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Philpott
03-18-2016, 10:33 AM
At the Corinthian Skippers' meeting Brian Boschma mentioned that Todd was out there on Windtrip Infinity. Any news on whether he is safe and back in the bay yet? I hope all went well. If so, are there any good stories? If not, are there any good stories?

pogen
03-18-2016, 02:25 PM
This wasn't too well publicized, but it looks like Max knew about his DeLorme...

1417

BobJ
03-18-2016, 03:25 PM
Jackie should sign up with Faceplant so she'll see stuff like this. She'll also know what we're saying about her.

FB used to be good for keeping track of your kids but they've moved on to Snapchat etc. Now they say FB is for old folks like us.

pogen
03-18-2016, 05:59 PM
Facebook is good for being spied on and marketed to, and in many countries, censored and monitored by the local political police. I created a feed to FB because our page there existed already and thought it might as well get updates from our sites.

Our forum here has none of those dubious features of FB. Say anything you like!

todd22123
03-19-2016, 07:27 AM
At the Corinthian Skippers' meeting Brian Boschma mentioned that Todd was out there on Windtrip Infinity. Any news on whether he is safe and back in the bay yet? I hope all went well. If so, are there any good stories? If not, are there any good stories?

Thanks for asking Jackie.

The result was mixed. I sailed farther out and longer than I ever have but not far enough to complete the qualifying sail.

Here is the link to the Delorme page. https://share.delorme.com/ToddOlsen

I have two windows of time to do the qualifying sail, this one and early June.

The forecast was for up to 25 knots NW with declining but still active seas and an anticipated decrease in wind coming into this weekend. I know from other small sailboats that I can sail around SE Farallon Island without getting sea sick, but if I focus on something or go down into the cabin, I start feeling queasy. In the afternoon, Tues, the day of departure, after passing SE Farallon Island, I was dry, but getting chilly. I went down to the cabin and soon became sea sick. For the night, I continued to sail out, and I told myself, before going, that if I was going to pull the plug, I would wait until noon the next day, to make the decision with the sun well up and me warmed up from the night.

I wish I had done that. By 7:30 the next morning, not eating, sleeping (nausea trumped sleep), or drinking much water, I was concerned that I would get myself and others into difficulty. The Delorme inReach Explorer worked well, maybe too well, supplying a track for my wife and daughters to check on progress and a text line to communicate. They sent along supportive messages such as, "Hope the first day went well!", "Do you have entertainment?", "Are you okay? Did you bring Meclizine?", and "Maybe come home n try again another time?".

What I really needed was General Roper to send a msg to tell me to toughen up.

So I decided to put aside my personal goal to wait until noon and turned back 7:30A.

For next time, I will:

1. Look for a forecast with <25 knots WS if not off wind.
2. Try 1/2 scopolamine patch. The side effects can include, "confusion, agitation, extreme fear, hallucinations, unusual thoughts or behavior". I already know I will hallucinate, I did this time, so I do not want to further encourage this. I may just do a day trip out to the Gulf of the Farallones on the medication, me in and out of the cabin, testing things out.
3. More seriously consider a downwind destination as a Plan B, before pulling the plug AM second day.

Todd

BobJ
03-19-2016, 07:54 AM
I was thrilled to hear you were out there Todd. I'm sorry it didn't work out this time.

From what you wrote it sounds like you were okay once you were off the wind? Ending up in Monterey isn't bad - I think that's what Tom (SHAMAN) had to do.

The Smokester
03-19-2016, 08:30 PM
Todd, It means a lot that you shared this. I am in a similar spot and need to qualify with a LatePac. Although I have soloed the Farallons and been out for 24 hr solo, when I complete the LatePac it will be my personal best for SH'ed sailing...The longest I will have ever done solo. I was impressed that you just did it, particularly at this time of year. I will make mine in the next few weeks. If you have any advice, particularly how you chose your window, I am all ears. Let me buy you a beer. Or two. Best regards, The Who in s/v Owl

Philpott
03-22-2016, 04:44 PM
Thanks for asking Jackie.

The result was mixed. I sailed farther out and longer than I ever have but not far enough to complete the qualifying sail.

Here is the link to the Delorme page. https://share.delorme.com/ToddOlsen

I have two windows of time to do the qualifying sail, this one and early June.

The forecast was for up to 25 knots NW with declining but still active seas and an anticipated decrease in wind coming into this weekend. I know from other small sailboats that I can sail around SE Farallon Island without getting sea sick, but if I focus on something or go down into the cabin, I start feeling queasy. In the afternoon, Tues, the day of departure, after passing SE Farallon Island, I was dry, but getting chilly. I went down to the cabin and soon became sea sick. For the night, I continued to sail out, and I told myself, before going, that if I was going to pull the plug, I would wait until noon the next day, to make the decision with the sun well up and me warmed up from the night.

I wish I had done that. By 7:30 the next morning, not eating, sleeping (nausea trumped sleep), or drinking much water, I was concerned that I would get myself and others into difficulty. The Delorme inReach Explorer worked well, maybe too well, supplying a track for my wife and daughters to check on progress and a text line to communicate. They sent along supportive messages such as, "Hope the first day went well!", "Do you have entertainment?", "Are you okay? Did you bring Meclizine?", and "Maybe come home n try again another time?".

What I really needed was General Roper to send a msg to tell me to toughen up.

So I decided to put aside my personal goal to wait until noon and turned back 7:30A.

For next time, I will:

1. Look for a forecast with <25 knots WS if not off wind.
2. Try 1/2 scopolamine patch. The side effects can include, "confusion, agitation, extreme fear, hallucinations, unusual thoughts or behavior". I already know I will hallucinate, I did this time, so I do not want to further encourage this. I may just do a day trip out to the Gulf of the Farallones on the medication, me in and out of the cabin, testing things out.
3. More seriously consider a downwind destination as a Plan B, before pulling the plug AM second day.

Todd

Todd! Well, that is too bad but now you know for next time. I am impressed and also understand the nausea. The first time I sailed in an OYRA race on Temerity with David Nabors he kept sending me down to get spinnakers, which made me sicker every time. First one, then another. By the third time I was so nauseous! He called down to me, "Where's that spinnaker?!" I was throwing up in his galley sink and then I felt much better ;-)

todd22123
03-25-2016, 05:36 PM
Someone, presumably after reading my tale of woe, sent me a Scopolamine patch in an unmarked envelope, so thanks for that, whoever you are. I will try it out.

Todd

The Smokester
03-25-2016, 07:18 PM
Based on PredictWind, the conditions look good for April 3, 4, 5.

pogen
03-25-2016, 08:09 PM
Someone, presumably after reading my tale of woe, sent me a Scopolamine patch in an unmarked envelope, so thanks for that, whoever you are. I will try it out.

Todd


Cool, I hear Oxycontin is a great seasickness cure and I'd like to give that a try sometime.

Wylieguy
03-25-2016, 10:00 PM
I think I read something about cutting a Scopolamine patch in two in an earlier post? Back when Scopolamine patches were new, I used them for a Metropolitan YC Coastal Cup. Because I was cheap, I tried cutting them in half so the supply would last longer - my insurance didn't cover their cost - and they were expensive. One of my crew on that trip to Catalina was a sports doc. He cautioned me that the dose was metered by the patch's liner and that breaking (cutting) that liner fouled up the metering. He said I could get a heavier dose than was planned or that it might allow the medicine to evaporate without doing its job. I'd suggest checking with someone medical about the wisdom of cutting into the patch. You might also ask Ms.Mr. Anonymous about the patch's age and expiration date. I'm an English major, not a Medical major, so this is all 2nd hand info. Pat B.

svShearwater
03-27-2016, 04:06 PM
Someone, presumably after reading my tale of woe, sent me a Scopolamine patch in an unmarked envelope, so thanks for that, whoever you are. I will try it out.

Todd

This doesn't work for everyone, but I've found a very simple solution. I take Dramamine 2 nights before leaving the dock, sleep like a baby, then I take it again the night before, and sleep like a baby again. By the time I leave the dock I have plenty in my system and I'm over the drowsiness. Ready to rock! The side benefit of sleeping great the 2 nights leading up the big day is reason enough to follow this plan as my mind starts working in overdrive pre-race and I normally don't sleep for crap.

jakmang
03-28-2016, 02:15 PM
There is a very effective sea-sickness medicine called Stugeron (15mg). It can even work after you have become sick as long as you don't throw it up :-). The catch is that it has not been available in the US and it used to require a prescription. My wife is a physician and brought some from Holland. It looks like it is now available from Canada without prescription. (canadadrugs.com and probably other places). There don't seem to be any major side effects like patches.

Cheers,
-jak

Philpott
03-28-2016, 09:16 PM
There is a very effective sea-sickness medicine called Stugeron (15mg). Cheers, -jak

Stugeron can be purchased via ebay.

JohnS
03-29-2016, 08:17 AM
Stugeron can be purchased via ebay.

Buying drugs on eBay sounds just one small step away from a little plastic bag and a street corner. I love it.

Philpott
03-29-2016, 10:20 AM
Buying drugs on eBay sounds just one small step away from a little plastic bag and a street corner. I love it.

When I was at Cal I lived in a big Edwardian house painted pink. The Pink Palace, we called it. Two of my roommates were graduate students in chemical engineering. The entire attic was full of hamster cages and black lights. No rodents in sight. And the ingredients for the good stuff was brought from the office. Put new meaning into: "Don't leave home without it." Ebay? Child's play.

BobJ
03-29-2016, 10:33 AM
Reason #12 why I chose Cal-State Hayward instead. I've been boring ever since.

Anyone going out to 126 40 this weekend?

Gregs
03-29-2016, 01:43 PM
Reason #12 why I chose Cal-State Hayward instead. I've been boring ever since.

Anyone going out to 126 40 this weekend?



Planning for it around April 22nd...
Cheers,
Gregory

dhusselman
03-29-2016, 04:40 PM
I might go on Thursday, or otherwise next week.

Dirk "TIJD" - First 30JK

Philpott
03-29-2016, 06:35 PM
Do you late Pac buglighters intend to stay in touch with the Transpac Race Committee while you are out there? Or will you communicate via your delormes? If you choose to do that, we could post your whereabouts and other bits on this forum. That would be good practice for those of us who plan to greet you in Hanalei Bay. It would also offer the General the opportunity to maintain some discipline remotely. If you plan to just be stoical and act like people with bad hygiene, that's certainly your decision.

BobJ
03-29-2016, 07:05 PM
"What happens in the ocean..."

And just to clarify, you don't actually have to visit 126 40. You could go out 100 nm, sail in circles for a couple hundred more, then sail back in. Whatever floats your boat - because floating your boat is better than the alternative.

The Smokester
03-30-2016, 10:46 AM
I too am considering April 6, 7... next week although the winds are predicted to be light.

How is the LatePac documented to the RC? GPS track, log or both?

bizirka
03-30-2016, 11:19 AM
I am hoping to leave the 6th and will post a link to my Delorme.

Smokester, what forecast are you looking at? Both the CMC and GFS (via PredictWind) are forecasting 20-30 starting mid-day Tuesday.

The Smokester
03-30-2016, 12:47 PM
...Smokester, what forecast are you looking at? Both the CMC and GFS (via PredictWind) are forecasting 20-30 starting mid-day Tuesday.

I am using PredictWind Pro with Departure Planning and Weather Routing. Tue April 5 starts off with 20-30 kn through the morning of the 6th and tapers off to 5 to 15kn late in the afternoon/evening (of the 6th) and for the rest of a round trip to Longitude 126 40. This is a little far out in time but is reasonably consistent across all four models.

Models in image are: PWG = Blue; PWC = Red; GFS = Green; CMC = Yellow

bizirka
03-30-2016, 01:59 PM
Thanks! I am also using the pro version. Looks like the weather routing forecasts out further than the wind map. Just curious what are you using for your Latitude - have you played with it much?

The Smokester
03-30-2016, 03:02 PM
Thanks! I am also using the pro version. Looks like the weather routing forecasts out further than the wind map. Just curious what are you using for your Latitude - have you played with it much?

Start and finish are 37 47.184n 122 33.174w which is roughly at the GG end of the SF Channel...A few miles west of the Pt Bonita/Mile Rocks demarcation line. Turn around point for this calculation is 37 19.998n 126 40.002w which is slightly south in latitude from the start/finish. When it is closer I will probably do runs varying the turnaround. Also, since there is no reason to go to 126 40w, one can easily go where the wind blows once 100 nm offshore to get 400 nm total as quickly as possible. There is a 0.3 to 1 kt current predicted to flow in varying directions (not just north to south).

solosailor
03-30-2016, 05:08 PM
That's a good way not to spend money at the boat show !

