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Paul Elliott
02-17-2012, 04:51 PM
Hi, this is Paul (VALIS). I'm going to be presenting at the March 14 Communications Seminar, and as I prepare for this I would really appreciate any questions or comments you might have.

Here's an outline of the areas I think would be useful:
• SSB

o Installation -- typical costs, options
o Antenna and ground systems
o Power – connections and power budget
o Operation – Sailmail and other email choices, cost, practical limitations, spam email
o How to communicate – microphone technique, headset use, practice, relaying, other radio traffic
o Onboard radio noise – sources, mitigation
o Common problems – antenna, low battery, noise, propagation, interference from other vessels, crazy autopilot
o Return passage coordination and emergency communications with Pac Cup boats.

• Satphone

o Installation -- typical costs, options
o Antenna options
o Power – connections and power budget
o Operation – XGate, Sailmail, and other email choices, cost, practical limitations, pre-paid minutes
o How to communicate – just like a phone.
o Always-on?
o Onboard radio noise – sources, mitigation
o Common problems – dropped calls, running out of minutes, spam email, spam filters

• Related topics

o Getting weather info – satphone email, SSB email, SSB WFAX, SSB voice broadcasts
o Computer – laptop, netbook, ?, power budget


Any thoughts? I don't want this to be a rehash of what everybody already knows, but I'm thinking there might be a broad range of experience in the room. I do hope that some of you will be willing to help answer the hard questions and provide real-world advice (my own experience is on my crewed heavy cruising vessel).

Hope to see you there!

BobJ
02-20-2012, 10:23 AM
Hi Paul,

Thanks for doing this key seminar. I'm guessing more Bug-lighters will check in after they recover from the EYC festivities.

A couple things come to mind:

1) I did my own SSB installation (Icom 802). I thought I assembled the counterpoise carefully and well (copper strapping down the hull to a keelbolt) but it didn't work until I also ran a piece of strapping to the engine. Last year I ripped it all out and bought a KISS-SSB coil. It seemed to work fine during the LongPac, although the boats were a lot closer together. Also, know whether your keel ballast is encapsulated or not.

2) I had a lot of trouble getting the satphone properly connected to the laptop, including the Mail program being the default to send/receive GRIBs from SailDocs. Just lots of pieces to the puzzle, both hardware and software. (This was 2008 - I rented a 9505A from Luis at Global Marine Networks and connected it to a MacBook running MacENC. The requests were sent through Mac's Mail program via XGate.) Most skippers rent the satphone - don't have it delivered the day before the race - allow more time to get everything working.

3) If you have an Icom radio, take a spare mic. I think three Icom mic's crapped out during the 2006 race.

4) I can't speak for Rob of course, but if you can't demonstrate decent SSB signal strength off the antenna or a working satphone in Tiburon, you probably won't be allowed to start. The Coast Guard made it VERY clear in the race permit that all boats had to be able to maintain communications.

All I can think of right now.

Culebra
02-20-2012, 09:23 PM
Hi Paul, I look forward to the presentation. Your agenda looks really great. When I was preparing for the Transpac in 2010 I spent a ton of time making sure I had a rock solid installation (and amazingly, it really worked), but not enough time getting familiar using the radio. Not intuitive. By about the 4th day out -- on my return leg -- I guess I figured out enough to get by. So, for the SSB newbies among us, I'm thinking some of these topics could be useful:

Tuning and autotuning
Selecting the right mode
Finding the right channel quickly (with 2 confounded knobs, and too many channels in between)
Saving desired channels
Which band to use for short/long distances
What time of day is best
Getting the high seas weather broadcast
Finding radio news and other interesting stuff
Listening to members' nets
Etiquette for taking your turn, breaking in, etc.
Use of special terms and how to respond to them

Like "over" vs. "out" "clear" "how's my signal" "standing by" "decimal" vs. "point" "niner" etc.,
Oh, and "that's a roger" "roger, roger, roger" and "roger that" :)"

Thanks... and see you there.
Paul/Culebra

Paul Elliott
02-21-2012, 01:10 AM
Bob and Paul, thanks for the great feedback -- these are excellent topics and they typically aren't discussed in the usual SSB how-to presentation.

I still get confused by the two channel-selector dials on my Icom 710! Finding the channel I'm looking for can be a real challenge.

A head's up: I'm going to be running the SSB Test Net again this year, on Opening Day (Sunday, April 29), after the Blessing of the Fleet. Gordon West will be participating from San Diego, and I hope to get some boats up in the PNW to join in. Frequencies and schedule TBD.

