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Thread: Boat choice

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    Santa Rosa
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    644

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    The Pearson Commander, designed by Carl Albert, has a very large cockpit and small(er) cabin (think Santana 22). The Pearson Ariel has a "standard" size cockpit with a full cabin. Both were built on the same hull with a very similar rig. Most Commanders use an outboard in a well. Some Ariels have an inboard (usually a gas Atomic 4), but many use the outboard/well set up. Both boats were SF Bay racers in their day, a step up from a Cal 20 or similar boat. Both are slow by today's standards.

    With the semi-full keel, large rudder hung on the aft end of the keel they share Carl Alberg's Triton's, and similar designs, weather helm if the sails are not balanced almost perfectly. They also share Alberg's "wet boat" syndrome when going to weather.

    Either would probably make a decent Hawaii direction boat, if you weren't in a hurry. Going downwind the full(ish) keel and large rudder would keep them going in one direction. The Ariel would have more comfortable living quarters with a standard-size cockpit; the Commander a huge, fillable cockpit and sitting headroom in the cabin.

    As would be the case with any boat nearly 50 years old, a complete survey and a good going over would be in order. For the hull: keelbolts, chainplates, tabbing, hull/deck joint, rudder fittings, windows, deck fittings, etc. Probably a wholesale replacement of wiring, although it's not very complicated. For the rig: probably new standing rigging, spreader concerns, gooseneck (orignally roller furling), spar condition, chainplates, etc. For sails: Unless it's an unusual older boat, a complete new suite of sails: main, several jibs, spinnaker(s). If it's an Ariel with an inboard, a complete check up.

    I crewed on both types in the 1970s. After that experience, when I purchased my first large(r) boat it had a fin keel and spade rudder. If I were looking at boats in that length range today, I'd certainly look at a Cal 2-27 harder than a Commander.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    114

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    The Pearson 35, while was a very nice boat, just wasn't right. My main issue, right now, is I need a boat I can sail on Lake Norman and I really want to start this season. I'd love to look at a Hobie 33 and I think it might be a good boat for the race (trailerable, retractable keel, and good LWL) I just can't seem to find one anywhere near me. I'm looking at a Pearson Flyer next Saturday that is on Lake Norman; it might not be the boat I use in the race but I'm hoping that over the next two season I can use it to sharpen my skills and sell to buy something like a Hobie 33 or Olson 30. I'm thinking it doesn't make sense to pay to have a Pearson Flyer hauled to San Francisco and I could sell it buy something 6 / 8 months before the race and fix what needs to be done.

    Thanks for everyone's input and guidance on this topic!

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    119

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    Don't underestimate how long it takes to prepare a boat for offshore racing. We bought our boat 22 months before the 2016 SHTP and feel that is barely enough time, and we've already prepared and raced a different boat to Hawaii recently.

    I would strongly recommend taking a few months to a year to find the boat that will be the boat you sail to Hawaii in 2018.
    Life is not a dress rehearsal.

    Bermuda 1-2 on a Schumacher 28

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
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    114

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    Thanks for the heads up. Has anyone ever published, blogged etc about all the prep they put into a boat to get it ready for the race? What is your opinion of the Pearson Flyer?

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
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    46

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    Barry Bristol (referred to above as the Capri 30 sailor) and I both think that a glass Thunderbird would be a great boat for the Transpac (with the later model rudder). It has good speed off the wind, is well built, is very affordable, and it has a really high rating. It has more head room than the Capri 25 or 30 we sailed. Just a thought.

    FYI: While Barry and his Capri 30 may not have placed well, I can assure you (we see each other often) that he does think the boat is up to another Transpac and is considering 2016. I cannot sail 2016 as I have other commitments, but I plan to sail in 2018. Neither Barry nor I had any structural concerns (Barry sailed both ways). My rig failure was due to an error on my part, not a fault of the boat design. Both Barry and I reenforced our boats structure prior to the race.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    235

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    Doug
    Please elaborate on the reinforcement mods that you and Barry made. My impression as to Barry's not pushing the Capri 30 could certainly have been for other reasons than concern over it's structural integrity. I have a boat that has been well proven in the race, but I certainly didn't push it in it's first race in '84. I suspect that most of us will agree that it takes takes a while to really learn your boat, especially if it you have not taken it offshore competitively. (Just my 2 cents).

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Capitola,CA
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    3,344

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    Quote Originally Posted by svShearwater View Post
    Don't underestimate how long it takes to prepare a boat for offshore racing. We bought our boat 22 months before the 2016 SHTP and feel that is barely enough time, and we've already prepared and raced a different boat to Hawaii recently.
    +1

    One is not only preparing a boat for SHTP, but leaving behind a homelife for a significant length of time.

    I also second the idea of a Thunderbird as an "sleeper" SHTP competitor. Having sailed many miles in company with Thunderbirds, will confirm they are as fast, or faster, on most points of sail as boats that rate half-a-minute/mile faster.

    Horses for Courses. To my eye, a design that accomplishes about everything asked (seaworthy, family cruising, competitive racer, surfs downwind, low cost) is a Cal 27 or Cal 29.

    You could win the SHTP with a Cal. Newbies forget that displacement hulls have an advantage in the SHTP for many reasons, the top three being:

    1) a heavier boat can be sailed closer to its theoretical potential speed longer and easier than an ultralight.

    2) you can sail dead downwind, or even by the lee, at max speed while the faster boats are sailing hotter, lifted angles, and more miles, often in the direction of lighter winds.

    3) the sloped leading edge of a Cal keel (38 degrees) sheds plastic, while more modern keels drag around Pacific Gyre detritus for hours or days, at significant speed loss.

    My 2 cents.
    Last edited by sleddog; 05-10-2015 at 09:54 AM.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Santa Barbara Sometimes
    Posts
    167

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    “Has anyone ever published, blogged etc about all the prep they put into a boat to get it ready for the race?” SeanRhone

    Here’s a partial list of prep performed on Frolic, a 1974 Islander 36 (which I think has the displacement boat advantages listed by sleddog, plus, imho, as a footnote to item 3, a skeg-hung rudder which is very strong and has never needed flossing):

    2012 prep
    • Survey, PHRF Rating, Qualifier...
    • Inner forestay & trysail track… design & buy storm jib & trysail
    • Design and build emergency rudder, set up wind vane
    • New bridgedeck
    • Larger, repositioned cockpit drains
    • Inspect rudder post
    • Chainplates & gooseneck – pull & inspect, replaced cracked backstay chainplate…
    • Standing rigging – inspect, replace tangs, compression bolts, an backstay (others new in 2008)…
    • Running rigging – inspect, replace…
    • whisker pole, reaching strut and spinnaker net
    • Sails – repair, ‘new’…
    • Wheel to tiller conversion....tiller autopilot, compass, engine controls
    • Liferaft, AIS Radio
    • Reglass bulkhead tabs, sister floors, refasten cabin sole
    • New engine mounts & cables
    • Sextant, nautical almanac and plotting sheets
    • Complete offshore medical kit
    • Tethered tie-down hatchboard system, latching access boards
    • Routine: bottom paint, pack maxprop, non-skid decks, batteries, engine, EPIRB batteries….
    • Emptied boat of non-essentials (I tried)

    2014 prep
    • Replace tiller pilot with below-deck drive
    • Self-tailing primaries and cabin top winches
    • Remove and reseal toerails (ouch!)
    • SSB line isolation, lightning protection & SWR meter
    • Protected computer & remote display from spray: Chart table screen, Companion way cover
    • New, bigger solar panels
    • 2nd spinnaker pole, rigged outgrabber
    • More spinnakers
    • Inspected and tuned rig
    • Running rigging replacement
    • More bulkhead-hull glassing (had to tear apart head for this one)
    • Routine: bottom paint, pack maxprop, non-skid decks, batteries, engine
    • Continued weight reduction
    Last edited by hodgmo; 05-10-2015 at 12:47 PM. Reason: left off item

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Santa Rosa
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    644

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    I agree a plastic Thunderbird might be a good choice. Unfortunately, the one I used to sail on has become part of a former sailing friend's chicken coop in Sebastopol. I would carefully check the tabbing on bulkheads.

    Another interesting boat might be a Marieholm Folkboat. 26 feet X 7 feet. Full, cutaway keel, with keel hung rudder. Displacement 5,000#/ballast 2750#. Trailerable with a larger SUV/pickup and road legal. Usually available for $10,000 or less. Solidly built. Slower, but steady. The one I sailed on would sail hands off with the sails balanced for as long as the skipper wanted. Snug cabin, workable cockpit. Of course, like all older boats, a thorough survey and probably a list of fixes.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    114

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    I'd be interested in knowing about the reinforcements as well.

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