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Thread: Steering Seminar Videos are Up

  1. #1
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    Default Steering Seminar Videos are Up

    An article by Dan Newland and Orcon Corporation titled: Emergency Steering Methods and Rudder Construction will be copied and available @ the meeting. Do you want to read it ahead of time? Of course you do.
    Last edited by BobJ; 01-10-2014 at 11:58 PM.

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    Collection of previous SSS Transpac Rudders:
    http://sfbaysss.org/TransPac/transpa...r_designs.html
    Last edited by Philpott; 10-10-2013 at 10:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philpott View Post
    Collection of previous SSS Transpac Rudders:
    http://sfbaysss.org/TransPac/transpa...r_designs.html
    My emergency rudder in 2008 was a rudder/cassette design. There were pluses and minuses to the design. for one thing, since the body of the rudder blade was behind the axis of rotation, the rudder loaded up a lot. It was not fun to steer the boat with the setup, though it worked.

    The rudder blade was foam core, such as what you can buy here:

    https://www.flyingfoam.com/

    I bought a precut 12 inch chord 72-inch long symmetrical foam blade. Don't get styrene, get the EPP core. This is important, as epoxy will dissolve styrene. Hmm.. is that right? Maybe the polyester resins dissolve styrene. Hmmm. Well this was a long time ago.

    I then layered up a few layers of knytex in epoxy over the foam blade. I used three layers PLUS two layer of unidirectional carbon fiber for a rudder blade that was probably ten pounds heavier than it needed to be but was the far side of bombproof. I'm a crummy glassworker, I didn't vacuum bag it or anything so it wasn't all THAT fair, but I found it acceptable. I figured this was a "get me there" rudder rather than a "Keep racing" rudder so i sanded it but I sure didn't get it super-smooth. The foil you'll get from the foam wing places is pretty thick, it's WAY thicker than a J-24 rudder for example. This has hydrodymanic advantages and disadvantages.

    I made the cassette out of laminated 1/8 inch doorskins, available from Home Depot. This was screwed and glued to a shaped bit of 2 x 4 at the front. There were straps of uni carbon fiber wrapped around the entire cassette. I had a welder make up custom pintles, which were pretty strong but not pretty.

    All in all I think the device was acceptable, if not pretty. It was hella strong and didn't cost much, though the cassette took me forever to make.

    If I were to do this over again on a boat the size of a Santa Cruz 27 I would probably not go for a blade/cassette system. On something 30-foot -plus I don't think you have an option, it's just too difficult to wrestle the blade and gudgeons/pintles together when the boat is bounding around and every waves shoves the blade one way or another. You need to keep the blade out of the water...drop the cassette on the gudgeons, and drop the blade into the cassette. Instead of that, I would probably mold in carbon/glass brackets for a one-piece rudder with "glassed on pintles" and make sure I could lash the rudder to the boat with a tether for insurance, while I was cursing for the 45 minutes it might take to get the blasted things lined up and engaged.

    If I were taking a smaller boat, in the 24-25 foot range, I'd probably search ebay for a used J-24 rudder or other transom-hung rudder and work with that.
    Last edited by AlanH; 10-10-2013 at 03:54 PM.
    1968 Selmer Series 9 B-flat and A clarinets
    1962 Buesher "Aristocrat" tenor saxophone
    Piper One Design 24, Hull #35; "Alpha"

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    Thanks, Alan. I don't suppose you have any photos? Buying a used rudder. What a brilliant idea for my Cal2-27. Lucie gave me a copy of your very sensible and minimalist electric plan for some Transpac past. I plan to scan it onto the forum for everybody else to read. I really appreciated your attitude.

  5. #5
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    Hi Jacky,

    I have a rudder cassette system I made. It actually steered me to Hawaii when my main rudder broke. It uses a similar construction technique to what Alan described. PM me, it might be available as there is the possibility I won't be sailing during the SHTP. It has been installed on several boats besides mine. It would be a bit large for your boat, but could be hung on the transom. An alternative, find a rudder of a modern catamaran and purchase it and the cassette.