Critter
04-01-2016, 01:18 PM
There is a very effective sea-sickness medicine called Stugeron (15mg).
I followed an intensive daily regimen of Stoogeron between the ages of 8 and 14, with occasional boosters since, and it's been perfectly effective.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb6tWYjyMR8

BobJ
04-01-2016, 01:37 PM
That's awesome.

pbryant
04-04-2016, 11:16 AM
Thanks for asking Jackie.

What I really needed was General Roper to send a msg to tell me to toughen up.

Todd

Actually, toughening up won't help you beyond forcing you to barf long enough that you acclimate. You can't psyche yourself out of seasickness. But there is one treatment that - though extreme and potentially expensive does work. NASA uses the same plan for rookie astronauts. Space sickness (zero G spatial disorientation) is an extreme form of seasickness.

They fly the rookies in trainer jets and subject them to every unusual attitude imaginable. Once they stop barfing, they're at least partially acclimated. (They still wear a patch when doing EVAs - barfing in a spacesuit can be fatal.) I flew competition aerobatics for years, and I've never been seasick. Unless the boat flips upside down and spins, I believe I'll be OK. I've been in some really ruff stuff, sealed up in the cabin with a sea anchor out, taking green water over the deck from all directions, while rolling 60 degrees and being intermittently weightless in the cabin: and all I've felt is a loss of appetite (and shear terror). I'm not made of nails - I used to get very green when I started aerobatics training.

Call around to find someone who practices aerobatics in a two-seater plane. Explain your goal, and I'll bet they'll take you up for free provided you supply your own airsick bags. I think you'll find you'll build up a tolerance very quickly. A few hours of loops, rolls and spins should be enough. It doesn't take long for most people to override the: "I'm dizzy - I must be poisoned - void my stomach" reflex -- unless you're unlucky enough to be another Jake Garn (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_adaptation_syndrome).

pogen
04-04-2016, 12:02 PM
Actually, there is a significant psychological effect with motion sickness. That is why many people swear by those wrist bands that supposedly apply pressure to an acupuncture point. Really it is the placebo effect, which is incredibly strong, across a wide range of maladies and treatments.

I don't get motion sick. I am certain that a part of my resistance is my conviction that I don't. In contrast, my younger daughter starts feeling dizzy and nauseous in the marina parking lot, before we even set foot on the dock.

I always wanted to try Bill's Cure for Seasickness: http://neversealand.downtothesea.org/2007/06/06/a-cure-for-sea-sickness/

pbryant
04-04-2016, 12:22 PM
Well, I dunno about that. There's a lot of science to back up nearly everyone being vulnerable to some extent. The astronaut corps are some of the psychologically toughest people around. And nearly all of them experience some space sickness on their first flight for the first day or so. As long as they're strapped down, they're fine. But once they move freely about, the queasiness sets in right away. Still, I admit that before going out on a rough day, I look in the mirror and say: "I never get seasick" and "I'm a klutz." So far, I've never gotten sick and never fallen overboard.

There does seem to be a psychological aspect to motion sickness. When piloting light aircraft with non-pilot passengers, I've used a technique to very good effect: When my passengers get queasy and whiny in turbulence, I pull a bottle of whiskey out of my flight bag that's filled with tea, take a long pull, and remark: "without whiskey I couldn't fly through this stuff!" The ensuing terror overrides their sickness. Once the turbulence has past, I let them in on the secret non-alcoholic content of the bottle. My personal proof that the technique works comes from the one time I confessed too soon that the bottle contained only tea - and everyone go sick immediately afterwards. On my boat, telling stories about ship-destroying whales (the story of the Whaleship Essex is my favorite) and Great White sharks patrolling the area that can jump the gunnels to snatch passengers who are chumming the waters ("just like in the movie Jaws") seems to work too. "Did you know that sharks can smell vomit from miles away?..."

Philpott
04-05-2016, 09:04 AM
Well? Have our intrepid sailors decided to delay their LatePacs until the wind goes down ten knots or so? Or are they raising their sails off Crissy Field as I type?

dhusselman
04-05-2016, 11:21 AM
Well? Have our intrepid sailors decided to delay their LatePacs until the wind goes down ten knots or so? Or are they raising their sails off Crissy Field as I type?

I'm leaving tomorrow morning around 10am. Anyone else going?
It might get a little light out there but hopefully not for too long...

Dirk "TIJD" - First 30JK

bizirka
04-05-2016, 11:33 AM
I'm leaving tomorrow morning around 10am. Anyone else going?
It might get a little light out there but hopefully not for too long...

Dirk "TIJD" - First 30JK

I am leaving Sausalito around 9AM tomorrow. Hopefully the wind is there - should be a nice reach most of the time.

Dirk, have you decided on a route yet? With the last update the Predict Wind route switched from reaching north the first day to dropping below the Farallons.

Philpott
04-05-2016, 11:54 AM
Well well, good on you, fellas. Here's a reminder of what you are aiming for: Gary Burton on Elizabeth Ann. Sleep deprived, skinny and happy in Hanalei Bay.

dhusselman
04-05-2016, 12:00 PM
I am leaving Sausalito around 9AM tomorrow. Hopefully the wind is there - should be a nice reach most of the time.

Dirk, have you decided on a route yet? With the last update the Predict Wind route switched from reaching north the first day to dropping below the Farallons.

Looks like there is more wind south, I will check in the morning and plan accordingly. Goal is to go fast as possible, clocking off miles and making it at least 100nm offshore. It would be cool to actually sail to 126.40 but only if the weather cooperates...

Do you want to check in offshore during the morning with VHF?

What is your boat name?

Dirk "TIJD" First 30JK

bizirka
04-05-2016, 12:19 PM
Looks like there is more wind south, I will check in the morning and plan accordingly. Goal is to go fast as possible, clocking off miles and making it at least 100nm offshore. It would be cool to actually sail to 126.40 but only if the weather cooperates...

Do you want to check in offshore during the morning with VHF?

What is your boat name?

Dirk "TIJD" First 30JK

Boat name is Kato.

Would be great to checkin via VHF - besides 16 I monitor 68.

See you out there!

The Smokester
04-05-2016, 12:49 PM
PredictWind for First 317 sailed at 75% starting April 6 at 10a from Pt Bonita:

1454

dhusselman
04-05-2016, 05:38 PM
PredictWind for First 317 sailed at 75% starting April 6 at 10a from Pt Bonita:

1454

It's starting to look lighter with every forecast. Maybe postpone to next week...

Dirk "TIJD" - First 30JK

dhusselman
04-05-2016, 08:37 PM
It's starting to look lighter with every forecast. Maybe postpone to next week...

Dirk "TIJD" - First 30JK

Leaving tomorrow morning at 4am catching some of the ebbing. Let's hope there will be enough wind to do 400nm in 4 days...

Dirk "TIJD" - First 30JK

The Smokester
04-05-2016, 09:18 PM
For your amusement...PredictWind for First 317 at 75% starting from Pt Bonita April 6 at 4a:

1456

bizirka
04-06-2016, 08:57 AM
Leaving in an hour. Hopefully there is wind and hopefully my delorme works.

https://share.delorme.com/JiRiandKaTo

dhusselman
04-06-2016, 09:31 AM
Leaving in an hour. Hopefully there is wind and hopefully my delorme works.

https://share.delorme.com/JiRiandKaTo

I left the dock at 3am to find out that there is a problem with my engine....

Dirk "TIJD" - First 30JK

dhusselman
04-07-2016, 11:35 AM
I left the dock at 3am to find out that there is a problem with my engine....

Dirk "TIJD" - First 30JK

Kato is making good progress.

My new plan is to leave on Tuesday.

When I tried to leave last Wednesday I ran into 2 problems.
1. No cooling water for engine
2. Instrument cluster not working.

I can sail without my instrument cluster and could fix it underway.
The engine was the main problem as there was no wind and I had to motor out to the GG bridge.

The causes for both issues were (as usual) related to last changes made...
Instruments did not work due to damage to the data cable when I installed the dodger.
Engine water intake (sail drive) was clogged after bottom cleaning. I resolved it by putting high pressure backwards to the water intake.

This is why we do these qualification sails, so we can figure things out. I expected to find problems but not that early in the trip!

Dirk "TIJD" - First 30JK

Philpott
04-07-2016, 11:47 AM
Kato is making good progress.

I resolved it by putting high pressure backwards to the water intake.

This is why we do these qualification sails, so we can figure things out. I expected to find problems but not that early in the trip!

Dirk "TIJD" - First 30JK

Great information, Dirk. Thank you for sharing. What exactly does it mean to put high pressure backwards? Did you switch out a hose? And I see that Kato is making good progress, and am trying to figure out how to measure it. When I switch in and out on aerial view the numbers in the bottom lower corner change e.g. from 3 miles to 20 miles. Does that represent the pings and the balls along the path? Does anyone know this? In other words, how far out has he gone already in miles?

dhusselman
04-07-2016, 12:06 PM
Great information, Dirk. Thank you for sharing. What exactly does it mean to put high pressure backwards? Did you switch out a hose? And I see that Kato is making good progress, and am trying to figure out how to measure it. When I switch in and out on aerial view the numbers in the bottom lower corner change e.g. from 3 miles to 20 miles. Does that represent the pings and the balls along the path? Does anyone know this? In other words, how far out has he gone already in miles?


The miles shown between the little lines are the miles to scale. Looks like he might have done 150 miles.

The Smokester
04-07-2016, 05:15 PM
Bizirka is roughly 120 statute miles (104 NM) from Pt Reyes.

Philpott
04-07-2016, 05:42 PM
Bizirka is roughly 120 statute miles (104 NM) from Pt Reyes.

Can you tell that from the Delorme or did he text you? (that's exciting, either way)

The Smokester
04-07-2016, 06:01 PM
I got it from the the distance between the Lat /Lon's of Pt Reyes and his position at the time. It would seem he has satisfied one of the criteria for the trip.

Philpott
04-08-2016, 03:13 PM
I got it from the the distance between the Lat /Lon's of Pt Reyes and his position at the time. It would seem he has satisfied one of the criteria for the trip.

Where are positions posted on the Delorme site? This was a very fast Late Pac, was it not? Aha! Watch out for Kato during the race!

The Smokester
04-09-2016, 07:30 AM
Where are positions posted on the Delorme site? This was a very fast Late Pac, was it not? Aha! Watch out for Kato during the race!

Using his Delorme link to go to his shared track page, click on a dot on his track. This will bring up a balloon. Click "more" in the balloon and this will bring up his lat/lon, speed and heading at that particular time.

dhusselman
04-11-2016, 08:54 AM
I left the dock at 3am to find out that there is a problem with my engine....

Dirk "TIJD" - First 30JK

Kato. Congratulations on finishing your qualifier! Thanks for sharing Delorme tracking, it was fun to follow.

My [new] plan is to leave tomorrow am.

Dirk "TIJD" - First 30JK

Philpott
04-11-2016, 11:07 AM
Using his Delorme link to go to his shared track page, click on a dot on his track. This will bring up a balloon. Click "more" in the balloon and this will bring up his lat/lon, speed and heading at that particular time.

Oh, got it! Thanks! Now I can watch Dirk. Go, Dirk!

BobJ
04-11-2016, 02:26 PM
There was an unplanned SSS get-together yesterday afternoon at the boat show. It turns out that SSS skippers are attracted to blinking lights - we all converged on the blinking lights from Brian's Pelagic AP controller, which was mounted on a Monitor wind vane in Scanmar's booth. It was like moths attracted to a light bulb.

Anyway, I asked about Jiri's (KATO's) Delorme plot and whether he had completed 400 nm even though he only went out 120 nm or so - I was assured he had. So that's my question - is there a button to push on the Delorme track page that shows a log reading?

Dirk was there and assured us his engine is now okey dokey. (Maybe he's still there - it was hard to get away from those blinking lights.)

Oh and speaking of the boat show:

1459

DaveH
04-11-2016, 02:38 PM
Bob -
if you go to the delorme page and click on the last update in the side bar on the left it pulls up a track summary.
From this looks like the total distance traveled was 404.05 miles at an average speed of 4.83mph...Congratulations Jiri!
DH

BobJ
04-11-2016, 02:46 PM
So it does - thanks! It also shows he got to almost 13 mph and 67 feet of elevation - that's impressive!

dhusselman
04-11-2016, 07:07 PM
So it does - thanks! It also shows he got to almost 13 mph and 67 feet of elevation - that's impressive!

Keep in mind that the speed is in mph, not nm or knots. You can change the setting on the DeLorme to show the speed in knots. It should show that on the web tracker.

