Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 20

Thread: Question about the necessity of lifelines

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    79

    Default Question about the necessity of lifelines

    I considered entering the 2014 race but decided not to because of the lifeline requirements. My Pearson Ariel has only bow pulpit railing, and adding the eight lifeline stanchions I'd need would involve drilling 32 holes (at 4 per stanchion) into my balsa-cored deck. My deck has withstood 53 years without core rot, and I'm not inclined to weaken my deck and introduce a rot vulnerability. After sailing my boat offshore single-handed for 6 years in up to 12 foot short-period swells and spending over 360 days at sea on her, I'm very confident in the jackline and harness arrangement I've been using. The boat can heel 90 degrees and I'll only get my feet wet -- while 24 inch-high lifelines are submerged at 45 degrees of heel on the "down" side (I have only 42 inches of freeboard amidships). I'm clipped in before I leave the cabin and stay that way till I return below. That system works for me, and there are no "trip/death" lines to snag me and foul my gear.

    My boat is otherwise ready to enter the race. Is this lifeline rule invariable, and if so, can anyone recommend where I can find stanchion bases that can be applied to the hull sides instead of the deck? The angles would have to be adjustable. I can cringe and drill 32 holes in my hull, since it's solid fiberglass. Then I'll just have to live with dragging my stanchion bases through the water at high angles of heel (past 30 degrees).
    Last edited by pbryant; 02-09-2016 at 01:08 PM.

  2. #2
    pogen's Avatar
    pogen is offline Sailing canoe "Kūʻaupaʻa"
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    927

    Default

    Lifelines are a requirement.

    It is quite possible to install hardware in a cored deck and keep the core water tight.

    See: http://www.boatus.com/magazine/2013/...-correctly.asp

    and http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/sealing_the_deck

    Other skippers have installed stanchions/lifelines specifically to do the SHTP in the past.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    79

    Default

    Thanks for your reply. I've seen poor results from what I'll call the "overdrill and seal with epoxy" approach. That method works fine for holes that aren't subjected to significant stress from torque (only sheer stresses from deck hardware). I use the technique myself for cleats and deck plates that are only subjected to sheer. But the substantial torquing that can be applied to the long lever-arm created by lifeline stanchions eventually cracks the epoxy fillets or separates (levers-up) the fillets under fiberglass skin, admitting water and resulting in progressive deterioration in the laminate. Eventually, a good pull will pop the epoxy fillets right out of the holes. Once the core around the fillets loses adhesion, the only thing holding the fillets in are the thin top and bottom layers of fiberglass.

    Nope - it's hull mounted stanchions or nothing. It'll be ugly, but I can remove them and patch the holes after the race. If a hull is strong enough for external chainplates, it's strong enough for stanchions. And if they leak, the fiberglass hull won't rot.
    Last edited by pbryant; 02-09-2016 at 01:32 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Berkeley Marina
    Posts
    154

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pbryant View Post
    Nope - it's hull mounted stanchions or nothing.
    I agree about the substantial forces that stanchion posts put on the tiny bases they all seem to have, which is why on a previous boat -- for which I had vaguely big plans and consequently over-engineered some things -- I put 1/8" (if memory serves) stainless plates underneath each base, probably 4x6", something like that. I didn't add any additional hardware, just the 4 bolts required for the stanchion base. The mirror finish added some yachty bling, too. Those stanchion posts were going to snap like twigs before the base & plate would even consider moving. Of course, I had already re-cored most of the deck anyway, thanks to leaky fittings at the bow pulpit and foredeck cleat.
    Just another option, although it sounds like you have a plan already.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    50

    Default

    The kind of bases that you are asking about are most commonly found on classic and traditional yachts. Places like Port Townsend Foundry and the Northwest Maritime Center Chandlery have them or can get them. They would be bronze and quite expensive. Probably not what you are looking for.

    I would call Minney's Yacht Surplus in Costa Mesa, CA. http://www.minneysyachtsurplus.com/ . They may have some older ones that are stainless.

