holes in the tube to get more out later.

AZ Sailor
02-20-2017, 08:11 PM
The big question is how does this all integrate nicely into one piece of SW. Is there a piece of SW that does it all out there?

I doubt it. Too many different instruments, boats, laptops, and user preferences. To say nothing of the welter of proprietary network protocols pushed by the instrument manufacturers. Just spent the weekend getting a new laptop dialed into the various boat functions the old laptop had done. A lot of trial and error. It's a Windows 10 machine and Device Manager is where I spent a whole lot of time trying to get the machine to recognize and accept input from GPS, AIS, and also talk to and listen to the Pactor modem -- all through different serial-to-USB processes. The Pactor modem, for example, has one USB plug into the computer, and creates two serial ports in Device Manager, only one of which seems to matter to Airmail (the software program that gets you email, GRIB files, and weather fax maps via SailMail/SailDocs over an SSB or sat phone).

It's all doable, because you are just looking to solve one boat. It's maddening while you are doing it. Any number of times it would seem that things were all working, and on the next try it all went to hell. The goal is to find a protocol for the instruments and computer you are using that is consistently repeatable -- and then document it for yourself so that when you are back trying to get a weather fax for the first time in a month or two you don't have to reinvent the wheel.

And ditto on BobJ's remark: sail the boat. This kind of stuff should never be the focus of attention when the weather is good.

pogen
02-21-2017, 11:33 AM
On the software front, you should definitely get the free program NavMonPC, it is a fantastic debug tool and also very good for enroute.

http://www.navmonpc.com/

If you have a hardware NMEA/AIS multiplexer and this program and OpenCPN, you can go anywhere. OpenCPN can even integrate radar signals. OpenCPN also displays GRIBS. And OpenCPN also has a routing module that uses your polars (although I never got it to work, mostly due to lack of time. )

I did Transpac and Longpac with just these free programs, along with the satphone email program.

todd22123
02-21-2017, 07:37 PM
About the keel ... here's what I've observed:

1. The forward bottom tip of the keel was repaired.
2. There is a small crack at the front and a dip at the back, in addition to the hairline crack on the starboard side.
3. The bolt/nuts seem to have been epoxied in place (my guess on the epoxy). See attached picture. So I can't give them a turn and check torque, not without making them free.
4. Folks at the yard (sailors) had a look at the keel and said all is good ... just need gel coat work if I insist. Someone went inside and checked the nuts and thought it looked good (Really? Are nuts epoxied in like that all the time).
5. One guy also said the keel on the Olson 30 is on a stubby, and there is no crack at the stubby mark.
6. Ah the joy of boat ownership: what will fail next?



RE: #5, there are two different places to look for cracks. At the boat to stubby and at the stubby to keel. Small cracks on the outside are not necessarily a problem. The amount of flexing of keel when shook suspended in a hoist is impressive. Quite a bit of flexing can be normal. I put a few marks on your photo where to look for cracks developing and expanding. I had a keel problem, so I have seen these. My boat actually developed a leak, since repaired. The cracks that you would see from the inside are easily visible. You have a few small cracks, marked on the photo. If it doesn't leak after a hard sail in some steep chop, it will probably be fine. I guess the previous owner may have epoxied the keel bolts to prevent water going down and around the bolts. This is not standard, but I can imagine why someone would think to do that.

2172

BobJ
02-22-2017, 03:13 PM
On the software front, you should definitely get the free program NavMonPC, it is a fantastic debug tool and also very good for enroute.

http://www.navmonpc.com/

If you have a hardware NMEA/AIS multiplexer and this program and OpenCPN, you can go anywhere. OpenCPN can even integrate radar signals. OpenCPN also displays GRIBS. And OpenCPN also has a routing module that uses your polars (although I never got it to work, mostly due to lack of time. )

I did Transpac and Longpac with just these free programs, along with the satphone email program.

You reminded me that I have this Brookhouse mux. The digital display was an option and can be plugged into the mux to help diagnose issues. I ended up not using it and now Rags is almost entirely NMEA 2000. Will sell for a modest contribution to the boat kitty.

2183

AlanH
02-23-2017, 12:12 PM
How old is that Olson 30? 30 years? 35? If something was built badly and was going to break, don't you think it would have done so, already? That doesn't mean that you shouldn't look over things carefully, but if a couple of boat repair pros say "it's fine" then....

Regarding the electronics...you should do what makes you happy. If muddling with computers and signals and whatnot makes you happy, then you should do what makes you happy. But if it were me and I couldn't sail the boat, yet, I would go over all the rigging. Instead of paying money for more electronic widgets right now, I might replace some running rigging. I would take the sails off and lay them out on the grass (when it's not an absolute deluge from the sky) and inspect them. I would take the sails that needed some work to a sailmaker. I would fire up the outboard and putt-putt around the harbor a little bit to make sure that it works and pee's out cooling water. If it was a 4-cycle and I didn't know when it had last been serviced, I might take it home and do that...or give it to someone who can service it. I"d make sure the VHF radio works. If there's an autopilot, I'd make sure that works, and will steer the boat in a straight line while putt-putting around the lower harbor.

But that's just me. You should do what makes you happy.

jamottep
02-23-2017, 10:37 PM
So ... no repair pro has checked the keel ... only old salts ... It is obvious that something happened to the keel. I'm going to monitor, maybe take close up pictures to come back to 6 months later and compare.

All good suggestions and I've done pretty much everything you describe. I just keep forgetting the auto-tiller. The rigging was re-done a little over year ago.

At this time I really want to get on the water ... maybe I'll satisfy myself with puttering around the harbor ... Some say it could take up to April for the channel entrance to clear ...

There's gelcoat repair and more sail repair/checks still waiting for me ... I just taped my first micro tear on a spinnaker, right at the edge of the luff tape. Not sure it'll last. The gelcoat repair I don't look forward to ...

2184
2185

Steevee
02-24-2017, 10:40 AM
Gel coat? That boat has been painted. Don't even worry about it. Maybe just brush on a couple layers of 2 part epoxy on the rail ding, sand it and paint it. The scuff on the hull...leave it alone unless you plan painting the whole boat. Go sailing.

WBChristie
02-24-2017, 10:56 AM
Ill give you a dollar


You reminded me that I have this Brookhouse mux. The digital display was an option and can be plugged into the mux to help diagnose issues. I ended up not using it and now Rags is almost entirely NMEA 2000. Will sell for a modest contribution to the boat kitty.

2183

AlanH
02-24-2017, 01:15 PM
If there was a "thumbs up" smiley, I'd used it here!

April? Really? Yuck.

Lanikai
02-24-2017, 01:59 PM
Like Steevee says, I wouldn't even bother with the 2nd one. You're bound to earn a couple more anyway.
For the one at the deck joint, just tear away the broken bits, sand it, and glob on some putty (Marinetex is nice, but the cheaper polyester stuff will also do just fine), then sand the glob after it cures. You could leave it as is, but personally I'd spend the 15 minutes on that one because it looks like a potential snag or tear hazard to lines, sails, and hands.

pogen
02-24-2017, 04:34 PM
You reminded me that I have this Brookhouse mux. The digital display was an option and can be plugged into the mux to help diagnose issues. I ended up not using it and now Rags is almost entirely NMEA 2000. Will sell for a modest contribution to the boat kitty.

I have that same unit, it works quite well but you may have to pay some attention to signal levels and possibly not connect all the ground wires from signal sources... although it is very possible that some problems I had (and solved) were really due to noncompliant hardware from other manufacturers. If you monitor with NavMonPC you don't need the display, there are debug screens to see raw data from all ports.

jamottep
02-24-2017, 05:16 PM
Gel coat? That boat has been painted. Don't even worry about it. Maybe just brush on a couple layers of 2 part epoxy on the rail ding, sand it and paint it. The scuff on the hull...leave it alone unless you plan painting the whole boat. Go sailing.