  6. #6
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    Default Alan now Pat's Emergency Rudder

    Jackie, I actually have Alan's emergency rudder and have adapted the transom part to fit a Wyliecat with an outboard mount receiver, but I do have his original bits. Let's talk Wed. night about a deal. I do carry it around on the OYRA, BAMA, and SSS ocean races, but maybe I could get along without it for some of them next year?

    I think a cassette/blade ER would be better than hanging over the transom trying to get those pintle thingies into that gudeon thing. That was hard for me to do back when I sailed Lasers and the rudder came off!

    Pat

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    Jackie,
    Okay I've been thinking, a dangerous activity for sure. Your other post asking about brackets reminded me you're using a wind vane for self-steering. I think that complicates the ER issue for several reasons. 1) The vane occupies the same space on the transom as the ER would. 2) If you can mount both the vane and the ER on the transom, you've got to have a mean of connecting the vane with the ER.

    If you were to use a J/24 rudder with its own tiller that means setting up those connections. If you were to use an ER in a cassette that's attached to your existing tiller it means a new set of lines added to the mix.

    By the way, if you use an ER connected to your regular tiller, you need to plan on how that will work if your forced to shove the regular rudder out and the shaft the tiller hooks onto goes with the rudder. The tiller needs to pivot on something.

    Pat

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    Yes, my Navik windvane complicates the process. With help from a friend, we disconnnected the paddle and vane from the mounting frame. It is currently in three parts. I suspect, if I have to do that offshore, I can, and replace the current paddle with an emergency transom-hung rudder. I have a Simrad tiller pilot.

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    I took a SC 27 to Hawaii and had a Navik vane on the boat. My idea was that if disaster struck, the vane was coming off, the emergency rudder was going on, and the autopilot was doing a lot of steering. Also, the skipper would be doing a lot of steering.

    note that if you can't mount a rudder with a tiller sticking into the cockpit, you can have the tiller stick out back like an enormous stinger. Mount a spinnaker pole crosswise across the cockpit to improve the angles and then use lines to a steering whipstaff in the cockpit, to do the steering. If done up cleverly, the autohelm can connect to the whipstaff.
    1968 Selmer Series 9 B-flat and A clarinets
    1962 Buesher "Aristocrat" tenor saxophone
    Piper One Design 24, Hull #35; "Alpha"

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    Quote Originally Posted by P. Broderick - Elaine View Post
    Jackie,
    Okay I've been thinking, a dangerous activity for sure. Your other post asking about brackets reminded me you're using a wind vane for self-steering. I think that complicates the ER issue for several reasons. 1) The vane occupies the same space on the transom as the ER would. 2) If you can mount both the vane and the ER on the transom, you've got to have a mean of connecting the vane with the ER.

    If you were to use a J/24 rudder with its own tiller that means setting up those connections. If you were to use an ER in a cassette that's attached to your existing tiller it means a new set of lines added to the mix.

    By the way, if you use an ER connected to your regular tiller, you need to plan on how that will work if your forced to shove the regular rudder out and the shaft the tiller hooks onto goes with the rudder. The tiller needs to pivot on something.



    Pat
    This part is kind of important. Ask Rob MacFarlane about what it's like to sail to Hawaii with a main rudder that's jammed over on one side.

    I don't think that a J-24 rudder is big enough to steer a Cal 27. Or rather, it could steer a Cal 27 as long as the main rudder is either gone, or jammed on centerline, or completely free-spinning. You absolutely need to set up a system in your cockpit where a tiller or whipstaff can be connected to lines that go to the tiller. On the other hand, the rudder I made that Pat has, probably would do the job on your Cal 27.

    There ARE other options...watch ebay for stuff like this.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Boaters-Resa...d5fa39&vxp=mtr

    Not that I'm suggesting that a Capri 22 rudder will steer your Cal, but you get the idea.
    1968 Selmer Series 9 B-flat and A clarinets
    1962 Buesher "Aristocrat" tenor saxophone
    Piper One Design 24, Hull #35; "Alpha"

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