Dirk

dhusselman
04-12-2016, 08:53 AM
I don't like the low pressure coming this way as part of the cold front. Qualifier should be enjoyable...

Maybe in a couple of weeks.

Dirk "TIJD" - Firt 30JK

BobJ
04-12-2016, 09:29 AM
"Energetic swell train." Wasn't that a 60's variety show?

Are you going for 400 nm or statute? The RR&C's don't specify.
.

The Smokester
04-12-2016, 12:21 PM
...Are you going for 400 nm or statute? The RR&C's don't specify.
.

Where do you think there is ambiguity?

bizirka
04-12-2016, 01:27 PM
Where do you think there is ambiguity?

I had to have my 'shore crew' check for me when I was nearing the bridge. The Instructions just state miles. My gps and delorme did not agree on my mileage (da! Statute vs nautical) eventually the gps powered off on accident so I used the delorme as source of truth. My hand held unit put me at 415 miles. As a side note. The delorme only samples every one minute and uploads every ten. My top speed on my gps was 14.2 knots. I got surprised by 35knots and rather large swells with my 150 jib top up. It was a hoot. I will post a detailed write up when I get a chance. Thank you for following everyone. I had a blast.

sleddog
04-12-2016, 01:33 PM
Where do you think there is ambiguity?

Ambiguity exists, as SHTP RRC's require a Qualifying Cruise not less than 400 "miles." Doesn't specify what kind of miles, statute miles or nautical miles.

One would assume, being offshore, that traditional nautical miles would be in play. In fact, RRC 4.39 requires a "knotmeter."

However, I believe a Delorme is default programmed to read statute miles distance and miles/hour speed. It can be reprogrammed to read nautical miles/knots, if desired.

Sailing 400 statute miles is equivalent to sailing 347.6 nautical miles.

bizirka
04-12-2016, 01:47 PM
hopefully there isn't any fallout from this. My work would fire me if I had to take another 4 days off before the big event :)

The Smokester
04-12-2016, 02:23 PM
Ambiguity exists, as SHTP RRC's require a Qualifying Cruise not less than 400 "miles." Doesn't specify what kind of miles, statute miles or nautical miles.

One would assume, being offshore, that traditional nautical miles would be in play. In fact, RRC 4.39 requires a "knotmeter."...

I respectfully point out that there is no ambiguity in the written rules. The rules state that "The qualifying cruise shall not be less than 400 miles...". A mile is defined as 5,280 ft. If something different is intended then a modifier, such as "nautical", is used. Perhaps there is ambiguity arising from SSS tradition in which case some of us newcomers need to be schooled.

BobJ
04-12-2016, 03:21 PM
hopefully there isn't any fallout from this. My work would fire me if I had to take another 4 days off before the big event :)

Since the RR&C's don't say nautical miles I think you're fine. Congrat's on a successful qualifier.

I do think the RR&C's should be clarified though. We are sailors - we navigate using nautical miles. Using a non-marine specific device (the Delorme) caused the confusion.

sleddog
04-12-2016, 04:25 PM
Congrats, Bizirka! I agree with BobJ: you've fulfilled the Qualifier requirements.

The ambiguity does need attention by the RC. The NOR says SF-Kauai race course is 2120 miles. That's gotta be nautical miles, the international agreed upon measurement used on all nautical and aero-nautical charts, and equal to 1 minute of latitude of the circumference of the Earth.

When measuring nautical miles on a paper chart, the dividers should go to the side of the chart, not the top or bottom.

Statute miles are used in the USA for overland distances and space shuttle launches, but pretty much no where else in the World. ("hey, sleddog, what about Myanmar?")

If you sail 2120 statute miles southwest, you'll likely be a bit short of finding any islands.

todd22123
04-13-2016, 03:19 PM
From one of the Gurus on the Delorme Forum:

"The units used on the device and on the web site maps (both your own explore account Map tab and the MapShare map) are independent. You can control the units on the maps from the Account tab, Units sub-tab on the explore.delorme.com site. The same setting controls both the explore site and the MapShare site."

I changed mine so it is in nm and kts now instead of mi and mph.

https://share.delorme.com/ToddOlsen

pbryant
04-13-2016, 03:47 PM
From one of the Gurus on the Delorme Forum:

"The units used on the device and on the web site maps (both your own explore account Map tab and the MapShare map) are independent. You can control the units on the maps from the Account tab, Units sub-tab on the explore.delorme.com site. The same setting controls both the explore site and the MapShare site."

I changed mine so it is in nm and kts now instead of mi and mph.

https://share.delorme.com/ToddOlsen

One thing to keep in mind: Delorme appears to be measuring all velocities in kilometers per hour (kph), rounded to the nearest whole kph. So if you display speeds in knots, you will see ridiculously specific speeds like 5.45 knots (10 kph) and 4.90 knots (9 kph) that are actually conversions of kph to knots, which are then only as exact as the nearest whole kph increment. Kinda cheesy. And an obvious effort at data compression by omitting tenths of a kph. It had me scratching my head at first: "How did I go miles and miles at exactly 5.45 knots?" I didn't. I was moving somewhere between 9.5 and 10.5 kph at the successive position reports, which was rounded to 10 kph, and then converted to 5.45 knots.

For a fast moving vehicle, better granularity wouldn't matter much. But the rounding errors become important at low speeds. A whole kph error (about half a knot) due to rounding becomes important when it's 10% of your velocity.

One other thing I discovered about Delorme accuracy: if you operate the tracker in default mode, it powers up the GPS receiver only long enough to get a rough approximation of your position, transmits, and then powers down the GPS. This behavior saves power but results in position reports that are often 2,000 feet away from actual. You'll see this if you leave it in that mode on a stationary boat for a few days - you'll get a spiderweb pattern that's about 2,000 feet in diameter. If you leave the unit continuously on a charging source, and configure the GPS receiver to stay on (only a tiny power penalty), then the GPS stays alive for the 10 minutes it needs to get a full set of WAAS corrections, and the accuracy is within the normal GPS bounds of 30 feet. For position reports sent every 10 minutes, eliminating that 2,000 foot error can also have a significant effect (up to 20% at 5 knots) on improving the accuracy of your reported speed. There's no penalty in battery life because, if the Delorme tracker does lose charging power, it'll revert to the default power-saving mode.

With both factors combined: the rounding errors on velocity combined with position errors, velocities in the range of 5 knots reported every 10 minutes can be in error by as much as +/- 30%.

dhusselman
04-29-2016, 05:08 PM
Plan is to leave tomorrow morning around 9am for LatePac

Dirk "TIJD" First 30JK

mike cunningham
04-29-2016, 05:42 PM
Are we able to track you somewhere?

The Smokester
04-30-2016, 10:14 AM
s/v Tijd outbound on 400 NM qualifying run.

Track him here: http://dlor.me/PRDGPRZ

mike cunningham
05-01-2016, 08:34 AM
Cool! But I am still seeing him in Richmond as of 0833 Sunday morn, is that accurate?

BobJ
05-01-2016, 08:48 AM
No:

1486

Philpott
05-01-2016, 08:55 AM
No:

1486

Go, Dirk!!! "Tiiiiiiijd is on your side"

BobJ
05-01-2016, 09:10 AM
Since TIJD is a Beneteau, Dirk set his DeLorme to French lieues. Maybe that's what whacked it out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mile

Dazzler
05-01-2016, 11:46 AM
From TIJD's AIS track on MarineTraffic.com, it looks like he had a screaming reach out past the Farrallones, turn around at about 1430, and then followed his track back. He was back to Richmond by about 2000.

Since NOAA was predicting gale warnings, I'm sure we are all anxious to hear his full story.

Tom P.
CLOUD

dhusselman
05-01-2016, 02:19 PM
Epiphany.

There was a lot of wind and big seas. It was a great ride winds between 25 and 32 knots. Boat handled really well with 2 reefs and a #3 jib. Seas were big but not many breakers.
What happened is that I came to the realization that I do this for all the wrong reasons (in my mind). I enjoy the racing aspect but I don't enjoy being out at sea for a long time. I was counting down the miles. If I don't enjoy being out for 3 days, why would I want to be out there for 14 days. I have great memories of the LongPacs I sailed but it was not about enjoying being out at sea, it was about the challenge, competition, and accomplishment. I never go sailing offshore for "fun", only when I race. Looking back to the early days, when I sailed many of the offshore IOR series, I never signed up for transatlantic crossings. It's just something I don't enjoy and need to be ok with that. The Farallones, Half Moon bay, Spinnaker Cup, and LongPac are the races that fit me well.

Needless to say, I'm cancelling my registration and I have a lot of gear for sale...

Dirk "TIJD" First 30JK

Gamayun
05-01-2016, 06:55 PM
Wow, that's an interesting perspective. Sorry to hear this, Dirk, but good that you've made the epiphany now rather than mid-ocean. I've often wondered about this for my motives, as well. I'm pretty sure it's about the destination that will make it worthwhile for me, and one of the reasons that I backed out this year, is that I wasn't going to be able to stay in Hawaii for as long as I wanted because of new client obligations right now. It doesn't seem to be worth it to not have enough down time to soak it up on the other side before heading back. Always good to know thyself.

dhusselman
05-02-2016, 02:26 PM
A little taste of the great sailing last Saturday. I hope to go that fast at the next SSS Farallones race..
This is a great little ocean boat.

https://youtu.be/KnKrFjDSYYk

Dirk "TIJD" First 30JK

Philpott
05-02-2016, 03:01 PM
A little taste of the great sailing last Saturday. I hope to go that fast at the next SSS Farallones race.. This is a great little ocean boat. https://youtu.be/KnKrFjDSYYk Dirk "TIJD" First 30JK

"There was a lot of wind and big seas. It was a great ride winds between 25 and 32 knots. Boat handled really well with 2 reefs and a #3 jib. Seas were big but not many breakers."

Aaaaaaahhh. Um. Yes, I look forward to it, too.

I just watched the video. Aaaaaaahhhh. Um, Sure, I look forward to it, too. Ummmmmm....

BobJ
05-02-2016, 03:19 PM
That looked really smooth - 8,300# displacement will do that for you. It's hoppier on a 5,500# boat: In those conditions I get a big bruise on the inside of my right arm from wrapping it around the stanchion. I can hardly wait for the SH Farallones...

ronnie simpson
05-02-2016, 04:25 PM
you want "hoppy", BobJ? the little 2,000 lb Moore 24 - while solid as a rock - would fit that description in lumpy, breeze-on Gulf of Farallones conditions ... :)

looks like a great ocean boat, Dirk!

Wylieguy
05-02-2016, 09:15 PM
For me, a cockpit sitter and a lefty, it's bruises on the inside of my right elbow hooked around the starboard winch. Like Bob's 5500#, a Wyliecat can bounce right out of the water or fall off the backside of a square swell. Sort of like being inside a big, hollow, no bulkhead bass drum. Yessir, I'm looking forward to May 14.

BobJ
05-03-2016, 07:59 AM
The only thing missing here is the disco music.

Harrier
05-03-2016, 10:08 AM
Some of us have a different view as to what's called "fun". That isn't "survival mode" yet, but it's closer to that than "fun' to me!

Lightspeed
05-03-2016, 08:26 PM
Epiphany.
I enjoy the racing The Farallones, Half Moon bay, Spinnaker Cup, and LongPac are the races that fit me well. Dirk "TIJD" First 30JK
Dirk - I respect your call, and FYI, one of my best racing memories was dueling with you in the 2013 LongPac, which I was ahead at the Farallones coming home but you out smarted me overnight in the ebb and came from behind to kicked my butt. "Any day sailing is better than working"

BobJ
05-08-2016, 08:12 AM
What's the word on Doug (Foxxfyre)? An SSS FacePlant post showed him on his way out Thursday afternoon, and MarineTraffic has him back in the slip yesterday.

The Smokester
05-09-2016, 11:07 AM
What's the word on Doug (Foxxfyre)? An SSS FacePlant post showed him on his way out Thursday afternoon, and MarineTraffic has him back in the slip yesterday.

He was out about 30+ hours and made it to about Noonday Rock. Very little wind and he had an appointment he couldn't blow off so had to return. Lots of whales, Orcas and mysterious-looking fishing boats.

pbryant
05-16-2016, 03:50 PM
I'm waiting for conditions offshore of San Francisco to be better than "the worst anywhere in the North Pacific" for four consecutive days. My diminutive vessel doesn't do well (nor do I) in 15 foot swells at 9 seconds. I'm a commercial pilot, and if I've learned anything from aviation, it's to not let "pressure" compromise sanity.