Ah ... I guess I've learned something here ... How did you come to the conclusion the hull was painted?

Wylieguy
02-24-2017, 05:34 PM
For one thing the CF numbers have been painted over. Usually they're peeled off before a paint job.

todd22123
02-25-2017, 08:53 AM
RE: #5, there are two different places to look for cracks. At the boat to stubby and at the stubby to keel. Small cracks on the outside are not necessarily a problem. The amount of flexing of keel when shook suspended in a hoist is impressive. Quite a bit of flexing can be normal. I put a few marks on your photo where to look for cracks developing and expanding. I had a keel problem, so I have seen these. My boat actually developed a leak, since repaired. The cracks that you would see from the inside are easily visible. You have a few small cracks, marked on the photo. If it doesn't leak after a hard sail in some steep chop, it will probably be fine. I guess the previous owner may have epoxied the keel bolts to prevent water going down and around the bolts. This is not standard, but I can imagine why someone would think to do that.

2172

I found a few photos from when my boat was hauled to repair the keel. The boat had to be urgently hauled after developing a leak while sailing across the SF Bar for a few hours in 25 knot winds. No history of grounding, although I am not the original owner. Boat did spend a few years in Vermont where it was hauled out of the freezing lake in the winter and prepped for winter storage with antifreeze. First photo shows the leading edge of the keel. The staining is bilge water running out and drying after hauling the boat.
2186

The next photo is the trailing edge of the keel.
2187

The next photo shows cracking looking down into stubby toward the top of the keel. The cracking seen is mostly separation of secondary bonds of tabbing to hold floors into the stubby. These prevent the keel from flexing excessively.
2188

If the keel flexes too much, cracks can get bigger, leading to more flexing, and so on. This was repaired, most likely stronger than original, at Svendsen's. I got the sense from conversations with yard professionals, a surveyor, and a naval architect that this type of problem is more commonly seen in boats with a small keel foot print on the hull combined with a bulb. I speculate that this would be much less common in Olson 30, and clearly the cracks you see are nothing like this.

jamottep
02-25-2017, 11:41 PM
Oh, scary pictures! I'll keep an eye on my cracks. One guy at the yard said I should free the keel bolts/nuts from the resin because stainless steel could rust in an environment that is oxygen free. I'm on the fence.

Small update: I did putter around the harbor! A few fun things that happened: I forgot to open the fuel line so the engine was dying; when I hoisted the boat out of the water I forgot to bring the trailer! It felt good feeling stupid again; I'm back into learning mode.

I got to try the autopilot and docking. I need to try sculling, i.e. rowing with the rudder.

I did a quick rinse of the deck, I discovered corrosion in the nav table charging station. And the EPIRB tested OK.

Maybe next time if wind is very light I'll hoist the sails.

WBChristie
02-26-2017, 10:36 AM
ok, ok. 2 dollars.


You reminded me that I have this Brookhouse mux. The digital display was an option and can be plugged into the mux to help diagnose issues. I ended up not using it and now Rags is almost entirely NMEA 2000. Will sell for a modest contribution to the boat kitty.

2183

BobJ
02-26-2017, 10:44 AM
Pogs suggested I take it over to Blue Pelican, which I can do next Sunday.

So best offer by next Saturday night (that's not "too" modest). A buck or two is too modest :) I paid $350 for it, but that was five years ago.

BobsailsSF at Yahoo

WBChristie
02-26-2017, 04:05 PM
All kidding aside, what are you going to ask for it at Blue Pelican?


Pogs suggested I take it over to Blue Pelican, which I can do next Sunday.

So best offer by next Saturday night (that's not "too" modest). A buck or two is too modest :) I paid $350 for it, but that was five years ago.

BobsailsSF at Yahoo

Wylieguy
02-26-2017, 04:20 PM
Going back to the keel bolt photo and the epoxy. First I'd ask the previous owner about the epoxy - why it was sloshed on around the nuts. So far as I know, that's not how to keep them snugged down. Second, it appears there's corrosion at the base of the two nearest bolts - globs of reddish-brown stuff - maybe under the epoxy? And about that strange bolt on the right - it looks like it's been screwed on top of another bolt? There's something between its bottom and the fiberglass. While you're asking, ask about it.

Yes, stainless "corrodes" in oxygen-starved areas. Like aluminum or bronze, stainless steel oxidizes, but in an oxygen atmosphere this oxidation stops after a thin layer forms. The French love unpainted aluminum boats and the Coast Guard has stopped painting its aluminum hulled cutters. Looks ugly, but works. Look for rust streaks emanating from stainless fittings like stanchion bases, deck fittings, places like that on boats in the marina or yard. Periodically those fittings need to be removed, bolts, etc. replaced, and then rebedded. WM sells a cleaner to get the rust stains out - after you've taken care of the cause.

A friend just hauled his older boat for the annual bottom job; the keel wobbled badly. The yard discovered the stainless keel bolts had corroded to the point of being just "threads" - the bottom job turned into a keel bolt replacement job. There's not much oxygen where keel bolts live. That boat is signed up for the BAMA Farallones Race in March. It will be comforting to know the keel will probably stay on.

jamottep
02-26-2017, 11:11 PM
I found a survey on the USB drive I got from the previous owner. It says this about the keel, in March 2016:

The keel showed no evidence of major grounding but the keel to hull joined was noted fractured on its after section.
The keel’s trailing edge is in need of repair. Numerous dings and scrapes are noted. The keel to hull join on the after upper section is crazed. Monitor for possible developments. Repair as needed.

I guess then ... it's been like that for a while ... I'll monitor going forward ... no mention of keel bolts/nuts in the survey though.

jamottep
02-26-2017, 11:17 PM
Oh, and it felt good to go sailing again: I picked up a Merit 25 at the school and sailed the Redwood channel for a couple hours. Very satisfying!

AZ Sailor
02-27-2017, 11:51 AM
Sweet. Some of my earliest sailing, 25 years ago or so, was crewing on a Merit 25 in regattas on a big man-made lake north of Phoenix. Loved sailing on that boat. And it kind of got me pointed in this direction. I found the Bay area's Merit 25 fleet info on line, and read Paul Kamen's description of sailing Twilight Zone in the 1986 SHTP. I've been captivated by the idea of single handing to Hawaii ever since.

jamottep
02-27-2017, 08:13 PM
I heard Paul was the second crew on Double Espresso during its Pacific Cup bid.

OlyJeff
02-27-2017, 08:59 PM
I wonder if a checklist exist. Like all the steps needed to get ready. Lots to do and I imagine a year can go by fast.

BobJ
02-28-2017, 09:22 AM
All kidding aside, what are you going to ask for it at Blue Pelican?

Since it's in new condition, half of my cost = $175. Their consignment fee is 40-50% depending on the value.

So I'd take $100 for it, plus shipping (shipping is probably less than ten bucks). If you send me an e-mail I'll describe it in more detail. Brookhouse did some custom programming on it.

AZ Sailor
02-28-2017, 10:24 AM
I wonder if a checklist exist. Like all the steps needed to get ready. Lots to do and I imagine a year can go by fast.

A generic check list applicable to everyone could be extracted pretty easily, I think, from the 2016 RRC. I don't know when the 2018 RRC will post, but I wouldn't think it would require too many changes to the check list.

Anything more than that would be pretty boat-specific. I'm happy to send mine, if you want, but it is entirely specific to my boat (Valiant 32) and the level of equipment she came with (SSB, Pactor modem, Monitor wind vane, hydraulic below deck auto pilot, solar panels, masthead LED tri-color). While I didn't have to acquire any of that, big parts of my check list involve the setting up and learning the SSB stuff, installing and learning the Monitor wind vane, etc.

