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Thread: Autopilot Angst

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobJ View Post
    1) On the EV-200 (and I assume the EV-100), the dockside calibration includes a step which requires moving the drive to one stop (hard over) and then to the other stop. With the Pelagic drive you can only do this with it engaged, using the controller's buttons (you can't force it by hand). But you can't use those buttons while you're calibrating so it's a catch 22 with the Pelagic drive. I have to calibrate the pilot with the Ray drive and then change to the Pelagic. That's do-able if you have both drives.

    2) Because the EV's are dumbed-down, you have to lie to the computer to get the drive to respond fast enough. The Ray drive and Pelagic drive are both 5-7 seconds lock-to-lock. If you calibrate the ACU for that speed it's way too slow - you have to tell it the hardover time is 11-12 seconds so it thinks it has to respond faster. The Pelagic drive is still too slow to respond - the response of the Ray drive (when the ACU is lied to) is closer to normal.
    Agree this is bizarre, and it is what I have found, as well. In order to have the AP respond faster, the hardover time is set longer on the programming. Less intuitive that whatever preceded it, some type of boat response or gain setting, if I recall correctly.

    The piece I still do not understand is, since the drive is "agnostic", why do they respond differently to the current from the controller?

    Assuming what you say is true, "The Pelagic drive is still too slow to respond", does this make the Pelagic drive less attractive as a backup for the Ray drive, at least for anyone who has the EV-200 controller?

    Thanks,
    Todd

  2. #12
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    I wouldn't say that yet. I need to do more extensive on-the-water testing, hopefully with Brian aboard. He's only seen his drive work with the X-5 - my EV-200 is new.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by todd22123 View Post
    Agree this is bizarre, and it is what I have found, as well. In order to have the AP respond faster, the hardover time is set longer on the programming. Less intuitive that whatever preceded it, some type of boat response or gain setting, if I recall correctly.

    The piece I still do not understand is, since the drive is "agnostic", why do they respond differently to the current from the controller?

    Assuming what you say is true, "The Pelagic drive is still too slow to respond", does this make the Pelagic drive less attractive as a backup for the Ray drive, at least for anyone who has the EV-200 controller?

    Thanks,
    Todd
    The drives are geared differently. It takes more current to move the Pelagic than the Ray.....so a "burst" of current/voltage (its a pulse width modulated system) will not translate to the same movement/stroke even if the hard over time is the same at full voltage.
    In the case of switching between the pelagic and the ray, you would have to have set the hard over time for each so that the same response would be achieved from both drives. Experiment by switching between the drives and playing with the hard over time. Then write down the different hard over times for each drive and change the hard over time when you change the drive.
    Last edited by WBChristie; 10-15-2015 at 12:26 PM.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobJ View Post
    1) On the EV-200 (and I assume the EV-100), the dockside calibration includes a step which requires moving the drive to one stop (hard over) and then to the other stop. With the Pelagic drive you can only do this with it engaged, using the controller's buttons (you can't force it by hand). But you can't use those buttons while you're calibrating so it's a catch 22 with the Pelagic drive. I have to calibrate the pilot with the Ray drive and then change to the Pelagic. That's do-able if you have both drives.

    2) Because the EV's are dumbed-down, you have to lie to the computer to get the drive to respond fast enough. The Ray drive and Pelagic drive are both 5-7 seconds lock-to-lock. If you calibrate the ACU for that speed it's way too slow - you have to tell it the hardover time is 11-12 seconds so it thinks it has to respond faster. The Pelagic drive is still too slow to respond - the response of the Ray drive (when the ACU is lied to) is closer to normal.

    3) Not a drive problem but to deceive the ACU in (2) above you can't have a rudder reference. If it sees a rudder reference it won't let you set the hard-over time.

    Hey, you asked . . .
    ___________________

    Ragnar, glad to see your post. I've been trying to click the "Read More" button on your blog but it doesn't work. I know there's more to the story - very sorry.
    So, Bob you have a feedback sensor on the ray drive but not the pelagic? Does the pilot work better with the feedback sensor for you?

