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Thread: Safety at Sea Seminar

  1. #31
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    I've thought about that David. We were all newbies once, and I'm only one dumb mistake away from feeling like one every time I go out.

    Education has always been a cornerstone of SSS's purpose and program, and much of its training is specific to shorthanding. Most of it takes place in the SHTP seminars but it used to happen at skippers and awards meetings too. If we outsource this to SAS, we force newbies to take courses that are only partially relevant. But most important, SSS gradually loses its ability to do its own training.

    It's the same issue with the equipment requirements. We used to have a body of members who wrestled through the requirements periodically, keeping them relevant and up-to-date and questioning the need for each item. It kept us sharp and informed - it was another cornerstone of the SSS. If we outsource our requirements to US Sailing, we've lost that cornerstone. Before long we're just another club that runs races.

    SSS was respected and provided leadership to the entire racing community. I'd hate to see us lose that position by giving in and following the herd. What they're doing is NOT better, it's just easier.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobJ View Post
    I've thought about that David. We were all newbies once, and I'm only one dumb mistake away from feeling like one every time I go out.



    SSS was respected and provided leadership to the entire racing community. I'd hate to see us lose that position by giving in and following the herd. What they're doing is NOT better, it's just easier.
    "Was respected " ?

  3. #33
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    I haven't heard anything positive (or negative) in the last 3-4 years, have you?

    I am interested in hearing whether anyone agrees with me or even gives a crap. If not, we'll let US Sailing dictate what equipment we carry and SAS can be our skipper training. I'll stop caring about where SSS is headed and folks won't have to read my posts about this stuff.

  4. #34
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    I tossed the question out there because I am not sure what you mean. Why not outline what equipment changes you would like to see ? I think that is your #1 concern ? Or SAS requirements ? How should that change ? I have suggested something, no apparent takers. THere have been extensive reviews of requirements for the offshore races by SSS. The consensus opinion is adopted in what has emerged as the rules. A variety of differing view points emerged in several cases, but the majority opinion was used to arrive at a decision. EX: I question the need for DSC handhelds when we all carry EPIRBs. As far as following the USSailing outline of rules, which is similar to ISAF, I find it makes it easier to sail in both OYRA and SSS as the lists are super easy to correlate.

  5. #35
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    Equipment changes: I'd like us to go back to our own, shorthanded-specific requirements as we had before NorCalORC. USSER can require what it wants for crewed racing (it IS better than the ISAF OSR's for crewed racing), but we engage our own members in the process and continue to learn by maintaining our own rules.

    SAS requirements: Any of us can always attend an SAS class. I'm hoping to go again this year not because I have to, but so I can see if the class is more relevant than the Pacific Cup group hug which was the SAS seminar I last attended in 2010. Again, instead of requiring someone else's generic class, we get back to educating our members in shorthanded-specific safety requirements and techniques. It makes our club stronger.

    Otherwise we're just running races and not providing leadership to the sailing community.

  6. #36
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  7. #37
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    Hey guys, I was just asking where I could find some classes. I certainly didn’t mean to come in here after being AWAL for close to a decade and stir up anything.

    I have never been one to complain about the rules of a game we play for fun. I have always just tried to comply. Not saying that’s the right way to be but that’s who I am. God bless those of you who are passionate enough to fight it out. That said, I have never been a fan of more rules and requirements but it seems like there always is and always will be more. I was really unhappy when after racing to Kauai in 2000 with only a VHF I had to install an SSB for the next race. Silly to my mind. Still is. But what are you going to do?

    From an outsiders’ point of view, because that’s who I am now. The SSS is still my first choice for information and training. You have seen me at every 2016 SHTP seminar so far. And I aint even doing the race! They are just as good as they were when I started attending them in the mid 90’s and as then, I thank all those who are making them possible.

    So now we can still attend the great SSS “classes” and we have to take another “parent” class also. I’m really ok with it I’m sure I can learn something there too. It would just be nice if it was easier to do. The online thing sounds good. I probably wont be ready for the Farallones anyway.

    But…
    Brian, you have suggested two things. To consider the reading BAMA’s required reading list as equivalent. I found those here :

    http://www.sfbama.org/2015/DHF/nr.pdf

    with links on page four. I will certainly reread these and if that works to get me in the Farallones entry list that’s great.

    Then as I said I probably wont be ready by then anyway so you suggested the ZYC race. This sounds like fun. I hope I would not be the only one there though.