Just to clarify the rules: as long as I sail at least 100 miles (nautical - I assume) offshore, then I can sail around in circles closer ashore if I want after that, as long as the total distance traveled non-stop is 400 miles, correct? Conditions closer to shore might make the voyage more doable in the short time remaining.

JohnS
05-19-2016, 08:32 AM
Not to kick the hornet's nest (and I recall a few posts related to this issue elsewhere this year) but...The rules do not state nautical miles. The RRC's simply say "miles." If I had to make an argument I'd go with common usage for miles, which would be statute. So, 100 miles off shore and 400 miles under sail. Nothing says you can't go out 100 miles, turn around and come back and sail laps around the bay until you reach the required number. Although I think traffic in the bay might be a bit of an issue.

Personally, also being in the "latest-possible-pac" group (where was the wind last year during Long-pac??) I'm looking at a possible start on Saturday the 28th and I'll likely check the 100 mile box and find a comfortable point of sail and do a few laps until the return makes the distance. At least that's what the plan looks like now. And we all know things always go as planned off shore...

Also, I just noticed while looking at the RRC's to confirm the qual cruise details that there is a minor "navigational" error in the document. 2.04 [a] indicates that the qual cruise details can be found in Rule 9. In fact, it is Rule 8 that describes the required qual cruise details. (I seriously doubt this is worth correcting at this point.)

BobJ
05-19-2016, 09:45 AM
As the skippers' meeting ended, the day before the start in 2010, the General made the comment "It looks like we're going to get our asses kicked."

You won't get to pick your conditions for the "windy reach" and you won't be able to stay close to shore. You need to see how you and your boat will do out there. It's not about checking a box.

pbryant
05-19-2016, 09:59 AM
As the skippers' meeting ended, the day before the start in 2010, the General made the comment "It looks like we're going to get our asses kicked."

You won't get to pick your conditions for the "windy reach" and you won't be able to stay close to shore. You need to see how you and your boat will do out there. It's not about checking a box.

It's one thing to find yourself in perilous seas, despite your efforts to avoid them. That's bad luck. Everyone has to be prepared for that contingency. It's another thing altogether to intentionally sail into peril. That's imprudent seamanship (stupidity).

It's all about knowing your limitations and having a strategy. I won't intentionally set out in the 14 foot seas at 10 seconds that we have right now offshore. My strategy for surviving those conditions in my 26 foot boat is to throw out the sea anchor and hunker down. I don't make much progress that way (based on past experience - about 0.4 knots).

I've had enough sea survival experiences and don't need to prove myself or my vessel. I'll leave it to others to demonstrate that racing is antithetical to prudent seamanship and a major consumer of helicopter aviation fuel.

There are old sailors, and there are bold sailors. But there are no old bold sailors.

dhusselman
05-19-2016, 11:00 AM
The RCC states miles, not specifying nautical miles. However this is about an ocean race and sailing. In this context it will always be nautical miles.

If you don't want to sail 400nm offshore, why would you want to sail 2100 nm this summer (as I concluded for myself)


Not to kick the hornet's nest (and I recall a few posts related to this issue elsewhere this year) but...The rules do not state nautical miles. The RRC's simply say "miles." If I had to make an argument I'd go with common usage for miles, which would be statute. So, 100 miles off shore and 400 miles under sail. Nothing says you can't go out 100 miles, turn around and come back and sail laps around the bay until you reach the required number. Although I think traffic in the bay might be a bit of an issue.

Personally, also being in the "latest-possible-pac" group (where was the wind last year during Long-pac??) I'm looking at a possible start on Saturday the 28th and I'll likely check the 100 mile box and find a comfortable point of sail and do a few laps until the return makes the distance. At least that's what the plan looks like now. And we all know things always go as planned off shore...

Also, I just noticed while looking at the RRC's to confirm the qual cruise details that there is a minor "navigational" error in the document. 2.04 [a] indicates that the qual cruise details can be found in Rule 9. In fact, it is Rule 8 that describes the required qual cruise details. (I seriously doubt this is worth correcting at this point.)

JohnS
05-19-2016, 11:52 AM
Despite what BobJ says, it is precisely about checking a box, meeting the requirement etc. If it wasn't there would be no need to specify requirements. The RC would then have the much more difficult task of assessing participant capabilities and qualifications based on individual evaluations of experience. But the point is valid about testing your boat and yourself. (Personally, I'm looking forward to seeing how a number of modifications work out there.) And, while any time we venture more than a few hours offshore (or even then) we must be prepared to deal with what finds us, I have to agree with the prudence expressed by pbryant. However, for me the need to fit all this fun in with work and other commitments leaves limited schedule flexibility along the lines of moving things up or back a day or two at best.

As for not wanting to sail 200 (400 is the total required distance) miles off shore, if that turns out to be practical, I'm good with that. On the other hand, it seems sensible to me to try to minimize fatigue before making my return and entrance to the bay. So, yes, I will be looking to make things as comfortable as possible at that distance offshore to get some rest before the return. I feel much better about sleeping with the boat a good distance from a landmass and not pointed at said landmass.

With regard to nautical vs. statute miles I would refer to posts 61 through 67 of this thread. If statute miles are good enough for one qualifier they should be acceptable for all.

BobJ
05-19-2016, 12:44 PM
Well, you guys are running out of time to pick your ideal weather window. BTW, Gregory is going out Saturday to qualify (on the smallest boat in the fleet).

pbryant
05-19-2016, 01:39 PM
I'm still watching the forecast, but if it holds, I too plan on going out this weekend. https://share.delorme.com/AdAstra

Philpott
05-19-2016, 02:14 PM
Well, you guys are running out of time to pick your ideal weather window. BTW, Gregory is going out Saturday to qualify (on the smallest boat in the fleet).

I look forward to watching Ad Astra, Crazy Rhythm and Libra on Delorme.

The Smokester
05-19-2016, 02:45 PM
Not to kick the hornet's nest (and I recall a few posts related to this issue elsewhere this year) but...The rules do not state nautical miles. The RRC's simply say "miles." If I had to make an argument I'd go with common usage for miles, which would be statute. So, 100 miles off shore and 400 miles under sail. Nothing says you can't go out 100 miles, turn around and come back and sail laps around the bay until you reach the required number. Although I think traffic in the bay might be a bit of an issue...

I am an SSS newbie. I also am about to set out on my 400 qualifier. I participated a few posts back about the meaning of "400 miles" in the context of a recent qualifier who had set his Delorme to 400 statute rather than nautical miles. Since the discussion happened after his return, and since to a newbie it is ambiguous, his 400 miles is good (apparently). However, most of the long-time SSSers, who have made this club the respected organization it is, that I have talked to, are pretty clear that it is 400 nautical miles and there is a difference.

Also, the original qualifier is the LongPac and it is my understanding the LatePac is designed to simulate it on the off years. Talking to some fellow SSSers, one of whom clearly missed his calling as a lawyer, we have discussed the idea of circling the Bay to accumulate miles, trucking the boat to Lake Tahoe or Southern CA part way through and any number of schemes not specifically excluded by the RRC's.

The main consensus is, nobody is interested in nitpicking the rules into the ground even though it's fun to think about it. There is a context, a tradition, from which this race is derived.

Again, as a newbie, my 0.02 bhat.

dhusselman
05-20-2016, 02:47 PM
Owl and Libra started their LatePac today...

Philpott
05-20-2016, 04:05 PM
Owl and Libra started their LatePac today...

go, John and Gregory! Dirk, do you have their tracker sites?

Dazzler
05-20-2016, 04:40 PM
Both OWL and LIBRA have AIS and their progress (while relatively close to shore) can be viewed at www.marinetraffic.com . As of a few minutes ago OWL had traveled from Richmond to the GG bridge and then retreated to Sausalito. It looks like LIBRA is still in Sausalito Yacht Harbor.

BTW, it's been interesting to see which boats showup well on MarineTraffic. During the Farallones race GALAXSEA was visible as they rounded SE Farallon. I suspect his AIS antenna is high up.

Tom P.

Philpott
05-21-2016, 07:45 AM
Owl is headed west. 18 nm nw of the Gate it is 7.8 knots. Libra is still at the dock in Sausalito.
Go, John!

dhusselman
05-21-2016, 08:56 AM
You can follow John here:
https://share.delorme.com/JohnWoodworth

sleddog
05-21-2016, 01:34 PM
With light winds from the westerly quadrant forecast through tomorrow, OWL has his work cutout getting to the weather mark. Port tack almost parallels the northwest trending shoreline with leftover NW seas on the bow. Starboard isn't much better. Will be interesting to see which tack John chooses. Eventually, Monday, the breeze should veer NW, and OWL should begin to hunt.

Interesting to note John has chosen to calibrate his DeLorme in nautical miles and knots.

pbryant
05-21-2016, 03:22 PM
Just about to lose Internet access... I can confirm sleddog's observation and suggestions. Sloppy leftover seas from the NW. Wind 10 knots from WSW. This is going to take a lot of tacking to reach 100 NM offshore!

You can follow me here: https://share.delorme.com/AdAstra. Also at http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=11&call=a%2FN8QH-9&timerange=86400&tail=86400 and

brianb
05-21-2016, 04:55 PM
Hi John,

It is NM, nautical miles, else you haven't done the qual. BTW, when you are using marine charts, as required, you might want to take note that they are all calibrated in NM. Also, when you reduce your sextant data, it is going to resolve to degrees, mins, secs, which are conveniently set up to split the earth into a nice set of degrees found on the magnetic marine compass on your deck. Those same units are found on the charts and GPS charts you are using. This was agreed to a few years back, one of the few international agreements that has stuck .


Regards,

Brian BOschma



Not to kick the hornet's nest (and I recall a few posts related to this issue elsewhere this year) but...The rules do not state nautical miles. The RRC's simply say "miles." If I had to make an argument I'd go with common usage for miles, which would be statute. So, 100 miles off shore and 400 miles under sail. Nothing says you can't go out 100 miles, turn around and come back and sail laps around the bay until you reach the required number. Although I think traffic in the bay might be a bit of an issue.

Personally, also being in the "latest-possible-pac" group (where was the wind last year during Long-pac??) I'm looking at a possible start on Saturday the 28th and I'll likely check the 100 mile box and find a comfortable point of sail and do a few laps until the return makes the distance. At least that's what the plan looks like now. And we all know things always go as planned off shore...

Also, I just noticed while looking at the RRC's to confirm the qual cruise details that there is a minor "navigational" error in the document. 2.04 [a] indicates that the qual cruise details can be found in Rule 9. In fact, it is Rule 8 that describes the required qual cruise details. (I seriously doubt this is worth correcting at this point.)

bizirka
05-21-2016, 06:36 PM
Yesterday was a tough day to start your qualifier - I went out with Adam and we saw gusts of 48 knots. Good luck to them!

pbryant
05-21-2016, 07:13 PM
Question: Is hove to with a sea anchor disqualifying on this qualifying sail? Technically, it's still underway but "not under command."

I'm going to get stuck in a box with a lee shore on three sides and the eye of the wind on the 4th, without enough seaway to sleep without tossing out the parachute for safety. It'll keep me from approaching shore by retaining what little seaway I have.

Before anyone says that's illegal, the freighters do it all the time. If that's not cool, then I might as well turn around and start again tomorrow. I'm practically becalmed out here and trying to claw my way past the shipping lanes.

----

Disregard... I drifted into the traffic lanes and had to start my engine to avoid scratching the paint on M/V Heritage Leader.

Maybe later...

bizirka
05-21-2016, 09:59 PM
Question: Is hove to with a sea anchor disqualifying on this qualifying sail? Technically, it's still underway but "not under command."

I'm going to get stuck in a box with a lee shore on three sides and the eye of the wind on the 4th, without enough seaway to sleep without tossing out the parachute for safety. It'll keep me from approaching shore by retaining what little seaway I have.

Before anyone says that's illegal, the freighters do it all the time. If that's not cool, then I might as well turn around and start again tomorrow. I'm practically becalmed out here and trying to claw my way past the shipping lanes.

----

Disregard... I drifted into the traffic lanes and had to start my engine to avoid scratching the paint on M/V Heritage Leader.

Maybe later...

I am certainly no authority on this - it is my understanding that if you are floating around with no wind and you must start up your engine to avoid a tanker then that is called prudent seamanship and is not punished by the laws of racing (no idea if it applies to this qualifier) and as long as its reported (and you didn't gain any ground) it shouldn't count against you... Looks like you are heading back already. I am sure you will find another good window to do you qualifier - great effort.

BobJ
05-21-2016, 11:04 PM
Here's a link to Gregory's track:

http://snap.ocens.com/?uname=libra

Philpott
05-22-2016, 08:09 AM
I can't find the rules for the LongPac. What are the coordinates to be met?

