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jakmang
06-23-2018, 01:48 PM
Looking at the new tracker. Wondering the details on reporting times and display times? The boats don't update that often right now. Can't see Elizabeth Ann and a few others.

Thanks,
-jak

pogen
06-23-2018, 04:09 PM
Nominally racers are instructed to set them to report every 4 hours. But they are under racer control, and some racers (e.g. Kynntana) have theirs set to what appears to be 15 minutes. It's a matter of how much attention they are willing to give to keeping the unit charged. Mouton Noirs current position report is exactly 4 hours old as I type, he is conserving power I guess.

At the moment, I see IRIS is missing from the tracker. Probably a Jibset hiccup. I've seen masses of boats vanish one day and reappear the next when reviewing the 2016 tracker. Don't worry, they haven't sunk, probably.

Philpott
06-23-2018, 04:21 PM
Don't worry, they haven't sunk, probably.

and if they have sunk they should wash in with the flood

BobJ
06-23-2018, 05:05 PM
What happened to Gregory (LIBRA)? The tracker shows him almost back to the Corinthian YC at 15:50.

Submarino
06-23-2018, 07:00 PM
What happened to Gregory (LIBRA)? The tracker shows him almost back to the Corinthian YC at 15:50.

reported to have primary AP issue, returning under light winds around pt belvedere when we left cyc deck 1 ish pm.

pogen
06-23-2018, 07:23 PM
OWL is doing quite well. Go the OWL!

I bet IRIS is a tracker equipment or data connection issue. Like maybe he didn't turn it on.

pogen
06-23-2018, 07:32 PM
Don't forget to hit the WIND DISPLAY button at the top of the full tracker page at Jibeset. Trippy.

CindyS
06-23-2018, 07:50 PM
Charley Casey looks like he's doing great on Riff Rider!
I'm really proud to be part of his crew bringing the boat back home!

BobJ
06-23-2018, 09:50 PM
It appears Mouton Noir is heading back. Per Marine Traffic (AIS), at 2120 he was on a heading of 50 degrees at 2.9 knots.

DaveH
06-24-2018, 04:46 AM
Mouton Noir is confirmed eastbound from the latest tracker updates.
It appears that most of the fleet has parked up over the last few hours with the arrival of the dreaded Southerly Surge.
Riff Rider may be the only one still in the gradient breeze, at least for the time being.

DH

pogen
06-24-2018, 01:17 PM
Mouton Noir is at Marina Village, Alameda, per AIS this morning. Bummer. Hope he is OK.

pogen
06-24-2018, 01:25 PM
Elizabeth Ann is heading for Bodega Bay. Strange.

pogen
06-24-2018, 01:32 PM
The Great Wall of Offshore California


3569

Philpott
06-24-2018, 02:44 PM
Elizabeth Ann is heading for Bodega Bay. Strange.

Gary might be going home to Oregon. With his experience sailing up the coast is probably a walk in the park.

DaveH
06-24-2018, 02:56 PM
Not to mention riding the southerly while it is there.
Gary officially retired and reported that he planned to head for Bodega Bay.

DH

pogen
06-24-2018, 04:32 PM
Can the Race Committee comment on IRIS's non-presence on the tracker?

And if racers retire, will they be announcing it anywhere?

DaveH
06-24-2018, 04:59 PM
IRIS is now on the tracker, he had checked in via radio & email, but had issues with the Tracker settings. Now displaying.

Retirements have been posted for MOUTON NOIR, ELIZABETH ANN & LIBRA on the event site, Jibeset, and now here.
also note the RC Notes tab on the tracker detail page, which holds a log of RC notes regarding the display.

Fair point, however, I will start an RC Updates thread.

DH

tiger beetle
06-26-2018, 09:21 AM
Is there a way to obtain position reports for a competitor? The tracker doesn't seem to support past position reports, at least not that I could find, and the SHTP web site for 'position reports' doesn't have position reports.

For example, I can select Kynntana and see the track, but not individual position reports.

Is there a way to obtain the lat/lon course/speed information from an individual tracker?

