PDA

View Full Version : Pelagic Autopilot - any experiences?



Foolish
12-06-2016, 10:47 AM
I'm looking for a new autopilot for my Olson 30 after my 10 year old Raymarine finally died. I see California company Pelagic is claiming several users from our group (http://pelagicautopilot.com) including an Olson 30 and other boats of similar ilk. What are your experiences with it? Can it handle 20-25 knot winds with a spinnaker?

From the website I can't figure out if they just sell the computer, or if they also have a ram, rudder sensor and control head. Comments are welcome.

pogen
12-06-2016, 03:41 PM
Over half the SHTP fleet this past year had Pelagic I think. The owner is an SSS member of some repute. What repute? Well, some!

Superb bang for buck, excellent course keeping (including under spin at 25+), wind-steer mode available, actuator strong enough for an Olson 34 (or bigger) let alone an Olson 30.

Very good customer service and support. Buy one before marketing catches up with product quality and they raise the prices! ;)

BobJ
12-06-2016, 05:29 PM
Just don't wire the Pelagic's actuator (ram) in parallel with your Raymarine ACU (thinking you'll be able to switch between AP's on the fly). The owner - whose last name sounds a lot like that German dishwasher company - will have to rewire a smoking motor drive box. Ask me how I know this...

Andy, I've had the Pelagic actuator for almost two years and it still runs as smoothly as when I installed it. I installed the Pelagic controller and motor drive box last weekend - well, sort of (see above).

Yes, it's a complete system. There's no separate rudder reference (it doesn't seem to need it) and the heading sensor is inside the controller box. This means you need to be careful and strategic about how you install the controller box.

Pelagic is the bees knees.

DaveH
12-06-2016, 10:14 PM
Truth be told, my pelagic steered my entire SHTP this year, excepting perhaps an hour getting out the gate and about 45minutes of fluky transition around the Farallons.
Never even turned the Alpha Pilot on.

Appears to have worked out alright.

DH

svShearwater
12-07-2016, 07:03 PM
Dave, were you using the Pelagic controller as well, or did you have the ram interfaced to something else?

svShearwater
12-07-2016, 07:03 PM
Didn't the first to finish Olson 30 use a Pelagic as well?

DaveH
12-08-2016, 09:11 AM
yes, using the Pelagic controller.
Interfaced that to my B&G wind instruments via NMEA 0183 [you'd have to talk to Brian about that SeaTalk bullshit], which worked OK until I lost the windex after my 2nd or 3rd round down.
after that in compass/gyro mode.

DH

Foolish
12-08-2016, 09:52 AM
Thanks Guys. I had a long chat with Brian yesterday and I've decided that this is the way to go. I like the fact that he has integrated the course computer, compass and control head into one unit. I wonder why the others don't do that. I'll be placing my order soon. At this price I can't go wrong. The Olson 30 is a darned twitchy boat downwind in a blow. We'll see if it can handle it.

pogen
12-08-2016, 09:57 AM
In my case I already had a below-decks hydraulic Nexus A/P, interfaced to the main instrument bus. The Pelagic was a completely independent system in the cockpit, in part for redundancy. Also, the Pelagic has lower power consumption and is quieter when you are trying to sleep, compared to the below deck unit. I bought a spare Pelagic ram as well, as a backup, and it was needed on the return delivery.

I'm pretty sure the whole Pelagic system with spare ram was less money than a backup Nexus hydraulic ram only.

BobJ
12-08-2016, 11:32 AM
yes, using the Pelagic controller.
Interfaced that to my B&G wind instruments via NMEA 0183 [you'd have to talk to Brian about that SeaTalk bullshit], which worked OK until I lost the windex after my 2nd or 3rd round down.
after that in compass/gyro mode.

DH

In anticipation of installing the Pelagic, I bought an Actisense NGW-1 STNG converter (my system is SeaTalkNG). But I think the Pelagic presently only accepts AWA (not TWA). Steering to AWA could certainly cause you to round down as AWA goes forward on a surf. I need to ask Brian about this.

DaveH
12-08-2016, 11:58 AM
There are some beta protocols with my unit re wind angle, but leaving that aside, my round downs were actually caused by sea state.
most were in fact not in wind mode.
100% were due to cross sea induced rig oscillation. And perhaps pushing a tad too hard.

The sequence would go something like this:
heading roughly WSW surfing on large (15-18') storm driven swell train.
leftover NW tradewind swell kicks stern to leeward
AP corrects course, but rudder action induces rig oscillation leading to occasional pole plant.

