Actually, I suggested that we have the RAID on a weekend that didn't conflict with an already-existing SSS event, but Jim and Ants can do it on the V-1-2 weekend, so here we are.
Printable View
I can't join the RAID next month but I'm interested in future events. I've long admired the Potter Yotters and the locations they visit, but I couldn't bring myself to sail that slowly.
What boats make sense for RAIDs in and around San Francisco Bay? I'd want something I could sit in, not on, with some storage/shelter, and that is responsive for sailing. Probably with a gunter rig to slip under low bridges without dropping the whole mast. As posted above, self-rescuing would seem to be important as well.
.
There really is no such animal commercially made that I know of. Try and find a commercially made dinghy with a gunter rig, for example. This article, and the boat it represents are just about ideal from what I can see, and right along the lines of what you've suggested.
http://www.hostellerssailingclub.org...y-for-cruising
In terms of safety, it's pretty hard to beat the Boston Whaler sailboats, with all their internal flotation, but you'd have to replace the rig with a gunter. It might be worth trying to find a 15-18 foot dinghy with no mast, and re-rig the boat. John Welsford has a few boats which sail well enough and have excellent setups for rowing.
And of course, river of Grass that Tchoup is building.
Might look at the Core Sound series, but their whole "thing" is the twin cat rig.
Likely bigger and more work that you're looking for, but this fine Ted Brewer design is located a couple of trailer spots down from me in Alameda.
1994 26' Nimble Kodiak Pilothouse Motor Sailor For Sale
Owner says he'd take significantly under the current list price (even with the posted price drop).
FWIW. DH
I tried to avoid getting Rags sideways while under low bridges.
We had a Cape Dory 10 when I was a kid. It had a gunter rig and I was able to circumnavigate Government Island without any trouble. That P14 I was drooling over also had a gunter rig. Nice too because all the spars fit easily inside the boat.
Bob, your comment about gunter-rigged dinghies and my assertion that there weren't "production" gunter rigged dinghies is off the mark.
The Tideway Series of dinghies from the UK, are available as gunters. Some of their models are nesting dinghies like the PT 11.
Attachment 4770
The old standby, the Mirror is a gunter. I had a plywood mirror for a while, and I liked it.
Attachment 4771
Some of the Drascombe boats...like I think maybe the Dabbler?? are gunter rigged.
I might have to buy a recent production boat that's self-rescuing and cobble together a rig for it. There's a Vanguard 15 down the street that could work.
Here's a video of a Cape Dory 10: https://vimeo.com/225766000
I spent many hours in that boat. It was heavy and kind of a tub, and it was NOT self-rescuing (ask me how I know this...)
They also made a Cape Dory 14. It had a gunter rig too, was better-proportioned than the 10, and had large sealed tanks in the bow and stern.
.
As a person who has watched Bob pull cart after cart of stuff up and down E Dock, I think you all are just causing him grief when you encourage his predilections.
Instead why not just invite him to join you on your boat up the Napa? He could leave Surprise! in Vallejo for a night or so, go "up river" to check out Jim and Mary's new place, then uber back. A third boat is a wild and crazy idea for an accountant.
Well this is awkward... I already have three boats. The other two are each less than 8' long (though not by much) and unsuitable for RAIDing.
Have any of our readers righted a Vanguard 15? How hard is it?
Oh boy, yeah! After I tested out of the Techs
Attachment 4772
at University of Wisconsin Madison they let me sail a 420, which is very similar to a Vanguard.
Attachment 4773
With supervision, of course. Capsizing was a given and I was a bit younger then.
You do have to move fast. The question for you, Bob, is: Can you move fast enough?
Probably not - I was a bit younger too, when I raced dinghies.
I just watched a video of a Vanguard 15 in heavy air. That's not the right boat for solo meandering. I want to meander.
So another question: Jim mentions "a few RAIDs per year." Would these be multiple day events (sleeping on the beach, etc.)?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LyuqJP...pJ1I3xgJjmYUFQ
My preference would be Russell Brown's PT Spear.
The video shows various forms of simulated capsizes and recoveries of the PT Spear.
I would sure love to see a late Spring and then an early Fall mini-RAID. Gut feeling is that three days is about maximum. More than that, and folks can't get the time off. Starting with an overnight makes a LOT of sense.
I don't think the Vanguard 15 is the RAID-type boat of choice. There's nowhere to put "stuff". When I was thinking hard about taking the skerry to do the Texas 200, which would last about 5 days, I worked out how I'd take all the "stuff"...which included a cheap camping tent, sleeping bag, sleeping pad, food and cooking gear. I figured I could get it all into about 4 dry bags and I also bought three of these.
