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Thread: Does the Delorme InReach Explorer satisfy the Comm reqs for Transpac?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by bizirka View Post
    Perhaps this isn't necessary - but, to be clear I started this thread to find the most affordable way (trying to avoid satphone/SSB) to stay within the rules NOT get around them.

    I was hoping that the standard 'transat mini issued' SSB receiver (by the way is there anything better than the 10+ year old Sony ICF-SW7600GR) would satisfy the weather receiving portion of the rule and the delorme would satisfy the the position reporting and act as a backup for receiving weather.

    Perhaps I am not following correctly, but I gather that the delorme weather provides a 'single grib' at a specific location (either current or a selected lat/lon).

    I appreciate peoples expertise here!
    Jiri - FWIW I think that either or both satisfy the requirement...
    I believe the Delorme simply draws a square grib snapshot around it's present location.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by pogen View Post
    I also don't at all understand how we are "discouraging.. sponsors" with a fee. The whole point of sponsors is they contribute financially, or in kind, or else they are not sponsors.
    By charging double entry fee to sponsored entrants. In both SHTP's I did, I was forced to pay significantly more money to enter the race than "non-sponsored", i.e. "Corinthian" entries. Sponsorship was defined as running a sponsor's logo on your boat. The rule was supposedly created to deter the "big French pro guys" from taking over our race. All it did in my case was create a financial burden for a young kid with no money who already needed industry help to do the race in the first place. Sort of like having a working sat phone on my Moore yet no weather data, it seemed sort of silly and counter-productive.

    If the race got rid of any financial penalty to run a sponsor's logo, then that would probably increase the likelihood of local marine businesses offering discounts to SHTP racers or doing "soft sponsorship" with decals and representation in exchange for donated materials, discounts or financial support. I can only imagine abandoning any restrictions on "sponsored" entries would save several participants a grip of money and likely engage the race with the local marine industry. sounds like a win-win to me.

    again, just my 2 cents, sorry to get so far off topic.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobJ View Post
    there's a big difference between the skipper receiving weather information (he then has to interpret) and the skipper receiving routing advice: "When you reach <lat> <lon> turn 10 degrees to port."

    If the DeLorme gadget will be required and it supplies NOAA data in some other form, it seems that receiving that data should be okay since everyone is receiving the same thing - just add it to the list of acceptable data.

    No doubt Bob, I agree with you 100%. However, in the eyes of the rules as they are written, there is no difference in receiving this info vs. receiving the routing, unless it's coming from some type of paid service. (Sail Mail, the Delorme grib thing, downloading gribs with expensive data, etc) Currently, that is "outside assistance".

    Later in your quote, you mention "adding it to the list of acceptable data".

    So, could the rules not be amended to allow a friend to basically read gribs to you and relay to an SHTP competitor via text on their Delorme? This creates a grey area, but it's already a sport on the honor code... If someone really wants to cheat in a boat race, well, Donald Crowhurst.

    Would it be allowable for a friend to tell a competitor, "the high is forming, 1030 mb, centered at xxxN xxxW, trades looking 15-20 knots between 1018 and 1022 mb" or something like that? Essentially reading a grib to a friend FOR FREE, and being on the honor code to not tell them how to sail?

    How do we strike the right compromise of making the weather as EASY AS POSSIBLE to get into the hands of ALL participants, even those on basic boats like the guy who started the thread and only has an SSB receiver and a Delorme? Coincidentally, this was my same set up on way from CA to New Zealand last year and will be my set up from SF to Hawaii next week. In this modern day and age, being able to receive weather data over simple SMS text changes the game entirely. This is all I am really arguing is to update, or at least clarify, the rules to allow modern tech to be used to bring everyone back on the same playing field. When I cruise or do deliveries and am not confined to rules, the easiest, most practical way for me - by far - to get data is just to take my Delorme or sat phone and communicate with someone on land. Perhaps we change the rules to allow this, just no explicit routing?

    Is the goal to be self sufficient in this race and stick to tradition, or is the goal to use the resources that are reasonably available to the most participants in hopes that everyone gets there safe?
    Last edited by ronnie simpson; 11-23-2015 at 06:10 PM.

  4. #24
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    pogen is offline Sailing canoe "Kūʻaupaʻa"
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    Hi Ronnie,

    Per the RRCs (http://sfbaysss.org/resource/shtp201...nal_111315.pdf), the additional fee for sponsored entries is $400. I guess the presumption is that a sponsored entry would receive a lot more than that from one or more sponsors. An entrant would only have to pay this fee once, I think, no mater how many sponsors or stickers one might wish to put on the boat, so that if you had 10 sponsors at $200 each you would still be well ahead.

    It's true that this is mostly a historical artifact. I don't think PacCup charges more for sponsored entries. They seem to have at least two entered for 2016 so far. In our race the sponsored entries are few and far between.

