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Astolfo
07-14-2010, 07:18 PM
I have the latest version of the B&G pilot, and I have a couple of issues. Their support claims that they never heard of them before. I know of three other skippers that experience/d the same issues. I am trying to gather as much information and hopefully get a collective fix.
These are my problems

Sailing to polar: the pilot does not sail to the target TWA and does not tack when instructed.
Tacking: the boat comes to a dead stop when dead head wind and fails to come across.
Poor performance down wind and some seas, it appears that the automatic response settings get the pilot unstable and starts driving like if it was in a slalom course.
The heading shows as off in some displays (this is a random issue)

I had BobC back when he worked for B&G on the boat and check my setup and there are no issues, I have commissioned the pilot a gazillion times, and always comes up to a pretty consistent set of rads, boat lag, etc., etc.
I would appreciate any help.

I have the H3000 motion with the Halcyon (KVH) compass, 2 ACP1 cpus. All the B&G instruments get their power from a Newmar 12-12-12I DC-DC Isolated Converter. NOTHING else connected to this power supply
thanks!

ronnie simpson
09-01-2010, 01:28 PM
What is your gain set at? Please provide some more info in regards to the actual settings of the pilot. The NKE pilot that I used in the SHTP this year worked horribly in challenging conditions unless I turned the gain way up.

Also, what are the symptoms of not following TWA? does it usually fall off, head up, or just fail to make corrections and gradually go off course? will the pilot steer to a compass heading?

BG 3000 should be a pretty good system if working and set up properly...

Bob C works at NKE now, for Euro Marine Trading in Newport. Don't know how to obtain BG help.

Astolfo
09-01-2010, 02:52 PM
Ronnie, first THANKS! After all the people that looked at this post you are the first one trying to help.

The issues I am referring to are bugs in the B&G software:

Polar mode Bug: for example let’s say we are sailing with a 348 TWD, and you engage the pilot to sail to polar, the pilot display displays 348 as the target TWA (while non-pilot display displays the correct target wind angle) then you ask the pilot to tack and it does not tack in polar mode, as a matter of fact you have to shut the entire system for it to tack in either TWA or AWA mode again.
Like most pilots, B&G use heading (or course if available) and TWD or TWA or AWA (or various combinations depending on the conditions) when sailing to wind mode; using heading as the main reference, and using TWD/TWA/AWA as the variable to adjust the pilot’s course or heading. In the B&G you have variables that allow to adjust how often the wind variable gets to influence the pilots course-heading.

Tacking bug: the pilot keeps track of the wind angle and heading while tacking and gybing, so it “knows” how much rudder to use, the problem with B&G’s logic is that as the amount of rudder applied is proportional to the difference of AWA, so as the wind angle approaches 0, the amount of rudder decreases (there are few more variables that affect the behavior) so if the boat does not have enough inertia to overcome the lack of rudder past 20-25 degrees AWA on the opposite tack the boat stops right dead upwind. So if you want the boat to tack you have to backfill your jib until the jib forces the boat past the 20-25 degrees AWA. This is a very ineffective way to tack, since the boat gets slowed down, and makes the single handed skipper work extra hard since now it has to tack a backfilled jib instead of a not loaded jib.

Bad steering: while sailing in either TWA or AWA (although it is advertised by B&G that you can sail in Polar/ Target Wind Angle the pilot does not) some of the same logic issues in the tacking algorithm affect the performance. And against all logic increasing the “gain” makes things worse because at the beginning the pilot makes small corrections that keep the boat on “track” but if you get a cross wave the pilot tries to correct with bigger and bigger rudder movement which leads to a broach, while the same issue occurs while sailing upwind or reaching the symptoms are less noticeable. If you compare the pilots behavior sailing upwind, downwind and reaching by using, rudder angle, wind angle, yaw-pitch-roll rates they are pretty similar.

IMHO, there is something really wrong with B&G’s logic. You might ask, l if it is that bad how come the big guns love the B&G pilot? My answer will be, they do not run the same software (I have the GA and the BTG software), there are a 5 different matrixes that can be changed plus over 100 variables that can be fine-tuned and they receive a lot more support than a regular joe like myself.

What I am looking for is for other B&G owners so I can start a peer brain dump and see if we can all come with a workaround to these issues and bugs, and “pressure” B&G to get these fixed.
I could post my pilot’s settings if anyone thinks that they can help.
i have a B&G 3000 motion, with the KVH (rebranded for B&G) compass, 2 ACPS (only one connected). the software in the motion CPU is 2, the pilot is 2.02, the GFDs and GPDs are in version 1.8. in other words the latest and greatest from B&G.

Astolfo

Astolfo
09-01-2010, 02:57 PM
is there a way to post videos and pictures in this site?

ronnie simpson
09-05-2010, 12:47 PM
Astolfo,

Don't really know how to help you, after reading the symptoms. Sorry.

Maybe a long shot, but how are your batteries? Have they been load tested? My old AGM batteries held a charge okay, but failed the load test. BG, NKE and most of the others crap out if the voltage under load is less than about 10 volts.

Just a thought.

ronnie

Astolfo
09-05-2010, 06:25 PM
thanks. the problems are not power or connection related. batteries are ok, the B&G instruments have a dedicated newmar 12-12-12i, every connection is done using Posi-Tap and Posi-tite connectors with an epoxy seal...these are just bug in the B&G software, and was hoping to get others in this site so we could put a group fix request.
thanks mate.