Wind Vane

[bruce warren]

I'm new to this list and haven't seen any threads regarding wind vanes. In particular I'm interesting in anyone with experience with the Cape Horn model. The info on the web site is impressive [ www.capehorn.com] and i'm interested in getting user feedback.

[Ergo]

Hi Bruce. Welcome to the Forum. One of the mistakes I made in setting my boat up was researching thw heck out of wind vanes and buying what looked very impressive and state of the art. The vane I selected has broken each time I've used it in a TransPac. Forget the hype: buy a Monitor and if you have the time, buy it used. Used Monitors show up regularly in Latitude 38 for half of list price and as often as not some of them have never been installed.

Bill Merrick

[Alchera]

I can second the vote of confidence for the Monitor. I've had one through 5 transpacs and never had a problem. And if you buy the MRud attachment, you also meet the requirement for an emergency rudder.

- Mark

[Phil MacFarlane]

Third vote for the Monitor. It was the only self steering I had in the 2000 TP.

Also have the M-Rud.

Phil

[haulback]

Have not used a Cape Horn windvane, but have met a few people who have them, and they seem to think they are just fine. Only shortcoming I notice is that they usually have their linkage to the rudder INSIDE the boat - this takes up space and i am unsure how easy/convenient that are to engage and disengage from steering the boat.

I think any of the MAJOR windvane manufacturers are OK - everyone (almost) seems to swear by the one they have.

I have well over 50,000 miles on a Fleming 501. It has proven to be a reliable and robust piece of equipment. I would happily buy another one.

When looking for a windvane for my present boat (I had a Navik on the last one) Here are a few things I thought were important
1) ease of lifting oar out of water
2) distance of oar out of water when raised
3) ease of replacing steering lines in a hurry
4) brute strength of vane and attachment points to hull
5) minimum amount of linkage arms and levers


Jim/Haulback

[AlanH]

A Navik steered my Ranger 29 across to Hawaii in 1996 and worked great.

Another Navik was doing great in July 2008, but the underwater paddle exploded sometime in the middle of the night while I had the windvane "unhooked" and an autopilot was driving. It had driven me along just fine for the first 9 days of the SHTP in my Santa Cruz 27.

The Navik is really light, but it's not made any more so if you want one you'll have to buy a used one or score a deal on one that someone never took out of the box. It's getting really hard (read: next to impossible) to buy replacement parts. Also, the one real drawback to the Navik is that it's essentially impossible to pull the pendulum oar out of the water while the boat is moving. "impossible" might be exaggerating, but *Very Risky* to fingers and wrists and hands is no exaggeration at all. There's a reason I left the oar in the water that night.

I gotta agree with most of the above posts, unless you have a small boat, go with the Monitor.

[nereida]

One of the mistakes I made in setting my boat up was ... buying what looked very impressive and state of the art. The vane I selected has broken each time I've used it in a TransPac. ....

Bill Merrick


Hi, Bill (and Happy New Year to you and everyone else!)

I'm writing this from sub-zero (C) Sweden! ...I just wondered what was the model of your 'bad' windsteering gear?? I'm about to instal a Hydrovane, which has come thoroughly recommended by several reliable sources, on my new 'Nereida' - she's a centre-cockpit again (actually an up-dated version of my previous Najad) so a Monitor would be awkward. It also incorporates the 'emergency rudder' requirement of the SHTP....

Cheers,

[Ergo]

Hi Jeanne,

Best of luck with the new boat. The windvane I had was the Fleming with auxialiary rudder. As far as I know the Flemings without the aux. rudder are fine. The Aux. rudder model had design problems with the interface between the servo pendulum and the rudder. I really liked the concept - no lines to the cockpit and an independent emergency rudder that was self-steering. It would have been a great choice if it weren't so subject to breaking.

Bill

[nereida]

Thanks, Bill!

Sounds as though the Hydrovane could meet most of your requirements (seems to behave fine with auxiliary rudder but no servo-pendulum)... let's hope my experience with it comes up to expectations. (Keeping my fingers crossed - will keep you posted!) Certainly, the Fleming without auxiliary rudder sounds way more reliable than with, judging from Jim's experience. When it was moving freely, my old Windpilot (with auxiliary rudder AND servo-pendulum) worked fine - but the aluminium and seawater mix too often gave problems if it hadn't been used for even a short time, which is why I'm not getting it again. Pity, since the basic design is good and sturdy...

(Had a nice sprinkling of snow here this morning - now turned to heavy rain... hope it doesn't turn to ice overnight....it's winter up north here!! I'm really appreciating the seat warmer in the car I hired - what do you reckon to a seat warmer by the chart table???!! Tempting.... power needs are very low....!)

[windage]

my apologies for veering of course/ topic here, but I too was hoping to find a wind vane category here. My first post, new member, voyaging wanna be, working on my Alden schooner, "Saltwind" she was given up for dead in FL and I foolishly rushed in to save her. You can find her on American Schooner Assoc. website...amschooner.org then go to the schooners page, down to Saltwind..wish me luck on her rebuild.
I see a vane on Larry and Lin Pardey's aftstay and wondered how they built it. Since Saltwind has boomkin also I liked the concept of vane on that stay.
I will have to rig an aux tiller, (good idea anyway) and declutch the wheel.
thanks

[Dazzler]

To Windage (Schooner Saltwind),

You asked about the Pardey's selfsteering system: I owned the Pardey's Serraffyn for 8 years and so am familiar with that windvane selfsteering design. The vane is conected to a short tiller arm (about 6" long) on top of a trim tab on the transom hung rudder, not to the main tiller. In fact on Seraffyn the tiller was easily removable so that it could be gotton out of the way on passages. The design really only works with an outboard rudder athough I know Gary Mull once design a boat (Sunshine) with linkage to a rudder trimtab that ran inside the rudder post!