The Smokester
02-28-2017, 01:17 PM
I wonder if a checklist exist. Like all the steps needed to get ready. Lots to do and I imagine a year can go by fast.

Download the SHTP2016 Racing Rules and Conditions. Check off every sentence that you have accomplished. Add a task for every sentence you need to accomplish with its due date and estimated cost into a spread sheet. Estimate a schedule for each task to be finished at least by the due date. Add races and other test sails to the schedule. Identify a "critical path". Prioritize. Order long lead time parts and pullouts. Search for stuff at Blue Pelican and the Boat Show. This is your life for the foreseeable future. Get busy.

pogen
02-28-2017, 04:48 PM
Prepping for LongPac 2017 will get you ready for 2018 , and serve as your qualifier. Even if you don't make the prep deadline, or you DNC or DNF the race you will still be solidly oriented on what is involved. The Longpac MEL was in a tabular form that you might find a little easier to follow, the substance was the same.


Longpac docs are here: https://www.jibeset.net/JACKY000.php?RG=T005953377

OlyJeff
02-28-2017, 05:44 PM
A generic check list applicable to everyone could be extracted pretty easily, I think, from the 2016 RRC. I don't know when the 2018 RRC will post, but I wouldn't think it would require too many changes to the check list.

Anything more than that would be pretty boat-specific. I'm happy to send mine, if you want, but it is entirely specific to my boat (Valiant 32) and the level of equipment she came with (SSB, Pactor modem, Monitor wind vane, hydraulic below deck auto pilot, solar panels, masthead LED tri-color). While I didn't have to acquire any of that, big parts of my check list involve the setting up and learning the SSB stuff, installing and learning the Monitor wind vane, etc.

That's funny. This quote could describe me as well. Exactly the same equipment. Just a different boat.

OlyJeff
02-28-2017, 05:47 PM
Prepping for LongPac 2017 will get you ready for 2018 , and serve as your qualifier. Even if you don't make the prep deadline, or you DNC or DNF the race you will still be solidly oriented on what is involved. The Longpac MEL was in a tabular form that you might find a little easier to follow, the substance was the same.


Longpac docs are here: https://www.jibeset.net/JACKY000.php?RG=T005953377

The qualifier is more difficult for me as I'm in WA state.

pogen
02-28-2017, 05:53 PM
OK you will probably have to do your qualifier locally. Still I would advise to get it done this summer!

I prepped my boat 3 times for pacific races -- Pac Cup 2012, LongPac 2015 and SHTP 2016, and you would think that the 2nd and 3rd would be no problem, but actually they were both a ton of work each...

Steevee
03-01-2017, 12:22 PM
I prepped my boat 3 times for pacific races -- Pac Cup 2012, LongPac 2015 and SHTP 2016, and you would think that the 2nd and 3rd would be no problem, but actually they were both a ton of work each...

I'm starting to feel like Ray Liotto's character in Good Fellas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf8twMPk3Ps

svShearwater
03-01-2017, 12:34 PM
The qualifier is more difficult for me as I'm in WA state.

I've given some thought about doing a qualifier from the PNW. It's not so bad. Get yourself up to Neah Bay, then 200nm out, 200nm back. Pick a reasonable weather window, which shouldn't be too hard to find in the summer. The plus of doing it on your on rather than Longpac is you can modify your start date to get "appropriate" conditions. You define appropriate. Obviously, you don't want to drift at 1 knot for 400nm and you don't want a storm either. Somewhere in between.

svShearwater
03-01-2017, 12:46 PM
I wonder if a checklist exist. Like all the steps needed to get ready. Lots to do and I imagine a year can go by fast.

We bought a boat in November of 2011 and sailed it across the Atlantic in July 2012. When my wife went to the boat in June, ahead of me, there were 300 items on her to do list. Preparing for an ocean crossing is all about the lists. Getting to the start line is truly the hardest part, because if you aren't proactive and diligent you will find yourself with the start approaching and an impossible volume of to do's to accomplish. This is the great thing about the qualifier. It forces you to get a lot of things done well ahead of time. Then you are left with roughly a year and a reasonable list. Not being ready for a qualifier a year in advance of the start puts you behind the curve in trying to get it all done in time.

pogen
03-01-2017, 02:32 PM
Well I didn't mean to scare anybody -- some of the things I did to prep for the 2nd and 3rd times were optional things I took on, "nice but not strictly necessary." And some people just seem to jump aboard, more or less. I guess I'm a little more paranoid than that. We did win the "best prepped boat" trophy in 2012 though.

svShearwater
03-01-2017, 03:20 PM
Well I didn't mean to scare anybody -- some of the things I did to prep for the 2nd and 3rd times were optional things I took on, "nice but not strictly necessary." And some people just seem to jump aboard, more or less. I guess I'm a little more paranoid than that. We did win the "best prepped boat" trophy in 2012 though.

Class of 2016 "best prepped boat" here. ;)

pogen
03-01-2017, 03:37 PM
Class of 2016 "best prepped boat" here. ;)

Oh on PacCup? If so congrats!

svShearwater
03-01-2017, 05:59 PM
Oh on PacCup? If so congrats!

Yep. And congrats to you as well.

OlyJeff
03-01-2017, 09:08 PM
Thanks for that post Shearwater. It's giving me something to think about.

pogen
03-02-2017, 12:08 PM
Yep. And congrats to you as well.

Thanks -- on our year, they told us that they really only considered DH boats for this award, as the work load is the same for any boat but DH has a lot less manpower, and are not semi-pro programs like some others. Very nice of them.

svShearwater
03-02-2017, 05:25 PM
Thanks -- on our year, they told us that they really only considered DH boats for this award, as the work load is the same for any boat but DH has a lot less manpower, and are not semi-pro programs like some others. Very nice of them.

That seems plausible. In 2014 it was awarded to a DH Santa Cruz 27.

jamottep
03-06-2017, 01:08 PM
I hear that the Santa Cruz harbor entrance channel may open up this coming weekend.

I went to the boat for a "quick" stop and looked at running rigging for the main and jib. I noticed chafe on both halyards so I cut the jib halyard short. I'll need to learn to put a whipping on that halyard so I bought waxed whipping twine.

The main halyard is spliced on the main's head grommet so I'll need to learn that too. I don't have the kit to do that so it's yet another little something I need to acquire.

I noticed the roller on one of the jib cars (MERRIMAN) is damaged (slightly deformed) but it looks like I can't repair that. It'll likely still work as it is ... I couldn't find one used on eBay ...

Dazzler
03-06-2017, 02:13 PM
Free advice, for what it's worth... One way of getting more life out of a halyard is to "end-for-end" the line. The tail end usually has had way less wear/chafe. Also, when buying new halyards, make them a little long. This makes it easier to end-for-end and/or cut some off.

Main halyards aren't usually spliced to the sail. That would be most unusual. Usually, they are spliced or knoted to a shackle. Depending on the type of line involved, splicing used line (e.g. double braid) is very difficult as the line has been "loaded" and the fibers stretched together. There has been a lot of testing and discussion about how much splices or knots reduce line strength. In my opinion this has been over emphasized. An advantage of knoting your main halyard to the halyard shackle is that then it's relatively easy to remove the shackle to either cut off a length or for end-for-ending. I have successfully used a version of "Fisherman's Bend" to attached halyard shackles.

As an aside, I once raced on a Columbia 50 out of Santa Barbara that had no shackles, snap shackles or otherwise. All halyards and sheets were tied on. I'm not sure why...