BobJ
02-21-2012, 10:00 AM
In the satphone section, it would be good to emphasize the prohibitions against Outside Assistance. The RR&C's are very specific.

pogen
02-21-2012, 11:44 AM
I'm pricing out satphones now -- trying to get the best deal and determine rent vs. buy. For example, a three month Iridium handset rental seems comparable to the cost of the Isatphone Pro purchase price. And the dock, external antenna, and cabling will run about $1200, and these items cannot be rented, as far as I can tell. So $650 on top for an ISatPhone Pro does not seem bad. Is this the way it is? I was pretty surprised how expensive the dock/antenna turned out to be, maybe I am missing something.

The PacCup has a satphone-only option, I don't remember if the SHTP has gone this route. Perhaps after this year's races the SSS will examine the experience of the PacCuppers and also decide to allow this.


Also, Paul, if you could make your presentation slides available shortly after the meeting that would be great.

And of course, don't be shy about plugging NavMonPC, the best marine software value out there!

BobJ
02-21-2012, 12:32 PM
I rented the satphone with all accessories. I had to buy a minimum three month subscription to X-Gate but that was the only extra. By far the most expensive part was the minutes but by contracting ahead with GMN I got a good rate, plus an 800 number to call first which routed the calls through a cheaper source. GMN charged my card twice a month for the minutes I used.

I thought about buying (vs. renting) the Iridium 9505A but I'm glad I didn't. Two smaller, lighter, cooler Iridium models have come out since then, and I wouldn't have used a satphone much after the SHTP anyway. All this was four years ago so things may have changed.

The SHTP doesn't require SSB's - you can go w/satphone only - but you'll miss out on a lot of the camaraderie if you can't participate via SSB during the race. This has been debated here EXTENSIVELY.

pogen
02-21-2012, 12:38 PM
Yeah, I know, I did not want to start a new discussion/debate. Thanks for the tip on renting bases, that option is not on their website I think, and I haven't yet called Luis. Paul mentioned to me that OCENS (http://www.ocens.com/Default.aspx) might be giving West Coast racers a deal this summer, but I don't know what is going on there. OCENS pricing is pretty comparable to GMN, and others as well. I would want to go with a vendor who had experience working with our type of situation.


FWIW, I have archived several past presentations (SSS and PacCup) on SSB installation and usage on my website here

http://downtothesea.org/david/SSB/

All are .pdf format.

Cheers

D.

Ragnar
02-24-2012, 11:44 AM
Hi Paul,

I'm really sorry I will miss your seminar, but I will be bashing my way back up from Guadalupe Island on the 14th. There were a few Seminars I was going to push & get up there to attend, both to learn and to meet some folks. When I saw you were doing it, I was doubly disappointed I won't be there.

Cheers,

Whitall
Slacker

Paul Elliott
02-24-2012, 05:05 PM
Hi Paul,

I'm really sorry I will miss your seminar, but I will be bashing my way back up from Guadalupe Island on the 14th. There were a few Seminars I was going to push & get up there to attend, both to learn and to meet some folks. When I saw you were doing it, I was doubly disappointed I won't be there.

Cheers,

Whitall
Slacker

I'm looking forward to meeting a whole bunch of you folks, sorry you can't make it. Sail safe and have fun!

My plan is to have the PowerPoint slideset plus some fairly extensive notes and details available on various websites before the seminar.

I completely agree, do not wait until the last minute to get your comms system reliably working. Example:

I've got a fancy new Asus "Zen" netbook (it's flat, shiny, and runs Win7-64.) The plan was to use this as the main machine for satphone comms. My new Iridium phone has a USB connection, and it works great with XGate running on my old XP-based netbook. I can *not* get the new netbook to work reliably with XGate. The drivers work, I can even send and receive short satphone email. But when I attach a few KByte attachment, the handshaking fails and the message is almost never delivered. I've done A/B testing with the new and old netbooks, and it's definitely the computer. GMN has looked at the logs, and can't figure this out (they claim to have many happy customers using Win7-64.) I worked on this for a couple of weeks, and have now kind of given up. I may need to leave the new computer at home.

I just got the Iridium AxcessPoint WiFi hot spot box, and will be testing with that (although I really don't like way it keeps the satphone connection running until you push the "Off" button.)