BobJ
05-22-2016, 08:17 AM
In the LongPac race you have to reach 126 40W. In the LatePac you can wander around as long as you get at least 33.3 leagues offshore and eat enough PopTarts.

sleddog
05-22-2016, 09:29 AM
Nothing says you can't go out 100 miles, turn around and come back and sail laps around the bay until you reach the required number. Although I think traffic in the bay might be a bit of an issue.

Not to burst anyone's bubble, but in 2008 AH sailed out 100 miles, sailed back into SF Bay, and completed his qualifying cruise inside the Bay without stepping ashore. The RC from 2008 reports "we had the good fortune to deny him and make him do another qualifier."

Perhaps the qualifier, as well as being sailed in nautical miles, should have half the distance to be sailed outside 100 miles, rather than doing loops closer to shore?

pbryant
05-22-2016, 04:33 PM
Not to burst anyone's bubble, but in 2008 AH sailed out 100 miles, sailed back into SF Bay, and completed his qualifying cruise inside the Bay without stepping ashore. The RC from 2008 reports "we had the good fortune to deny him and make him do another qualifier."

Perhaps the qualifier, as well as being sailed in nautical miles, should have half the distance to be sailed outside 100 miles, rather than doing loops closer to shore?

Finding four good consecutive days in Spring weather, with its steady progression of troughs and filthy sea states, is a real challenge. Being barred from performing some of that sail closer ashore (though I would NOT argue in favor of doing it in the Bay) further diminishes the opportunities. The Spring weather runs either cold or hot offshore, and seldom warm, this time of year. Looking at the current forecast, I have another window starting Monday, but the offshore forecast for Thursday calls for: "SEAS BUILDING TO 9 TO 14 FT." The sea state is better (though challenging) closer ashore. I do not intentionally set out to sail in 14 foot seas at 8 seconds (per the current NOAA wave period forecast). If I can't do a portion of that sail closer than 100 miles offshore, then that's a problem.

My next window for sailing offshore closes on Thursday, which isn't a large enough time window for my "100 miles on a good day" boat.

I recall reading accounts of other qualifiers ending with a sail down to Monterey and back. Am I imagining things?

Critter
05-23-2016, 10:05 AM
I recall reading accounts of other qualifiers ending with a sail down to Monterey and back. Am I imagining things?
I believe that's what Nathalie Criou on Elise did a few years ago. Raced and finished the Spinnaker Cup, turned and headed back, being sure to get 100 miles offshore during the return.

DaveH
05-23-2016, 10:56 AM
I believe that's what Nathalie Criou on Elise did a few years ago. Raced and finished the Spinnaker Cup, turned and headed back, being sure to get 100 miles offshore during the return.

That may have occurred, but I don't think it was Nat.
IIRC, in 2014, Natalie did a more or less "by the book" late pac, but diverted to Santa Cruz after finding herself beating into an unanticipated 25knot gale on her last day while returning from the south after a fairly light and uneventful few days offshore.

pbryant
05-23-2016, 11:23 AM
I'm still back in port at Pillar Point, looking at the current weather and forecast. Wind is still 270 degrees true at buoy 46012 (http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/station_page.php?station=46012) (off Half Moon Bay). I could go back to doing north/south boards, cheating south this time to avoid heavy traffic out of the Bay, but the real challenge is getting enough seaway to safely sleep. I could deploy my sea anchor without adequate underway seaway, but that will delay my progress. Finally - off shore weather is forecast to be UGLY starting Thursday: 30 knot winds (possibly a gale), and much worse: 15 foot seas at 9 seconds (based on the Pacific Briefing Package (http://www.opc.ncep.noaa.gov/shtml/P_brief.shtml)).

Still, I've got my boat ready to go, so I might as well enjoy a sail for now. As forecast now, Thursday is No Go - not prudent - bad idea. But I'll watch the forecast...

dhusselman
05-23-2016, 11:34 AM
Looks like Libra turned around and is on it's way back. He is pretty far South but tomorrow's WNW winds should allow him to come back at a nice angle.
Owl is still on it's way out, maybe turning around later tonight.

Dirk "TIJD" First 30JK

pogen
05-23-2016, 11:36 AM
I think she tried that for a LongPac qualifier (equivalent to SH Farallones) , not a SHTP qualifier.

sleddog
05-23-2016, 02:02 PM
Looks like Libra turned around and is on it's way back. He is pretty far South but tomorrow's WNW winds should allow him to come back at a nice angle.

LIBRA turned back at 0915 today, with nearest point of land, Pt. Sur, bearing 70 degrees mag., at 162 nm. As noted above by Dirk, forecast NW winds, 10-15 knots should fetch him home nicely. Good going, Sir.

JohnS
05-23-2016, 02:22 PM
Not to burst anyone's bubble, but in 2008 AH sailed out 100 miles, sailed back into SF Bay, and completed his qualifying cruise inside the Bay without stepping ashore. The RC from 2008 reports "we had the good fortune to deny him and make him do another qualifier."

Perhaps the qualifier, as well as being sailed in nautical miles, should have half the distance to be sailed outside 100 miles, rather than doing loops closer to shore?

Wow, someone actually did that? I'm shocked. Dealing with all the traffic in the bay would leave me exhausted after all those laps.

JohnS
05-23-2016, 02:32 PM
Hi John,

It is NM, nautical miles, else you haven't done the qual. BTW, when you are using marine charts, as required, you might want to take note that they are all calibrated in NM. Also, when you reduce your sextant data, it is going to resolve to degrees, mins, secs, which are conveniently set up to split the earth into a nice set of degrees found on the magnetic marine compass on your deck. Those same units are found on the charts and GPS charts you are using. This was agreed to a few years back, one of the few international agreements that has stuck .


Regards,

Brian BOschma

Well, that's a bit snarky and the "lesson" completely unnecessary. (Had to learn to do conversion in my head while flying. Aviation seems to intermingle statue and nautical miles with somewhat greater regularity than the sailing world does.)

At least it's nice to know that the rules operate on assumptions rather than specifications. And what is this sextant thing you mention?

Care to inform us what happened with regard to bizirka's qualifier issue regarding statute/nautical miles and distance sailed and whether the cruise was acceptable or not? (See posts 63 through 68 of this thread.)

sleddog
05-24-2016, 06:13 AM
OWL turned for home at 1653 hrs., Monday afternoon, reaching 116 nm offshore Pigeon Point, bearing 062 m. LIBRA should be finishing her qualifier sometime this afternoon, Tues. Winds in their vicinity are ~WNW, 10 knots.

AD ASTRA is underway from Half Moon Bay, and making good progress to the SW.
https://share.delorme.com/AdAstra

brianb
05-24-2016, 08:41 AM
Hi John,

It was meant to be critical as we don't want participants to start shaving the rules. I actually thought you were joking. The intent is quite clear. The entire event, as with every sailing event I have ever entered, is measured in NM, as you know. I decided to take the critical approach in an attempt to blunt a notion that statute miles were acceptable. Regarding the other entrant who posted a FB photo showing miles we discussed the total distance sailed and resolved that he had completed the qualifier.

Have fun on the qualifier. Maybe in 2018, for the first time we will state that it must be nautical miles, and Shell Oil road maps, or Google Earth photos, are not allowed for charting the event.

Regards,

Brian


Well, that's a bit snarky and the "lesson" completely unnecessary. (Had to learn to do conversion in my head while flying. Aviation seems to intermingle statue and nautical miles with somewhat greater regularity than the sailing world does.)

At least it's nice to know that the rules operate on assumptions rather than specifications. And what is this sextant thing you mention?

Care to inform us what happened with regard to bizirka's qualifier issue regarding statute/nautical miles and distance sailed and whether the cruise was acceptable or not? (See posts 63 through 68 of this thread.)

sleddog
05-24-2016, 03:52 PM
AD ASTRA reached 57 miles offshore before turning back. "Weather window will close too early" Tough call for him. Offshore NW winds increasing to 15-25 knots by tomorrow, Wednesday, and further increasing through Friday, 25-35.

Spinnaker Cuppers should have a fast ride and get to Monterey in time for chowder Friday evening.

BobJ
05-24-2016, 04:13 PM
Hey Sled, I'm going on a J/125 this year. RACER X bought it.

dhusselman
05-24-2016, 04:43 PM
That should be a fun ride...



Hey Sled, I'm going on a J/125 this year. RACER X bought it.

sleddog
05-24-2016, 04:46 PM
Hey Sled, I'm going on a J/125 this year. RACER X bought it.

I'll be on MAYAN in the Master Mariners ....hope we don't crush anything:rolleyes:

Philpott
05-24-2016, 05:01 PM
Hey Sled, I'm going on a J/125 this year. RACER X bought it.

Last Wednesday night I went over to sail out of Richmond with Chris Case on Fugu and we walked over to take a looksee at Mary and Rich's new boat. Wow. That's what we both kept saying out loud. We didn't touch it, because there were no smudges on it anywhere and we didn't want to get in trouble. It looks to be made for single/doublehanding, with all those lines led aft. I remember Racer X's red steering wheel, which seemed a whimsical touch. Maybe the same person who ordered that wheel ordered the nectarine orange mainsheet? It was for sure a thing of beauty. Have fun, kids!

BobJ
05-24-2016, 05:36 PM
I thought you didn't touch it because it's new name is CAN'T TOUCH THIS.

It's not a shorthanded boat in its current configuration, and you'd have to be Magilla Gorilla to work the loads. They plan to race with full crew and maybe keep the J/105 for doublehanding, SSS, etc. (Did you walk all the way over to KKMI to see it?)

Back to the thread - it looks like Gregory just passed the Lightbucket.

Philpott
05-24-2016, 06:03 PM
(Did you walk all the way over to KKMI to see it?)

Oh, maybe there is another J88 in the Richmond YC marina? Brand new. And YEEEEAAAAA! Greg! Littlest boat, brave guy!

dhusselman
05-24-2016, 09:13 PM
Looks like Libra is back in port. Great job completing the qualifier!

Owl is sailing WSW to get some extra miles. He probably will turn back during the night and could be back in port tomorrow afternoon.

sleddog
05-25-2016, 04:35 AM
Good job, LIBRA!

And OWL. I temporarily had to stop watching OWL due to dizziness until I realized John was attempting to sign the boat's name with his track.

I'm off to visit the skipper of one of the smallest boats to complete the SHTP, the Cal 20 BLACK FEATHERS, in 2008. If you haven't read the book Black Feathers, it's a great story. Robert and Jeanne now live in Forest Hills, east of Auburn in the Sierra foothills, where he builds Taiko drums.

bizirka
05-25-2016, 09:07 AM
I bumped into LIBRA and Gregory on my walk home last night just as he was docking. He was in great spirits and the boat looked great (much cleaner than mine after the qualifier). Sounds like he had a lot of fun out there.

Harrier
05-25-2016, 10:01 AM
At my age, my memory no doubt dims...but I'm fairly sure that when I qualified for the '84 SHTP, I sailed out 200 miles (actually more, since there was no sun there to take my required sextant shots) and then back from whatever distance. I believe the 200 miles offshore was a requirement...total "at least" 400 NM. Perhaps the rules have changed. Perhaps I was just being hard on myself...after all, it was 32 years ago!

pogen
05-25-2016, 10:17 AM
Nice going guys -- the upcoming weekend is looking pretty tough!

http://sfbaysss.org/main/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/pwbm99.gif

Philpott
05-25-2016, 11:02 AM
At my age, my memory no doubt dims...but I'm fairly sure that when I qualified for the '84 SHTP, I sailed out 200 miles (actually more, since there was no sun there to take my required sextant shots) and then back from whatever distance. I believe the 200 miles offshore was a requirement...total "at least" 400 NM. Perhaps the rules have changed. Perhaps I was just being hard on myself...after all, it was 32 years ago!

Sir, when you met up with the Transpac racers after the 1978 race you were coming from, forgive me if, at my age, my memory with no doubt dims, Tahiti. Or was it Rangoon? Or Fatu Hiva? Or Venezuela? I think sailing 200 miles offshore was a mere walk in the watery park for you. See you in Kauai!

pbryant
05-25-2016, 01:05 PM
Results of my shakedown cruise.

While I hoped to complete the qualifying cruise, the sail would have required I stay out through Thursday to make the required 400 miles. The forecast I obtained on Tuesday called for 12 to 14 foot seas on Thursday. The swell period forecast was 9 seconds - worse than the conditions under which I intentionally sail. So I turned around to avoid pointlessly burning up another two vacation days. Instead, since the conditions were very typical offshore, I used the sail as a shakedown to observe my boat's performance while heavily loaded. With cold, unemotional analysis, I've come to this conclusion: I need a bigger boat.

