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Velocious
02-09-2012, 06:16 PM
Just a quick clarification question. Is this race being run under PCR or Norcal PHRF downwind ratings? The rules are ambiguous as 16.01 says OR an alternative downwind rating. Thanks, George McKay "Cookie Jar"

BobJ
02-09-2012, 08:55 PM
Heh, heh. (Oh, sorry Rob.)


s/Former SHTP Race Chair

robtryon
02-09-2012, 11:54 PM
Hi George,

I'm going to score the race with PCR for a couple of reasons. Foremost is that the race has been scored this way for a long time, and this way the results are consistent with past races. Also, my personal belief is that the new downwind ratings are faulty. Bob Johnson did a lot of research before the 2010 race and rescored some past races using the DW ratings - the results were very interesting.

Anyway, that's the way '12 is going to be scored: PCR ratings. Thanks for asking!

Rob

WBChristie
02-10-2012, 08:33 AM
Hi George,

I'm going to score the race with PCR for a couple of reasons. Foremost is that the race has been scored this way for a long time, and this way the results are consistent with past races. Also, my personal belief is that the new downwind ratings are faulty. Bob Johnson did a lot of research before the 2010 race and rescored some past races using the DW ratings - the results were very interesting.

Anyway, that's the way '12 is going to be scored: PCR ratings. Thanks for asking!

Rob

Any chance we can get a look at the re scored results using the downwind ratings?
Cheers

BobJ
02-10-2012, 09:56 AM
They're on a computer in a galaxy far, far away . . . maybe the same computer the formulae for the DW Ratings are on?

I'll track them down and give them to Rob, then he can decide if he wants to open that can of worms.

Philpott
02-10-2012, 12:02 PM
I have the old old SSS computer. It's an IBM think pad and weighs about 20 lbs. I'll bet it has all kinds of fascinating old race results. A resourceful person could probably use it for parts to replace a broken boom or rudder. Golly, I'd love to get it out of my tiny workroom. Who wants it? I'll deliver it to you!

Critter
02-10-2012, 12:59 PM
I'm kind of fond of that computer.

Velocious
02-10-2012, 01:25 PM
I'm perfectly fine with that, PCR it is. George

BobJ
02-10-2012, 02:28 PM
Just for posterity or something, "PCR" stands for Pacific Cup Rating. The Pacific Cup YC still calls them that, but uses the NorCal PHRF "Downwind ratings" (for PHRF boats) and ORR ratings (for the sleds) to calculate the PCR's for the race. So what SSS should probably say is we're using the "Old PCR Adjustments" for the Singlehanded TransPac.

The good news is there's no ambiguity in the SHTP Rules because the math for the adjustments is spelled out. This is, by the way, my biggest beef with the DW Ratings - they use things like a "com shift" (whatever that is) to figure out what your DW rating will be. When you invest thousands of dollars and months (if not years) of effort to race in the SHTP, you want to know how the ratings were derived - they determine your race result. While one might say regular PHRF ratings are just as subjective, the regular PHRF ratings for most of our boats were determined long ago and have been tested (and often appealed) via observed performance over many races and in multiple PHRF regions. These are then adjusted with published formulae to determine what we might now call the "SHTP Rating." It's a good system.

All in my personal opinion.

Jan Brewer
02-10-2012, 08:37 PM
Jackie, I'll be happy to put that computer in our storage unit to get it outta your way. That way Max can visit it whenever he wants!

brianb
05-18-2012, 07:37 PM
Interesting . The norcal phrf rc put a lot of work into downwind ratings. They are in line with what goes on in other venues around the country.


Any chance we can get a look at the re scored results using the downwind ratings?
Cheers

pogen
05-19-2012, 01:35 PM
OMG, my boat does not have a "com shift". Is that why my rating is so bad? ;)

You guys might be interested to know that the Spinnaker Cup is using the standard PHRF ratings this year, not the downwind ones.

And you are right, the Pac Cup uses a formula derived from the new Downwind ratings, not the old PC 'adjustments'. Though I have been told that the DW ratings had the 'adjustments' as their starting points.

Just be glad that you are now racing a certain Baltic 37 with its DW rating, which I heard was 135. Sheesh! :)

peter00
05-23-2012, 11:15 AM
I'm fairly new to racing and I really don't get the ratings at all. Here in the NW my PHRF rating is 114, in NorCal (I got rated for the last PacCup) it was 78. The forms were filled out by my sailmaker and checked by me. After being pretty disappointed by my performance in the Pac Cup I appealed the Nor Cal rating and it was changed to 90. I'm regularly thrashed in local races here in the NW as my boat (built to the first IOR rule 1971) is totally set up for cruising. I'm not whining as I still have a good time (with some attitude adjustment) but a rating that varies in different areas by over 25 percent is...silly. Let me repeat, I'm not whining (but probably will soon).
The boat is Scaramouche by the way, entered in the SHTP this year

BobJ
05-23-2012, 11:55 AM
Peter, PacCup uses a different rating system than we do - that may be the reason for the difference.

brianb
05-26-2012, 11:49 AM
I'm fairly new to racing and I really don't get the ratings at all. Here in the NW my PHRF rating is 114, in NorCal (I got rated for the last PacCup) it was 78. The forms were filled out by my sailmaker and checked by me. After being pretty disappointed by my performance in the Pac Cup I appealed the Nor Cal rating and it was changed to 90. I'm regularly thrashed in local races here in the NW as my boat (built to the first IOR rule 1971) is totally set up for cruising. I'm not whining as I still have a good time (with some attitude adjustment) but a rating that varies in different areas by over 25 percent is...silly. Let me repeat, I'm not whining (but probably will soon).
The boat is Scaramouche by the way, entered in the SHTP this year

Probably of more concern isn't the variation, but the variation against boats you usually race against. For example, boats I rate against rate slower in all conditions in Nor Cal while in every other venue in the US they rate the same or faster. The adoption of the down wind rating at least resolved that for downwind races, however the Nor Cal scene can't seem to agree with the considerable work done by the Nor Cal PHRF committee to adopt this rating system.

Good luck in the race.

BRian