The moral: Test early and often. Try the corner-cases -- don't just send a "Hello World" message and think you're good to go. My initial tests looked good, and I didn't discover the problem until much later.

Regarding the upcoming SSB test (April 29), I'm getting some good response from folks willing to be available up and down the coast (including the Vic-Maui gang.)

FYI, Vic-Maui will be holding an SSB test session during the Swiftsure (May 26-27), and they would appreciate some out-of-the-area boats to communicate with. I will keep you all informed as the details come together.

JimQuanci
03-01-2012, 09:26 PM
I have rented a SatPhone for the last three PacCups. Two months rental with 120 minutes prepaid (that I have never used more then 60 minutes of). Cost about $600 first time and just $520 for the last race (total). www.SatellitePhoneStore.com
Each race the rental cost drops a wee bit and Iridium phone keeps getting better (smaller, quicker and less frequent charging). I have no real use for a SatPhone other then the race and return trip. Really just there for an emergency so I won't be guessing if the 406 is doing its thing - being able to personally tell the Coast Guard should the boat sink from under me "send someone my way for a pick-up, I am in a liferaft!". Did come in handy when we hit a whale that tweaked the rudder - which led to a few calls to the Keehi Marina on Oahu to understand the "just in case" options if I needed to pull the rudder before the delivery home. Let me sleep better the next several days knowing what was possible. Luckily the rudder turned out to be an easy fix. The SatPhone was a hit with the delivery crew too - when we had lots of prepaid minutes left to burn - calling home after a bit of swimming in the middle of the high.

Velocious
03-08-2012, 04:22 PM
I just purchased an inReach 2 way satellite communticator. There are 2 models, one that will pair with an Android phone and one that will pair with a handheld GPS navigator (PN-60) from DeLorme (the same company that makes the inREach). The inReach has to have a 1 year contract for activation and there are 3 levels: emergency (you can hit the SOS button), intermediate usage (this is the one I chose, it costs 250 for the year and comes with 40 text messages of 160 characters or less and unlimited refreshes to your position).The high usage plan was around $450 and doubled the texts.

The system uses the Irridium sats so it is worldwide coverage. I am going to let my friends track my progress and hopefully use this as a backup for checkins if the sat phone craps out. Checkout their website!

jlubimir
03-13-2012, 07:36 PM
Paul

I'm am sorry I will not be able to make it- agenda sounds very comprehensive. Would it be possible to get your presentation in a PDF file?

John Lubimir
Quest 30

Paul Elliott
03-13-2012, 08:33 PM
Hi John,

Here's a link to a pdf with my slides and notes: http://www.sailvalis.com/presentations/SHTP%20Communications%202012.pdf

I'm pretty sure that we're not going to want to spend much time covering the "how to install an SSB" stuff, but I included it in case someone might find it useful. I'm also pretty sure that there will be some good discussions at the seminar that will cover issues that I've not even thought of. I hope we can take notes and capture the good stuff!

Best,
Paul

BobJ
03-18-2012, 10:29 PM
A few tips/reminders I gleaned from Paul's excellent talk:

Test your SSB on multiple frequencies. I'm guilty of quick, limited tests on one or two freq's

(From Mike) - Get an SWR meter to test your signal. I didn't realize they were only $50-$60.

Charge batteries before it's time for the SSB check-in - you'll have a better signal.

SSB draws power even when off (I didn't know this) - wire it through a breaker so it can be OFF

Use your VHF to check for RFI from other electronics - turn the squelch all the way up then listen for changes in the "hiss" when you turn the AIS on (for example)

There are benefits to leaving the satphone ON (it doesn't draw much)

A few things I'll add:

Yes, if you haven't played with an SSB the talk was a bit overwhelming. Not to worry - it's because we're all into this stuff. Before I was, I innocently bought an SSB for the 2006 SHTP, installed it, screwed around with it a bit and got it working. And I'm an accountant . . .

Being able to talk with the other skippers out there (as a group) is WORTH IT. Besides, there are always the sailing boards or E-Bay after the race is over. You can sell a Monitor Windvane or an SSB in about four nanoseconds on the Cruisers Forum.

Your SSB can play cruel games with your autopilot when you transmit. I ran my autopilot wires up the starboard side of the boat and my SSB wires up the port side. It's a small boat and I wanted as much separation as possible. Also, I installed one of these T-4-500's at the tuner end of the cable to the SSB: http://www.radioworks.com/ct-4.html I had no problems with RFI messing up the autopilot.