    Then I guess there’s the chance the online course could be ready soon…

    Anyway I’m really looking forward to sailing on Sail a Vie in the Ocean again.

  8. #38
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    You won't be alone in the ZYC race. It is the fastest growing race in the Bay area: 2014 had 3 entries, 2015 had 8, if this growth rate keeps up we will surpass the 3BF in less than 10 years. Keep in mind it doesn't really exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil MacFarlane View Post
    Hey guys, I was just asking where I could find some classes. I certainly didn’t mean to come in here after being AWAL for close to a decade and stir up anything.

    I have never been one to complain about the rules of a game we play for fun. I have always just tried to comply. Not saying that’s the right way to be but that’s who I am. God bless those of you who are passionate enough to fight it out. That said, I have never been a fan of more rules and requirements but it seems like there always is and always will be more. I was really unhappy when after racing to Kauai in 2000 with only a VHF I had to install an SSB for the next race. Silly to my mind. Still is. But what are you going to do?

    From an outsiders’ point of view, because that’s who I am now. The SSS is still my first choice for information and training. You have seen me at every 2016 SHTP seminar so far. And I aint even doing the race! They are just as good as they were when I started attending them in the mid 90’s and as then, I thank all those who are making them possible.

    So now we can still attend the great SSS “classes” and we have to take another “parent” class also. I’m really ok with it I’m sure I can learn something there too. It would just be nice if it was easier to do. The online thing sounds good. I probably wont be ready for the Farallones anyway.

    But…
    Brian, you have suggested two things. To consider the reading BAMA’s required reading list as equivalent. I found those here :

    http://www.sfbama.org/2015/DHF/nr.pdf

    with links on page four. I will certainly reread these and if that works to get me in the Farallones entry list that’s great.

    Then as I said I probably wont be ready by then anyway so you suggested the ZYC race. This sounds like fun. I hope I would not be the only one there though.

    Then I guess there’s the chance the online course could be ready soon…

    Anyway I’m really looking forward to sailing on Sail a Vie in the Ocean again.

  9. #39
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    As a newbie around here, I became acquainted with the SSS about the time the SAS seminars were becoming required.
    I understand it was implemented in response, mainly, to the Low Speed Chase incident.

    When I joined SSS, My goals were, and are, to learn more, be safe, race the bay and coastal waters, and eventually do a SHTP.
    I accepted the equipment and seminar requirements and proceeded to fulfill them.

    I took the half day class at Strictly Sail 2014. The half day class is fairly entry level, teaching the proper way to use a life jacket, harness, tether, VHF/MMSI radio, MOB drills, reading swell and waves.
    They covered quite a bit for a half day class, and I have wanted to attend a two day class ever since.
    Nothing like hands on training.!

    A lot of the required equipment is not geared toward self rescue, but being able to assist someone already in the water.
    The equipment is top of the line with features to assist rescuers in locating us, i.e. DSCw/GPS integrated.
    I understand many of you have been doing this much longer than I have and your boats are set up for previous races, and, that having to upgrade equipment that is still useful is aggravating.
    It is also frustrating to have an outside entity telling you what to do.

    From my limited perspective, I want to be as safe as possible, which stems from my training and growing experience, learning to stay out of trouble and stay on the boat. Next is to be of maximum use in assisting in rescue of my fellow racer. This is where more of the equipment comes in. The down side I am beginning to see is that I am running out of room to pack stuff on my vest! and the limited real estate on the back of my boat! I have not found an ideal place to carry my handheld VHF.

    Looking at the History page and seeing how the SSS has grown from a grass roots movement to a club that hosts the largest regatta in North America, the TBF, lends me to think we need to be on the cutting edge of safety.
    Maybe we should generate our own 2 day hands on class geared around the solo racer's self rescue, ( getting into a liferaft from the water or reboarding a boat) and helping to rescue someone else from the water, solo.
    Lets take what the sailing community has given and refine it.

    That is how we remain respected as leaders in the racing community.

    All that said, I'm sorry this still does not help Phil find a class / solution.

  10. #40
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    pogen is offline Sailing canoe "Kūʻaupaʻa"
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianb View Post
    "Was respected " ?
    I think that we respect ourselves; hopefully that counts. We are well below the radar as far as the worldwide sailing community goes. And that's OK.

    I still think that a uniform equipment standard and training requirement is a good thing. Otherwise we will be back in the world of "oh shit, it says I need a 200' anchor rode and I just bought a 180' rode for the last race I did".

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