DH

BobJ
12-08-2016, 01:04 PM
Uh oh, we might be getting another call from the SHTP Marketing Dept.

From what he said last weekend I think Brian is playing with a heel factor in the gyro software - I assume both to leeward and in the "rig oscillation" direction. What a tactful term...

I have the urge to post a video but I'll give Bartz a break and not post his famous one. This one turned out better - the boat didn't end up on the bricks in front of the StFYC:

Archie 35 cockpit rinse. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE72zWivuws)

DaveH
12-08-2016, 01:41 PM
That's why I didn't mention the accompanying a** pucker that is exponentially proportional to the amount of "rig oscillation". oops.

I am aware of that there are positive developments on the oscillation damping profile. yes, works in both directions
essentially it is roll compensation effected with small rudder movements. Beta version working well from my understanding.

DH

svShearwater
12-08-2016, 05:53 PM
In case anyone is wondering about it, we had no problem getting the Apparent Wind from a B&G Triton system talking NMEA 2000 to go through an Actisense converter to talk NMEA 0183 to the Pelagic controller.

Is anyone using something other than a Pelagic Controller to activate the Pelagic ram? Thinking of redundancy. Having 2 Pelagic rams and the ability to use a Pelagic controller and something like a B&G controller seems like a reasonable way to roll.

BobJ
12-08-2016, 06:17 PM
I've used the Pelagic actuator (ram) for almost two years with my Raymarine X5 and more recently, Raymarine EV-200. I had to change the Raymarine's settings because the Pelagic ram responds differently - there's a discussion of this somewhere on this forum - but once you do that the B&G controller should drive it just fine. Whichever controller you have is just sending a plus or minus pulse to the ram anyway - on mine it wasn't using SeaTalk to talk to the ram.

Critter
12-09-2016, 11:43 AM
Likewise, I've been using my Raymarine X5 control to drive the Pelagic ram for about a year and a half I think. I had to spend a lot of time tweaking the settings on the X5 after I sent it in for some sort of repair, but that was with the Raymarine ram. It's working pretty well now with either the Raymarine or Pelagic ram, except that it tacks rather slowly. I guess a little more tuning is in order.

BobJ
12-09-2016, 12:10 PM
If you tell the Raymarine the hardover time is 10-12 sec's (instead of 5 sec), the Pelagic ram will act more like the Raymarine ram and your tacks will be about right. With the EV-200 (not sure about the X5) you can't have a rudder reference in the system though, or changes to hardover time are ignored.

Understood about liking your boat. It's like looking at other women... and I better leave it at that.

Critter
12-09-2016, 01:27 PM
:rolleyes: and thanks for the tip.

Sailronin
04-10-2017, 12:18 PM
I ordered a Pelagic system last week for my Olson 29. Have had good comms with Brian with lots of questions, patient man.
Dave

Sailronin
05-22-2017, 06:54 AM
I just finished installing the Pelagic autopilot on Ronin, my Olson29. Went in without a hitch and worked great this weekend. I've posted a video on YouTube look up Olson 29 Ronin for a quick look at the Pelagic in action.

Foolish
05-22-2017, 03:33 PM
Thanks for the videos. Very nice install job. I'd love to see the Pelagic handling your boat in 20-25 knots with the chute up. Let us know when you make that video.

Sailronin
05-22-2017, 04:40 PM
Hi Andrew,
Yes, I'm looking forward to that as well. This weekend for the initial testing I kept it to working sails as I get used to response times and using the remote control. Hopefully it will work as well in following seas and higher winds.
The control head next to the companion way will eventually be recessed into the cabin once I get a box made so it will be flush with the cabin side and won't get snagged on lines. It was just mounted quickly for the testing.
Best regards,
Dave

BobJ
05-22-2017, 05:29 PM
I couldn't bring myself to cut another big hole in the boat so I mounted the Pelagic control box in the lower drop board. The board needs to fit tight and not vibrate.

Brian gave me a prototype bezel and it turned out pretty well. Now it looks like he has sexier off-white bezels on his website - maybe if I ask nicely he'll sell me one.

2422

Seeing this photo reminds me that I still need to scrape off that excess clear silicone. Oh and a minor quibble with Brian's new control box labels: "Standbye" ?

Sailronin
05-22-2017, 09:38 PM
I like that mounting Bob.
I have old Signet gauges that are dead so need to put a piece of wood or G10 to fill those holes and will just mount the control on the new plate.

AlanH
06-21-2017, 02:21 PM
Control plate is "waterproof"?

I also have some extra bulkhead holes I can use.