  5. #15
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    I had a rotary rudder sensor installed with the X-5 but had to disconnect it to trick the hardover time in the EV-200's ACU. If I change to a belowdecks drive I'll try to use it again. Yes, the X-5 seemed to work better with it.

    The best setup I ever had on this boat was the old S1G with rotary reference installed. I did the 2006 SHTP race with it, slept with the kite up, etc.- no problems. It's been all downhill from there (going downhill from there?)

  6. #16
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    Have you tried the ACU-200 with the feedback sensor? I understand that the hard over time cannot be changed with the sensor wired up to the ACU-200 - but I'm curious how the ACU-200 performs with the feedback sensor wired in.
    Last edited by WBChristie; 10-15-2015 at 01:36 PM.

  7. #17
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    I never got that far since I had to disconnect the sensor to get the drives working properly. As you read on the Raymarine Tech Forum (and thanks for your input over there), this has been on ongoing saga.

    Thanks for the insight on the gearing differences between the two drives - it confirmed my suspicions. Now I know what sequence I need to go through to make it all work. If the Ray drive wants the hardover time to be set to 11 seconds, what would you guess it should be for the Pelagic - 16-18 seconds?

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobJ View Post
    I never got that far since I had to disconnect the sensor to get the drives working properly. As you read on the Raymarine Tech Forum (and thanks for your input over there), this has been on ongoing saga.

    Thanks for the insight on the gearing differences between the two drives - it confirmed my suspicions. Now I know what sequence I need to go through to make it all work. If the Ray drive wants the hardover time to be set to 11 seconds, what would you guess it should be for the Pelagic - 16-18 seconds?
    That seems like a good number to try....but one of the reasons I'm curious about the feedback sensor being connected, is that the response might be different with the sensor in the system. the x5 sensor should wire up to the acu-200. My biggest frustration with the evo pilot on my Hawaii trip was that it would give the drive a small correction, but in effect the drive would not move because the "bump" was not big enough to translate into actual rudder movement. All the while, the ACU would assume that the drive had moved, eventually causing a pilot fault due to max rudder applied - but in actual fact the rudder hadn't moved. VERY frustrating. My assumption is that the feedback sensor should fix this - but making assumptions with this drive is dangerous. The Ray people dont seem to understand what I'm telling them when I try to explain this. Maybe I need to articulate it better.

  9. #19
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    The rudder reference clearly worked with the ACU-200 but I'll have to keep disconnecting it when switching drives (to change the hardover time), which might be more trouble than it's worth. But I would install one on your boat - it does help.

    Just for comic relief - The other wrinkle is that I'm currently set up to switch between the X-5 and EV-200 "on the fly." I had the same setup with the X-5 and ST4000+ where I could put one on standby and engage the other. Two fluxgates but the rudder reference and drive were connected to both ACU's. It looks like I may need to rethink this.

    (Tom, sorry to throw your thread into a cocked hat.)
    Last edited by BobJ; 10-15-2015 at 02:30 PM.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobJ View Post
    The rudder reference clearly worked with the ACU-200 but I'll have to keep disconnecting it when switching drives (to change the hardover time), which might be more trouble than it's worth. But I would install one on your boat - it does help.

    Just for comic relief - The other wrinkle is that I'm currently set up to switch between the X-5 and EV-200 "on the fly." I had the same setup with the X-5 and ST4000+ where I could put one on standby and engage the other. Two fluxgates but the rudder reference and drive were connected to both ACU's. It looks like I may need to rethink this.

    (Tom, sorry to throw your thread into a cocked hat.)

    Bob - no problem. The more info the merrier. It does confirm my instinct to stay the hell away from the Raymarine AP (with apologies to all the RM devotees out there), or more generally from mixing AP components.

    Tom

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