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  1. #1
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    Default Guadalupe Island Race - a few questions to the PSSA team ?

    Hello PSSA (Slacker),

    In case I get my act together and find myself in Marina Del Rey around Feb 15 I wanted to find out a bit about the GI race. Here are a few questions:

    1. While in Mexican waters what sort of permits/licenses should be carried ?
    1.5 Is a Norcal PHRF cert OK ?
    2. Are there any activities at the finish line area (Avalon ?), or does everyone move on to home ports ?
    3. What do you folks use for tracking ? Looks like maybe Spot ?
    4. Any sense of the fleet size/content this year ? Is this going to be the year of the Mini ?
    5. Is is legal to stop at Guadalupe and add ballast to the port rail ?

    Thanks,
    Brian
    Last edited by brianb; 12-10-2013 at 02:33 PM.

  2. #2
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    Hi Brian,

    OK, here we go:

    1. Yes, we're learning about a new permit process to enter Mexican waters if you go within 12 miles of the mainland or an island. The link is here & it describes the process: http://www.inm.gob.mx/index.php/page...autico/en.html . You will also need a Mexican courtesy flag, and your registration papers. To my knowledge no one has ever been boarded, but the Mexican Navy does come up on Ch. 16 down at the island with some regularity and ask some questions.

    1.5 I shouldn't speak for the PRO, but more than likely he would accept the NorCal rating.

    2. We've only had one finish near Avalon, so we haven't yet had anything organized. Though Jerome & I had a good time "recovering" there in 2012.

    3. Most likely we'll be using the Kattack system that consolidates SPOT tracks

    4. Around 15 boats are intending to race. Probably means 12 or so on the line, and yes, should be a good mini fleet.

    5. Sure. Just pick up some island shell fisherman by offering some rum & drop them in Avalon. Downside is they smell funny. Just hope for some spray to wash everyone off on the way up. Oh, and they hate Bob Segar, by the way.

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    The Poop From Impounded Boats In Mexico Hits the Fan

    January 8, 2014 – Mexico



    For decades Mexico has been a favorite cruising destination of both American and Canadian sailors. But will the recent impounds now scare them away?

    A month after 338 foreign boats were illegally impounded in various marinas around Mexico, the poop is really starting to hit the fan. Officials from various Mexican agencies, such as Tourism, were hoping that AGACE, a subdivision of Hacienda (the Mexican IRS) which mistakenly created the fiasco, would be able to resolve the situation by Christmas or at least the beginning of the new year. They didn't succeed.

    There are three kinds of poop currently hitting the fan.

    First, Cleve Hardaker, Staff Commodore of the Pacific Coast Yachting Association, reports that "a good many racers are already canceling plans to sail to Mexico." During a phone conversation, Hardaker said that "hardly anybody is signing up for the Ensenada Race," which is historically the biggest race to Mexico. This certainly doesn't bode well either for MEXORC, the every-other-year major sailing regatta on Banderas Bay. The Mexican government regularly invests several million dollars in that event. Hardaker also reported that one San Diego yacht club that had regularly held races into Mexican waters — i.e. the Coronado Islands — has now revised the courses to keep boats out of Mexican waters.

    The second poop is that a Mexican television producer has been filming and interviewing boat owners, marina staff, and officials in Ensenada — where a large number of boats have been impounded — for a segment intended for American television. That's not good for Mexico or the rest of the West Coast sailing industry.

    The biggest bomb of all, however, is that Associated Press, which provides stories for every major newspaper and television in the United States, is planning to run a big story on the problem late this week or early next week. Our understanding is that the impetus for this story was the impounding of a multimillion-dollar boat in Ensenada, a boat that had gone to Ensenada for a few days for boat work, and a boat that was in full compliance with all Mexican regulations. The owner and captain were aboard when AGACE auditors came around. The auditors told them that everything was fine, but nonetheless put the boat on the impound list, later saying they didn't observe a HIN (hull identification number) on the boat. The HIN is clearly imprinted in the hull exactly where it should be. (This experience roughly matches that of ours and our catamaran Profligate.)

    Our plan at Latitude had been to begin a petition campaign to only officials in Mexico, the United States and Canada. We didn't want to go to the mainstream media just yet, as the story is going to create massive negative publicity for Mexico and a lot more innocent victims. But with the AP story a fait accompli, we agreed to be interviewed extensively by the AP. We tried to make it clear that our belief is that this is all a giant mistake, and that when President Pena Nieto and others in his Administration learn what has happened, they aren't going to be very happy, especially since AGACE, having impounded 338 boats, hasn't been able to figure out the process for un-impounding them. Few, if any, want their names associated with any part of this drama, but that's not our way. So we suppose if things go south and AGACE needs a boat owner's head to use as a piñata, it will be ours.

    The bottom line is that a lot of boat owners, boat businesses, boat workers, and a wonderful destination country are suffering for the blundering of one new sub-agency of the Mexican IRS. We implore all of you to take a few minutes to copy and send a petition — see next item — to as many officials and media outlets as possible. Then get on your Facebook page and encourage all your friends to do so also. For while on the surface it may appear to only affect boat owners in Mexico and nautical tourism in Mexico, it actually has major negative ramifications for the whole West Coast sailing industry.

    - latitude / richard

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    Sample Letters to Officials & the Media

    January 8, 2014 – World of Latitude 38

    For the sake of American and Canadian boat owners, the country of Mexico, marine businesses and workers in Mexico, and marine businesses and workers on the west coast of the United States, we beseech you to take a few minutes to send your thoughts to Mexican and US officials, as well as the US media. This is very important, as we need thousands of emails sent to make an impact.