- rob/beetle

Aussie
06-26-2018, 11:03 AM
To access more data from the SHTP tracking

Estimated finish times ----> Click Estimated Finish

Wind, waves etc overlays ----> Click Wind Display

RC Notess ----> Click RC Notes


Additional Boat data:

Current position datas ----> Click Marker at end of Boats track

Display ALL Boats in a fleet<s>----> Check Fleet Number box<s>, uncheck My Boats, Click Refresh Screen

Display an individual boats ----> Check Boat box for boats of interest, uncheck My Boats, Click Refresh Screen

All position data ----> Check Details Markers the All Race option

----> Displays start and finish markers, great circle route, rhumb line route

----> For each boat selected, displays a marker for each position report - dots along the track

----> Click the dot marker<s> to see the position data, COG and SOG at that position

AlanH
06-26-2018, 11:14 AM
Carliane turns hard to port....odd. Hope she's OK.

DaveH
06-26-2018, 11:19 AM
Which is all good information on the tracker from Ray.
Rob's original question prompted me to add a thread which will hold the "As Seen By The Racers" daily reports, both here (http://sfbaysss.org/forum/showthread.php?2151-Race-Committee-Updates-and-Reports) and on the SHTP Site under position reports.

Not up to the minute info; but what the racers are allowed to know.

DH

tiger beetle
06-26-2018, 12:04 PM
Thanks, Ray - the Details Markers -> All Race radio button made the historical track positions available through the tracker. That was exactly what I was looking for.

Thanks much!

- rob/beetle

BobJ
06-26-2018, 12:49 PM
Carliane turns hard to port....odd. Hope she's OK.

It was just a Crazy Ivan. No worries.

AlanH
06-26-2018, 01:22 PM
It was just a Crazy Ivan. No worries.

On my boat we all those "crazy Alans"... Aaaah, headed back towards Hawaii, again! LOL

pogen
06-26-2018, 01:49 PM
Several racers are being sucked right by the centripetal force of the High. Joujou, Passages, Double X. Kynntana clearly wanted to put some South in the bank. At least Crazy Left Ivan is more understandable than the Crazy Right move that a boat made in 2014.

I hope Kynntana's satphone bill is not too high at the end -- she is reporting position every 10 minutes.

AlanH
06-26-2018, 02:39 PM
Several racers are being sucked right by the centripetal force of the High. Joujou, Passages, Double X. Kynntana clearly wanted to put some South in the bank. At least Crazy Left Ivan is more understandable than the Crazy Right move that a boat made in 2014.

I hope Kynntana's satphone bill is not too high at the end -- she is reporting position every 10 minutes.

Is there a way to tell her through the daily com talk? Once an hour is more than plenty! Hell 2x a day is plenty!

pogen
06-26-2018, 03:23 PM
She probably has the Delorme power wired in to her panel. Or else the battery would have run out by now.

Meanwhile Double Espresso has spent the last 4+ hours drifting NW at a fraction of a knot. Hove to? Damaged? Hope he is OK.

tiger beetle
06-26-2018, 03:28 PM
I run Tiger Beetle's DeLorme inReach tracker/pinger on 10 minute intervals when Beetle is moving - the cost is 'included' as I am on a pre-paid monthly subscription service, so no additional charge for all the extra blue spots on the maps. These go out essentially as short burst messages over Iridium and consume very little bandwidth. The inReach will run roughly 4 days at that rate, and I recharge the battery daily - it's just a little USB cord I plug into the unit (which lives in a cradle at the nav station - it remains dry and transmits through the fiberglass).

If there were an incremental cost per spot, then I would set the location reporting frequency to meet what the data receiver would like to have.

I have no idea how tracking costs are being managed by the skippers and Race Committee.

- rob/beetle

tiger beetle
06-26-2018, 03:34 PM
Meanwhile Double Espresso has spent the last 4+ hours drifting NW at a fraction of a knot. Hove to? Damaged? Hope he is OK.

Or confused tracker. Looks like his tracker ran out of power and he re-started it, intervals are varying from 3-4 hours. My tracker will occasionally decide I'm in a different hemisphere... If a series of pings all show in the same location then the tracker is probably there, otherwise it's difficult to determine where the unit is based on a single location report.