I'm posting my results here in case someone can find a fault in my logic. Having spent a significant chunk of time and life savings preparing for the race, I'd be happy to hear of any gross errors on my part. I know smaller boats have completed the cruise in 21 days. Black Feathers did it, and I admire the skipper. But my early 60s vintage boat with it's modified full keel - while stable and sturdy - clings tenaciously to the water and defies proper balancing when an extra 1,000 pounds are added in the only available space.

----

Conclusion: Assuming moderate wind, seastates and significant time spent sailing on a reach point of sail with ahead to abeam seas, the race could not be completed within the required 21 days. The boat was clearly overloaded. The shakedown sail was conducted with a load representing two-thirds the weight of consumables, to bias results toward performance in the first third of the cruise. Without clear skies for solar power production, sufficient power for the boat would not be available from the water generator at speeds below 4.8 knots, requiring use of the gasoline generator, in turn requiring more fuel than the 6 gallons carried. Downwind sailing in following seas may require use of a drogue device to manage yaw stability, adversely affecting speed.

Conditions:

Mild to moderate seas. Sustained winds 8 to 11 knots, maximum gusts of 16 knots. A close reach (50 to 60 degree apparent wind angle) point of sail was chosen on both tacks with head to abeam seas. Along with a full inventory of sails, 200 pounds of leadshot was added to simulate stores. When embarking, the total stores over basic empty weight would be:
Batteries: 300 pounds (358 A/H)
Gasoline generator: 40 pounds
Full sail inventory: 60 pounds
Life raft: 65 pounds
Unconsumed food, water, (simulated by lead shot) and spares: 300 pounds
Fuel for generator (6 gallons): 36 pounds
Myself: 200 pounds
Total: 1,001 pounds
Cargo weight percentage of boat empty weight: ([1,001 / 5120] X100): 19.5%

The 200 pounds of lead shot simulating 20 gallons of water plus 40 pounds of food and gear was placed at sole level in the forward cabin as far aft as possible - just forward of the main bulkhead under the mast step. Actual placement of those stores would be less optimal. To minimize adversely affecting roll stability, the life raft was placed on the forward sole (the only space available).

Stats:

Time underway: 32 hours 40 minutes.
Distance traveled: 135.9 miles (130 miles under sail)
Average speed (without engine during return): 3.9 knots.
Extrapolated time to Hawaii at average speed (2,300 actual miles assumed): 590 hours (24.6 days)

I estimate the same sail without the stores on board would have yielded an average speed of 4.8 knots.

Observations:

The boat was sluggish. While not in motion, the boat was balanced and "on its lines," though loaded was 3 inches lower at the water line. The static pitch balance was level (no up or down pitch at the slip), but the bow pitched down as speed increased and was down 3 to 5 degrees above 4 knots, demonstrating positive dynamic pitch instability. The bow buried in head seas causing considerable speed loss in swells compared to its normal performance. There was also a significant pitch down affect and detectable adverse yaw in light following seas. Moderate following seas would probably require use of a drogue device to maintain yaw stability. There was no noticeable affect on roll stability, but with actual stores placed higher than the leadshot at sole level, roll stability may be affected. The water generator (Hamilton Ferris) produced minimal power at speeds below 4.8 knots. Acquiring weather charts from saildocs via SSB caused the chartplotter to malfunction. It was restored with a reboot. The autopilot (Raymarine tiller pilot) was unaffected, while it was operating in wind-follow mode (the chartplotter failure would have cascaded to the autopilot had it been in coupled-operation with the chartplotter). All other systems performed as expected. 8 foot cross-seas were encountered during part of the sail which required running a jackline across the cabin overhead to permit standing upright. Light rain fell for 10 hours. No water was brought aboard and the bilge remained dry.

BobJ
05-25-2016, 01:54 PM
I agree, the Ariel doesn't have much water plane area to carry that extra weight. My boat weighs about the same as yours but has 8' more waterline length and 2' more beam (not sure how WL beam compares). Moreover, I kept most of the provisions in a big box on the cabin sole, amidships. I had to continually step over it but weight in the ends is bad for pitching moment.

You are probably carrying more weight than necessary but each of us chooses what makes us comfortable. For example, my batteries weigh less than half what you show above. I wouldn't need the generator and fuel since the weight of my boat already includes a diesel inboard. A full tank of fuel adds 84# but the most fuel I've used in the SHTP was about 5 gallons, and that was a mostly cloud-covered year so solar panels weren't as effective. Consumables also seems quite high at 300# even with about half of it being water (168#). Most don't eat as much as they expect - I personally lost 23# during the 2006 race. I think the average is about 20#.

You might look at how other small boats provisioned (BLACK FEATHERS for example) and see if you can make some compromises.

Then there's the whole race vs. cruise discussion. I notice you called it a cruise in one spot.

pbryant
05-25-2016, 05:08 PM
Thanks BobJ. All good advice and observations. I can only dream of having a diesel driven alternator. What I have is a 6 HP outboard. I could install a generator in the outboard, but my experience is it will not produce the 5 amps advertised at anything less than ear splitting RPM. With that paltry output, it is a huge waste of fuel compared to my Honda generator.

On my shakedown, I arrived back at sunset with only 76% state of charge in my batteries because I depended mostly on solar power. My main producer of power - the water generator - provided only about 20 amp/hours because of my low speed through the water. Less than 1 amp per hour. That's not enough to power only the navigation lights and tiller pilot. I'm expecting 5 amps at 4.8 knots: 120 amp/hours per day. What I got was 24 amp hours per day. The output is non-linear: 5 amps at 4.8 knots, practically nothing at 4 knots. I have so much battery capacity because I budgeted for 24 hours of no power production consuming less than 25 percent of total capacity. I allocate only half the amp/hour rating of the batteries as usable capacity since drawing down lead/acids below 50% leaves you with lower capacity ever after (plate sulfation). (Those of you with lithium batteries may feel free to gloat at this point.) So, one day's ration of power is 89.5 amp/hours, or 3.7 amps per hour. That's about what I use. The solar panels produced about 6 amps maximum, for only a few hours, while I was on about the same heading I'd sail to Hawaii: 232 M. The number of days till solstice is about the same as the number of days after solstice on race day, so I can't count on the days being longer.

I'm budgeting 1 gallon of water per day, 30 gallons total, which weights 240 pounds. If I'm going to over allocate anything, it should be water. That leaves 60 pounds for food and "other stuff." The stuff is tools, plywood for fabricating repairs (port light covers, etc.), spare parts, and two danforth anchors with 25 feet of chain (total). I'm budgeting 2,000 calories per day. I'm a former EMT, and we'd give people in a coma 1,800 calories per day. My resting metabolic rate is 1,900 calories per day - that's sitting in front of the TV all day exercising my thumb on the remote. Granted, it wouldn't hurt me to lose weight, but not during a race.

I could bring water in 500 ml (pint) bottles and store those in the sattee lockers. I just tried that, and found I can stuff 90 bottles in each side - a total of 22.5 gallons. That places nearly all the water weight below the water line, amidships and outboard of the center line, which will help compensate for the loss of roll stability a tiny bit, and move the CG aft.

I had planned to pull the outboard out of its engine port, but there is no place to store it except in the forward cabin. It weighs 65 pounds. Putting it in my living space is not an option, I don't want it landing on me in a knockdown. It has sharp pointy parts. So I could leave it in the engine port and drag it all the way to Hawaii. But that won't help my speed issues. That's a problem with the Ariel design: the engine can't be pulled up without taking it out and putting it somewhere. It won't fit inside the engine compartment on its side. It was in its port during my shakedown, acting as a counter weight to the bow. Putting it anywhere forward will only make things worse. I could just not bring the engine, but that tips the fore/aft balance the wrong way.

I could move the life raft to the main cabin sole, and try to walk sideways around it. It weighs the same as the engine, it wouldn't lacerate me in a knockdown - just break a rib or two. Plus, walking and falling on it probably hurts its performance. Retrofitting it to mount on the forward deck doesn't solve the balance problem - it just places the weight higher. My living space is already down to 360 cubic feet - half the space of a standard prison cell, and I'd have no place to use the porta pottie. At this point, the cruiser in me screams for me to stop. As you detected, there is a cruiser side to my personality, and it would strangle my racer side at the thought of putting the life raft in the main cabin. Still, if I ever get a weather window in time to do the qualifier, I'll try that and see if I can convince my cruiser side that it's fun.

I've heard that a "cruiser/racer" boat is a bad compromise in both categories. I'm afraid I have a cruiser/racer brain. I've read Black Feathers. I really do admire the skipper for his seamanship and for overcoming all the challenges he faced, but it sounded like pure misery to my cruiser side.

Dazzler
05-25-2016, 06:33 PM
Hello Peter,
I have been following your TransPac prep with interest. My parents were the original owners of Ariel #256 FLYING CLOUD. Their boat has had a few subsequent name changes and is, I believe, now in Morro Bay. I well remember racing against your boat when it was JUBILEE. Dean Morrison was tough to beat.

I'm prompted to write with some comments on our weight issues. The Ariels were originally built some with an Atomic 4 and most without. For the boats without an engine, there was added ballast in the form of a good sized wedge shaped chunk of lead under the cabin sole. Additionally, the dealer for San Francisco Bay added more lead well forward under the head area. I wonder if your boat has any of the "added" ballast, and if so, if removing it would help, considering all the other weight you have onboard.

I was surprised by your problem of how to stow the outboard. We hardly ever used our long shaft Evenrude. The well plug was left in and the motor lived on its side in the engine compartment. The fuel tank was below.

Tom P.

salnichols94804
05-25-2016, 09:29 PM
Owl is home.

Harrier
05-26-2016, 10:11 AM
Re plans for the SHTP: don't plan on 30 gals of water. That's 9 gals more than the "requirement" (which used to be 15 gals until recently). I have never used more than 8 gals on the race....And you'll never know if you can make it to Hanalei unless you try. Even if you end up "FAD", at least you did it! Nothing ventured......

pogen
05-26-2016, 10:39 AM
Point of reference, on our Pac Cup trip of 15 - 16 days two people used well under 20 gal of water for all uses, though for the first 4 or 5 days we should have been forcing ourselves to drink more. And I don't think adding a drouge to go even slower in a slow boat is really a good idea -- except in some sort of storm/survival scenario.

pogen
05-26-2016, 10:43 AM
If I were stuck w/o a boat I would enquire if TIJD was for charter, that would be the best fit imaginable.

The Smokester
05-26-2016, 12:50 PM
This is a report for s/v Owl after 5 days, 400 nm under sail at sea. The experience was overwhelmingly positive. And yes, we were tempted to write Owl’s name in the GPS track.

The biggest high was sitting on the bow offshore in a cobalt blue ocean, big sky and 10 knots wind. And then there was the serendipitous talk by VHF with s/v Libra, when we crossed 10 nm apart after 3 days at sea…We on the outbound and she in. Communications (with many of you) via sat pager were very big events. Thank you.

By far, the lows involved drifting aimlessly near Noonday Rock and the North Farallon, and later off Pt Reyes, just barely outside the shipping lanes. I thought life was over…But then more highs: My good friends reasoned me through it or gave me some tuff luv (usefully in the form of inferential logic).

Mostly, winds were about 8-10 knots NW with periods of undetectability, sometimes mixed with mist and drizzle. But mostly glorious. For the last 24 hours I saw 10-30 kt NW (probably gusting higher on the way down the SF channel) as the weather turned, except once again near Pt Reyes where we were totally becalmed (as in take the sails down and burn them, you are driving me crazy) for an hour or two around noon near Pt Reyes.

Lessons learned: When the wind dies, eat hearty, get clean, rest, fix stuff. If you get crazy, heave to or double reef, eat, rest. All better. When the wind blows put the sails back up and go.

Systems on Owl worked well with the following exceptions: 1) The Iridium Go, which had been apparently thoroughly debugged over the last month, quit due to the SIM being deregistered. This has been an ongoing problem, but uninstalling and wiping the contacts had previously cleared the problem. Not this time. So, no sat coms. Delorme Inreach, weather radio and SWL were backups. Work with supplier to resolve problem. Also, soon-to-be-installed SSB will provide redundancy. 2) The propane solenoid acted up for the first time ever and required persuasion. In addition, at 15 watts, it is the largest electrical power consumer on the boat. Find alternative. 3) The staysail sheets (new configuration as of February) found yet another place to snag. Hunt the snags down like the dogs they are and keep sailing. 4) The turning blocks for the Monitor wind vane have too much friction. Most distressingly, they squeal like pigs in heat. Who needs that? Definitely replace. 5) Clipping in multiple times in the cockpit is a real pain. Install min-jacklines. 6) Engine starting depends on the house battery banks (which in turn can depend on the engine for charging if solar is low) creating a downward spiral of uncertainty and despair leading to psychotic breakdown while drifting helpless in the night towards Noonday Rock. Install separate starting battery. 7) The deadbolt on the inside of the companionway hatch, not normally used at sea, engaged and locked me out topside. Fortunately, I had a spare key in the heel of one of my sea boots. Replace lock and get bigger seaboots.