2203

jamottep
03-06-2017, 02:42 PM
Free advice, for what it's worth... One way of getting more life out of a halyard is to "end-for end" the line.
Main halyards aren't usually spliced to the sail.

End for end ... isn't it enough to cut 2-3 feet from the line (where the sail heads is attached)? Or is the idea that if I swap the line I get to use a part that's had little to no tension? It sounds like the best thing to do would be a combo of both approaches: cut 2-3 feet off a couple of times, swap, cut 2-3 feet off a couple of times?

Oops ... I meant shackle ... newbie ...

Dazzler
03-06-2017, 02:53 PM
End for end ... isn't it enough to cut 2-3 feet from the line (where the sail heads is attached)? Or is the idea that if I swap the line I get to use a part that's had little to no tension? It sounds like the best thing to do would be a combo of both approaches: cut 2-3 feet off a couple of times, swap, cut 2-3 feet off a couple of times?

Oops ... I meant shackle ... newbie ...

All depends on how much line you have to work with and maybe the condition of the line (i.e. chafe and UV exposure). Often there's not a lot extra to cut off.

Wylieguy
03-06-2017, 05:36 PM
Actually doing both makes a halyard a lot less expensive. Swapping ends gives you twice the life. Cutting off a few feet and then swapping four times the life? I could go on. For a few extra bucks on the initial purchase you save a bundle in the long run.

I use the shackle/fishermen's bend on my halyards -- at the moment HALYARD.

But, when I had my Santana 22 I tied all halyards with bowlines; all the sails came off at the end of the day. Bowlines with the knots on the jib/genoa sheets tied so the "smooth" side of the knot was inward -- slid past the shroud

without catching.

jamottep
03-06-2017, 05:43 PM
I'll have to verify this but I think the chafing may have been from the clutch.

Ragnar
03-06-2017, 05:45 PM
As an aside, I once raced on a Columbia 50 out of Santa Barbara that had no shackles, snap shackles or otherwise. All halyards and sheets were tied on. I'm not sure why...

2203

Shackles fail. I've had 2 fail. Not fun in mid-ocean having your only main or spinnaker halyard at the top of the mast. I've become a believer in knots after learning the hard way. Twice.

jamottep
03-06-2017, 06:27 PM
Shackles fail. I've had 2 fail. Not fun in mid-ocean having your only main or spinnaker halyard at the top of the mast. I've become a believer in knots after learning the hard way. Twice.

Just wondering ... Where a shackle failed ... Would the knot have failed too? I mean what makes the knot stronger? Was the shackle undersized?
Don't mean to highjack my own thread, which is now there to chronicle my slow progress :-)

When I said I was starting checklists ... Well, looking back those were not checklists ... I need to start planning ...

I won't be able to do the qualifier as right after I'm taking two weeks off for more Clipper training. I'm thinking of doing it just a few days before, starting Saturday and ending 4th of July. I'm asking around to see if anyone wants to tag along, for safety reasons.

Ragnar
03-06-2017, 06:46 PM
A typical snap shackle on a spin halyard failed one beautiful evening. Spinnaker goes into the water. Halyard stuck at top of mast, of course. Not sure if it was the spring pin or the swivel pin that went. The second one was a main halyard shackle that looked a lot like the photo above. A big screw-in pin worked its way out after a week at sea and somehow bent. Main came down, halyard lost at top of mast. At night of course.

Knots are slower when making sail changes, but if your sail is going to be up for a week, I'll take slow.

Also, I've seen shackles get destroyed by the stainless rings on spinnaker heads, if they still make them that way. Apparently the shackle stainless was not as hard as the ring stainless.

OlyJeff
03-06-2017, 08:34 PM
Don't mean to highjack my own thread, which is now there to chronicle my slow progress :-)

When I said I was starting checklists ... Well, looking back those were not checklists ... I need to start planning ...
.


I was wondering if you felt like your thread was highjacked. I have enjoyed it. :) keep sharing.

jamottep
03-07-2017, 11:51 AM
Renewed PHRF certificate!

I went here and noticed I'm not listed as a member but I paid the dues last year ... Who can I check with to confirm SSS membership status?

https://www.jibeset.net/JACKY000.php?RG=T039266395

jamottep
03-07-2017, 04:46 PM
On the topic of knot vs splice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLZUfPZbU3s

Seems pretty clear cut to me ...

Steevee
03-07-2017, 05:11 PM
[QUOTE]Seems pretty clear cut to me .../QUOTE]
No doubt...A splice will nearly give you the same strength as the line, where a knot is almost half as strong.
I think the reasoning for knots on halyards is ability to retie if you happen to chafe through. Simply cut and retie. You're not going to be putting breaking loads on your halyard, so the line breaking is not the issue, chafe is.
Personally I like eye splice on halyards. I just have enough length to cut off the old chafe.
I read somewhere that some guys put axle grease on the splice and sheave before the start of a race. Sounds messy but better than chafe. I'm sure there are more opinions on this.

Dazzler
03-07-2017, 10:28 PM
On the topic of knot vs splice: Seems pretty clear cut to me ...

Your mileage may vary. Good luck.

Wylieguy
03-08-2017, 12:25 PM
One of the reasons I like the fisherman's bend for halyard shackles is that there are 2 wraps around the shackle eye to spread load and chafe. An eye in the halyard only provides 1 loop and since it tends to be loose, I think can work more than a tightly tied fisherman's bend and chafe The more bearing surface, the less chafe. Check out a few boats on your dock. Those that just loop the mooring line's eye over the cleat vs. those that feed it thru and then over both horns.

The fisherman's bend is used to attach line to chain in ground tackle, so is a very strong knot. I don't think most of our boats' halyards face anything like YouTube test shows. I've never had a fisherman's bend even appear to slip and had to cut every one off because I couldn't untie it. The halyard tension on a Wyliecat is great for a 30 foot boat since the sail is essentially the size of a standard 30 footer's main and jenny.

I don't know about axle grease? It's important to match line diameter with sheave radius and size to avoid wear. And check the sheave surface to make sure it is smooth and not nicked. Sheaves wear out, too.

Steevee
03-08-2017, 12:42 PM
One of the reasons I like the fisherman's bend for halyard shackles is that there are 2 wraps around the shackle eye to spread load and chafe
Sounds like a plan to me. Just got a new main. I gonna try your way.
I don't think any of the halyards come close to breaking tension.

Critter
03-08-2017, 06:06 PM
I went here and noticed I'm not listed as a member but I paid the dues last year ... Who can I check with to confirm SSS membership status?
https://www.jibeset.net/JACKY000.php?RG=T039266395
SSS memberships all expire on Dec. 31. You need to sign up every year, as early as you plan to race.

jamottep
03-08-2017, 08:52 PM
SSS memberships all expire on Dec. 31. You need to sign up every year, as early as you plan to race.

I did:

J Jibeset Membership Welcome

Date: 12/23/16
Racer: Philippe Jamotte
Sail Number: 94061
Boat Name: JAMOTTE
SSS - Membership
Thank you for your 2017 SSS Membership and welcome aboard!

BobJ
03-08-2017, 11:47 PM
I went here and noticed I'm not listed as a member but I paid the dues last year ... Who can I check with to confirm SSS membership status?

https://www.jibeset.net/JACKY000.php?RG=T039266395

#180, near the bottom. (https://www.jibeset.net/memberlist00.php)

Critter
03-09-2017, 10:33 AM
I did:
J Jibeset Membership Welcome
Date: 12/23/16
Sorry! I thought you meant that you signed up earlier in 2016. I don't see you on the list either. In fact, I only see 9 members at Bob's link. That can't be right.

BobJ
03-09-2017, 10:49 AM
Click on "#180, near the bottom" not on the quoted jibeset link.