Have a cover made for your cockpit engine panel. If it gets too wet you may not be able to start your engine to charge batteries. I had mine made at TAP Plastics. Hand steering for, like, a week really suks.

Related to this, when running your engine to charge your batteries, it needs to be running above idle speed (I run mine at 1,800-2,000 RPM).

Anyone else?

Thanks again Paul!

sleddog
03-19-2012, 06:44 AM
BobJ brings up two important things: Running AP wires aft on opposite side of cockpit for max separation. And a waterproof cover for the cockpit engine panel, something few boat builders seem to consider.

In the "what if" department, in the event of dismasting with the SSb antenna overboard or non-functional, I have had success clamping the antenna backstay feed to the wire lifelines and tuning that up. It wasn't the most powerful sig, but did get out.

Wylieguy
03-19-2012, 06:12 PM
About emergency antennas. Most modern auto tuners will work with a length of random wire. Matter of fact in the 2010 PacCup that's what we used for the primary antenna. A 30' length of #16 insulated stranded wire I bought at a junk yard for $2. I ran it from the tuner (in the bow of a Wyliecat) to the mast head using a length of WM's cheap nylon line (the hanked stuff) as a halyard. We carried several more lengths of similar wire as back up in case we either lost the mast or the first piece.

Our idea was to raise it and lower the antenna as needed, but decided to just leave it up all the way. Worked just fine and a friend heard us for 5 days in SF using a cheap Sony receiver. That was the short distance frequency. I think Paul can attest that our signal was strong out on the ocean.

The lifelines should work in an emergency, but a random 25 - 30' length of insulated stranded wire strung around or perhaps held up by whatever (boom? whisker pole? mast stub? NOT YOU!) should work, too, perhaps even better; you might get more vertical radiation.

You want to stay away from the wire when transmitting, but you want to really stay away from the lifelines and stanchions and gates and anything else connected to whatever you're using in as an emergency antenna. Rf burns rather than shocks and is dangerous. If you decide to use lifelines as the emergency antenna, remember that you often have electrical devices mounted on the pushpit or other active parts that the lifelines are connected to. You might cook something or allow RF to enter the cabin area via a wire, creating another dangerous situation.

Ground Plane. At the same junk yard I purchased 20' of 12" wide copper sheeting - they sell it by the pound at current copper prices. Ran it from the keel bolts (used 3 bronze clamps from Handy Man) to the tuner, laying the copper along the bottom of the hull and folding it down into a "V" at the tuner. In addition to the keelbolts, that made for about another 15+ square feet of counter poise, most of it below the waterline. The whole thing cost about $50. Again, worked just fine.

Pat Broderick - "NANCY"

The Pink Boat
05-11-2012, 12:14 AM
Paul, what was the isolator you put on the antenna to keep a signal from bouncing along the outside the wire back to the tuner? It was about a foot long and you said it was part of your standard install. Where can I get it?

Paul Elliott
05-13-2012, 11:31 PM
Paul, what was the isolator you put on the antenna to keep a signal from bouncing along the outside the wire back to the tuner? It was about a foot long and you said it was part of your standard install. Where can I get it?

I recall that we discussed this, but I don't actually use one on VALIS. Here is a link to one that is recommended by the SailMail people: http://www.radioworks.com/ct-4.html (their 500-Watt unit should be fine in a marine SSB application, and it is the least expensive of the bunch). [I see that BobJ has provided this same link.]

In my opinion you probably don't need it, but it certainly won't hurt. In some ground-loop cases it might help a lot in reducing EMI issues such as interference to your autopilot, etc.

cafemontaigne
05-16-2012, 07:32 PM
I recall that we discussed this, but I don't actually use one on VALIS. Here is a link to one that is recommended by the SailMail people: http://www.radioworks.com/ct-4.html (their 500-Watt unit should be fine in a marine SSB application, and it is the least expensive of the bunch). [I see that BobJ has provided this same link.]

In my opinion you probably don't need it, but it certainly won't hurt. In some ground-loop cases it might help a lot in reducing EMI issues such as interference to your autopilot, etc.

I had a fair bit of problems with the autopilot interfering with the SSB. Most people seem to have the opposite problem, but I kept getting interference every time the AP motor actuated. It was workable with voice transmissions, but since I'm now doing email through the SSB, I added one of these T-4-500s to try to reduce the interference, along with a handful of ferrites. I'll let you know in a couple weeks if it did the trick.