Attachment 4774
which snap on, and then the inner lid twists on/off. It turns a 3.5 or 5 gallon bucket into a totally watertight, but easily accessible storage unit.
A Lido 14 would work for a camping RAID-type boat. So would an O'Day daysailer. An O-Day javelin...in fact, really any 14-16 foot small boat with flotation tanks / seats, but enough room to store "stuff" would work. I had my eyes on an AMF Sunbird a long time ago for exactly this purpose. The cabin on a Sunbird is really for "stuff" but if desperate, and with a boom cover over the front half of the cockpit you COULD sleep in it.
A totally dedicated race boot, like with rolled-over seating, like a 420, not so much.
A thistle with a cut-down mainsail...maybe 3-4 feet off the mast and 2 feet off the boom, might work.
Ants, I have the same problem with this capsize video as I have with the SAS "jump off the dock/into the pool" exercise. Of testing the emergency rudder on SF Bay. None of them offers what is likely to be real. You probably capsized due to wind and/or waves. Getting the boat turned around, getting in upright, and getting back in will be much more difficult than the example. In a small boat you're likely floating in your lifejacket because 1) you fell overboard due to winds and waves or 2) your boat sank. Unless your lifejacket has leg straps you'll struggle to keep it down and you'll struggle to keep waves from breaking into your face. Don't get me wrong, I think practice is a necessary, and I have practice jumped into pools or next to the dock several times to test floatation & clambering back onboard and I have recovered from many capsizings in small boats on lakes. I don't know about San Pablo Bay on a day with teenish winds and that short ebb chop? Or worse? At nearly 80, I don't think I have the physical capacity for any of the above on even semi-open water like San Pablo Bay, so these are the thoughts of an outsider for the RAID.
Those are excellent points. Also, watching Russell Brown get back into his dinghy is much easier than me getting back into any dinghy.
Some items that were noteworthy to me. When the mast was on the water, the limited amount of boat submerged in the water. There is plenty of flotation to keep an excess amount of water from entering. I capsized a Lightning (with all flotation under the deck) in Monterey Bay. When the Lightning was upright again, there was no way I could sail away due to flotation placement.
Also, I am not sure where Russell found water that was relatively warm in Port Townsend area. Most of the deeper water is colder than SF Bay.
As for choppy conditions in San Pablo Bay in a RAID vessel, I have identified my bail out points if conditions begin to deteriorate. My sabot dinghies stay home for a San Pablo Bay event.
The sail rig is optional, so it someone wanted to use a different sail plan, that could be easily accommodated.
This is a larger version of the P14 I was drooling over. It's a lot heavier (300# ish). On one hand it can handle rougher water, but on the other hand it would be harder to right from a capsize.
With stern drainage - usually transom flaps and suction bailers - and adequate ballast tanks, perhaps it could be made to be self-rescuing, assuming it could be brought upright. Other than the high price, thoughts?
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/scz/boa...994761636.html
That's an Arch Davis Penobscot 17?
take a look, Bob.
https://www.archdavisdesigns.com/davis_penobscot17.html
Note this part...
"For those who would like to do some more extended cruising, the Penobscot 17 provides an extra reserve of buoyancy and stability. Like the Penobscot 14, she has flotation compartments at bow and stern; in addition, the plans show four inch thick slabs of styrofoam flotation under the side seats which run the full length of the boat. The styrofoam is tucked away out of sight, but the plans show how to make it easy to remove for maintenance.
"
It looks like a P-17 to me (and the ad says it is). Yes, I saw the flotation comments. But I'm wondering how much water is left in it after righting it from a capsize - can it be sailed away?
Those wide side seats (which are full length) may keep enough water out while on its side, if it floats high enough.
I had transom flaps in my FJ. If you could get back in it and get moving, the remaining water would drain out the back. My Banshees had suction bailers in the bottom. But they were light and fast, and I don't know how you'd install bailers in a lapstrake, wooden hull.
.
The price seems in the general range for traditional wooden boats. An inspection is usually needed to determine if the builder and maintainer liked excellent work. A item to consider is location. There seems to be a lot more offerings in PNW, but there are costs and logistics to view and retrieve.
I have my doubts if a traditional boat would sail away and drain like a performance dinghy. In case of a capsize, the capability to right the boat, get back in, and bail without taking on more water seems useful.