I assume this longer list includes those who signed up for SSS membership along with their Three Bridge Fiasco registration, plus the handful who signed up as members-only (not with race registration) in Philippe's link. Since he signed up for the 3BF, I'm guessing Philippe is in the first group.

hodgmo
03-09-2017, 11:26 AM
I'm looking forward to seeing the boats that enter this event: http://www.longueroute2018.com/

"On this occasion, Guy invites other sailors to join him on this passage, in the same state of mind as Bernard Moitessier. This is not a race, there is no rules, nor constraints or obligations, neither awards... Just the intimate return to have made a dream comes true and to have win against oneself. It is a return to true values, individual and human responsabilities of the sailor and the man. Freedom and serenity to be alone at sea.

Each sailor is responsible for his choice of boat, a cruiser or racer-cruiser or ocean-passage maker, no more than 52' able to perform ocean passages. Each one is free to communicate as he wishes, to display the arms of supporters, sponsors or patrons, and to give his own adventure the impact he wants. He can judge if he respects or not Bernard Moitessier's ideas in doing so... According to his ship and his equipment, each one is free to choice his starting date between June 18 and September 30th, from a port north of 45° North of Europe, or 41° North of America east coast, and for a return to a french port in north of 45° North to be indicated at a later date."

BobJ
03-09-2017, 12:56 PM
That's a bit much but I could see myself doing the Jester Challenge. Like our SHTP, it runs in even-numbered years. It alternates between a 1,250 nm race to the Azores and a 2,800 nm race to Newport, RI (both from Plymouth). It's for 20-30' boats so Rags would actually be at the top end. Like the "Longueroute" the Jester Challenge has very few rules:

"The Jester Challenge is run on a ‘gentlemanly basis’ within the following guidelines:
-for sailing vessels between 20 and 30 feet (including multi-hulls)
-for skippers who are over the age of 18 on the 15th May 2016
-human power is the only acceptable alternative propulsion to that of the wind: rowing, kedging or clubhauling, for instance, are permissible
-single-handed to Praia de Vitoria, Terceira
-one way
-stops allowed
-no time limit
-engines may be fitted but only used to charge batteries for equipment such as mobile telephones, steering and navigation systems. The sole exceptions to this, within the spirit of the Jester Challenge, would be the avoidance of an imminent ‘mayday’ situation; responding to a distress call from a fellow seafarer or when within the harbour limits of an intermediate port en route. If the use of an engine - or the acceptance of a powered tow from another vessel, whether a Jester Challenger or not - becomes necessary to meet, for instance, a personal time limit or, simply, to avoid a frustrating calm, then the details should be declared on arrival to fellow Jester Challengers. By common agreement - and using the coordinator as an arbitrator if there is no common agreement - the arrival order may then be amended.
-no entrance fees
-no inspections
-no regulations: skippers will be entirely responsible for the equipment they take, based on their own experience
-only hint of bureaucracy will be the signing of a form of indemnity accepting the skipper’s full duty of care for himself, his dependants and his fellow seafarers during his participation in the JAC 2016.
-skippers should ensure that they have the correct visa (if required) for entry into the Azores and any likely mid-way stop
-entries will be accepted up to (TBC - depending on the host yacht club)
Recommendations:
-a 500 mile, non-stop, single-handed voyage be made in the same vessel
-at least third party insurance be obtained

Prizes:
Not being a ‘race’ there is no official finishing order - there is of course a time of arrival - thus there are no prizes other than the personal satisfaction of having sailed fairly against peer vessels of a like construction, rig, size, skipper’s experience and so on; ie, a number of personal challenges within the whole.

John Margeson has kindly donated a Crown to be presented to the first skipper home who has, genuinely, built his own vessel."
.

jamottep
03-09-2017, 11:43 PM
I must admit that I'm little informed about Moitessier's life. The little I read, mostly related to his participation in the Golden globe race, I found fascinating. I very much like the idea of sailing around the world. I'm afraid I'm just a romantic and I will soon find out if I belong to the high seas. October will be my first real test, crossing the South Atlantic from Brazil to South Africa with the Clipper folks.
I hope all these little experiences I've setup for the next 18 months will allow me to make that vision real.

jamottep
03-12-2017, 10:18 PM
I bought Moitessier's book la longue route ... in French of course :-)

Ah, so today was my first day out on the water. And that was great. Except ... it took me two hours to leave the docks and another 90 minutes to clean things up when I got back ... darn ... time management will become essential if I want to sail! I was exhausted when I came back home, not because of the sailing (I barely pulled in 4 tacks in light wind); the nerves is what took a beating, that and working that engine. The Santa Cruz harbor is a busy place and passersby do stop to watch people fuss around with their boat. It makes me nervous and I make mistakes ... That'll all get better with time.

So I placed jacklines but I will need to think about how I position them. Right now I have them running inside the shrouds. I think I'm going to move them outside because they seem to interfere with other items on the deck. The problem is then there is nothing to stop me from "sliding" down all the way out the stern. The good thing: I used them! I was clipped even though the conditions were very calm: this is a habit I want to ingrain under my thick skull!

I got the #3 jib out to keep things easy and the boat was moving at a good clip (although I did not get over 5 kts and mostly around 2-4), mostly on the auto-tiller. Stowing sails proved to be an experience too. Being tired I did a poor job there. Lazyjacks are a temptation now.

It's amazing the time it takes to build new habits, even simple ones. For example to hoist the boat I use a lifting eye that screws on top of the keel. Well, I keep taking the lifting eye out of the cabin, slide it down that opening on the top deck to screw it on ... only to discover that I forgot to remove the floor board ... and so I go back inside the cabin to remove the floor board ... The good thing is: this time I didn't forget to get the trailer out when I hoisted the boat of the water. Instead I forgot to put a bucket of water at the bow to flatten the boat a bit and the boat ended up going down a little crooked, resting only on 5 of the 6 stanchions of the trailer. At that point I was running late and let that one slide ...

All in all I think I sailed a couple hours. I was telling my wife at dinner today: to hell all those preparations, I'm just going to leave the docks on Saturday morning and come back Sunday evening, only half jokingly!

On a separate track I've been trying to splice an eye ... and failing ... this old monkey doesn't learn quickly anymore apparently.

A picture:

2213

Steevee
03-13-2017, 07:40 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UghIS9xdiDw
This guy explains eye splicing simply...oh, and don't try to eye splice old line. It's nearly impossible and IMO not worth it. Just tie a knot.

Critter
03-13-2017, 01:40 PM
Philippe, there are many opinions about jacklines. I would actually recommend moving them even farther inboard than they are in your photo. If they're outside the shrouds they won't do much to keep you on the boat. I have padeyes each side of the companionway hatch; that keeps the jacklines well inboard and also keeps you from sliding too far aft. Anyway, most races prohibit mounting the jacklines in such a way that you could be dragged behind the boat.
It's true that they will occasionally hang up on a cabintop winch or on the lazy jibsheet when you try to go forward. I haven't found a solution for that except to try to develop patience.
Max

BobJ
03-13-2017, 02:02 PM
Similar to Max's boat - Rags' jacklines run inside the shrouds, along the edge of the main hatch (on each side) and down the back of the cabin trunk to folding pad eyes. When I'm at the helm I clip into a hard point on the centerline.

As Sled has suggested, a turn of your tether around the windward winch is also a good idea when it's rough, so you can't fall very far. At the start of the Silver Eagle race last year (inside the Bay), I lost my balance in the cockpit and my nose fetched up against the leeward primary. It happens.

The boat looks great and hey, you were out sailing on a gorgeous day while I was chained to my desk doing people's taxes. Don't be too hard on yourself.

jamottep
03-13-2017, 08:37 PM
Andrew Evans on his Olson 30 writes that he has them outside the shrouds:

"On my boat the shrouds are slightly inboard, so I run the jack lines outside of the shrouds and jib sheet, but inside the lifelines."

