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Thread: Emergency Rudder Ideas

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    100

    Default Emergency Rudder Ideas

    I know that this is a topic well covered in various corners of the SSS websphere, so forgive me if I am covering old ground.

    I am prepping my boat (Capo 30: 30', 7500 lb displacement) for the 2017 LongPac and hopefully for the 2018 SSS Transpac. High on my long list of boat upgrades is installation of an emergency rudder system. As I see it, my options break roughly into the following:
    1) Buy a complete system from a commercial fabricator
    2) Work with / buy a system from a local non-commercial individual who knows what they are doing
    3) Fabricate myself
    4) Buy or rent a suitable system from a local sailor

    For option 1), I have solicited several quotes and they have come in roughly 1/3 the entire value of my boat. This does not seem like a good fit for a poor bastard / skinflint like myself.

    Option 2) is attractive, but I do not know anyone who fits this description. Suggestions welcome.

    Option 3) is also attractive, but given my experience (none) in fabricating complex laminate and high-load structural materials for safety-critical systems, I frankly don't trust myself. Perhaps in combination with option 2)?

    Option 4) is the most attractive of all. Surely there are boats out there similar to mine that have done the Transpac or PacCup in years past and whose emergency rudders are sitting in their garages. I would be interested in buying, or better yet renting their E-rudders (similar to renting a liferaft). They challenge is finding those boats and making contact with those skippers. Any specific leads for my boat would be welcome, along with any general ideas for facilitating the efficient re-use of the pool of E-rudders in the garages of our fellow sailors.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Arnold, CA
    Posts
    447

    Default

    My plan is option 3

    I plan to fabricate a foil and cassette along with a track to accommodate the cassette or the outboard bracket.

    I have most of the stainless and will order core material and carbon fiber soon.

    "FiberGlast" seems to have competitive pricing. Any other suggestions?

    For option 2, I believe solosailor has built a few cassette systems for SSSers.
    Last edited by Daydreamer; 12-15-2016 at 10:30 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    119

    Default

    Have you priced CCI Composites in Canada? They built ours. It's fabulous. We could keep racing with it and with the Canadian exchange rate it won't be 1/3rd the cost of your boat.
    Life is not a dress rehearsal.

    Bermuda 1-2 on a Schumacher 28

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    9

    Default

    E-rudders can be an expansive proposition. On the Moore 24 for the DH Pac Cup we used a rudder made by Gilles at GC Marine in Pt Richmond. I know the costs are higher than other vendors, but his rudders have been tested and proven to work. The construction is all carbon fiber and he was able to make the e-rudder tiller double as a spare tiller for our stock rudder.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    56

    Default

    If you are going to fabricate it yourself....please do some of the engineering calculations or have someone help you to make sure what you build is going to hold up to sail what may be 1,000 plus miles. Also, do make sure the system will allow deployment in an unpleasant sea state. I did what Ian did above....the cost is high, once you see what goes into the design and manufacture you start to understand why. Obviously if you have the engineering background, composite skills and time...it should be a fun project.
    Chris (Ventus)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    100

    Default Gilles at GC Marine

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Rogers View Post
    E-rudders can be an expansive proposition. On the Moore 24 for the DH Pac Cup we used a rudder made by Gilles at GC Marine in Pt Richmond. I know the costs are higher than other vendors, but his rudders have been tested and proven to work. The construction is all carbon fiber and he was able to make the e-rudder tiller double as a spare tiller for our stock rudder.
    I contacted Gilles about an E-rudder quote. He has been very responsive and I am confident that he does excellent work. Unfortunately, the quote was in the "1/3 the value of my boat" range. I completely understand how a one-off custom E-rudder is inherently expensive to fabricate. I will go there if I have to, but in the meantime I am exploring all other options. I continue to hold out hope that I can locate a suitable rudder for sale/rent from a previous Pac Cup, Transpac, or SH Transpac boat.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    56

    Default

    I wish you good luck finding something suitable. It is painful to shell out that much money for something you don't use. More sails would be easier to justify.
    C

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Live in Phoenix, boat in San Diego
    Posts
    252

    Default

    The line drawings on Sailboatdata.com for the Capo 30 and Capri 30 look similar, and dimensions don't look too different, or so it seems to ignorant me. Barry Bristol did the 2016 SHTP in a Capri 30, and someone told me the other day he won't do another. Maybe his e-rud gear is available for sale or rent.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    114

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tboussie View Post
    I contacted Gilles about an E-rudder quote. He has been very responsive and I am confident that he does excellent work. Unfortunately, the quote was in the "1/3 the value of my boat" range. I completely understand how a one-off custom E-rudder is inherently expensive to fabricate. I will go there if I have to, but in the meantime I am exploring all other options. I continue to hold out hope that I can locate a suitable rudder for sale/rent from a previous Pac Cup, Transpac, or SH Transpac boat.
    Can I ask what the quote amount was? I'm in the same position of needing a e-rudder and would love the information.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    1,550

    Default

    I made an emergency rudder for my Santana 3030 from closed cell foam and a mess of 'glass. It was terribly oversized, insanely heavy but it did steer the boat. I sold it to a couple of guys who were taking a 50-footer to Hawaii in the Pac Cup.

    In 2007 I made a foam core rudder from a NACA 0015 blank from Flying Foam - https://flyingfoam.com/

    I'm no whizbang composite dude, so I just put on layer of knytex - http://www.tapplastics.com/product/f...nytex_x_mat/91 in TAP medium-set marine epoxy and then a layer of unidirectional glass cloth over the top of that, oriented vertically along the rudder blade. I didn't vacuum it, I just laid out a mess of sandbags on the garage floor, wrapped the whole thing in wax paper.....that's right, wax paper.... and then put more sandbags on top. A day and half later I took it all apart. If I was doing it again, I'd use actual peel ply instead of wax paper. That would save a LOT of sanding.

    The thing was pretty heavy, a lot heavier than a foam/epoxy/carbon, vacuum-bagged rudder, but I could stand on it and sort-of jump up and down on it, so I figured it was pretty strong. It also cost 1/8th of what a custom rudder would cost. The blade wasn't *THAT* much work, but the cassette was a PITA. I made the cassette from wood and sections of door skins. Door skins will bend, with patience and encouragement. The skins were glued/screwed in the front to a shaped piece of 2 x 4. Three layers were epoxied together to make a 3/8ths inch cassette. In the back they were glassed over with mutliple layers of tape. Then I wrapped the thing with a few winds of unidirectional carbon in epoxy, just where the gudgeons were going to go. My welding dude in Redwood City made some custom gudgeons for me. They got attached and voila.

    This isn't my cassette, mine swept back to a "V" shape at the back, but you get the idea. It was basically like this, adding in the carbon fiber straps. This picture is from Kame Richards site.

    http://www.sailmaker.com/articles/e_...es/er_cas1.jpg

    I tested it in the Bay, sailing from Coyote Point to Berkeley and back again with the main rudder tied off and just using the emergency rudder. It loaded up a lot and sure it wasn't as fair as a pro-job but it worked.

    Honest truth is that my next emergency rudder will be purchased from Rudder Craft.
    https://ruddercraft.com/

    They make a NACA 0012 section, milled polyethylene rudder that will sit just fine on the back end of my boat. It's sized for something like a Catalina 25, and the price is great. It will, however, require patience to deploy as it doesn't come with a cassette.

    https://ruddercraft.com/index.php?ro...&product_id=98
    Last edited by AlanH; 12-31-2016 at 04:45 PM.
    S-2 7.9: "Wildcat of Loch Awe"
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