    At the bottom of this page, we'll provide a list of officials and their email addresses. If they are Mexican, send the Spanish version of the letter we provide or a Google translation of one of the short sample messages. In the case of President Obama, Secretary of State John Kerry, US House of Representatives Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, Senators Feinstein and Boxer, it's a little more complicated, as you generally have to fill out your name and address before you can send a message. Please don't let this be an obstacle, as it's important to get their attention or that of their underlings.

    If you want to keep it short and quick, send a message similar to one of the following:

    1) I have followed the reports of tens of millions of dollars worth of US and Canadian boats having been illegally impounded in Mexico for more than a month. These boats need to be permitted free transit as guaranteed by international maritime law.

    2) I have cruised Mexico aboard my boat before and loved the country and the people. But the unfortunate illegal impounding of 338 US and Canadian boats means I will not be returning any time soon.

    3) I have spend years preparing my boat for a cruise to Mexico, Central America and the South Pacific. The actions of AGACE have convinced me it's not safe for foreigners to bring their vessels to Mexico, so I will reluctantly bypass Mexico.

    4) I was about to buy a boat/condo/property in Mexico. If AGACE can illegally impound foreign boats, there is no way I can believe my investment will be safe, so I am looking elsewhere to invest.

    You get the idea. All these represent the thoughts contained in letters we've received at Latitude 38. Length and formality of emails are nowhere near as important as the number of emails. Be respectful, and please realize the actions of AGACE absolutely do not reflect the attitude of Mexico as a whole. President Pena Nieto, Immigration, Tourism and other major industries have emphatically been encouraging nautical tourism and trying to make it easier for visitors.

    If you want to get a more detailed message and explanation of the situation, we've created the following letter for your consideration. The President of the Mexican Marina Owner's Association has read it and said " . . . it describes the problem very clearly." The Spanish translation was done by the manager of a marina in Mexico that has not been hit by AGACE, but he is frightened not just for his marina, but for the entire marine industry in Mexico.

    THE ENGLISH VERSION:

    Three hundred and thirty-eight pleasure vessels worth tens of millions of dollars continue to be illegally impounded at 12 marinas in Mexico. Most of the vessels are American and Canadian, and range in value from $10,000 to several million dollars. In many instances these boats represent the single most valuable financial asset of the owners.

    I am urging your help in seeing that this injustice — as well as the damage to the reputation of Mexico — is brought to an immediate halt.

    In late November about 100 auditors of the AGACE division of SAT (the Mexican IRS), backed by a large contingent of marines armed with machine guns, descended on seven marinas in Mexico, from Ensenada to Acapulco and Puerto Vallarta to Cancun. Their goal was to make sure that all the boats in the marinas complied with Mexico's very reasonable regulations for visits by foreign vessels, and they ended up thinking they had caught over three hundred foreign boat owners who owed big tax bills.

    Unfortunately, the head of the relatively new agency, which is charged with overseeing the importation of 'merchandise' to Mexico, is a politico and did not understand that foreign cruising vessels are not imported "merchandise" like appliances or electronics, but rather a very valuable part of the nautical tourism industry. Foreign cruising vessels are not in Mexico for permanent importation, which is why they are issued 10-Year Temporary Import Permits.

    Most of the 338 vessels that AGACE claimed were out of compliance were not out of compliance. The problem was that the owners were not aboard, and thus were not able to show auditors their Temporary Import Permits, the location where their HIN numbers were permanently engraved in the hulls, the engine serial numbers and so forth. It did not help that the auditors knew nothing about boats and were thus unable to distinguish between basic things such as boat brands from brands of electronic components in the boats.

    Much of Mexican law is based on Napoleanic law, so if the boat owner wasn't around to show AGACE agents the necessary paperwork and numbers, the boat was assumed to be out of compliance, and thus put in 'precautionary embargo.' Embargoed boats are not permitted to leave the dock. Astonishingly, AGACE has yet to officially inform a single boat owner that their boat has been impounded, so many boat owners still aren't even aware that their boats have been impounded.

    About a week after the initial raid, AGACE did a second check, usually with marina managers and their lawyers present, and found out that almost every boat they had impounded was actually in compliance with Mexican law. You would think that AGACE would immediately release these innocent boats. Alas, AGACE has said it will take 45 to 120 days for them to complete the paperwork necessary to do this.

    This delay in freeing the boats is both outrageous and in violation of international maritime law that guarantees free passage of vessels except in cases where a crime has been committed. The damage can also be seen in the sudden lack of interest by Americans in racing to Mexico, the cancellation of a three-race series from San Diego to Mexico, and American cruisers vowing never to bring their boats to Mexico. The reason is simple: foreigners now have reason to fear that their financial assets and investments can be capriciously taken from their control. Officials of other branches of Mexican government, such as Tourism, have understandably been horrified by this action by AGACE, which they described as "ridiculous."

    For the sake of the owners of these boats, as well as the wonderful country of Mexico and its people, I beseech you to do whatever you can to help resolve this unfortunate situation. Time is of the essence, for by the end of the week the Associated Press will be sending a story on this to every major newspaper and television station in the United States, at which point the damage to Mexico could be even more significant and long-lasting.

    I want to emphasize that I, like all others who cruise Mexico, love Mexico, love the people of Mexico, and believe in full compliance with Mexico's laws. Please see that the best 'ambassadors for Mexico' don't become victims of the unfortunate misunderstanding of the law by one small agency of the Mexican government.

    SPANISH VERSION:

    Trescientas treinta y ocho embarcaciones recreativas con un valor de decenas de millones de dólares continúan siendo incautadas ilegalmente en 12 marinas en México. La mayoría de las embarcaciones son de origen Americanas y Canadienses, y están valuadas desde $10,000 dólares hasta varios millones de dólares. En la mayoría de las instancias estos botes representan el único activo financiero valioso de los propietarios.

