Lithium batteries

[Jerome]

Does anyone have any experience, links, where to buy, how to regarding lithium batteries.
I'm tired of Agm. from what I read, this investment will pay off and lithium are cheaper in the long run.
Like 2012, I will be using solar and fuel cell during the race. The combo worked great.

[pogen]

Longtime SSS vet Greg is your man for marine batteries...

http://www.racecell.com/

[Jerome]

Longtime SSS vet Greg is your man for marine batteries...

http://www.racecell.com/

Thanks! Will definitely look into it.

Jerome

[JAMcDonald]

Jerome, I'm building & testing a DIY LiFePO4 bank. Here's a couple of sites you may find helpful:

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/lifepo4_on_boats Very comprehensive and worth reading before going down this path.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1456703 Hundreds of posts, some very helpful.

The "turn key" systems are very expensive, the diy time consuming. As an alternative, Liam Dao at LTD Marine Electronics (Alameda Marina) is carrying the new Firefly Carbon Foam batteries which offer some LiFePO4 advantages such as rapid charging (less internal resistance) and partial discharge without sulfation. They are, however, just as heavy as AGM or other lead acid technology.

If you get interested in a diy system let me know and I’ll share my systems schematics. It is neither cheap nor simple. Also be aware that many charging protocols baked into commercial products, even those marketed for LiFePO4, are not congruent with the actual requirements.

[brianb]

Jerome, I'm building & testing a DIY LiFePO4 bank. Here's a couple of sites you may find helpful:

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/lifepo4_on_boats Very comprehensive and worth reading before going down this path.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1456703 Hundreds of posts, some very helpful.

The "turn key" systems are very expensive, the diy time consuming. As an alternative, Liam Dao at LTD Marine Electronics (Alameda Marina) is carrying the new Firefly Carbon Foam batteries which offer some LiFePO4 advantages such as rapid charging (less internal resistance) and partial discharge without sulfation. They are, however, just as heavy as AGM or other lead acid technology.

If you get interested in a diy system let me know and I’ll share my systems schematics. It is neither cheap nor simple. Also be aware that many charging protocols baked into commercial products, even those marketed for LiFePO4, are not congruent with the actual requirements.

Are these really safe ? I know of three cases where these batteries caught fire (a well known issue with LiIon, supposedly not so bad with LiFe) after discharging too far, in spite of limiting circuitry. I wonder if using LiIon on a single handed boat is at all advisable ?

[pogen]

I ran my LiFe bank to zero, and nothing bad happened. Other than it was difficult to recharge. They were set up with all sorts of fuses and protection circuits.

For added protection one could add crotch straps.

[BobJ]

I had to add a dedicated starting battery for PacCup. I installed a 26Ah AGM normally sold for PWC's. It's small/light, plays well with the two larger AGM's in my house bank and has enough CCA's to start the little Yanmar. The solar charge controller sends 10% of the charge to it and 90% to the house bank. Works great, it's simple and most important, I understand it. Oh, and it was relatively cheap.

[pogen]

I've got a lead-acid starting battery and a LiFePo4 house bank coupled via a MagnumEnergy smart combiner, the idea being that if the house bank goes low the starter battery is cut out of the circuit and protected.

Two issues -- the switch FET in the Magnum blew up at one point, and the starter battery was not getting charged, which was hard to debug, and meant the replacement of the Magnum.

The other thing that happened was that through operator error, I let the house bank drain completely, and then when I tried to charge it from the shore power (or switch in the starter battery) the inrush of current to the empty battery kept blowing the terminal fuses on the battery -- I had in the end to get a linear supply from work and very gently charge the battery up to the point where conventional means could be used. For emergencies I am making up some dummy shorts that will take the place of the fuses on the batteries.

The solar panel charge controller is setup to feed the higher-voltage Li housebank, that then spills over to keep the starter charged.

I also built a test load, essentially a 1 ohm resistor on a fan cooled heatsink that draws about 13 A when put in parallel with the house panel. This is useful for testing the capacity and discharge curve of your bank, as otherwise it is very tedious to watch the battery discharge even when all the radios and lights are on. The fan is needed because the otherwise the resistors and heatsink get way too hot to touch.

[Ragnar]

Lithium Starting Batteries
With portable lithium batteries available such as this: http://www.cyntur.com/Store/Product-...ionjumpstarter , not really sure why a separate wired-in starting battery is necessary anymore. Just put a monitor on the House bank & have the portable charged up for the rare just in case moments. Hell, carry 2 or 3. Simpler. Anyone see a problem with this approach?

Lithium House Bank
Lithium battery pricing is falling due to adoption in automotive as supply chains get streamlined. RVers are starting to use lithium batteries. One source here: http://www.amsolar.com/home/amr/smar...batteries.html

[brianb]

Zimaz, Those batteries are excellent for the emergency re start, and since they are LiPo they lose charge very slowly. Plus, being isolated, you are not going to inadvertently discharge or overcharge.

Boeing's view on the topic of Li batt's :
Boeing's recent guidance to passenger airlines advising that they not carry lithium-ion batteries in their cargo holds stems from the recommendations an industry-wide group has presented to the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO). It recognizes that fire suppression systems as currently certified cannot stop a fire involving bulk quantities of the batteries, said Boeing’s technical safety chief for fire protection.

Also, they had a 787 land with smoldering LiIon batts that were designed into the plane (as I recall).

I was considering a set for my boat, but there is no putting them out if the start to burn.