That last bit of "inside the lifelines" is puzzling: outside the lifelines, isn't that outside the boat?!?!?

With the jack lines inside the shrouds I have to walk up between the mast and shrouds and down to the life lines to keep a grip. It worked ok on a calm sea. Outside the lifelines would allow me to walk up holding the life line all the way to the bow pulpit. I'll have to see what works best in less ideal conditions.

Right now they run bow to stern cleats. There's really nothing to pass the jack lines through to prevent me from slipping all the way back. I could slip the jack line through the hand rail on the deck. Or I could put a shackle on the toe rail and pass it through that. I'm not sure either would be strong enough.

Thanks for the encouragements!

Steevee
03-14-2017, 08:05 AM
Here's a link that shares an opinion about jackilines http://www.wavetrain.net/techniques-a-tactics/712-safety-harness-dynamics-are-you-really-safer-tethered-to-your-boat
Bottom line is you want to stay on the boat. Since jacklines are required for the race install them as close to center line as possible and in such a way, if possible, to keep you from falling overboard. Even one who is in great shape and strong would be hard pressed being dragged at even 4 knots to pull themselves back onboard. Now add to that being alone, sleep deprived, cold and probably dehydrated...you probably only have about 5min before you're totally zapped of strength.
I'm sure you'll figure it out. I'm keeping my jacklines as close to center line as possible.
Edit: I fortunately have lots of hand holds on my boat as I go forward. I know this is more of a challenge on a boat like yours, but at least it looks as if your boat is set up to control most everything at the cockpit. I reef at the mast because I prefer it that way, so I'll be leaving the cockpit often.

sleddog
03-14-2017, 10:14 AM
Hey PJ,

If you are in the neighborhood tomorrow afternoon, Wed. come on by the Santa Cruz Harbor hoist for what we call "Prayer Meeting." Just a bunch of local sailors standing around, drinking a beer and having hotdogs while telling stories and gossip. Usually about 5 pm to 6:30. Howard S will be there with Yvonne, and I'll be there also. Both of us familiar with your boat, and on the SSS Forum. Howard has the small yellow catamaran near your boat in the boat yard. Ask anyone in attendance at Prayer Meeting to point us out. (Dennis runs the BBQ.)

Regards, skip AKA "sleddog"

jamottep
03-14-2017, 01:30 PM
Howard S will be there with Yvonne, and I'll be there also.

Thanks for the invite! And thanks for introducing me to the sailing community in Santa Cruz. It was nice being by the water and hearing everyone's stories.

jamottep
03-19-2017, 09:40 PM
Favorite quote in Moitessier's "la longue route": "... obeir a leurs voix interieures, sans quoi c'est le troupeau". I wonder how it translates ...

News from me ... I'll be off work in about 4 weeks so that'll give me more time. With all the engagements I've put in front of me I'm not sure what I want to do: look for work and pick up anything, just do my sailing for the next 1.5 years and see where that gets me, pivot and find work in another field. That middle option sounds really good. I hope to sail during the week now.

On a separate note the previous owner was stowing his mainsail by rolling it and, using sail ties, attaching it to the boom. It seemed to have been folded in two then rolled but I can't say I remember that part 100% right. Any idea how one does that? I tried last weekend and I couldn't a grip on it so I somehow flaked it and was barely able to close the mainsail cover :-)

Wylieguy
03-19-2017, 09:52 PM
There is a long string of posts relating to backlines, etc. two years ago, so some of what I'm writing is a rehash. If you're new, you might want to spend some time one evening going thru the archives. There's a wealth of information stashed there.

At 1998's Annual SSS Business meeting I was elected Commodore and my friend Harvey Schlaskjy was elected Treasurer. We had several officer meetings getting ready for 1999. Then there was the March 29, 1999 BAMA Farallones Race. It wasn't a particularly wild event, but there was a large sea running, with breaking waves on the Four Fathom Bank. Harvey and his partner were sailing their J/29 when, inside the Lightbucket, a large swell caught them and rolled the boat over until the mast was nearly in the water. The boom broke and both Harvey and his crew were thrown out of the boat. The crew was clipped onto the "high" side, so fetched up in the starboard lifelines and hung on. Harvey was clipped onto the "low" side and slid under the lifelines and into the water. His tether ran to the end of the cockpit where the jacklines were fastened. When the boat came back up and continued sailing, Harvey was dragged behind the boat at about 7 or 8 knots. His partner attempted to drag Harvey to the boat, but could not. So, he got busy trying to douse the sails, which was made difficult by the broken boom and other snarls. In the meantime Bruce Nesbitt in "Raspberries" was close behind and kept yelling for Harvey's partner to cut him loose so he could pick him up. Bruce also called the Coast Guard. Harvey continued to be dragged until the Coast Guard arrived.

Long story, short. Harvey drowned. It's thought his lifejacket did not inflate, but the inflatable lifejacket was lost when it was cut off him and the Coast Guard began an attempt to revive him.

The Coast Guard hearing ruled Harvey's death an accident with no further investigation required. He and his boat had all the required safety equipment, properly fitted according to the SIs. Since his lifejacket went missing during attempts to revive him, the Coast Guard did not know if it was in working order, but Bruce and others thought it had failed to inflate. Whether that would have made a difference is debatable.

The SSS decided to require jacklines be tethered no further aft than 6' feet from the transom. The idea was that if you found yourself in the water alongside your boat, you'd have a chance to grab the coaming or lifeline and hoist yourself back into the boat. Many of us carry some sort of ladder/"stirrup" rigged so we can get a foothold to help with getting back in. With a tiller pilot (auto helm), I keep a line under the tiller and draped over the coaming. The plan is to jerk the line and flip the tiller pilot off the tiller, allowing the boat to round up. It's an untested plan.

Staying in the boat is crucial. There are stories of single handers being tossed out and then tossed back in. Stories of single handers managing to drag themselves back in. They have happened. But staying in the boat is crucial (repeated sentiment). That's why I agree with Max and Bob about keeping jacklines as close to the center as possible.

Critter
03-20-2017, 09:46 AM
On a separate note the previous owner was stowing his mainsail by rolling it and, using sail ties, attaching it to the boom. It seemed to have been folded in two then rolled but I can't say I remember that part 100% right. Any idea how one does that?
Theoretically, if you roll the main from the middle, on your next hoist you can start the head in the luff groove and hoist it without unrolling. But only if the battens don't prevent you from rolling at such an angle that the head stays close to the tack.

jamottep
03-22-2017, 04:29 PM
Theoretically, if you roll the main from the middle

Oh man ... that's the thing ... I feel so inept ... that big mainsail was lying all over the deck and I couldn't figure out how I'd roll that thing. I tried to fold somewhere in the middle but it was still too big. I'd pinch it somehow and try to start rolling but it'd slip under me ... anyways ... moving on.

Wondering about weather routing ... I looked at the race rules and conditions for the SHTP 2016 and there wasn't specific mention of weather routing software. My guess is that they're not allowed because, unless developed by the singlehander, such SW amounts to external advice. It'd be nice to have it clearly stated. But ... the real conclusion is I need to learn:

1. Good old celestial navigation (in case all GPS die or I could go crazy and get a backups of backups of backups of ...);
2. Weather routing.

Anyone good suggestion of where to start with any of these, in the context of the run to Hawaii?

pogen
03-22-2017, 04:35 PM
Weather routing software on board is fine (e.g. Expedition, OpenCPN). Weather data from free onshore providers (NOAA, GRIBS, WxFAX, etc) is fine. Human advice from onshore or interpreted weather data you pay for after race start is prohibited.

