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Thread: Drakes Bay

  1. #71
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    I did notice several boats on the YRA site had start penalties Sat & Sunday, one maybe enough to move down a notch.....Another oddity that may just be a typo, but YRA scored one boat in a division he was not listed to start. If he stays in that division which is not SHS may change the SSS scoring..

  2. #72
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    OK, now that the SSS results are posed I am really confused. One boat appears to have races and scored in two different divisions at the same time. He scores 5:55:06 in YRA with a 5 min start penalty but scores 5:35:23 in SSS in a different div with no start penalty Sat. Then he scores 6:34:53 in YRA on Sun with a 5 min start penalty but 7:24:55 in SSS in a different div no penalty. I wish him well but can you race in two different YRA/SSS race divisions at the same time with different flags and start times? I am way down the food chain on this but cannot make any sense of it…

  3. #73
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    YRA has his Saturday finish time right, at 16:20:57 (plus the five minute adjustment). SSS has it one hour early at 15:20:57. This needs to be corrected. I can't tell what happened on Sunday because the SSS fleet results (which show finish times) aren't posted, only the overall SH and DH. The corrected times between the two organizations are different because they use different TCF's - OYRA uses 650/550+PHRF, SSS uses 700/520+PHRF.

    After once again getting passed by this boat like I was tied to a stump and almost passed by its sistership, even while I was flying a code zero, I'll offer a comparison:

    WylieCat 30/J92:
    LOA 30.5/30.0
    LWL 25.0/25.8
    Beam 9.5/10
    Displ 5500/5500
    Ballast 3050/2275
    Upwind SA 530/552 (w/genoa)
    PHRF 129-132/105

    My boat's only advantage, downwind SA, is usually offset by the angles (extra distance) I have to sail, while a WC30 points straight at the leeward mark.

    J/92 RAGTIME! with code zero, taken from the WylieCat 30 NANCY (thanks to Pat for the photo)
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by BobJ; 08-30-2015 at 11:17 AM.

  4. #74
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    Thanks Bob that answers the PHRF math question and is quite a striking comparison between the two boats….. The part I am still scratching my head over is the same WC30 wins the YRA PHRO 3 div with a Hotel start at 10:15 and at the same time he wins the SSS Golf start at 10:10. So when did he start and can you race in two different div in the same race?

  5. #75
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    Dan started at 10:10 - that's why OYRA had to add 5 min. to his finish time. His correct division in their race started at 10:15.

    After reading Allen's e-mail to us via Jibeset, I'm guessing his head is buzzing with this stuff. Best to contact him at this point since I'm just a puzzled observer like you.

    It's not a criticism of our R/C and I hope it doesn't sound like one - but I really don't understand how scoring these races for SSS is any different from any other race. Ignore what OYRA is doing - except for the two sport boats that registered in the wrong SSS divisions and didn't get corrected, all of SSS's entry data was correct from the beginning. Just enter the finish times for the SSS entries as provided by OYRA and score the races. It's irrelevant that OYRA has some of the same boats entered in their race.

    I'm the guy who originally proposed to Andy Newell that we combine our efforts for these Drake's Bay races. I had no idea the scoring would present such a challenge - again I do not understand why it does.
    Last edited by BobJ; 08-30-2015 at 11:14 AM.

  6. #76
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    I agree the R/C is the best and it is a very fun race. I am glad it was added to the SSS season. I did not mean to open a can of worms, and now I can see the differences and challenges the R/C had combining two different race formats into one race....

  7. #77
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    Jan 2008
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    I think combining the SSS/OYRA Races is a fairly good idea. It brings out boats and it allows the SSS to have a Drakes Bay Race complete with committee boat and all. But it does present a few issues that need some working on, I feel. The major problem is how the SSS and OYRA determine their divisions. SSS has sportboats; OYRA doesn't, for instance. In addition, SSS has both Single and Double handed divisions; OYRA doesn't. OYRA uses DWL to divide its divisions;SSS uses PHRF + a sportboat formula.

    Here's an example. Phil in his Express 27 "WETSU" is apparantly sailing for the SSS Singlehanded Championship. I'm not; I just sail single or double depending on which race and which crew I'm on speaking terms with the week before a race. Since an Express 27 is an sportboat according to the SSS, In the recent Drakes Bay Race Phil started 5 minutes before my PHRF Division and was sailing singlehanded vs my doublehanded entry. And, he sailed well. After we saw him leave the Start Line we lost track of him until he called in his impending finish at Drakes Bay. After the 5-minute adjustment for different starting times, he beat me by 55 seconds. I'll never know if I could have earned back those 55 seconds if we'd been sailing alongside each other. Did he stay in? Did he stay out? Could I have covered him on the way from the CYC to Pt. Bonita? Maybe I could have? Maybe not? But 55 seconds after 31 nm is pretty close. I applaud him for his effort, since he was alone and sailed well. It isn't Phil I'm after, it's a better chance to race boat-for-boat with a boat that rates exactly the same as mine.

    On the way back, the Express 27s started ahead again. About halfway down we saw one inside about equal with us. We couldn't see which one (I think there were 3), but we were committed to staying out. It wasn't until we closed with the E27 near Pt. Bonita that we saw it wasn't "WETSU" after all. But where was he? We didn't know the E27 we were now saiing next to, so didn't know if it was being sailed well - but it was after all right next to us so it had done pretty good. It wasn't until the next day we learned Phil had DNFed. There was a certain amount of angst for the last hour, let me tell you.

    What does this matter? Nothing as far as I'm concerned with my sailing in the SSS. I'm not chasing a season championship, but I do like to win in my SSS division, which "WETSU" is not a part of. In the OYRA, however, I'm in 1st Place in the SHS Division and "WETSU's" in 2nd Place, separated by a few points. It is important for me to beat Phil in the final 2 OYRA races.

    With the combined HMB race coming up, I face the same dilemma on what is traditionally a mostly downwind race, a Wyliecat's weak point of sail (yes, Bob) and an E27s strong one. "WETSU" will start 5 minutes ahead and I"ll have the same problem of not being able to cover Phil while we're on-the-wind headed out the Gate, which is a Wyliecat's strong point of sail vs a sportboat. That point after 31 miles at Drakes Bay may well come back to haunt me.

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