Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 60

Thread: Tracker type comparison for use in the SHTP

  1. #31
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    284

    Default

    Since I'm signed up my .02c is what Brian said. If trackers are mandated (hopefully not) no check ins by the racer (the tracker takes care of that)

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    609

    Default

    I competed in what I recall was the last SHTP (2000) that had a check-in (via SSB or VHF w/relay) with no penalty, nor tracking. In the following races check-ins carried a penalty.

    A tracker IS NOT a check-in device, unless the check-in is to see if the YellowBrick or such unit is working. A tracker is an entertainment tool for those ashore, not for the racers. It's a great tool and I'm not against the SHTP competitors carrying them but I'm very much against using them as a check-in tool. No other race uses them this way. All races that have a check-in requirement (which is all) need to do so via SSB or SatPhone.

    So the decision needs to be made...... is the check-in a safety tool or not? If it is then a tracker does not meet the requirement. A check-in is just that, a competitor checking-in as a confirmation that all is well onboard and to report their position.

    I was very disturbed to hear that the communications requirements were change last minute in the 2012 SHTP to allow the tracker to fulfill the check-in requirement even though it took no human intervention to complete this "check-in". I'm also against using a tracker to check-in for the same reason BobJ stated.

    We will have to tighten the rules to make it clear racers are not allowed to take a tracker offline or obscure it's satellite view in some fashion.
    So there will be a penalty for the tracker NOT working and checking-in, not the person?? Getting kind of funny now folks. I personally know of several cases of teams intentionally taking their tracker below and burying it under gear or in aluminum foil for a portion or the entire race. I've also known of many tracker failures not due to cheating including once having sheered off the tracker antenna from the stern pulpit due to a flogging sheet after broaching.

    To me getting rid of the tracker eliminates several problems regarding cheating and eliminates the prospect of someone cheating by going online anytime they want and viewing the fleet positions...... this is a major problem in other races. The overall winner of the Pac Cup was penalized right off the podium once they were caught.

    Also, do people onshore really need to see where each competitor is every moment during the race? Isn't one or two positions reports per/24 hours enough? I've had numerous people tell me in the years since the trackers came on the market that they waste way to much time looking at the race website and it kind of takes away the excitement of waiting for the next day's position report to see the latest developments.

    Greg

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    37.205346,-121.963398
    Posts
    788

    Default

    Thanks Greg for the history. So we now have established precedence for check ins not required, check ins required, and tracker data serving as a check in.

    Regards,
    Brian

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    111

    Default

    FWIW, in our PSSA races, boats miss check-ins a few times a year. Sometimes it's because of safety that the DON'T check-in as they are dealing with boat handling matters in strong winds during the few minutes of our check-ins. Sometimes the skipper is resting/over sleeping. More often he's having radio or power issues. Since my involvement, no one who missed a check-in did so because they required assistance.

    But what if someone misses multiple check-ins? This too has happened. It's always been because of onboard power or radio issues. Theoretically it could be because the skipper went overboard or is incapacitated to such as extent they can't reach their EPIRB. PSSA covers the former eventuality by mandating a PLB, and recommending that it be worn while on deck. The latter, while possible seems terribly remote. I'm reminded of a competitor in the '79 Bermuda 1-2 who was incapacitated for 3 days while he passed a stone. Then sailed into St. Georges a new man.

    Stones aside, I don't see how check-ins can be about safety. Collecting and disseminating position data could be a reason, or for simple camaraderie. I assume the RC will be providing the once a day position data to the fleet. Tracking data has often been more accurate than skipper transmitted data. For camaraderie it's probably better to set up a daily non-mandatory SSB chat hour, sometime around beer o'clock.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    79

    Default

    For what it's worth, I have had a DL InReach velcroed to a bulkhead inside my cabin and it has been sending automatic position reports for the last 4 months every 4 hours when the boat isn't underway, and every 10 minutes when my SOG is over 2 knots. It hasn't yet missed a single position report from inside the cabin. It is kept charged through a 5 volt switching regulator that draws 0.1 amp from the boat's 12 volt supply. You can buy chargers that are a little less efficient for $10 at Radio Shack.

    I plan on entering the race. I'm just waiting for the inspection results on my 53 year old Ariel, and overcoming my own reticence to drill 40 holes in my balsa cored deck - over which I will cry many tears - to install clothesline (lifeline) stanchions. I'm still looking for stanchion bases that I can attach to the hull instead that won't act like little sea anchors when she's heeled with her rail in the water (a normal underway attitude for my boat).

    I always carry a PLB in a fannypack when I'm out. It never gets in the way and it seems like a good precaution. I have a strip of "supervelcro" on the top of my helmet to which I'd slap the PLB (if I'm bobbing in the water I won't be too fashion conscious) - I learned that trick from the Coasties. Besides the obvious need if you go overboard - you may not find the EPIRB among all the flotsam if you abandon after it gets kicked out of its holder. I suppose most of us wouldn't step into the liferaft until the last inch of the rail sinks below the surface. By then, the EPIRB may have drifted away. And having an active PLB in addition to an active EPIRB does say rather emphatically: "Yes, I really mean it. I'm in trouble here."

    I don't want to debate over whether PLBs should be required. IMHO, it's a matter of personal choice and personal risk assessment (as should be lifelines).