    Estoy pidiendo tu ayuda para ver esta injusticia – también el daño a la reputación de México. Esto debe cesar inmediatamente.

    A finales de Noviembre alrededor de 100 auditores de la división AGACE del SAT (el IRS Mexicano), respaldados por un gran contingente de Marinos armados con armas automáticas, descendieron en 12 marinas en México, desde Ensenada hasta Acapulco y Puerto Vallarta a Cancún. Su objetivo era asegurar todos los botes en la marina cumplieran con las regulaciones razonables Mexicanas para la visita de embarcaciones extranjeras, y terminaron pensando que habían capturado mas de trescientos dueños de embarcaciones extranjeras que deben grandes cantidades de impuestos.

    Desgraciadamente, el jefe de la relativamente nueva agencia, que es encargado de supervisar la importación de “mercancía” a México, es un político y no entendió que las embarcaciones de crucero no son importadas como “mercancía” como electrodomésticos o electrónica, sino más bien una parte muy valiosa de la industria del turismo náutico. Las embarcaciones foráneas de crucero no están en México como importación permanente, razón por la cual solo tienen un permiso de 10 –años temporal.

    La mayoría de las 338 embarcaciones que AGACE incauto estaban fuera de cumplimiento no estaban fuera de cumplimiento. El problema fue que los dueños no estaban abordo, y esto no permitió que fuera posible mostrarle a los auditores sus permisos temporales de importación, numero de documento permanente gravado en el casco, la localización del numero HIN, el numero de serie del motor y así sucesivamente. Esto no ayudo a que los auditores no conocían nada acerca de los botes y no se pudieran distinguir entre las cosas básicas entre marcas de botes y marcas de componentes electrónicos en los botes.

    La mayoría de la ley mexicana es basada en la ley de napoleón, así que si el dueño del bote no estaba alrededor para mostrarle a los agentes de AGACE los papeles necesarios y los números, se asume que el bote esta fuera de cumplimiento, y esto pone en “embargo precautorio”. Los botes embargados no se les permite que dejen el muelle. Asombrosamente, AGACE debe informar a cada uno de los dueños de cada embarcación que su embarcación ha sido embargada, así que muchos de los dueños de embarcaciones ni siquiera saben que sus embarcaciones han sido embargadas.

    Alrededor de una semana después de la incursión inicial de AGACE hizo una segunda revisión, usualmente con los administradores de la marina y sus abogados presentes, y encontraron que casi todos los botes embargados, estaban en cumplimiento de la ley Mexicana. Uno pensara que AGACE inmediatamente soltaría los botes inocentes. AGACE ha dicho que le tomara de 45 a 120 días para completar el papeleo necesario para hacer esto.

    Este retraso para liberar las embarcaciones a la vez es indignantes y viola las leyes marítimas internacionales que garantizan la libre navegacion de las embarcaciones con excepción de aquellas en que se haya cometido algún crimen. El daño también puede verse en la falta de interés en las regatas organizadas a México, la cancelación de una serie de carreras de San Diego a México, y los navegantes Americanos han jurado nunca traer embarcaciones a México. La razón es simple, como extranjeros ahora temen que sus activos financieros y sus inversiones puedan ser caprichosamente tomados de sus manos. Oficiales y otras ramas del gobierno mexicano, como la de turismo, se han horrorizado justificadamente por esta acción "ridícula" por AGACE.

    Por el bien de los propietarios de estas embarcaciones, y por el bien de México, y la gente de México, te suplico que hagas todo lo que puedas hacer para ayudar a resolver esta desafortunada situación. El Tiempo es esencial para el final de la semana la prensa estará mandando una historia a todos los periódicos y televisoras en Estados Unidos, a este punto el daño a México será significante y duradero.

    Quisiera enfatizar que me gustan todos los que navegan por México, aman México, Aman las personas de México, y creen estar legalmente conforme con las leyes Mexicanas. Por favor, como los mejores embajadores de Mexico no se conviertan en víctimas del desafortunado malentendido de la ley por una pequeña agencia del gobierno Mexicano.

    ADDRESSES:

    1) Claudia Ruiz Massieu, Secretary of Tourism for Mexico.
    cruizm@sectur.gob.mx

    2) Carlos Joaquin sub secretary of SECTUR, which is Tourism.
    C. P. Carlos Joaquín González
    Subsecretario de Operación SECTUR
    cjoaquing@sectur.gob.mx

    3) Luis Lara, a political appointee, the one at AGACE who ordered the audits:
    Lic. Luis Lara
    Administrador General de Auditoria de Comercio Exterior (AGACE)
    luis.laragutierrez@sat.gob.mx

    4) Lic. Aristóteles Núñez, Jefe del SAT, which is the Mexican IRS, and thus is Lic. Luis Lara's boss.
    Lic. Aristóteles Núñez
    aristoteles.nunez@sat.gob.mx

    5) Lic. Sergio Alcocer Martinez de Castro,
    Subsecretario para America del Nortes:
    salcocer@sre.gob.mx

    6) Ambassador E. Anthony Wayne, U.S. Ambassador to Mexico.
    Emb.eua.mex@state.gov

    7) Eduardo Medina-Mora, Mexico's ambassador to the United States. Mexembusa@sre.gob.mx

    8) Mexico's Consulate in Los Angeles:
    lapublico@sre.gob.mx

    9) Mexico's Consulate in San Francisco:
    lapublico@sre.gob.mx

    10) President Barak Obama:
    president@whitehouse.gov.
    You have to sign up for this. No, we do not expect President Obama to threaten to nuke Mexico is they don't release the 338 U.S. and Canadian boats impounded in Mexico. But if the office gets enough emails, the right person may be alerted to look into it. Every little bit helps.

    11. Secretary of State John Kerry.
    Go to http://contact-us.state.gov and fill out the form.

    In addition to these elected and appointed officials, please write to your local and regional newspapers. The important thing is that the word gets spread as far and wide as possible. Mexico needs to feel the heat. Thank you for your help.

    - latitude / richard

  4. #4
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    Foreign Boat Impoundment Story Goes Mainstream

    January 10, 2014 – Mexico

    If you're tired of reading about the foreign boat impoundment fiasco in Mexico, you can imagine how sick we are of writing about it. But we'll soldier on until there is a resolution. The following are our comments to an AP news story that has appeared in Yahoo, the Washington Post, Fox News, MSN, and all over the place.

    1. U.S. and Canadian boats are not left "in limbo." If impounded, they can be restricted to the dock to up to four months . . . at which point the Mexican government could decide to release, fine or confiscate them.

    2. "Storming" the marinas wasn't an accurate characterization of what happened in late November. While AGACE agents arrived with marines armed with machine guns and a prison bus, and worked all through the night, the auditors were unfailingly polite. Indeed, they often told boat owners everything was fine, which is why some boat owners were so surprised to later find their boat on the impound list after all.

    3. Big boats have been impounded, too. In just a short circle of our boat on Banderas Bay, five boats worth a total of more than $5 million have been impounded.

    4. A Temporary Import permit does not prove ownership, a boat document does that. A TIP does not guarantee Mexico that a boat owner won't leave Mexico without their boat. Indeed, TIPs were created specifically to give foreign boat owners a legal means to leave Mexico without their boat. Having a TIP does not make it illegal to sell one's boat in Mexico, although there are legal guidelines that have to be followed.

    5. It is indeed the responsibility of boat owners to comply with Mexican laws, which are easy to comply with. The problem was that if a boat owner wasn't aboard his or her boat, the auditors couldn't see some of the information they needed to see, and their default was to put most of these boats on the impound list. Even if the auditors were shown the necessary information when they visited again 10 days later, the boat stayed on the impound list. In the case of the marina we're in, AGACE discovered that 52 of the 53 boats they'd put on the list were in fact in compliance with Mexican law. Alas, they are still on the impound list and may be unable to move for four months.

    In the last 17 years, our catamaran Profligate has been cleared into virtually every port and marina in Mexico without a problem. Despite their being no change in the law with regard to TIPs, she was nonetheless impounded because nobody was aboard to show auditors things like the documentation number in the hull, engine serial numbers, and point out she's a custom-built boat and therefore doesn't have a brand or model name. Unfortunate and ridiculous.

    6. In one case, a rep for the owner of a number of boats showed AGACE agents the same information for all the boats in his control. Most were not put on the impound list, but one inexplicably was.

    7. A TIP is not a tax, it's a permit.

    In the case of the AP story that appeared on the ABC International news site, the reader comments were devastating, citing a list of alleged abuses that would tend to make one's hair stand on end. Such as this one from Lou Kief: "In 1984 we came to Mexico on an old wooden sailboat we had rebuilt and spent the hurricane season in Puerto Vallarta's only marina at the time. We did all our paperwork to the letter, were good visitors, and waited for the weather to be favorable for us to continue our trip to the Panama Canal. While in Mexico, our "Temporary Import Permit" — which is issued for one year at that time — was set to expire. In bold letters at the bottom of the permit it said that it could be renewed at the port captain's office for an additional year for no fee. When I went to the port captain's office to get my free renewal, he told me it would cost $600 US dollars! I showed him the print where it said the renewal is free on the page. His reply: 'It is free but I'm going to make you go back to the United States to get it for free there. If you want it renewed here it will cost you $600 USD — that's how much you will spend on airfare to go to San Diego, hotels, meals.' It was extortion plain and simple, something officials in Mexico have been very good at for a long, long time."

    Oh geez, just the kind of stories Mexico and fans of Mexico don't need to hear. Two points: 1) There weren't any Temporary Import Permits in 1984; and 2) 1984 was a long, long time ago, and Mexican port captains — and other civil servants — have become much, much more professional. While we're not saying bribes and corruption have disappeared in Mexico, we don't believe it's anything like it used to be.

    There was also a different story in the Orange County Register:

    1. Auditors weren't coming looking specifically for HINs (which are hull identification numbers), but primarily for Temporary Import Permits, document numbers in the hull and such. Unfortunately, the Mexican officials don't realize that HINs are poor indicators of anything, as boats built in the U.S. before 1974 don't have them, nor do most boats from many countries in Europe. In many other cases, the HIN number was ground out when the boat hull was sanded for repainting. Additionally, many hull numbers, even by companies such as Catalina, were inscribed with cheap engraving tools. As such, it's easy for anybody to put any hull number on any boat. That's why the document number permanently affixed to the hull is the U.S. Coast Guard standard.

    2. The quotes from Juan Hussong, our friend from Ensenada, made it appear that he and the owners of impounded boats are at cross purposes: "Juan Hussong, a Mexican national with homes in both San Diego and Ensenada, had his boat inspected and cleared during the audit. He argues that the boat owners are responsible for the correct documentation. The marina managers are worried because they think they are going to lose customers, but honestly, it’s a new government and we have a new president, and they are trying to make things legal."

    We agree with Juan that owners are responsible for correct documentation, which is why we and the overwhelming majority of foreign boat owners have it. It's so easy and inexpensive to get, why wouldn't anybody have it? The problem was that if nobody was aboard to show auditors evidence of compliance, the boat was put on the impound list — and stayed their even if the auditors were later shown the evidence within the prescribed time.