    When I did PacCup I proposed to my boss, the president of the company I was working for, that if the company bought me a new spinnaker I would put the company logo on it. He laughed.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronnie simpson View Post
    Is the goal to be self sufficient in this race and stick to tradition, or is the goal to use the resources that are reasonably available to the most participants in hopes that everyone gets there safe?
    I think your questions are rhetorical, especially the last one.

  6. #26
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    [QUOTE=bizirka;12893]Perhaps this isn't necessary - but, to be clear I started this thread to find the most affordable way (trying to avoid satphone/SSB) to stay within the rules NOT get around them.

    I was hoping that the standard 'transat mini issued' SSB receiver (by the way is there anything better than the 10+ year old Sony ICF-SW7600GR) would satisfy the weather receiving portion of the rule and the delorme would satisfy the the position reporting and act as a backup for receiving weather.

    Perhaps I am not following correctly, but I gather that the delorme weather provides a 'single grib' at a specific location (either current or a selected lat/lon).

    I appreciate peoples expertise here![/QUOTE

    That is about right however OCENS provides a 24, 48 or 72 hr location based forecast. You pay a couple bucks more for the extended forecasts. Send OCENS a query from the Inreach and you get a response within a few minutes. It was pretty cool. Pretty accurate too, that 30Kts came in right on schedule.

    The "Delorme weather" in this context is simply a compact e-mailed forecast from OCENS.

    BTW, Inreach is equipped with wireless (explorer is anyway) and an app which can be loaded on the tablet/phone (droid or i). Then you can tap out messages on the tablet and avoid the utterly useless data entry screen on the inreach.
    Last edited by mike cunningham; 11-23-2015 at 10:48 PM.

  7. #27
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    One way to even the playing field, from a weather and routing standpoint, would be to allow your homie to give you some advice over the (sat) phone, or via a text message to your Delorme FOR FREE. Technically, this would make outside assistance the very CHEAPEST way of receiving weather data. I can recall two Singlehanded Transpacs where I had little or no weather data at times, but had a functioning sat phone and had to resist every temptation to "cheat" and ask my friend for advice. I can't imagine everyone resists that urge, all the time, every time. When I was on the Moore 24, I was literally hand-steering blind with no weather data - probably not very safe - but had a working sat phone. That is stupid.
    Horrible idea.

    Commanders Weather will route you brilliantly to Hawaii for a couple of hundred bucks, and will package daily data and routing advice, based on your polars.
    Talk about an arms race...... how many boats actually have polars for this race? 1 out of 10? How many have accurate polar and Expedition and know how to use it?

    Combine that expense with a sat phone or a Delorme and professional shore-based routers are now cheaper (and arguably infinitely better) than any old school solution such as an SSB.
    This is a singlehanded race that you do singlehanded, by yourself, without any outside assistance. Now we need to hire shoreside routers? Talk about an arms race.

    Let's stop kidding ourselves that we're avoiding an arms race within the SHTP by disallowing outside support and discouraging (through monetary fee) outside sponsorship, local industry support, etc.
    I don't think we are kidding ourselves and the formula has worked for decades.
    Last edited by solosailor; 11-24-2015 at 09:04 AM.

  8. #28
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    By charging double entry fee to sponsored entrants. In both SHTP's I did, I was forced to pay significantly more money to enter the race than "non-sponsored", i.e. "Corinthian" entries.
    "Forced", nice. No one forced you to get sponsorship.

    All it did in my case was create a financial burden for a young kid with no money who already needed industry help to do the race in the first place.
    Create a financial burden? Really? Nearly everyone who has ever done this race did it on their own dime and for most it was a great financial burden..... you know, they went to work and earned it, spent it. I think your going to rub a lot of people the wrong way who worked and saved to do the race. Only a handful of people have ever used sponsorship and all this talk is really a non-issue.

    "Needed industry help to do the race"? Sorry, no you didn't.
    Last edited by solosailor; 11-24-2015 at 09:39 AM.

  9. #29
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    Would it be allowable for a friend to tell a competitor, "the high is forming, 1030 mb, centered at xxxN xxxW, trades looking 15-20 knots between 1018 and 1022 mb" or something like that? Essentially reading a grib to a friend FOR FREE, and being on the honor code to not tell them how to sail?
    Really, this is the vision you have for the SHTP? Call your shoreside router for the rundown? The minis don't have sophisticated weather maps, routing, etc. and is considered the pinnacle of "pure" singlehanded sailing. I'm not aware of any major offshore race that allows outside routing?
    Last edited by solosailor; 11-24-2015 at 11:37 AM.

  10. #30
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    If anyone is considering purchasing a Delorme Inreach, now is good time.

    Delorme is offering a rebate, Defender had good pricing, and Active Captain has a coupon code for an additional discount.
    I ordered the Explorer.

    http://www.defender.com/activecaptain.jsp

    I am not affiliated with either company.

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