Sailronin
06-22-2017, 06:40 AM
Yes, the control box is waterproof so OK to mount outside.

AlanH
06-23-2017, 12:48 PM
Does anybody want to comment on control head placement, cable runs, and SSB tuner and antenna installation?

PSutchek
03-26-2020, 12:09 AM
Hello all , I have the pelegic set up in my cal20 , I'd like to add an inexpensive wind indicator so that it can drive upwind and downwind during shifts...

So , is there an inexpensive head that incorporates into the pelegic easily ?

Thank you
Paul Sutchek
Cal20 1510 Sláinte

BobJ
03-26-2020, 08:58 AM
Brian can confirm, but my Pelagic accepted apparent wind data in generic NMEA 0183. So get a birdie that outputs that. If you get a Raymarine birdie like I had on Rags, you'll need something to convert the data from SeaTalk to NMEA 0183 first, and that adds to the cost and slows the signal.

PSutchek
03-26-2020, 11:52 AM
Yes , Brian and pelegic mentioned the converter , I'm pretty new to sailing , never have bought a birdie before... I don't know which output what signals ,, I had found a solid state wind on Ebay , but I didn't know
the converter would slow down the signal...

What unit do you have on your new boat Bob ?

BobJ
03-26-2020, 01:30 PM
If you have to convert the signal the slowing is probably milliseconds - not a big deal - just extra cost.

My masthead "birdie" is a B&G 608. It forms the end of the boat's NMEA 2000 backbone so if the PCB fails (up at the top of the mast) the whole system can go down.

Go cheap - go simple!

tiger beetle
03-26-2020, 02:36 PM
My masthead "birdie" is a B&G 608. It forms the end of the boat's NMEA 2000 backbone so if the PCB fails (up at the top of the mast) the whole system can go down.

I'm just learning about NMEA 2000 networking, having installed the initial bits into Beetle to support a chart plotter. Do you carry a spare NMEA 2000 terminator/resistor to keep the network up if the masthead unit fails?

- rob/beetle

BobJ
03-26-2020, 02:47 PM
Yes. I tested it (replacing the masthead unit's plug) but not everything came back up. I'll get a pro involved soon, and that issue will be on the list.

brianb
03-26-2020, 08:06 PM
Hello Paul, and the bird watchers here.
The NMEA2000 wind sensor might have a very fast response time, maybe 10 readings per second. On the NMEA2000 (N2K) they may transmit the same data many more times per second than that. Wind data is typically heavily filtered (and this is often adjustable) because it bounces around so much with boat motion. This filtering slows the rate of meaningful wind data that is transmitted. A really high end sensor will do a more advanced form of filtering that results in a faster result. If your boat is a foiler, hitting speeds north of 20 knots, and you are blasting down the bay, on autopilot, you are are going to want that super fast data, to make decisions rapidly to stay on that foil. The last time I saw your boat I did not see any foils ? OK, when you put the wind sensor into a NMEA0183 converter it will only pass data through a couple times per second. On a typical boat, like my Olson 34, that is ok in terms of altering course with wind shifts. Going upwind, tight on the wind, you would prefer something quicker as a quick shift, that is slowed by say 2 to 3 seconds, accounting for NMEA delay and the sensor plus AP filtering, will maybe begin to stall the sail before the rudder accounts for the shift. Wind steering in a NMEA0183 system is not bad, but for the ultimate in response one really needs to get very fast instruments that are integrated well with the AP manufacturers system. These types of systems, the usual high vendors supply, really depend on using their proprietary instruments as they are all tuned and tested together during development. Maybe this helps ? BTW, the AC boats, and many ocean race boats place a wind sensor on a stern post so that off wind they sensor is not impacted by the sails turbulent flow. Also, makes for a good back up.

Brian

PSutchek
03-27-2020, 03:26 AM
Here's what I'm getting at , there Is no recommended units that I know of ....

Love the idea of a stern Post ,,, no wire up the mast ! , also there isn't really any "top plate" on a cal20 mast head to screw anything to... so , more expensive equals faster response cheaper/ or units with converters equals slower response , guess im going to half to take a guess....

solosailor
03-27-2020, 09:41 AM
Somehow I've managed to not have wind instruments on any of my boats...... yet. Certainly don't see needing one on a Cal20.

everydaysailor
03-28-2020, 12:58 PM
Stern post works just fine off the breeze- pretty sure it was a conversation with Brian that steered me that way. I mounted a wireless transducer to a carbon pole for the last Pac cup and put its wireless readout under the boom. Same numbers as hardwired masthead unit. All Raymarine incl EV0 100 which did great. Still, Pelagic is my next purchase for my Express 27 as backup.