    However, I think the requirement to check in might prevent an unnecessary SAR mission if you're out there drifting around looking like your vessel is NUC ("not under command"). With the DL, I can send a text message saying: "I'm becalmed/beset by weather and hove to with a sea anchor" or whatever. The YB won't let me say that "I'm OK - my radio is dead but don't worry about me." If the Coasties show up way out at sea, they may order you off your boat so they don't have to come out again. You can read an account of that happening from the story of S/V Satori (the actual rescue depicted in The Perfect Storm). Being able to say: "I'm OK," may save you from being forcibly evicted from your vessel (and the taxpayers a load of cash).

    The SPOT trackers will quit working about half way to Hawaii. Hawaii is outside their satellite footprint. SPOT is delusionally optimistic showing degraded service all the way to Hawaii.

    I've looked at the YB depiction of the 2012 Transpac, and it's very nicely done. I personally have no problem with carrying both the DL and the YB just to get the nice record of the voyage.
    Last edited by pbryant; 12-19-2013 at 08:01 PM. Reason: Deleted snarky comment about YB rhumb line depiction being wacky

  6. #36
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    284

    Default

    Boy I'm glad I'm not RC, it must be tough job trying to anticipate and make the best decisions for safety and practicability and keep everyone happy!
    An addendum to my post above ... if trackers are mandated and used as check ins, in the event of a tracker going quiet perhaps there could be a protocol on contacting the boat whose tracker has gone silent ie, boat has ssb or has satphone or has DL or has SPOT...or a combination of those - call, text before rescue ..or something along those lines.

    There really is no silver bullet. Whatever RC decides is fine with me.

    SPOT does work out to Hawaii...I have followed boats in previous races that have carried SPOT to and from Hawaii.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    3,485

    Default

    Being on RC is not for the faint of heart.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    79

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WBChristie View Post
    SPOT does work out to Hawaii...I have followed boats in previous races that have carried SPOT to and from Hawaii.
    Spot trackers use the Globalstar sat. constellation. Unlike its name, Globalstar coverage isn't global and is limited by the the location of downlink stations. While the Spot trackers may work in and near Hawaii, that area is outside the Globalstar service footprint: http://www.globalstar.com/en/index.p...06&sidenav=232. Globalstar doesn't even claim "fringe" service in the area. Spot claims: "reduced or no coverage" in and near Hawaii. Here is their coverage map (identical to Globalstar's - just more optimistic) http://www.findmespot.ca/en/index.php?cid=109.

    For some reason Spot believes the Globalstar satellites have a larger coverage area than Globalstar itself claims. Probably an edict from the Marketing department.

    I wouldn't depend on Spot anywhere near Hawaii.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    119

    Default

    I would be interested to hear from Rob Tryon concerning Dirk's (?) rescue in the last SHTP. As a participant I was aware that his SSB check-ins had stopped but not why. He failed to contact the CG on 2182 so set off his EPIRB. So far the YB played no role except to let people know the boat was still afloat but I don't know what the RC knew at this point. There can be no doubt that the YB was responsible for saving his boat and this raises the question of ones responsibility when abandoning your vessel. Many people feel strongly that you should sink the vessel when you abandon it so that it does not become a hazard to navigation. Would this responsibility be lessened if the position of the vessel could be broadcast? Would Dirk's situation and rescue have been different if he hadn't been in last position at the time of his rescue?
    Personally I was opposed to the YB in 2012 for financial reasons but it brought so much pleasure to those people who had helped me participate that I'm very much in favor of a tracking system now. And it did save Dirks' boat.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    37.205346,-121.963398
    Posts
    788

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WBChristie View Post
    Boy I'm glad I'm not RC, it must be tough job trying to anticipate and make the best decisions for safety and practicability and keep everyone happy!
    An addendum to my post above ... if trackers are mandated and used as check ins, in the event of a tracker going quiet perhaps there could be a protocol on contacting the boat whose tracker has gone silent ie, boat has ssb or has satphone or has DL or has SPOT...or a combination of those - call, text before rescue ..or something along those lines.

    There really is no silver bullet. Whatever RC decides is fine with me.

    SPOT does work out to Hawaii...I have followed boats in previous races that have carried SPOT to and from Hawaii.
    I for one agree with your points and am proposing what I have outlined below. The committee will be discussing this further.

    1. Tracker serves as check in and is mandatory. Yellow Brick is the current tracker of choice. Other means can also be used but are not mandatory. RC will confirm tracker operation prior to race start on each vessel.
    2. A SSB and VHF check in period will be part of the event, two per day as in the past. During that period positions will be read to the fleet from the Comm vessel. Anyone could also contribute their position at this time. This would also serve as a period for general discussion.
    3. Any vessel not showing up on the tracker will be flagged for hailing during this check in period. SSB and VHF will be used. The RC will attempt contact by email/sat phone if they are available on the vessel.
    4. No penalty will be applied for not checking in because the RC's mandate of carrying a tracker will shift that responsibility to the RC. Racers should make a good faith effort to confirm their YB is working by monitoring the twice daily check in, checking email, sat phone, or text via sat phone, if available.
    5. VHF, AIS (receive only), EPRIB, and Tracker are the required communication vehicles.

    Note: YB can be used to flag an emergency as stated here. This provides two vehicles to flag a problem, one to the RC and others, and one to USCG via EPIRB:

    "Each Yellowbrick has a little red button under a security cover. If during the hire the red button is held down for 5 seconds then the Yellowbrick will send a position report with a special flag, and our systems automatically send an alert message via SMS and email to those people you specified."

    Have fun out there.
    Brian
    Last edited by brianb; 12-21-2013 at 09:29 PM. Reason: Forgot quotes

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •