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Thread: Emergency Rudders Show-and-Tell

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
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    Austin, TX
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    119

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobJ View Post
    I don't think so, but we did deploy the kraken and recover it.

    For those who weren't there, "the kraken" is my name for a Burke drogue, a well-regarded Australian brand. It came in a nice blue* bag printed with various illustrations, such as using it with a bridle for emergency steering. It worked fine as a drogue but was ineffective as a steering device. The tails of the bridle were led to the primary winches which are well forward on my boat, but this did not provide enough angle to move the stern as each bridle tail was tensioned. This made me realize that unless you have a really wide boat (like a multihull), towing buckets, etc. on either side to steer probably won't work. At a minimum you'd need them on outriggers of some kind.

    * This was not the only reason I bought it.
    An improvement that will help drogue steering (note, I'm not saying it will work well, but it will work better) is to lead the drogue bridle forward to the midpoint of the boat. This is typically the widest point and the center of rotation about the keel).

    We tested the drogue with Paul before Pac Cup and found one other really important fact. Drogue steering is far more effective the faster you go. Consider motoring even if it just to give a small speed boost when there is wind.

    Paul also said our drogue steering was no worse than some of the erudders he had tested. He gave the drogue a minimal passing mark for the inspection and then we installed and SOS rudder before the race start.

    The drogue was a Galerider and somewhere on the interweb there is a write up a 40ish footer that removed their rudder and said they could do donuts inside the marina with the drogue because it was so effective. Hard to know how that translates when you test the drogue (or any erudder) with the main rudder still in place. Our J/120 rudder is plenty big and powerful. Not easy to overcome.
    Life is not a dress rehearsal.

    Bermuda 1-2 on a Schumacher 28

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Arnold, CA
    Posts
    447

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    What a fun day!

    Lots of great designs and food for thought.

    Here are some shots of Max's setup.

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    All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it is vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they act their dream with open eyes, to make it possible.

    T.E. Lawrence

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Arnold, CA
    Posts
    447

    Default E-Rudder photos

    Here are some shots of Rick's cassette on Lightspeed

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    All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it is vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they act their dream with open eyes, to make it possible.

    T.E. Lawrence

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Arnold, CA
    Posts
    447

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    Ragtime! with e-rudder deployed.

    Iniscaw with e-rudder deployed.

    Ragtime! deploying the kraken.

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    All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it is vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they act their dream with open eyes, to make it possible.

    T.E. Lawrence

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,039

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    Quote Originally Posted by svShearwater View Post
    An improvement that will help drogue steering (note, I'm not saying it will work well, but it will work better) is to lead the drogue bridle forward to the midpoint of the boat. This is typically the widest point and the center of rotation about the keel). We tested the drogue with Paul before Pac Cup and found one other really important fact. Drogue steering is far more effective the faster you go. Consider motoring even if it just to give a small speed boost when there is wind. Paul also said our drogue steering was no worse than some of the erudders he had tested. He gave the drogue a minimal passing mark for the inspection and then we installed and SOS rudder before the race start.

    The drogue was a Galerider and somewhere on the interweb there is a write up a 40ish footer that removed their rudder and said they could do donuts inside the marina with the drogue because it was so effective. Hard to know how that translates when you test the drogue (or any erudder) with the main rudder still in place. Our J/120 rudder is plenty big and powerful. Not easy to overcome.
    Looking at Greg's last picture, the primaries are indeed well inboard. I'll have to test the kraken again with the tails led to the rails amidships. I have track there where I could put leads, and there's a knee underneath on each side so it can probably stand the load (which is considerable). Removing the rudder might help when using a drogue to steer, since you want the stern to pivot around the keel. This is fairly easy on my boat so I may give that a try as well.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    37

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    Quote Originally Posted by svShearwater View Post

    The drogue was a Galerider and somewhere on the interweb there is a write up a 40ish footer that removed their rudder and said they could do donuts inside the marina with the drogue because it was so effective.
    Yes, I read that as well. It was a Swan 44. Link here:
    http://bermudarace.com/wp-content/up...t-a-Rudder.pdf
    It made me get a galerider for my set up.

    I'm embarrassed to say I have yet to test it.
    I'm disappointed to say I am out of the LongPac this year for family reasons, so I used this weekend for SHF prep and maintenance instead.
    I'll need to try it soon, just not next Saturday, please.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Arnold, CA
    Posts
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    Just a thought,

    My boat has an outboard, which can maneuver the boat independent of the rudder.
    ( Would this count as e-rudder? Or dq for using power?)
    For testing purposes I don't think it would be difficult to remove the rudder, motor out, and test some theories.

    If we set up to do this again I will plan to have Nightmare ready.
    All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it is vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they act their dream with open eyes, to make it possible.

    T.E. Lawrence

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    114

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daydreamer View Post
    Just a thought,

    My boat has an outboard, which can maneuver the boat independent of the rudder.
    ( Would this count as e-rudder? Or dq for using power?)
    For testing purposes I don't think it would be difficult to remove the rudder, motor out, and test some theories.

    If we set up to do this again I will plan to have Nightmare ready.

    Did you ever get an answer for this? Never thought about it but you're right and it would work.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,039

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    At a PacCup seminar, a couple skippers who've lost rudders described the experience. Their fin-keeled boats swung uncontrollably through 90-140 degrees unless they were able to slow way down. So I don't think trying to steer the boat with your outboard will help much. If you're 1,000 nm from Hawaii when it happens, there's the fuel issue. The propeller won't stay submerged unless seas are flat. Finally, are you prepared to sit back at the transom and steer with the outboard for hours on end, even if it's calm and you have the fuel? (I realize the Hobie's outboard is mounted inside at the back of the cockpit, but most are hung on the transom.)

    Realistically you need a robust emergency rudder, a way to ditch the old rudder if it's jammed off-center and a way to attach a tiller pilot or sheet-to-tiller steering of some sort so you can get some rest.
    Last edited by BobJ; 02-13-2017 at 11:33 AM.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Humboldt Bay
    Posts
    132

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    a way to ditch the old rudder if it's jammed off-center
    This would be impossible on my boat.

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