    Hussong is also right about the new president and attitude toward tax collection in Mexico. Mexico has long had one of the lowest tax collection rates in the world, and the abuses are rampant. But the thing is, the abuses are primarily with regard to income and real estate taxes. Unlike the fateful assumption made by AGACE, cruisers sailing around in Mexico with a TIP are not tax cheats.

    What's next? One would hope that the tremendous negative publicity will help resolve the issue quickly. AGACE has sent most of the impounded boat's TIPs to Banjercito for verification, and is soon going to learn that they are not fraudulent, and the owners of the impounded boats are in Mexico legally and don't owe any tax. Hopefully AGACE will swallow their pride, with a big help from Tourism and others, and the boats will be released.

    Sometimes, however, Mexican agencies can be stubborn. As such, there is no guarantee that AGACE won't respond by hitting all the other marinas in Mexico, such as the three big ones in La Paz, the three in Mazatlan, two more big ones in the Vallarta area, as well as Barra, Ixtapa and others. If they do, and they heed the same standards as they did auditing boats in the first eight marinas, there could soon be more than 1,000 foreign boats impounded in Mexico.

    The Register article notes that Mary Baker, owner of the Mary Conlin Company in Newport Beach, which specializes in boat documentation services, is advising clients not to go to Mexico at this time. Rafael Alcantara, Harbormaster at Riviera Nayarit in La Cruz, encourages U.S. mariners to come to Mexico, noting that AGACE hasn't conducted a raid since late November.

    We at Latitude 38 aren't giving any advice. Given all the negative publicity, we can't imagine that AGACE and Mexico would double down on this blunder. Then again, it's unimaginable that they ever made the blunder in the first place. After all, as we pointed out, cruisers are Mexico's greatest goodwill ambassadors. To have so severely punished innocent goodwill ambassadors has been a disaster.

    The 32nd biennial San Diego to Vallarta Yacht Race is slated for March 13-21, and so far there are 22 superb entries. Presumably most of whom will stay for MEXORC, an event the Mexican government usually pours millions into. Given what's happened, and what might happen, it's unclear if entries will drop out or what. We hope the whole mess is resolved before then, and that Mexico starts a road back to redemption with a great Vallarta Race and a great MEXORC.

    What about the Ha-Ha? We expect there will be a 21st Annual Ha-Ha at the end of October, but only because we expect this fiasco will be long over by then. Obviously we would have no interest in luring anyone to Mexico if we felt there was any significant chance their boat would be recklessly impounded or confiscated.

    What to do if your boat is in Mexico now? Given the terrible publicity the first raid has generated, we can't imagine there will be others. But you never know. If might be cheap insurance to put copies of all your documents and TIP, as well as directions to the document number in your hull, and the HIN number — assuming your boat was ever given one — in a plastic bag and tape it to your lifelines. We know it sounds crazy, but these are crazy times, and others have decided to do it.

    - latitude / richard

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    Yup. Ben borrowed Tiger Beetle's dremmel tool and put the number "2" on Georgia's transom. We are heading to La Paz, where there will be a Club Cruceres meeting Wednesday evening.

    John, we are headed to the Mainland early February Hope to see you!

    Lucie

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    Jeremy Leonard:
    Hey, Richard! Will any of this affect boats entering Mex for the PV race or MEXORC?
    7 hours ago via mobile · Like

    Richard Spindler:
    Jeremy, one of the entries has been writing officials in Mexico saying that his participation, and that of 20 in his group, in both events is uncertain if he can't be assured his boat won't be impounded. The PV race has a great fleet, and the MEXORC is an event the Mexican government usually lavishes millions of dollars on. Mexico needs to resolve the impounded boat issue and AGACE problem immediately to prevent both these great events from being in jeopardy.
    7 hours ago · Like · 1

  7. #7
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    Richard Spindler
    9 hours ago ·
    HUNDREDS OF FOREIGN BOATS WORTH TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS REMAIN IMPOUNDED IN MEXICO. It's true that some 16 boats were freed from Opequimar Marina in Puerto Vallarta the other day, an unknown number were in the process of being released from Cabo San Lucas yesterday, and there were vague reports that some boats had or were about to be released in Acapulco. But the huge majority of boats still haven't been freed. To clarify a point, there are two levels of embargo or impoundment in Mexico; in the lower level, people can still go on their boats and live on them, and a higher level where yellow tape is put around them and nobody is allowed aboard. During the current fiasco, it's our understanding that all boats have been under the lower level embargo. One person has claimed that these boats have been free to come and go. Our understanding is that to do so would be a federal offense. For what it's worth, the definition of 'embargo' is "a government order prohibiting the movement of ships in and out of ports". All we know is that we, in conjunction with Dino at Grand Marina in Barra, were hoping to team up and start a new charity regatta from Tenacatita Bay to Barra. But as Profligate was on the list of boats in precautionary embargo, the port captain was under instructions not to let her leave. While he technically couldn't do that without a court order, we weren't about to push it. The really creepy thing in Mexico is that AGACE is firmly standing by their "obligation" to conduct these audits, and to take a month or so, according to a letter to Senator John McCain, to "verify" that the boats aren't stolen. Is there any reason to think that AGACE won't soon hit marinas that haven't been hit yet? And in some cases revisit boats that were already cleared but not given any record of being cleared? Not that we know of. Our thinking is that since AGACE had to put 338 out of 1,600 inspected foreign boats in embargo, the problem is not with foreign boat owners, the problem is with AGACE auditing and Mexican law that is not in compliance with reality (i.e. the demand to see what in some cases were non-existent HIN numbers). Mexico better get their stuff together soon, because the damage keeps getting worse. As we mentioned before, one of the reasons cited for the cancellation of the Cabo race was "events in Mexico". And now, at least one signed up entrant for the Vallarta Race and MEXORC is second guessing his participation in those events, for which he planned to have 20 people participate. If boat owners are scared, they're not going to come to Mexico. And lots of boat owners boat in the States and in Mexico remain concerned if not scared. In other news, yesterday we received the announcement that one new marina was about to open in Mexico and others are being planned for Mag Bay and the Chacala area. In other, other news, at the beginning of the year Mexico instituted a 16% tax on all food and beverages, even those sold in grocery stores. Given Mexico has a massive population of genuinely poor people, particularly in the south, we're confused at the thinking behind hitting them with a staggering new expense they can't afford. Mind you, this while the property tax on a half million dollar waterfront condo is a mere $150 a year.