Philpott
05-26-2016, 01:24 PM
This is a report for s/v Owl after 5 days, 400 nm under sail at sea. The experience was overwhelmingly positive. And yes, we were tempted to write Owl’s name in the GPS track.

The biggest high was sitting on the bow offshore in a cobalt blue ocean, big sky and 10 knots wind. And then there was the serendipitous talk by VHF with s/v Libra, when we crossed 10 nm apart after 3 days at sea…We on the outbound and she in. Communications (with many of you) via sat pager were very big events. Thank you.

By far, the lows involved drifting aimlessly near Noonday Rock and the North Farallon, and later off Pt Reyes, just barely outside the shipping lanes. I thought life was over…But then more highs: My good friends reasoned me through it or gave me some tuff luv (usefully in the form of inferential logic).

Mostly, winds were about 8-10 knots NW with periods of undetectability, sometimes mixed with mist and drizzle. But mostly glorious. For the last 24 hours I saw 10-30 kt NW (probably gusting higher on the way down the SF channel) as the weather turned, except once again near Pt Reyes where we were totally becalmed (as in take the sails down and burn them, you are driving me crazy) for an hour or two around noon near Pt Reyes.

Lessons learn: When the wind dies, eat hearty, get clean, rest, fix stuff. If you get crazy, heave to or double reef, eat, rest. All better. When the wind blows put the sails back up and go.

Systems on Owl worked well with the following exceptions: 1) The Iridium Go, which had been apparently thoroughly debugged over the last month, quit due to the SIM being deregistered. This has been an ongoing problem, but uninstalling and wiping the contacts had previously cleared the problem. Not this time. So, no sat coms. Delorme Inreach, weather radio and SWL were backups. Work with supplier to resolve problem. Also, soon-to-be-installed SSB will provide redundancy. 2) The propane solenoid acted up for the first time ever and required persuasion. In addition, at 15 watts, it is the largest electrical power consumer on the boat. Find alternative. 3) The staysail sheets (new configuration as of February) found yet another place to snag. Hunt the snags down like the dogs they are and keep sailing. 4) The turning blocks for the Monitor wind vane have too much friction. Most distressingly, they squeal like pigs in heat. Who needs that? Definitely replace. 5) Clipping in multiple times in the cockpit is a real pain. Install min-jacklines. 6) Engine starting depends on the house battery banks (which in turn can depend on the engine for charging if solar is low) creating a downward spiral of uncertainty and despair leading to psychotic breakdown while drifting helpless in the night towards Noonday Rock. Install separate starting battery. 7) The deadbolt on the inside of the companionway hatch, not normally used at sea, engaged and locked me out topside. Fortunately, I had a spare key in the heel of one of my sea boots. Replace lock and get bigger seaboots.

I love this! Thank you, John. Your positive personality just comes leaping out of this report. Congratulations. Owl is such a great boat. I know you will be very happy together all across the Pacific.

pbryant
05-26-2016, 01:57 PM
Re plans for the SHTP: don't plan on 30 gals of water. That's 9 gals more than the "requirement" (which used to be 15 gals until recently). I have never used more than 8 gals on the race....And you'll never know if you can make it to Hanalei unless you try. Even if you end up "FAD", at least you did it! Nothing ventured......

Got it. So the 22.5 gallons I can stuff in the sattees should be enough. Oh to have a watermaker so I wouldn't worry... The rules also require at least two containers. I will have 180, and the rules go on to say: "Water containers must be filled at the yacht’s final inspection." Really? I'm hoping the inspectors will become very bored with the prospect of watching me empty and refill 180 bottles, see that there's already water in them, and let this slide. (Plus, I'd get stuck with tap water instead of my super expensive filtered tap water.)

The real determinate of whether I can go is whether the weather will give me a window to do the qualifier in the short time remaining. The pattern has been three days calm, three days gale with insane seastates. I can work my way through the calms, but I never intentionally sail into 14 foot sharp and fresh swells. It's better to be ashore wishing you were on the water, than on the water wishing you were ashore. My boat and I do have limitations.

pbryant
05-26-2016, 02:19 PM
Point of reference, on our Pac Cup trip of 15 - 16 days two people used well under 20 gal of water for all uses, though for the first 4 or 5 days we should have been forcing ourselves to drink more. And I don't think adding a drouge to go even slower in a slow boat is really a good idea -- except in some sort of storm/survival scenario.

If I can solve the balance problems, I can eliminate the stern trying to get in front of the bow (too far forward CLR), and I won't need a drogue except for running in a storm. I agree that 22.5 gallons is a lot. I drink 0.5 gallon a day in warm weather. But if I have any gastrointestinal issues (or the first boat ever of seasickness), that number will go way up. I had a virus once (norovirus) while crewing on a commercial vessel that caused me to lose 2 gallons (16 pounds) per hour for four hours. Fortunately, we had a medic who could feed me saline via IV. Having enough water to meet an emergency like that is part of self-sufficiency. I agree that the 21-gallon-rule is just about right for a fast boat. I do feel safer in my slow boat with a little extra.

By the way, for dehydration, I have a small supply of Pedialyte powder (https://pedialyte.com/products/powder-packs) in my first aid kit. Just mix in bottled water. Sport drinks like gatorade are a bad idea - they are actually hypertonic and taken undiluted will exacerbate dehydration. Too much salt.

pbryant
05-26-2016, 03:26 PM
Hello Peter,
I have been following your TransPac prep with interest. My parents were the original owners of Ariel #256 FLYING CLOUD. Their boat has had a few subsequent name changes and is, I believe, now in Morro Bay. I well remember racing against your boat when it was JUBILEE. Dean Morrison was tough to beat.

I'm prompted to write with some comments on our weight issues. The Ariels were originally built some with an Atomic 4 and most without. For the boats without an engine, there was added ballast in the form of a good sized wedge shaped chunk of lead under the cabin sole. Additionally, the dealer for San Francisco Bay added more lead well forward under the head area. I wonder if your boat has any of the "added" ballast, and if so, if removing it would help, considering all the other weight you have onboard.

I was surprised by your problem of how to stow the outboard. We hardly ever used our long shaft Evenrude. The well plug was left in and the motor lived on its side in the engine compartment. The fuel tank was below.

Tom P.

Thank you Tom! Try as I might, I have never been able to wedge my 6 HP, 4 stroke, long shaft Nissan outboard into the compartment on its side. I have two fuel tanks in there that would have to be repositioned, and the thought of storing gasoline below makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.

I have looked for the extra ballast "pig" under the main cabin sole. All I can find are two eyeloops of multiple strands of very rusted wire poking up out of the resin. I assume that was for loading in the main ballast. I don't want to disturb those loops because I once drilled a very shallow hole in the resin and got a minigeyser of water. There's water just under the resin. I didn't know about the added ballast under the head area. I'd have to saw through the sole there to look for it. The head without a holding tank, which is illegal, was removed by me and the through-hulls glassed in right after I bought the boat. Since I have a captain's license, the CG would throw the book at me if I'd left it there. So that's a few pounds taken away from the forward cabin. If I drill an inspection hole through the sole to look for the forward ballast, what would it look like?

I suspect Mr. Morrison, being aware of the speed penalty produced by the extra ballast, may have removed it.

Wylieguy
05-26-2016, 05:19 PM
I've been following this thread, but since I'm not Transpacking just for fun. I sailed on an Ariel with Ken Jesmore in the 1970s out of Sausalito. An oft discussed topic was the removal of the two iron "pigs" that lived in the bilge sump in outboard models that compensated for the Atomic 4 that weighed down inboard models. If your sump is shallow, there's a possibility the "pigs" were glassed over at some point. They were sort of wedged in with some wood boards, if I remember correctly - sort of loose. They're rectangular blocks with a "loop" handle on one end. I think they weighed something like 200# each. You might inspect the top of the sump to see if it looks "pro" or "amateur" in its finish.

But what caught my eye was the "mini geyser" of water" when you "drilled a very shallow hole in the resin." Have you had a good survey recently? It sounds like the hull might be waterlogged. A good "tap" job during a haul out would quickly determine whether the hammer "tapped" or "mushed." Since the main ballast is encapsulated a surveyor might be able to tell you whether there's a problem with the structural integrity of the hull. The boat's been sitting in water for decades, and fiberglass is permeable, so absorbs water. Ariels were built in an era where everything was hand done, and in that era it wasn't unusual for workers to leave voids. I know the common theme is "They're solid fiberglass," but they're not. They're multiple layers of fiberglass and roving that someone mopped/rolled resin into/onto. There were good days and bad days at the factory.

Dazzler
05-26-2016, 10:00 PM
Peter,
Pat B. provides some really good advice. Water in the keel/ballast area was/is a known problem with Ariels. My parent's boat had the same problem.

As for the added lead pig, I really don't remember how it was fastened. We made no attempt to remove it. I have no idea what the floor around your head looks like. On your boat the area may or may not be original. My best recollection (50 something years later) is that the additional lead added in SF Bay boats was in the form of lead ingots that had been cut and placed well forward in the area somewhere near under the head. It was an area that did not require demolition for access.

You really should reconsider having a fuel tank for your outboard "inside" your boat. It is commonly done with no downside consequences when done with reasonable care. The benefits include moving weight inboard and freeing up space in the outboard locker.

Tom P.

Dazzler
05-26-2016, 10:45 PM
This is a report for s/v Owl after 5 days, 400 nm under sail at sea. The experience was overwhelmingly positive. And yes, we were tempted to write Owl’s name in the GPS.

John: Congratulations from your one time dock neighbor CLOUD. Well done!

And, thank you for the insightful write-up. The SSS is about learning and sharing. Others will hopefully learn from, and be inspired by your experience.

Tom P.

dhusselman
05-27-2016, 09:40 AM
John, Thanks for sharing. Your story also confirms the need for the 400nm qualifier. You will find stuff that otherwise would go un-noticed.

Congratulations on finalizing the qualifier.

Dirk "TIJD" First 30JK


This is a report for s/v Owl after 5 days, 400 nm under sail at sea. The experience was overwhelmingly positive. And yes, we were tempted to write Owl’s name in the GPS track.

The biggest high was sitting on the bow offshore in a cobalt blue ocean, big sky and 10 knots wind. And then there was the serendipitous talk by VHF with s/v Libra, when we crossed 10 nm apart after 3 days at sea…We on the outbound and she in. Communications (with many of you) via sat pager were very big events. Thank you.

By far, the lows involved drifting aimlessly near Noonday Rock and the North Farallon, and later off Pt Reyes, just barely outside the shipping lanes. I thought life was over…But then more highs: My good friends reasoned me through it or gave me some tuff luv (usefully in the form of inferential logic).

Mostly, winds were about 8-10 knots NW with periods of undetectability, sometimes mixed with mist and drizzle. But mostly glorious. For the last 24 hours I saw 10-30 kt NW (probably gusting higher on the way down the SF channel) as the weather turned, except once again near Pt Reyes where we were totally becalmed (as in take the sails down and burn them, you are driving me crazy) for an hour or two around noon near Pt Reyes.

Lessons learned: When the wind dies, eat hearty, get clean, rest, fix stuff. If you get crazy, heave to or double reef, eat, rest. All better. When the wind blows put the sails back up and go.