The U.K. Sailors have extensive small boat cruisers. I wonder if posted information could be found.
http://www.dinghycruising.org.uk/
also the facebook group for those still on FB:
There is a lot on the Wooden Boat Forum about "Sail and Oar" but dear GOD, you must understand that. "Sail and Oar" is a RELIGION there. It does NOT mean "cruising around on a boat which sails, that you can also row". That said, the Sail 'n Oar folks have some wickedly cool boats. A personal favorite is Ben Fullers "Harrier"
Attachment 4775
Here's a good article about the Penobscot 17:
https://smallboatsmonthly.com/article/penobscot-17/
Near the end of the Comments is one by Ed Titus, describing a capsize of his boat. I'm pretty sure this is the same boat that's for sale on CL. I've sent the owner an e-mail - we'll see where this goes.
What a gorgeous boat!
Preparations for the RAID got a little saltier-
Attachment 4783
I am still going.
The schedule for Sat morning looks good. Kayak travels on roof rack.
Any folks with a spare berth in their boat for Saturday? Probably likely to fall asleep without much carousing!
Ants
Ants, you are welcome to sleep aboard Surprise! In fact, you might have the boat to yourself since I live down the road and usually go home Saturday night.
See you 7am at RYC on Saturday morning.
BobJ,
If you don't mind, I will drop off a dry bag with my bedding and Jammie's in Surprise's cockpit on Friday afternoon or Saturday morning. Kayak's don't have an abundance of storage.
Thanks,
Ants
E-75 at RYC (far end of E dock).
Thanks. I spotted Surprise several days ago with the toe rails being spruced up. I was briefly confused since there was a smaller A-boat getting the same beauty treatment with a blue hull also.
Thanks to BobJ - is this an entertainment factor or a tactical speed factor? Stay tuned. Some sort of judgement will be a available tomorrow.
Attachment 4804
I was thinking that your kayak with Connie's stadium umbrella might keep up with Jim's Laser. Some rating adjustment may be required.
First Official SSS RAID 102019
Up the Napa River
Vallejo One was fun this year. Dura Mater raised her symmetric spinnaker and slid sideways fast and close to port of Archimedes all the way between Red Rock and the Brothers. Good thing she has that new rudder, otherwise we would have slammed into Joe. Actually, that’s probably the ONLY reason we didn’t slam into Joe.
Here’s our Race Committee Boat.
Attachment 4817
I certainly haven’t forgotten that Rob MacFarlane always seems to be where we need him most. Thanks, Rob. Thanks, Kristen.
Here’s a newish member, Carol Klammer, on her Cal 34 Palapa. Carol has agreed to create a 2020 Singlehanded Transpacific Yacht Race poster for us. She is a graphic designer with impressive credentials. Really. Look her up.
Attachment 4818
Here’s Paul Sutchek on his Cal 20,
Attachment 4814
the smallest boat making an impression yet again, just after Falk Meissner killed it in the Long Pac earlier this year.
Sunday morning, while you all were floating around sideways in Potrero Reach, Dura Mater, my tiller-hog friend and I set off up the Napa River with friends literally in tow. Motorsailing, it is true, which was the result of unfortunate timing. Whose idea was it to try to go up the Napa River on an ebb, anyway? That's what happens when DM and I are accompanied by people who don't know anything about sailing. Oh well, that’s just the way it is sometimes. We were on a mission.
Have you ever noticed how singlehanders wear dorky hats?
Attachment 4815
They never look like sailors in the Gill advertisements, do they? And they do the dumbest things: Like race a laser from Richmond Yacht Club to the Vallejo Yacht Club. Beat most of the fleet, too, even after taking a dunk at the turn into Mare Island Strait. Such bad judgement. I learned after the fact that this guy told his Lovely loved one that he would be fine because Dura Mater would be his chase boat. Huh! I was miles behind the whole way. Next morning in Vallejo he was ready to keep going. Like the Energizer Bunny.
It was a really nice day to go up the Napa River, and it ended differently than the last time I went up with Chris Case and Bob Johnston on FUGU. That trip ended abruptly, stuck fast in the mud at the Brazos Railroad Bridge. This time DM and crew made it up the whole way to downtown Napa, and tied up behind the gondola.
Attachment 4816
We left Dura Mater at the public dock and walked to the Energizer Bunny’s house. We ate lunch on the deck in back of a lovely cottage. The front yard is full of old roses, the back yard with new little lemon, lime and orange trees. No attack was made upon the town, and plundering was unnecessary. It was a civilized Raid. I’ll write more about the trip itself in a future post. Yes, it is possible to motor sail all the way, by way of FIVE bridges, only one of which needs opening. Next time we’re going up on a flood and back down on an ebb. And I’ll wait for wind.