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    Richard Spindler
    6 hours ago ·
    WHAT DOES 'EMBARGO' MEAN IN MEXICO? Elizabeth Shanahan has written that it's a FACT that people with boats that have been embargoed can take their boats out of the slip. That's not what we heard, so we posed the question to Neil Shroyer of Marina de La Paz, who is as up on Mexican maritime law as anyone. Neils writes: “Depositario” is a person that the provisionally impounded goods are entrusted to while the legal process goes through its stages. He can do with the goods as he sees fit, as long as they are not sold, destroyed, modified, or made unavailable to the legal process, So in answer to the question, it depends on the circumstances. If the vessel was officially “Deposited” with the owner of said vessel alter the “Embargo Precautorio” (a possibility), then that owner can move around on the vessel as long as she / he can produce the vessel at any time that the AGACE authorities request it be produced during the legal process. It I like being out on bail kind of. If the Owner/Depositario does not produce the vessel when required by the AGACE, then he could face fines and jail. If the vessel was “Deposited” with the Marina representative/ manager/ owner, after the “Embargo Precautorio, it would be entirely up to that person to allow the owner to move about, but if the owner took of with the vessel the person that was named “Depositario” would be responsible for the vessel not showing up or be available for trial and could even face jail time. If no “Depositario” is named by the AGACE, it means that the vessel is technically in AGACE´s possession and they are the “Depositarios”. That is why AGACE is or was pressing the Marinas to accept the “Deposito”, because if something happens to the vessel they would be responsible. Half the marinas accepted the deposito of the vessels impounded, the other half did not. Some vessels that were in marinas that did not accept the deposito have left the country and I do not know what AGACE can or would do about that. The law permits the return of the vessel (merchandise) so maybe if the owner proves it has left the country than possibly (in a positive scenario) they would pay the fine and that would be that. Worst case, maybe charged with wrongful disposal or theft of impounded goods." As AGACE has not named us the Depositario for Profligate, and our marina has refused to be the Depositario for our boat, AGACE is the Depositario. Since they have not only not given us permission to leave the slip — they haven't even contacted us — they have put us on the 'no go' list with the Port Captain — so we're not going anywhere. We don't think it risking an asset worth hundreds of thousands of dollars when it's in the control of an agency that doesn't seem to care how badly it damages Mexico's marine tourism industry. As we think everyone can see, the less you know about the complexities of Mexican maritime law, the better you'll feel. While everything was flexible in Mexico, everything was warm and fuzzy, and all problems could be solved. But with the cold, harsh actions of AGACE, Mexico suddenly seems like a much less friendly place, where one's valuable assets aren't as safe as they once were. Just ask any of the hundreds whose boats are still impounded after more than six weeks. Mexico needs to act quickly and forcefully to regain the confidence of visitors and investors. Just as anyone in the Tourism Department.

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    Richard Spindler
    BREAKING NEWS FROM MEXICO: Forty-Eight of 53 Boats to be Released at Riviera Nayarit Marina, La Cruz,

    Neil Shroyer the Marina de La Paz tells Latitude that 48 of the 53 boats that were impounded at the Riviera Nayarit are to be released. This according to officials at the marina, who have left the office for the day. Apparently AGACE officials are expected from Guadalajara tomorrow, which is presumably when the 48 boats will be released. The other five boats will continued to be held in precautionary embargo pending further investigation.

    Shroyer further tells us that 10 of 16 impounded boats have been released in Cabo San Lucas, and the marina is working with AGACE to free the other six boats.

    "Regarding future inspections," Shroyer, who is one of the most knowledgeable people in Mexico about maritime law, says, "there is nothing to be done regarding the right of the AGACE to do inspections of vessel TIPs since it is a legal obligation of every boat to have one. What I hope can be done is to have the AGACE agents better trained and to have a better inspection process that does not lead to the situation that their actions generated this time — which basically was that a whole bunch of boats that were correctly imported got temporarily impounded anyway. We hope AGACE will give us a chance to help them work out a system that promotes legal certainty both for the boaters and the authority. I don't expect AGACE to embark on a similar excursion in the near future without working out a better system with better trained personnel , one that would result in only boats that do not have their TIP being impounded and fined.
    "Another issue is constancy of inspection by AGACE. If you do not inspect for 15 years and expect everyone to be in compliance, and come down on boaters with an inspection process like the one they used, is not correct either. A constant low key inspection process should be in place, with a phase in time frame for non compliant vessels to comply, and then move into sanctions for non compliance.
    "The Marina Association has been working for the last three years with Aduana to try and get the Temporary Import Permit formats improved, get the documentation requirements simplified, get the information on the web page corrected, get the, Reglamento and especially the Reglas and Manuals to be clearer about the process."
    More updates as we get them, but things seem to be moving in the right direction.