PSutchek
04-07-2020, 05:11 PM
Somehow I've managed to not have wind instruments on any of my boats...... yet. Certainly don't see needing one on a Cal20.

Well , with 7 hours out to the SE farallon , I'd like to chill down below for 20 to 30 min while the palegic sails itself

solosailor
04-07-2020, 09:07 PM
The nifty remote is your new friend.

Philpott
04-07-2020, 10:00 PM
The nifty remote is your new friend.

It’s true. I love my remote. Keep it on a lanyard, close to my heart. Seriously. It's the tiniest, flimsy thing. And when it stops working? I just replace the battery and it works again. Technology. Huh! That such a small thing can make big heavy Dura Mater change course.

pogen
04-08-2020, 09:50 AM
It’s true. I love my remote. Keep it on a lanyard, close to my heart. Seriously. It's the tiniest, flimsy thing. And when it stops working? I just replace the battery and it works again. Technology. Huh! That such a small thing can make big heavy Dura Mater change course.

I suggest purchasing a backup and keep it below in a dry container, in case the one on your person gets drenched or lost.

Foolish
04-08-2020, 10:51 AM
I just realized that I started this discussion some years ago so I should give an update. After several years of sailing with just a bungee cord (launching and dousing in 25 knots is lots of fun) I've finally got my Pelagic installed and working. We had significant trouble getting it to communicate with my Raymarine ST40 Wind instrument. I had to buy an Actisense unit to go in between the Raymarine and the Pelagic. I'll tell you that the Actisense guy was something of an ass and I would recommend finding an alternative if possible. But Brian with Pelagic was terrific and put a whole lot of work into getting it working, so I am very happy to recommend him.

So far I've been very happy with the Pelagic handling upwind in up to 25 knots. It kept my speed up nicely when beating into the wind. I need to work more on the settings when on a beam reach. The boat wants to turn up, and doesn't come back down for a while. Deep down wind (165 apparent) in 20-25 knots, I also need to work on the settings a little more. I did have a couple of broaches, but nothing overly terrible. It took some time for the Pelagic to steer down again, even if I released the sheet. So I'll work on this some more too.

Here is a photo of the control head (lower left) and drive arm on my Olson 30. I'm happy overall.
And for the remote control, I have it inside a soft waterproof cell phone holder, and tied to my harness.
5260

PSutchek
04-08-2020, 01:14 PM
What settings are you referring to ? Im only aware of a gain control.... im not sure ive heard of any others...... thanks
Paul

PSutchek
04-08-2020, 01:15 PM
Also , I thought the control head had to be mounted forward or facing aft , depending OB what unit you purchased , yours looks mounted 90 degrees off ???

Foolish
04-08-2020, 02:45 PM
"Settings" would refer to the Gain AND the sail trim. Both of these are really important in high wind situations. Your sails will always overpower your rudder. As I said in my book, it's really important to have the spinnaker pole at 90 degrees to the wind, and to have the spinnaker luff just at the point of curl. It's fun to watch the boat head up a bit, and the spinnaker collapse, and then the boat head back down again and the spinnaker fill, with just the autopilot driving. I've been driving by hand for several years now, so I've got to get back to the habit of absolutely perfect sail trim for an autopilot in a breeze.

I told Brian about the control head position before he built the unit, and he built it with the compass sensor aimed sideways. This is the same place where I had my Raymarine unit mounted, and I wanted to keep it there. By the way, the mounting hole from my Raymarine drive was perfect for the Pelagic. And also the extender that I had built for the Raymarine screwed perfectly into the Pelagic.

And by the way, I hope you all notice that I still have my bungee cord/rope setup in place, hanging under the tiller. You should all do this, because you never know when Auto is going to fail. (Hint, it will be at the worst possible moment.)

Foolish
04-11-2020, 06:17 PM
(Hint, it will be at the worst possible moment.)

Ha! Who'd have thought I'd come up with the perfect example, just two days later. I'm out and the wind comes up to 18 so I put in a reef. But I didn't cleat the halyard properly and it popped, letting the sail drop down the mast and shaking like Elvis. This blew out all the rivets holding the boom to the gooseneck. Just when I go to the mast to fix that, the entire electrical system fails and the autopilot shuts down. Thankfully I connected my ever-handy bungee cord to the tiller, and was able to lash the boom back in place and raise the reefed sail again. So I still had a nice sail when the winds came up to 25.
5268
A day later and the boom is fixed and I think I've figured out that it was bad battery connections.

So the moral of the story is that you can trust your autopilot, but when the seafoam hits the fan, a bungee cord will always get you out of a pinch!

AlanH
05-24-2020, 07:55 AM
So, I've messed around with bungee cords and rope, quite a bit and never found a setup that works at all on my boat. My S2 7.9 has a characteristic which come to find out, all the 7.9's and 9.1's, share. Those designs have a similar MORC-type hull shape and transom-hung rudder. I cannot let go of the rudder for even two seconds, or the tiller will immediately swing to the leeward side and round the boat up. With the one-design rudder, I had one second, and the round up was truly ~Immediate~.. With the non-kickup rudder that I built, it's better, I get a second and a half, maybe two if it's not blowing too hard. In 20 knots, I have half a second. You can imagine that singlehanded tacks in any sort of wind are entertaining, without an autopilot. The rudder never loads up, it's freaking enormous for a 26 foot boat, but there is NO stability.

Every rope and bungee cord setup I've tried will keep the boat on course for about five seconds. By ten seconds, we're 20-30 degrees off. On my Cal 20 I could go to windward with a rope/bungee thing set up, for half an hour....did it many times sailing up from Redwood City to San Francisco. The H-Boat, same thing, and tacking the H-Boat without an autopilot was simple. I never tried driving the H-Boat with a spinnaker up and bungee cord driving, but hoisting and dousing with a bungee were OK.

The Santana 30-30, also a MORC-type hull was much less stable in this sort of configuration, but with a lot of twiddling, I could get it to hold course for, say 30 seconds...enough time to pop down below for a sandwich. My Santana 30-30 had the Schock 34 rudder, BTW, significantly larger than the stock 3030 rudder. I learned a very disciplined approach to tacking the Santana 30-30 which I got to work, but wow, I had to move FAST. I would not dare to run the Santana with a chute up, unless I was steering, and hoists and douses were very difficult, really impossible in 20 knots or more.

Anyway, bungee cord / surgical tubing / rope /sheet-to-tiller systems work on lots of boats, but not ALL boats!

AntsUiga
06-07-2020, 12:10 PM
Brian's customer service is truly exemplary.

I sent in a used unit to checkout and software update. There was also an upgrade to a disconnect plug on the white box to make installation easier.

In addition to the bench testing, I received two videos with on the water testing. One with was hard on the wind and the second video was reaching. In both cases, the course heading was probably better than I could maintain (I am guessing less than 5 degrees of variation by looking at horizon).

I did not ask, but assume both courses were on compass mode rather than wind mode.

Thank you Brian!!

Ants

Foolish
08-06-2020, 08:50 AM
I'm having real trouble getting my Pelagic to perform as necessary on my Olson 30. I've got Raymarine ST40 instruments with the Actisense converter.

Downwind, in wind mode the boat swings 35-45 degrees back and forth, from rounding up to rounding down. I've tried response levels from 4-12 on my Raymarine wind instrument and gain levels up to 4.5 on the Pelagic. The wind vane is mounted on top of the mast.

Downwind, in compass mode, the Pelagic can handle up to 15 knots wind speed, but after that I'm rounding up every minute or two. Yesterday it was blowing 20 and I had constant problems. This is even in relatively smooth seas. And of course it doesn't recognize any wind shift in compass mode, so I can't leave the tiller at all, even to drop the jib.

When motoring with my outboard, I get large S-turns all the time. I moved the control head to a different location and got complete 360 circles. Not too good when I'm near the rock breakwater trying to pull my sails up.

Any ideas on how to solve these problems. If I can't sail in 20 knots down wind, the unit is of no value to me at all.

JakeJ
08-07-2020, 09:33 AM
I saw a few comments regarding the difficulty of getting the Pelagic to communicate with a wind instrument. Just to relay my experience, I installed my Pelagic almost 4 years ago along with a "Windsense" instrument by Digital Yacht - this setup worked instantly and has performed very well - bonus is that the Windsense will also wirelessly transmit to your phone or other device. Happy with my Pelagic after 4 years and countless miles.

BobJ
08-07-2020, 10:38 AM
Taking nothing away from Pelagic's founder and all the work he's put into these products, the Pelagic computer seems to work better on heavier and more directionally-stable boats. Andy's post is not the first complaint I've heard about problems with the full Pelagic system on lighter, faster boats. On Ragtime!, a 5,500# boat with a high SA/D ratio, I had more success with the Pelagic cockpit actuator mated to Raymarine belowdecks computers and heading sensors. I was also able to use both Apparent and True wind input, the latter being better for downwind stability.