I belive you can find the details for the Pardey's selfsteering in one of their books, probably the book about building Taleisin

Good Luck with your project.

Tom

[MCarnall]

I've sailed a Westsail 32 (double ended, full keel, tiller on external rudder) with a monitor (mounted on boomkin) for about 5 years and it works great. There are, of course, a few limitations, some of which are no doubt the operator's. I find that it works great on the wind even when the boat is a bit overpowered. Downwind it does not cope well unless the boat is well balanced, i.e. underpowered if you are trying to go fast. Engaging is simple with a tiller but the rigs I've seen with a wheel are a bit more awkward but still simple and straightforward.

I've known a couple of people who had Cap Horn's on their boats (heavy cruiser types) and neither was happy with them. One scrapped his and installed a Monitor, with which he was still very happy after a trip to Hawaii and back.

Mike C.

[Chips'nSalsa]

Looks like these posts are somewhat dated - hoping someone could offer advice specifically on Monitor vs. Hydrovane.

Have a Crealock 37 (canoe stern) - had Monitor that performed beautifully (torn off in marina accident). With new child, now have small fingers and toes that want to climb on and touch everything. Would be nice to avoid lines in the cabin - what am I giving up with that approach?

Wondering what the trade-offs are between the two options - both have compelling characteristics. Considering:
- heavy vs. light air
- down-wind performance
- durability over time
- ease of set-up/mgmt while single-handing

thoughts?

thanks,
Mark

[tiger beetle]

I've not used a Hydrovane, as I have used (extensively) the Monitor vane.

My focus is the fixed position of the Hydrovane in the water, always trailing behind the boat. I view that as additional, not always desireable, drag - which is why I prefer a vane that will allow the in-water blade to be lowered into or raised from the water while underway.

- rob/beetle

[ajgoldman]

I used the Hydrovane during the last SHTP. Here is the story, anything but DDW (I mean 170 and you're good), the Hydrovane is, in my opinion, the best steering system on the boat! It was .5 kts faster than the autopilot and much faster than me hand steering after about 10 minutes (too much to look at, who wants to concentrate way out there!).

The one main issue with the Hydrovane, which Rob brings up, is the drag from the rudder in the water when not in use. This is a major concern for the SHTP. Why? Because after about 1,100 miles, the race is DDW for the next 1,100 miles. I mean it, DDW!!! All wind and all waves go directly to Hanalei Bay. Therefore the rudder just sat in the water and dragged along for all the time, yuck.

So, if I were to do it again, I would use the Hydrovane (also my emergency steering), but I would design a way to easily remove and replace the rudder when needed. Now, you are probably asking why didn't I just pull the pin and remove the rudder once I was on DDW, it's not that hard. You are correct, but here is the deal, since the Hydrovane is also my emergency steering, how would I have put it back while moving? This is impossible! Ask anyone. With this being said, I bet we can design a way to make the removal and replacement of the rudder, while under way, easy and manageable. Once this is done, the Hydrovane will be perfect.

AJ

[Chips'nSalsa]

Interesting comment about DDW performance... Hydrovane claims to have better DDW performance than Monitor. That didn't make intuitive sense and what you seem to be saying is that doesn't play out in practice...??

Any thoughts on heavy weather sailing? Using essentially a trim tab with Hydrovane vs. the full rudder with Monitor... Obviously hard to balance the sail plan in rapidly shifting conditions - does the Hydrovane manage rapid wind shifts and chaotic storm seas well?

[nereida]

Greetings to you all from Cape Town (again - 14 months on...!)
I've found the Hydrovane to be excellent DDW - and I mean DEAD DOWNWIND...! I was 'parked' in sight of Table Mt well offshore for two days on my previous visit here.... slight breeze got up.... I made 2 kt of boatspd in 4 kt wind DDW goose-winged - excellent course-keeping - I was very impressed... did better than I could!! Once wind dropped further, I had to hand steer - but with difficulty ....just about managed to keep us on course with a lot of effort, crawling at around 1 kn...So I definitely give Hydrovane a big 'thumbs up' for DDW.
In strong conditions..... I don't think any windsteering will cope well downwind if there are big quartering seas (3-5m/10-16ft or more) knocking the boat off course regularly .
Upwind, most boats will surely steer themselves, if properly balanced, especially when very close-hauled ('Nereida' certainly does - and often even when not well-balanced, if close-hauled), so all windsteering systems should cope OK on that point of sail.
When windsteering is not in use (really gusty conditions), I either try to set the vane as though it's in use for the 'average' wind - so drag is minimal since it 'thinks' it's still working - or the rudder is centred and then I don't feel drag is really relevant......
If conditions are really strong, drag is definitely not a factor to my mind - you're reefed down & going quite fast enough, whether windsteering in use or not, for it not to be of concern...!
Hope you all have a great summer of good sailing winds..

[BobJ]

Hi Jeanne!

I've been following your progress - congratulations on another trip around the marble! That was a tough one. I've seen photos of boats off Cape Horn with the sailor nearly in shirtsleeves (one of Stan Honey comes to mind) but you had the real deal.

Heading back home for the Summer?