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    Hundreds of Foreign Boat Remain Impounded In Mexico

    January 15, 2014 – Ensenada to Vallarta, Los Cabos to Cancun

    It's going on six weeks now that over 300 foreign-owned boats remain impounded in Mexican marinas following a sub-agency of the Mexican IRS conducting audit/raids on at least eight marinas. Thanks to their dubious auditing techniques and lack of familiarity with Mexican and US law, the agency saw fit to impound 338 out of 1,600 boats. That's 21% of all boats they inspected! Had they — or if they — hit all 30+ marinas in Mexico, it's likely that over 1,000 foreign boats will be impounded.

    Despite the public relations nightmare that has resulted for Mexico, the agency, AGACE, remains defiant, saying they have been working for the "safety" — what a joke! — of boat owners and to make sure that Mexico collects all the tax it is owed. AGACE suspects that many foreign-owned boats in Mexico have really been imported permanently and thus the owners are 'tax cheats'. This is ridiculous, of course, as AGACE has been finding out. In one marina 52 of the 53 boats impounded were shown to have the required 10-Year Temporary Import Permits, and one had an outdated permit. At least as bad is the fact that AGACE insists that it has up to four months to assess each case. Can anybody say, "Ruined winter cruise?" And think about those boats that are, against their owners wishes, confined to expensive marinas. Who should pay for that?

    Most of the boats that have been impounded were in compliance with all Mexican law, the only problem was the owners weren't aboard to show the auditors the things they needed to see, but couldn't see from the dock. In a land where you're innocent until proven guilty, hundreds of the impounded boats never should have been impounded. It would have helped if AGACE hadn't conducted sneak raids backed with marines armed with machine guns, but had simply made appointments with owners or owner's reps to confirm compliance. It would also have helped if AGACE made contact with the owners of the boats, which they have yet to do, and which is why many boat owners don't even know their boats have been impounded.

    As of this morning 16 boats had been released from Opequimar Marina in Puerto Vallarta, an unspecified number in Acapulco, and some were reportedly being released yesterday in Cabo San Lucas. But that means around 300 boats are still impounded.

    Even as some boats are being released, there is no assurance that defiant AGACE won't hit the marinas that haven't been hit yet — such as Marina Vallarta, Paradise Village Marina, the three big marinas in La Paz, and the three marinas in Mazatlan. People with boats in those marinas have a right to be concerned if not scared.

    The worst case would be if your boat had been in a marina AGACE had already visited, and been cleared. But then you moved to another marina, AGACE agents showed up, and you weren't aboard to show them what they needed to see. Your boat could end up impounded because AGACE doesn't give out certificates saying your boat had been cleared. We're not saying it's going to happen, we're just saying it could happen.

    The fallout for marine tourism and Mexico has been terrible, and with each passing day it gets worse. Here are a couple samples of the kinds of letters we've been getting:

    "As I recently wrote in a letter to Mexican officials, I recently purchased a Peterson 34, and was planning to sail her from my home waters of San Francisco Bay to Ensenada to have her refit. I planned on spending about $30,000 on the refit. I would then continue on to La Paz and the Mexican Riviera, where I wanted to spend the winter and spring before turning right for Polynesia in May. I figure I would have spent another $20,000 on a vacation with my wife in Mexico before continuing on to the South Pacific. Why did Mexico spend all these years encouraging visits by nautical tourists and then shoot itself in the foot like this? Unless this problem is resolved, I will spend my money elsewhere."
    — Steve Bryant, Peterson 34.

    "I am writing to you [a Mexican official] about the recent impound of more than 300 boats by a branch of the Mexican AGACE. I have sailed my own sailboat up and down the Mexican coast from Ensenada to Zihuatanejo for more than 10 years. At this time my boat is in the US, for which I am very thankful. My wife and I were planning to purchase a home in La Paz on our next visit to your beautiful country. I am sorry to say, we will not be returning to Mexico, at least not by boat. And after watching what has happened to the boat owners recently, I believe it would be a mistake to buy property in Mexico, when it can so easily be taken away for no reason. We have cancelled our intention to buy property in La Paz or anywhere else in Mexico. I love Mexico and have made many friends there. This incident is going to bring terrible hardship and undeserved consequences to the thousands of workers who derive their living from marinas and other tourism. What a sad, awful mistake you have made. I cannot imagine why, but it breaks my heart. It is shameful.
    — Charles Lane, San Francisco.

    "We're in the process of buying a new boat. As it's in Southern California, we were thinking of taking it to Mexico to get some work done on her. There is now ZERO chance of us doing that. There is a few thousand dollars that won't be spent in a Mexican boat yard, along with hotel rooms, air fares, etc. This is idiotic, and I have yet to get a reason why these folks would be so stupid."
    — Beau Vrolyk of Santa Cruz.

    In a side note to the last letter, one of the most expensive impounded boats had come to Mexico from San Diego for a few days of boat work. Despite AGACE agents assuring the captain and crew that everything was in order on their boat, when they tried to leave Mexico the port captain refused, saying the multi-million-dollar boat was impounded. That was in early December and she's still impounded.

    While many people in the Mexican government understand that it's not a good idea to scare the hell out of guests, potential guests, and investors by recklessly impounding foreign-owned assets — without telling the owners of those assets — for months at a time, at least one branch of Mexican government apparently doesn't care. We don't know of any boat owners who have a problem with Mexico making sure boats aren't stolen and making sure every boat is legally in the country and has all the proper documentation — especially since it can be so easy and inexpensive in Mexico. It's just that AGACE couldn't have done it in a less competent, slower or more frightening way. May it all end soon.