Paul Elliott
05-16-2012, 08:18 PM
I had a fair bit of problems with the autopilot interfering with the SSB. Most people seem to have the opposite problem, but I kept getting interference every time the AP motor actuated. It was workable with voice transmissions, but since I'm now doing email through the SSB, I added one of these T-4-500s to try to reduce the interference, along with a handful of ferrites. I'll let you know in a couple weeks if it did the trick.

Definitely try the ferrites on the autopilot wires, as close to the control box and to the motor as you can get them. Is this a tillerpilot or do you have separate brain and drive units? Do your antenna tuner cables (RF, control, RF Ground) run near the autopilot cables?

cafemontaigne
05-17-2012, 04:29 PM
Definitely try the ferrites on the autopilot wires, as close to the control box and to the motor as you can get them. Is this a tillerpilot or do you have separate brain and drive units? Do your antenna tuner cables (RF, control, RF Ground) run near the autopilot cables?

Unfortunately, the AP computer is about 2 feet below the radio, in the middle of the boat, and the drive unit is in the stern, right next to the tuner. So I had to run the cables parallel. I separated them by about 4 feet, with the AP motor cable running in the aluminum pipe that holds up the quarterberth. I'm thinking of bonding the pipe to a keelbolt to help it shield the wire inside.

brianb
05-17-2012, 05:21 PM
Unfortunately, the AP computer is about 2 feet below the radio, in the middle of the boat, and the drive unit is in the stern, right next to the tuner. So I had to run the cables parallel. I separated them by about 4 feet, with the AP motor cable running in the aluminum pipe that holds up the quarterberth. I'm thinking of bonding the pipe to a keelbolt to help it shield the wire inside.

You should draw a diagram of the ground path for your radio and tuner. Show the battery, keel connection, hull foils, and engine connection (if any). You want to make sure that RF grounds return through the tuner ground post to the radio and that those RF grounds are not shared with anything else, especially the AP. You also want to make sure that the radio power and ground do not share a path to the battery with any instruments or AP as well. Ferrites are great but if your sharing ground or power paths noise will be induced in the power wires and once a differential signal is induced the ferrites will not choke it out (if connected in the normal common mode fashion).

Ok, so maybe that sounds like jibberish ? The system should look like the following: Red and black power for the radio should go to the battery directly and it won't hurt to put a ferrite at each end, like the ones clamped on power cords. You can add a breaker of course, or fuse, but I highly recommend not going into the fuse panel to make connections for the radio because you have no control of what else connects to the grounds/power posts in the fuse panel. THis assures no other instruments share the power leads, and if they did they could induce noise in the rcvr. Next,the tuner ground post should be led to your RF ground system, ie Keel, engine block, prop shaft(if applicable), and foil grounds. No other ground should connect their (engine block has the alternator connected their, but leave alone). The coax from the radio to tuner should have nothing touching the conductor, ex: don't let some stray wire touch/connect to the connectors at either end. The radio ground post should not be connected to any instruments or other boat electrical systems. Now make sure GPS/AP/WIND/Sounder wires are kept away from the coax that runs to the radio from the tuner. Put a ferrite at each end of the coax run, just to quench antenna return currents from using the coax as a ground return, alternately you can coil any extra coax up into a coil about the size of a fist with all turns going in the same direction and tape it tightly in a few spots to keep it together, this has the same choke effect as the ferrites.

Lastly, if you have things set up as above and you still have noise, you may have to do some testing. For example, noise induced in your wiring system will be present with or without the antenna attached. Test for noise without the antenna, if it is present you likely have a wiring problem. It the noise is only present with the antenna present, and tuned, then your other electronics are likely inducing noise via the antenna. There is a small chance of noise coupling from a unit, like the AP computer, directly into the radio and distance is a big help.

Hopefully these comments are of some use. If you want any additional help let me know.

Regards,
Brian S/V redsky

brianb
05-17-2012, 05:54 PM
HI,

I have attached the seminar slides from 2010. Slide 14 shows some of what I was trying to describe.

Well, I tried to attach it, but the system won't accept it, probably too big. If you want a copy send your address.

If your boat is in the bay area I could potentially assist.

Brian

pogen
05-18-2012, 11:34 AM
Hi guys,

For past seminars, including Brian's please see my link below, I have them available on the web.

Best of luck,

David


....

FWIW, I have archived several past presentations (SSS and PacCup) on SSB installation and usage on my website here

http://downtothesea.org/david/SSB/

All are .pdf format.