Weather routing software is only as good as the wx data going in, and the polars you input, and how close you can really sail to them.

SeanRhone
03-23-2017, 11:17 AM
The qualifier is more difficult for me as I'm in WA state.


Try doing the qualifier in Charlotte NC :)

jamottep
03-23-2017, 11:24 PM
Second outing today. Left home at 2 and came back around 10. I was under way for about 3 hours. Winds at 14 knts, swell maybe 6-8 ft. A few tacks, a few gybes, no engine this time. Good because it didn't start after bouncing around for three hours!
Thankful for Evans, Chris and Seth on a Santa Cruz 27: they recommended a reef, pushed me off, helped me dock and, mmmmh, roll that mainsail!
I do need a second reef.
I can't​ say that living aboard would be great with all that heeling!
I wanted to try a headsail change but that'll be for another day.
Not as tired, less stupid mistakes ... Progress!

Used Navionics and Google maps:
2245

jamottep
03-29-2017, 11:21 PM
Interesting day ... Never had such an experience. The wind was very very light and changing. The swell was high enough that the boat was rocking and rolling, with the sails banging left and right. There were many times when I couldn't figure out where the wind was coming from. I'm sure there is a technique to sail these ULDBs in very very light wind and choppy seas but I haven't found it ... Going downwind was a misery ... Like 0 knts kind of misery.

The funny thing is that because the forecast was calling for a strong breeze (incl. small craft advisory) I went out with a reefed main and number 3.

I spent what seemed an eternity having the sails banging around, being mostly paralyzed. I'd never know what was going to happen next, as far as the sails moving around and the boat's movement. I pretty much sat there for what may have been a couple hours if not more. Very frustrating ... I could feel all the negativity come up from the inside ...

I had planned to do head sail changes and I couldn't muster to get on with it when all that was going on. Later in the afternoon all the boats came out of the harbor for the beer can race and it was nice to see all those boats. But they were moving and I wasn't ... I inched closer to shore and wind picked up; swell subsided significantly.

I decided to finally carry on with my head sail change, to at least achieve something today. I went down to a #4. I'm sure folks watching me must have been thinking I was nuts but I didn't feel confident to try with the # 2. I did it 4 times (3 to 4, 4 to 3, 3 to 4, 4 to 3). Nothing went as expected:

1. The spin and the jib halyards would get entangled and get stuck at the clutch, multiple times. Yes, I need to coil these nicely to avoid that. But I kept forgetting.
2. The first time I raised the # 4 I was all proud of myself and went to take pictures. That's when I realized that it had gone up without sliding into the foil ... it somehow had popped out. Ooops ... down it went. See second picture below.
3. I need to figure out how to bring the halyards with me to where I need them so I can initiate the hoist and avoid the problem described above.
4. A few times I forgot to move the second jib sheet to the new clew. Fun tacks ...
5. I wonder how all this would work out with a boat heeled 35 degrees or more, in a seaway. Being so tall and the boat not so big I think the only thing that makes sense for me is going 4WD. I've got knee pads for that.

I'll admit that I haven't made friend yet with how things are rigged. The jacklines are not working where they are; they get in the way of everything. I can see things snapping in the future. I need to continue to think about these.

Of course I realize that I will need to get over that paralysis. I find that a good description of myself lately is: fearful human ...

And as usual I continue to mess up the boat out and into the water process ... hitting the back stay and getting the boat off center on the trailer is becoming a habit it seems.

I had also taken a spinnaker with me to try that out ... It'll have to be for another day. Bottom line for today? The journey will be long ...

Looking at the main it doesn't look right ... If any of you could take a look at the picture below to let me know your thoughts I'd appreciate it. It doesn't show a nice flat luff to leech surface. And that's with barely any luff nor back stay tension.

22642265

Wylieguy
03-30-2017, 08:24 AM
It looks like the mainsail leech line is over tensioned. See how it's hooked over behind the numbers? And above and below. What does the leech look like below the picture?

It also looks like the downhaul needs to be tensioned until the "puckers" are smoothed out. Initially over tension, then ease the tension until it's correct.

Sailing in light wind takes time and skill and is often frustrating - but learning how to do it is important. If you're changing down in high winds, hoisting a "floating" headsail can be a major headache

About the jib. Are you using a pre-feeder? If so, is it adjusted correctly? Are you watching the sail as you hoist it? Sailing solo takes "eyes everywhere."

Steevee
03-30-2017, 12:09 PM
Sailing solo takes "eyes everywhere."
2266

jamottep
03-30-2017, 01:25 PM
About the jib. Are you using a pre-feeder? If so, is it adjusted correctly? Are you watching the sail as you hoist it? Sailing solo takes "eyes everywhere."

There is a pre-feeder. I'm not sure how to verify if it's adjusted properly; I'm assuming I should verify if the bolt rope doesn't jump out of the feeder. I think what happened is that the jib slid down enough, popped out of the foil (but not the pre-feeder because that I think I would have noticed) and I didn't notice. It didn't go too well this time but it was my first time and I've learned a few things.

Next adventure will be the spinnaker ... or maybe change job # 3 to # 2.

I must say I feel like I did something OK yesterday. With all the boats coming in after the beer can race there was a bit of a congestion going on in the channel/harbor. I came into the harbor under both sails at a good 5 knts. I found two boats were in the middle of the channel going about 1.5 knts, about head to stern. I couldn't imagine myself tacking around these two so I quickly dropped the jib. Then I passed them slowly and found myself under-powered. I hoisted the # 3 again (I did forget I had put a sail tie around it so it was a two step process, duh!) and carried on tacking upwind into the channel. I dropped the # 3 again, turned into the fairway to park alongside where the crane is and just as I make my way into the fairway a boat is being moved right where I was going to park (I suppose to prevent me going into where the boats are hoisted out of the water)! Now I'm downwind with my full main up headed for the docks or an unlucky boat. Ah! So I do a 360, drop the main and scull a little further. And voila ... marina acrobatics ... that or beginner's luck, as in, if that boat had not shown up I wouldn't have done a 360, which slowed me down, and maybe a gust would have propelled me a little too fast into the docks. Well then, thanks again ... I wonder if it's ever going to run out ... Isn't a sailor always a beginner?

jamottep
03-30-2017, 04:28 PM
How about running the jack lines like I show in the edited picture below and a shackle on the toe rail to stop fall short and keep it a little more snug in place?

2267

jamottep
04-01-2017, 09:46 PM
One more day out ... Light winds again, not as bad as the other day but for sure I'm not good at trimming for performance, read I'm slow :-)
Anyways, I did do another head sail change going from #3 to #2 and back down. Not as much went wrong as last time. Somehow though the jib sheets got under the jacklines. It is amazing though how everything that can go wrong will.
Jacklines remain a puzzle ... So I was a little lazy with the tether today.
Then I turned around to go home and was pondering flying the spinnaker. I finally decided that I didn't have to do it, I could just get ready for it. So I rigged the pole, brought the old 0.5 oz tri-radial on deck, rigged the sheets and then it was all there ready to go. So I popped it. But ... I had put stops in it, with the wrong knots, and the yarn didn't pop. The spinnaker was now 3 sausages ... So I brought it down, remove the stops and brought it up again. I didn't gybe it (I didn't have to but I don't think I wanted to either). It was all tentative at best ... It's a good thing it was a light wind day. Nothing broke and I'm happy.
Once again I forgot to bring the trailer back from the parking ... so I stood there with the boat up and no trailer. Fun times ...
2284

Critter
04-04-2017, 10:39 AM
Philippe, about your jib luff falling out of the foil: Maybe you solved the problem next time out since you didn't mention it, but I have that issue also. What I do is:
1. With the halyard clutch open and the jib started in the foil, pull the halyard (from above the jib) aft toward the mast. When I get close,
2. Release that bight of halyard and as quickly as I can take up the slack where the halyard exits the mast. Usually I can do this without the head of the jib falling very far. Hoist a few feet, so that the head has farther to fall. Then
3. Jump to behind the clutch and take up the slack again. Then close the clutch and hoist from the cockpit.
Not an elegant solution, but it works for me.
Max
PS: Wasn't it a great feeling to get the spinnaker flying?