    By the way, there has been a lot of misinformation on this whole matter. Consider, for example, the claims of the Elizabeth Shanahan, who owns a marine business is Nuevo Vallarta. Consider two of her 'facts':

    "Fact: Per the requirement of a TIP, the sticker portion must affixed to the vessel."

    What Shanahan fails to report — or maybe she simply doesn't know — is that many TIPs never came with stickers. People need to realize what happens to them is not something they can carelessly project as happening to everybody else. What happens in Shanahan's world, for instance, hasn't necessarily been happening in the world of other boat owners — as demonstrated by her next so-called 'fact':

    "Fact, the vessels in Nuevo Vallarta and Opequimar shipyard have not been impounded, they are on a 'precautionary embargo' and are free to come and go from the dock. They just must provide copies of their paperwork that was missing or incorrect, and will be released to freely travel Mexico."

    In addition to noting that Shanahan uses the future tense in saying boats "will be released" — when will that happen? — we also note that she specifies that boats will be able to "freely travel Mexico," but says nothing about them being able to leave the country. Errors of omission or intent? We're not sure.

    Despite what some people claim, Mexican maritime law is very complicated, which is why we asked Neil Shroyer of Marina de La Paz, who is as up on chapter and verse of Mexican maritime law as anyone we know, to weigh in on the concept of 'precautionary embargoes'. Neil writes:

    “Depositario is a person [or business or agency] who the provisionally impounded goods are entrusted to while the legal process goes through its stages. He can do with the goods as he sees fit, as long as they are not sold, destroyed, modified, or made unavailable to the legal process. So, in answer to the question, it depends on the circumstances [as to whether an embargoed boat can leave the dock]. If the vessel was officially 'deposited' with the owner of said vessel alter the 'embargo precautorio' (a possibility), then that owner can move around on the vessel as long as she / he can produce the vessel at any time that the AGACE authorities request it during the legal process. It's kind of like being out on bail. If the Owner/Depositario does not produce the vessel when required by the AGACE, then he could face fines and jail.

    "If the vessel was 'deposited' with the marina representative/manager/owner after the 'embargo precautorio', it would be entirely up to that person to allow the owner to move about. But if the owner took off with the vessel, the person that was named 'Depositario' would be responsible for the vessel not showing up or being available for trial, and could even face jail time. If no 'Depositario' is named by the AGACE, it means that the vessel is technically in AGACE´s possession and they are the 'Depositarios'. That is why AGACE is or was pressing the marinas [and later port captains — ed.] to accept the 'deposito', because if something happens to the vessel they would be responsible.

    "Half the marinas accepted the deposito of the vessels impounded, the other half did not. Some vessels that were in marinas that did not accept the deposito have left the country, and I do not know what AGACE can or would do about that. The law permits the return of the vessel (merchandise), so maybe if the owner proves it has left the country then possibly, in a positive scenario, they would pay the fine and that would be that. Worst case, maybe they would be charged with wrongful disposal or theft of impounded goods." So wrote Neil Shroyer.

    It's our understanding that Opequimar agreed to be a depositario for the embargoed boats in their marina only because AGACE threatened to shut them down the next day if they didn't. The marina our boat is in refused to be a depositario, so the situation in Shanahan's marina is entirely different from that in our marina — and many other marinas in Mexico. As AGACE has not named us personally as the depositario for our boat, Profligate, AGACE is Profligate's depositario by default. Since they have not only not given us permission to leave the slip — they haven't even contacted us, but they have put us on the 'no go' list with the Port Captain — we're not going anywhere. After all, we don't think it's worth risking an asset worth hundreds of thousands of dollars to go for a daysail when it's in the control of an agency that doesn't seem to care how badly it damages Mexico's marine tourism industry.

    As we think everyone can see, the less you know about the complexities of Mexican maritime law, the less you'll worry. And don't even get us going about the questions of whether US zarpes and captains licenses are needed to legally bring a boat to Mexico, and whether a $100 sanitary certificate is necessary for a boat to leave Mexico. In the old days — before the third week of November of last year — things were friendly in Mexico, and all the inevitable paperwork hiccups and legal contradictions could be worked out in a few minutes with a smile. But with the cold, harsh actions of AGACE, where the agency insists it has up to 24 weeks to decide whether your boat should be released, fined or confiscated, Mexico suddenly became a much less friendly place to foreigners with any kind of significant assets.

    We're hoping and praying, for the sake of all cruisers in Mexico and potential cruisers to Mexico, as well as all the nautical tourism businesses — and the owners of impounded boats — that Mexico puts an end to this self-destructive insanity immediately. And furthermore, that they give assurances that similar episodes won't happen again. Mexico has steadily been making life easier and more attractive for cruisers, so let's hope this is an aberration, not the start of a really horrible phase.

    By the way, as of January 1 Mexico instituted a new 16% IVA tax on all food and drink in Mexico, including that sold in grocery stores and restaurants, as well as on other things like pet food. Mexico has many millions of really poor — not US-style poor — people. Minimum wage is about $6/day. How the government expects them to suddenly cough up another 16% for the basics of survival is beyond us, especially when the property tax on a half million dollar condo on the water is a mere $150 a year. Why do staples for the poor have to be taxed? As for restaurants, some are collecting the new tax, others aren't, the latter saying the new rule hasn't been constitutionalized, it's not legal, their accountant told them not to pay it, etc, etc. Inconsistency ought to be the motto of Mexico.

    There are signs that the new Pena Nieto Administration is doing some good things, such as cleaning up the very corrupt teacher's union, opening Pemex to much-needed foreign investment, and cracking down on the many major tax abuses in a land where the amount of tax paid compared to GDP is ridiculously low. Hopefully AGACE's action is an anomalous brain fart on the way to a better Mexico, but we can only wait and see.

    - latitude / richard

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