- rob/beetle

pogen
06-26-2018, 03:44 PM
I thought the 4 hour interval was selected by the RC because that should let you do the whole race on a single charge. Last time the Delorme was the only approved unit, and there was a mandate that they be fixed to the stern rail. This year Iridium Go is allowed, with possible below-decks install and external antenna, like for a satphone. I don't know. Some boats are at 10 min ping, some at 30, many at 4 hours. I'm sure the billing varies depending on what device/company you have.

DaveH
06-26-2018, 04:53 PM
I run Tiger Beetle's DeLorme inReach tracker/pinger on 10 minute intervals when Beetle is moving - the cost is 'included' as I am on a pre-paid monthly subscription service, so no additional charge for all the extra blue spots on the maps......

I have no idea how tracking costs are being managed by the skippers and Race Committee.

- rob/beetle
This is exactly KYNTANNA's set up; Carliane is borrowing my tracker and account, so I happen to know it is pre-paid with unlimited pings.
The racers are responsible for the costs of their individual units and data plans.

BobJ
06-27-2018, 08:31 AM
These folks are dancing with the devil. PassageWeather has the high breathing in and out but staying mostly stationary. I hope so...

Kynntana's track has the look of one who's hand-steering (with very brief naps). I hope not...

Philpott
06-27-2018, 09:38 AM
Kynntana's track has the look of one who's hand-steering (with very brief naps). I hope not...

That would be bad, although she has a windvane. Hasn't responded to emails yet. I asked her: "Why did you turn right? Why did you turn left?" Cuz I think we all want to know :-)

pogen
06-27-2018, 10:05 AM
These folks are dancing with the devil. PassageWeather has the high breathing in and out but staying mostly stationary. I hope so...

Kynntana's track has the look of one who's hand-steering (with very brief naps). I hope not...

If you do the "All Race" option you can see that most of the fleet is still south or not too far north of the rhumbline. But many are on headings taking them to the north. Risky! But those trying to jibe south wind up on courses perpendicular to the best VMG. Painful.

tiger beetle
06-27-2018, 10:30 AM
If I had to guess, I would think Kynntana is sailing to a wind angle rather than a compass course; could be an autopilot set up to track wind angles, or perhaps Carlianne is working with her Monitor wind vane - the wind vane is an amazing apparatus to observe underway.

The gybes south should have to do with how deep Kynntana will sail effectively, which doesn't appear to be as deep as the other boats. I do not know the polars for the Freedon 38, therefore I do not know what the best gybe angles should be. Gybing south or east of south while in or approaching the ridge is usually not helpful for getting to Hanalei quickly - at that point you're kind of committed to where you exited the coastal flow off California.

Kynntana boat speed is remaining up and pointed in the right direction over many hours at a time, which makes me doubt she's hand steering. I can steer better than the autopilot for perhaps 45 minutes, after which I start to lose concentration and discover the autopilot is better at paying attention to course than I am!

- rob/beetle

hodgmo
06-27-2018, 10:40 AM
The Wind Display overlay tracker option is pretty interesting, with easy-to-understand forecasts. Selecting Waves and Swells gives an idea of the sea state; Advancing the time to noon on 4 July indicates some bumpy, confused-sea days near the end of the race, with the 992 L far to the East (if you believe a forecast that far in advance).

Philpott
06-27-2018, 10:40 AM
The night of the barbeque Mike Jefferson was still crouched on Kynntana's sugar scoop drilling into the Monitor Windvane's bracket. Or maybe he was drilling into the emergency rudder's bracket. Or maybe he was drilling into Kynntana's arch bracket. So much stainless, only a limited amount of time left. Lots of beautiful bling.

AlanH
06-27-2018, 02:46 PM
pppffffttt... and here I offered to drive up and help Carliane with any last minute hauling, scraping, bolting and carting and she turned me down!

Good thing, I wrenched my shoulder really badly Friday morning, but still.:D

Remember that a Freedom basically doesn't have a spinnaker. I haven't talked to Carliane about spinnakers for her boat for many months, but when we last left the topic, she'd decided to "let a Freedom be a Freedom", and that meant not messing with that dinky little symmetrical chute that they use. Has she got an assy since then? If not, then I would want to reach, not run, as long as possible with that ginormous mainsail.