AZ Sailor
04-04-2017, 03:21 PM
Jacklines remain a puzzle ...


I'm not familiar with the Olson 30, but on my last boat, a 28 footer, I didn't use jacklines. The boat was small enough that I could clip a standard 6' tether to a hard point at the base of the mast, and have the harness end draped into the cockpit. So, I could clip in before leaving the cockpit, and get forward of the mast on that first tether. I'd also clip a second tether to a slot in the toe rail, and drape it back towards the mast where I could reach it while on the first tether. If I wanted to all the way forward, I'd clip on the second tether, release the first, and go.

Plus, there was no way I'd ever end up in the water clipped to the first tether. Plus, when you're tethered to a hard point instead of a jackline, you can keep the tether tight while moving, keeping much better balance.

jamottep
04-04-2017, 10:00 PM
One step forward two steps backward ... Strange day today in Santa Cruz ...

Thanks for the suggestions about the jib popping out and the jack lines. With the twin foil I'm peeling head sails and I found that I just need to pre-feed the jib a little more and it doesn't pop anymore. So that seems to be fixed ... Jacklines, not so much ...

I went out thinking that it was going to be between 5-10 kts. I ended up seeing 24 kts AWS. I put a reef in so that was nice. After beating for a while I was looking at the bow, heeled over 30-35, thinking I should go there and pop a smaller jib, just for practice. I was flying the #3 and thought it'd be a great exercise to change to the #4. I couldn't overcome the anxiety, well I think that's what it was ... So there's going to have to be more practice at the bow when heeled and pounding (which I wasn't even doing today).

I tried to heave to. At first I was a little timid with the tiller and was keeping it at 40 degree or so. I was still doing almost 3 knts. My slick was useless (it's supposed to help break down oncoming waves I read). But when I pushed the tiller almost 90 degree the boat stopped. So that was nice. The problem is that the boat was almost beam to the wind/waves, with the main completely eased out. The only way it seemed to get the boat pointing up more was to bring in the main, which powered the boat forward (there goes the slick). Another puzzle ...

And then I turned around, thinking, all right, let's pop the spinnaker again. It went so well last (first) time. I rigged everything and hoisted the spinnaker, only to hit a wind hole and then the wind shifted 180! So back down the spinnaker went. After beating a bit again and stuffing the sail in the bag (properly), I decided to try again ... and ... the sail did find the one sharp pin at the bottom of a turnbuckle ... and I ripped the foot. I haven't looked at the damage closely yet but there goes the practice .5 spinnaker ...

I've been thinking that the boat is slower on a close reach on port tack than on starboard tack. It's also more prone to heeling. Most of the weight is distributed to starboard (the engine, two batteries). I think that's what's causing that. When I go down to the leeward rail, with my 240 lbs there, something just doesn't feel right. Also having the auto-tiller on one side of the boat is a bit of a nuisance when the boat is heeling much.

I'm definitely out of my comfort zone with everything I do ... The boat has battle scars too now, nothing that won't scrub away ... but it's no more a shiny hull!

I've started doing a bit of yoga and hope to continue to help with balance and flexibility.

Voila ... time for a good night sleep ...

Sailronin
04-05-2017, 06:45 AM
Hi Philippe,
Heaving to (small jib backwinded and main mostly eased) will leave a little way on; the slick will not do much as you discovered.

pogen
04-05-2017, 11:09 AM
Some boats just don't like heaving-to as described in the books, especially light fin-keeled ones.

Lanikai
04-05-2017, 01:14 PM
Minor thread hijack -- I recently practiced heaving-to as well and didn't care for all that force of the jib sheet against the shroud...seems like a potential problem spot (sheet chafe, point load on the shroud).
Is there something else that people set up when hove-to for extended periods, like a barber hauler or block on the toerail to keep the sheet off the shroud?
Or am I being silly and paranoid?

pogen
04-05-2017, 01:23 PM
I think I remember that my boat would sort of heave-to if you first double reef the main, and then cross sheet the #3 or better #4 jib. Otherwise, it would just sail downwind no matter what.

You can put a snatchblock on the rail if you have a rail to lead an auxiliary sheet if your geometry leaves a line rubbing on the shrouds or whatever.

Wylieguy
04-05-2017, 04:15 PM
Once upon a time, on an ocean far, far away, sails were constructed of stiff canvas, then later thick Dacron. Chaff was much less a worry; it took a lot longer to chaff through than stretch beyond usefulness - that is if you didn't heave to for weeks on end. Today? I wouldn't consider heaving to with an expensive laminated carbon fiber headsail - unless my life depended on it and I had a backup jib ready to hoist. Times change and so do materials. ;-)

BobJ
04-05-2017, 05:15 PM
There aren't many boats that are less directionally-stable than a J/80 but even they heave-to pretty well. Here's how we teach it:

1) Look to leeward to make sure there's nothing you're going to slide into while hove-to.
2) Sailing close-hauled, sheet the jib in hard and get it as flat as possible (this doesn't work with a genoa). Ease the main to slow down.
3) Punch the boat up into the wind and chop until it's almost stopped, then complete the tack (leaving the jib tight on the new windward side).
4) Ease the main well-out and as the boat comes to a stop, push the tiller to leeward (45 deg +/-) and tie it off to a stanchion or something.
5) Go pee, have lunch, put on that band-aid or whatever you needed to do.

Sheeting the jib in hard first keeps the boat from oscillating while hove-to, and it will probably solve your chafe problem.
.

todd22123
04-05-2017, 06:19 PM
do you have something to lock the tiller in one pos'n?

I used this with both my express 27 and current boat J92s. Tiller Clutch. Works well

2290

you may find, as I found for the Express 27, that if you flatten the main and travel down a little, mainsheet out a little, the boat will jog slowly to windward w/o tacking in a relatively stable manner, that will allow you to drop the jib and put up another. This is described by Andrew Evans, section 5-1. He sails Olson 30.

http://sfbaysss.net/resource/doc/SinglehandedTipsThirdEdition.pdf

jamottep
04-05-2017, 07:03 PM
Ah ... A sensitive topic! I was able to heave to: speedometer was reading 0 and it was comfortable. The problem was the point of sail. Andrew Evans says as much:

The boat will settle in a heading directly
opposite the original heading, on a beam
reach.

That wouldn't be desirable in heavy seas, would it?

It's ​on my list to try again with a smaller jib.

jamottep
04-05-2017, 09:33 PM
And the spinnaker is repaired. It was quite a large L shaped rip. 1x2 ft.

Lanikai
04-05-2017, 10:18 PM
... sails were constructed of stiff canvas, then later thick Dacron. Chaff was much less a worry....

Ah, true; underway tasks, biological and otherwise, were easily handled when I was hove-to on a well-balanced little keel-centerboarder with a big genoa in fair weather. 10' swath of jib taut against the shroud didn't bug me much.
A good heave-to really is a handy trick!

But on my Cal I only have a measly 90%, and presume in real weather one has even less foresail up, so it's the sheets instead of the Dacron on the shrouds.
Snatch blocks are now on the shopping list.

jamottep
04-07-2017, 08:31 AM
Duct tape reigns ... Are there any preference for sailors, tape that sticks when applied to wet salty surfaces?