Systems on Owl worked well with the following exceptions: 1) The Iridium Go, which had been apparently thoroughly debugged over the last month, quit due to the SIM being deregistered. This has been an ongoing problem, but uninstalling and wiping the contacts had previously cleared the problem. Not this time. So, no sat coms. Delorme Inreach, weather radio and SWL were backups. Work with supplier to resolve problem. Also, soon-to-be-installed SSB will provide redundancy. 2) The propane solenoid acted up for the first time ever and required persuasion. In addition, at 15 watts, it is the largest electrical power consumer on the boat. Find alternative. 3) The staysail sheets (new configuration as of February) found yet another place to snag. Hunt the snags down like the dogs they are and keep sailing. 4) The turning blocks for the Monitor wind vane have too much friction. Most distressingly, they squeal like pigs in heat. Who needs that? Definitely replace. 5) Clipping in multiple times in the cockpit is a real pain. Install min-jacklines. 6) Engine starting depends on the house battery banks (which in turn can depend on the engine for charging if solar is low) creating a downward spiral of uncertainty and despair leading to psychotic breakdown while drifting helpless in the night towards Noonday Rock. Install separate starting battery. 7) The deadbolt on the inside of the companionway hatch, not normally used at sea, engaged and locked me out topside. Fortunately, I had a spare key in the heel of one of my sea boots. Replace lock and get bigger seaboots.

pbryant
05-27-2016, 10:14 AM
I've been following this thread, but since I'm not Transpacking just for fun. I sailed on an Ariel with Ken Jesmore in the 1970s out of Sausalito. An oft discussed topic was the removal of the two iron "pigs" that lived in the bilge sump in outboard models that compensated for the Atomic 4 that weighed down inboard models. If your sump is shallow, there's a possibility the "pigs" were glassed over at some point. They were sort of wedged in with some wood boards, if I remember correctly - sort of loose. They're rectangular blocks with a "loop" handle on one end. I think they weighed something like 200# each. You might inspect the top of the sump to see if it looks "pro" or "amateur" in its finish.

But what caught my eye was the "mini geyser" of water" when you "drilled a very shallow hole in the resin." Have you had a good survey recently? It sounds like the hull might be waterlogged. A good "tap" job during a haul out would quickly determine whether the hammer "tapped" or "mushed." Since the main ballast is encapsulated a surveyor might be able to tell you whether there's a problem with the structural integrity of the hull. The boat's been sitting in water for decades, and fiberglass is permeable, so absorbs water. Ariels were built in an era where everything was hand done, and in that era it wasn't unusual for workers to leave voids. I know the common theme is "They're solid fiberglass," but they're not. They're multiple layers of fiberglass and roving that someone mopped/rolled resin into/onto. There were good days and bad days at the factory.

There are two loops poking out of a thick layer of resin under the main cabin sole. That must be the pigs. Getting them out is not an option - especially since there's water around them. Exposing them would give me two very large leaks in my bilge.

I've had a recent survey, during haul out - just two months ago. Whether it was a "good" survey is another question. My experience with surveyors is that they can be "highly variable." Ask 5 surveyors, get 10 different answers... I'm not a person to succumb to delusional optimism, and the prospect of a soft waterlogged hull doesn't give me the warm fuzzies. If there is a problem, there is too little time to correct it. Once I throw that factor into the risk matrix, things don't look good for a 2,000 mile exposure to the high seas.

Thanks very much for the info.

sleddog
05-27-2016, 12:30 PM
I'm posting my results here in case someone can find a fault in my logic. Conclusion: Assuming moderate wind, seastates and significant time spent sailing on a reach point of sail with ahead to abeam seas, the race could not be completed within the required 21 days. ... sufficient power for the boat would not be available from the water generator at speeds below 4.8 knots,


Much of the on-the-water testing of the Hamilton Ferris water generator was conducted aboard my 27 foot sloop WILDFLOWER, with Mr. Ferris, while sailing out of Santa Cruz in the late '70's. I can vouch for the fact that best electrical generation occurs at speeds between 5-7 knots. Above or below those speeds, there is little effective power generated.

My 2 cents is that using a HF water generator on a small boat racing to Hawaii is a bit like a dog chasing its tail. Direct observation aboard WILDFLOWER, using a variety of different propellers, found the HF water generator drag slowed the boat speed 10-15%, or the equivalent of 2-3 days on a SHTP race, depending on conditions, Certainly the water generator is a good deal when in cruising mode. But where boat speed matters, especially trying to get to Hanalei in under 21 days, I'm not sure a water generator is a viable solution to provide means of charging and get to the finish in the desired time.

pbryant
05-27-2016, 02:50 PM
Much of the on-the-water testing of the Hamilton Ferris water generator was conducted aboard my 27 foot sloop WILDFLOWER, with Mr. Ferris, while sailing out of Santa Cruz in the late '70's. I can vouch for the fact that best electrical generation occurs at speeds between 5-7 knots. Above or below those speeds, there is little effective power generated.

My 2 cents is that using a HF water generator on a small boat racing to Hawaii is a bit like a dog chasing its tail. Direct observation aboard WILDFLOWER, using a variety of different propellers, found the HF water generator drag slowed the boat speed 10-15%, or the equivalent of 2-3 days on a SHTP race, depending on conditions, Certainly the water generator is a good deal when in cruising mode. But where boat speed matters, especially trying to get to Hanalei in under 21 days, I'm not sure a water generator is a viable solution to provide means of charging and get to the finish in the desired time.

Sleddog, I agree with your conclusions. I've covered every usable inch of my boat with solar panels, including hanging panels between the shrouds - but I just don't have that much deck area on my Ariel. I've found wind generators to be very disappointing, especially sailing downwind. My logic was that, once I'm up to hull speed my velocity is constrained by the hull speed limitation, and the extra drag from the water generator wouldn't matter. But so heavily loaded, I never got to hull speed while I watched my batteries dwindle. Mine is a problem of proportions. If I only had a diesel to drive an alternator... or a bigger boat.

dhusselman
05-27-2016, 07:29 PM
Sleddog, I agree with your conclusions. I've covered every usable inch of my boat with solar panels, including hanging panels between the shrouds - but I just don't have that much deck area on my Ariel. I've found wind generators to be very disappointing, especially sailing downwind. My logic was that, once I'm up to hull speed my velocity is constrained by the hull speed limitation, and the extra drag from the water generator wouldn't matter. But so heavily loaded, I never got to hull speed while I watched my batteries dwindle. Mine is a problem of proportions. If I only had a diesel to drive an alternator... or a bigger boat.

You could buy TIJD (First 30JK) from me. The boat is ready to go. All the gear you need. You can hop on, do the qualifier and sail to Hawaii...

Dirk "TIJD" First 30JK

pogen
05-28-2016, 12:19 AM
Well if you want to trade your sport sedan for a family station wagon...

The Smokester
05-29-2016, 07:31 AM
You could buy TIJD (First 30JK) from me. The boat is ready to go. All the gear you need. You can hop on, do the qualifier and sail to Hawaii...

Dirk "TIJD" First 30JK

Can we take it for a test ride first? I'd like to schedule mine for July 2 if that's convenient for you.

todd22123
06-03-2016, 07:27 AM
I am starting, again today, at about noon, a second attempt at the qualifying sail.

Tracker https://share.delorme.com/ToddOlsen

Also, should be able to see AIS within range "Windtrip Infinity"

dhusselman
06-03-2016, 07:55 AM
I am starting, again today, at about noon, a second attempt at the qualifying sail.

Tracker https://share.delorme.com/ToddOlsen

Also, should be able to see AIS within range "Windtrip Infinity"

Looks like you will have a good weather window.

Good luck. Have fun out there!

Dirk "TIJD" First 30JK

The Smokester
06-03-2016, 08:10 AM
I am starting, again today, at about noon, a second attempt at the qualifying sail.

Tracker https://share.delorme.com/ToddOlsen

Also, should be able to see AIS within range "Windtrip Infinity"

Hey. Good luck out there. I had a great time although the 24 hours becalmed off the Farallons were frustrating to say the least. I hope you have great shoreside support like I did. That really helped keep my spirits up. We will be tracking you with the greatest enthusiasm. Weather looks good for a quick run.

PS Don't see your tracker online yet...Make sure the filters are set correctly.

Philpott
06-03-2016, 10:56 AM
I am starting, again today, at about noon, a second attempt at the qualifying sail.

Tracker https://share.delorme.com/ToddOlsen

Also, should be able to see AIS within range "Windtrip Infinity"

Wow! Great! Of course I knew you would do it!

pogen
06-03-2016, 11:52 AM
I am starting, again today, at about noon, a second attempt at the qualifying sail.

Tracker https://share.delorme.com/ToddOlsen

Also, should be able to see AIS within range "Windtrip Infinity"

Well at 1150 he is near Pier 39 heading out, but he seem to have his AIS turned off.

AIS: https://www.vesselfinder.com/vessels/WINDTRIP-INFINITY-IMO-0-MMSI-338182536

Good luck!

pogen
06-03-2016, 12:09 PM
Weather looks very benign this weekend, good timing!

The Smokester
06-03-2016, 12:13 PM
Well at 1150 he is near Pier 39 heading out, but he seem to have his AIS turned off.

AIS: https://www.vesselfinder.com/vessels/WINDTRIP-INFINITY-IMO-0-MMSI-338182536

Good luck!

AIS working now. Past Alcatraz and nearing the GGB.

DaveH
06-03-2016, 01:11 PM
tracker is up as well... 392nm miles to go...

pogen
06-03-2016, 07:26 PM
Looks like he may have turned back for the Gate about 45 min ago... or maybe just beating around to rack up (nautical) miles?

todd22123
06-04-2016, 10:46 PM
At about 6:45 yest PM, I just decided I did not want to be out there overnight, so I turned around and headed back.

The scopolamine helped with the sea sickness, although, it is difficult to maintain it stuck to my head, so I stuck it to my belly, under a couple bandaids. Definitely feel the dry mouth and blurry vision.

Late afternoon, the wind picked up to high teens, and there was plenty of spray and splashing water up on deck, so I went below, it was very loud, wore ear plugs, got sick again. The weather window is probably ideal right now, but I just didn't feel like staying out overnight.

The weather was low clouds with visibility of a mile or less. There was fairly dense fog near the golden gate both ways. A tug boat, towing a barge, called me, by boat name, to let me know a couple ships were outbound and that he would be turning to port soon. We were only 0.4 nm apart, similar course, and I could not see any sign of the tug or barge.

Thanks to all those who sent me messages. Particularly Jackie, with "remember to throw up to leeward."

Philpott
06-05-2016, 02:28 AM
Todd, I see from your registration that you have significant years of experience offshore. Windtrip Infinity has a Class B Transmit and Receive AIS. And yet you couldn't identify the tug in dense fog. That would be a heart stopper for me. We all watched your progress online and I'm sure I speak for others who were sorry to see you turn north and then east. But again, tugs in dense fog. Big ships passing in the night. Or not. Thanks for checking in here. Every bit shared is something learned by others.

Paul Elliott
06-05-2016, 03:13 PM
For next time, I will:
[...]
Try 1/2 scopolamine patch. The side effects can include, "confusion, agitation, extreme fear, hallucinations, unusual thoughts or behavior". I already know I will hallucinate, I did this time, so I do not want to further encourage this. I may just do a day trip out to the Gulf of the Farallones on the medication, me in and out of the cabin, testing things out.

FWIW, I've heard warnings about cutting a Scop patch in half. Apparently the medication can escape via the cut edge and give you quick and strong dose, rather than the regular time-release. This may be an urban legend or something, but you might look into it before trying this at sea.

Have you tried Bonine or non-drowsy Dramamine (same thing)? I've been advised to start taking the seasick meds a couple of days before heading out. Bonine and an early start do work for me -- by the time I'm sailing I've acclimatized to the side-effects, and I'm not gettting seasick (as I often do without the meds).

The Smokester
06-05-2016, 05:37 PM
Todd, You might try sturgeron. And if you need anything please let me know. Best, John

todd22123
06-05-2016, 05:57 PM
Thanks Paul- I did decide that cutting the scopolamine patch was not the thing to do. I put sunscreen on, after the patch, and that removed one patch, and another subsequent. Yes, I will try bonine next time, generic name is meclizine. Agree with starting before the trip.

Jackie- thanks for your support and encouragement. I was a little disappointed in myself, and I told my daughter, 12 yo, and she said, "Why be disappointed? It's supposed to be fun, and you weren't having fun. It's a hobby, for you at least." She could have left off the "for you at least", but she knows she is looking at a weekend hacker, as far as my sailing ability is concerned.

I did not want to leave anyone with the wrong impression RE the tug towing barge. He and I were on the same course and close to each other from the light ship, all the way down the shipping channel, nearly the same speed. I stayed to the right side of the channel, to avoid outbound traffic, and I knew he was a tug towing a barge, approx 0.4 nm away. I was able to see him on the AIS, including his speed, heading, bearing, etc. I just meant I could not see any sign of his lights. It was cool of him to call me to tell me there were two tankers outbound and he would be turning to port shortly, as this would bring us closer together, and I did not know how far back his barge was. My AIS transmitter allowed him to know I was the sailboat Windtrip Infinity. I had heard, in the past, that tug boat operators do not like to talk to recreational boaters. I wish I had thought to ask him if he saw me on his radar. I had radar reflector up.