CindyS
06-28-2018, 06:38 PM
For a tutorial on options for wind map, there's a tutorial that covers some basic functions-
http://www.maccinfo.com/Introduction_to_Windy.html

CindyS
06-28-2018, 10:58 PM
Carliane said her monitor was being a "stubborn beast" and had her wandering off course. I hope she isn't going to have a problem tomorrow with the direction she's currently heading?

tiger beetle
06-29-2018, 09:44 AM
For a tutorial on options for wind map, there's a tutorial that covers some basic functions-
http://www.maccinfo.com/Introduction_to_Windy.html

Thanks for the pointer to windy.com - I'd never seen that application before, fun to play around with.

- rob/beetle

pogen
06-29-2018, 11:31 AM
Carliane said her monitor was being a "stubborn beast" and had her wandering off course. I hope she isn't going to have a problem tomorrow with the direction she's currently heading?

She jibed since this post, now headed SW.

I'm not sure why she even has a windvane as primary autopilot. I believe she upgraded her electrical system significantly prior to the race, added solar panels and maybe a new battery system and alternator. An electric AP will steer well even in very light air -- getting through very light air patches is very important, and a windvane won't do it well and it is too tiring for a human.

tiger beetle
06-29-2018, 12:28 PM
I believe she upgraded her electrical system significantly prior to the race, added solar panels and maybe a new battery system and alternator.

Carlianne mentions "...I’ve been shutting fridge off during day to save power...", which suggests either she's low on power or doesn't yet trust the onboard power management system. I do not know which autopilot(s) she might have, nor do I know how much power is needed to steer a Freedom 38.

I have an Alpha Spectra pilot (two of them) and that unit uses 4-5 amps/hour to keep a 45' boat moving along. I also have a ComNav 1500 backup pilot and it pulls a steady 5-6 amps to keep the boat moving. That's a lot of power they go through in a 24 hour cycle. To keep everything going you have to learn to love your batteries :)

My guess is that the windy reach placed maximum power draw on the system to support the autopilot and her charging circuit didn't keep up with the pilot draw as much as she had hoped, so she switched over to the Monitor to preserve power on board. It's also possible an autopilot failed, though she hasn't mentioned such an occurrence. With a large single sail swung way off to one side weather helm would be something of an issue, particularly when running deep.

- rob

pogen
06-29-2018, 01:35 PM
I had a Nexus hydraulic ram with would draw > 6A when the motor was on, which might be 50% of the time. I supplemented with a Pelagic which drew far less power . When I did the SHTP, my fridge wiring failed sometime before the race, to the decision to save power by not running the fridge was made for me! I had AP failures on two of the three longer ocean races I did. My hydraulic ram was also damaged beyond use twice when I owned my own boat, and once with the new owner.

CindyS
06-29-2018, 09:36 PM
Carliane explained in racer news about the crazy turns, so I'm not as worried. She's doing amazing!

tiger beetle
07-01-2018, 12:17 AM
COG/SOG question
I was looking at the tracker data today, and it strikes me that the trackers are supplying position data - but the speed/course (SOG/COG) data appears to be calculated. Is this in fact the case, or do the COG/SOG values depend on the type of tracker and how it is configured? In my case, the inReach tracker does send out the COG/SOG as part of its position report; perhaps the tracker on Double Espresso does not.

24 Hour Run question
I was looking at Kynntana's most recent 24 hour run, from 29 June 23:26 to 30 June 23:28. Reported positions are:

29 June 23:26 - 32 deg 59' 15.51''N x 137 deg 28' 55.77''W
30 June 23:28 - 32 deg 12' 14.89''N x 139 deg 02' 23.25''W

based on an arbitrary point off Hanalei (where I am anchored right now) located at 22 deg 13.902'N x 159 deg 30.203'W, the 24 hour distance made good towards the finish line point is 91 miles. I need to go look up the actual line the boats are racing towards.

The distance between the the 29 June and 30 June position reports is 92 miles.

The tracker display reports the 24 hour run as 118 miles. This is entirely possible if the tracker is counting the distance actually sailed through the water as Kynntana advances along. If that's the case, a tracker reporting once every 24 hours would have shown a 24 hour run of 92 miles.

does anyone know how the tracker is calculating 24 hour distance run - e.g., distance between 24 hour points, or cumulative distance between all points in the past 24 hours? It might be fun to use the data to compute distance made goods towards the finish.

- rob/beetle

CindyS
07-01-2018, 01:22 AM
I watched Double Espresso's speed go down to around 4.5Kts awhile ago, it's now at 2.64Kts. I hope he's ok?

Aussie
07-01-2018, 08:29 AM
All trackers supported by Jibeset do not provide COG and SOG. COG and SOG shown on the track for point N are calculated from the time and position at point N and the time and position at point (N-1).

The last 24 hours data {Last: 24 HRS 161.4 NM at 6.7 KTS} is the sum of the distances between the reporting points in the last 24 hours = distance sailed.

On the Estimated Finish screen, the DMG is the change in DTG in the selected (6, 12, 18, 24) hours. The SMG is the DMG / Time Selected. The estimated TTG is the DTF / SMG.

sleddog
07-01-2018, 09:26 AM
All trackers supported by Jibeset do not provide COG and SOG. COG and SOG shown on the track for point N are calculated from the time and position at point N and the time and position at point (N-1).

Any explanation why DOUBLE EXPRESSO's SOG and COG is so erratic, varying from .2 knots to 17 knots and back?
Worrisome for supporters and RC. Can that be fixed?

pogen
07-01-2018, 10:46 AM
Erratic COG and SOG from a GPS are due to sampling errors. Speed and course are estimated from successive position calculations. If the error in position is large, the fluctuations in velocity will be very large as well. It doesn't mean anything much. Look at the average speed over the course of an hour instead.

Aussie
07-01-2018, 10:48 AM
There is no way to "fix" this. All we have to work with is the data received from the boat. In this cases it appears that DE send an incorrect position on 6/30 at 4:49AM. The following position at 8:48 having the correct position - hence the variation in the reported COG and SOG around those two points.

BobJ
07-01-2018, 10:54 AM
Ray, thanks for all this new info! More to watch.

tiger beetle
07-01-2018, 11:29 AM
Look at the average speed over the course of an hour instead.

That would work if the trackers actually worked; Double Espresso's tracking device certainly isn't performing up to snuff and produces various interesting position reports which in turn confound the folks trying to make sense of the data. It's also time-consuming to go backwards through the tracker data to locate the position reports for a specific time in order to make the calculations on a time average that's useful. But it's hardly the tracker display page's problem that Double Espresso's tracker is acting up.

The tracker data page is supplying two data elements that aren't relevant, and in my opinion are incorrect: COG/SOG (presented as if it were at the moment the tracker sent a report), and 24 hour run (presented as if it were distance made good towards the finish).

for example:
247 Degs at 6.71 Kts
Last: 24 HRS 183.1 NM at 7.6 KTS

What would be useful is COG/SOG at the time of position report - that would tell the audience something about current conditions on board. As it is, COG/SOG is just a calculation to handle advance over time between two points and doesn't contain any additional information beyond the Lat/Lon position reports. If the tracker messes up (as Double Espresso's does) then you get silly COG/SOG results.

The relevant 24 hour run data on a long race like this with various course options is distance made good towards the finish. The 24 hour run as presented in the tracker can tell you how much water the boat has sailed through; an artifact of this approach is that the more tracking points a boat produces the further that boat will have sailed through the water. But that doesn't tell you anything about how the boat has performed relative to any other boat in terms of getting to the finish line. Distance made good does provide data that can be compared across boats.

As an aside, I run Beetle's instruments on 8-second rolling averages, the value displayed in the cockpit are those rolling averages - this seems to be enough to dampen out changing GPS COG/SOG, boat speed, course, and wind speed/angle to produce information I can work with (though I do miss out on the high and low values).

- rob/beetle

dolfinbill
07-13-2018, 10:49 AM
"Tracker Details" seems like a good place to post this. Jacqueline was giving Dolfin the "doggy handshake" pretty much all the way across until pulling ahead at the end. I could see Mike on AIS the whole race but I don't transmit so he couldn't see me yet stayed right on my tail. Two days before the finish he crossed my track just 100 yards ahead after 1900 miles at sea. Here are some of the screen shots I took after realizing I couldn't shake him.

3610
3611
3612