    The best bet for a short term solution would be go find a welder. You could use mild steel tubing and plate if you plan on removing them anyway. Some paint would keep rust to a minimum for the few weeks they would be installed.

    Cheers,
    -jak

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,688

    Default

    Maybe a dumb question, but are you sure the deck is cored that close to the deck/hull joint? My boat has a balsa-cored deck but the stanchion bases are bolted through the area where it's solid fiberglass (the deck-to-hull flange). The bases are quite large and bolted through with five bolts each. If you rock a stanchion you can see that part of the deck flex a bit, but there's no coring to worry about.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    79

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jakmang View Post
    The kind of bases that you are asking about are most commonly found on classic and traditional yachts. Places like Port Townsend Foundry and the Northwest Maritime Center Chandlery have them or can get them. They would be bronze and quite expensive. Probably not what you are looking for.

    I would call Minney's Yacht Surplus in Costa Mesa, CA. http://www.minneysyachtsurplus.com/ . They may have some older ones that are stainless.

    The best bet for a short term solution would be go find a welder. You could use mild steel tubing and plate if you plan on removing them anyway. Some paint would keep rust to a minimum for the few weeks they would be installed.

    Cheers,
    -jak
    Thank you very much for the suggestions! I'll check it out!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    79

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BobJ View Post
    Maybe a dumb question, but are you sure the deck is cored that close to the deck/hull joint? My boat has a balsa-cored deck but the stanchion bases are bolted through the area where it's solid fiberglass (the deck-to-hull flange). The bases are quite large and bolted through with five bolts each. If you rock a stanchion you can see that part of the deck flex a bit, but there's no coring to worry about.
    Not a dumb question at all! The coring starts about 5 inches from the toe rail. But if I get water in between the fiberglass layers, it may still migrate to the edge of the core. The integrity of the epoxy bond in that area between layers is questionable. Placing the bases as close as possible to the deck edge raises concerns about flexing near the hull-to-deck joint causing leaks. The Pearson Ariel is notorious for leaks at that joint, and mine hasn't had any yet. With a 53 year old boat, that is rugged and stable - but not know for finer details in workmanship - a lot of my concerns are based on practicing "geriatric medicine".

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Fremont, CA
    Posts
    157

    Default

    I used to have an express 27. I thought the lifeline stanchion was elegant design. It can be seen in this photo. Does not require bolts and distributes load to both deck and hull. Curiously, I also used to have Pearson Ariel. I could imagine grassing/ gluing in a fiberglass tube to contain the stanchion which could be removed.

    http://express27.org/photos/606.jpg

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    79

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pbryant View Post
    Nope - it's hull mounted stanchions or nothing. It'll be ugly, but I can remove them and patch the holes after the race. If a hull is strong enough for external chainplates, it's strong enough for stanchions. And if they leak, the fiberglass hull won't rot.
    I just read through the NCORC rules, and found this: "Hull and Structure: Lifelines 2.4.2 A boat's stanchion and pulpit bases shall be within the working deck." I was just about to start drilling holes in my hull when I took a closer look at the rules.

    Well, that kills the idea of mounting the stanchion bases on the hull.

    This is not looking good for me... If this rule is strictly enforced, my last option for installing "impalement posts and trip lines" is closed off to me. It seems to me that the purpose of lifelines is to keep you from falling off the deck (or giving one a false sense of security so they don't clip in). What practical difference does it make (besides being less of trip hazard) having the stanchion centers 1/2 inch outboard of the toe rail?

    Am I reading this right? And if so, how strictly are the NCORC rules applied to the SHTP race?

    I'm one of those people who wears a helmet and never leaves the cabin without clipping in first. I feel naked without my tether in ocean swells. I see the whole idea of placing psychological placebos that could impale me on my deck as an exercise in conformity, so this last complication is a real blocker.
    Last edited by pbryant; 04-28-2016 at 02:28 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •