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Thread: Emergency Rudder Ideas

  1. #11
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    SHTP Inspectors - Does using a Galerider drogue rigged like in the video meet the e-rudder requirements for the SHTP?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vupIl68mCYg

  2. #12
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    [QUOTE=SeanRhone;16565]SHTP Inspectors - Does using a Galerider drogue rigged like in the video meet the e-rudder requirements for the SHTP?

    Not an inspector. Each boat and situation different. Up to the skipper to test and prove his emergency steering, not the inspector. As mentioned before, drogue may get a boat downwind to Hawaii. But never in time for the bronze belt buckle. And likely run out of food and water before anchor down. Best an active emergency steering system. My 2 cents.

  3. #13
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    I'm looking for an e-rudder that I don't have to put hole in my boat to install. I don't want/have $3k+ to buy a e-rudder system and I'm not "handy" enough to build a suitable system myself. I also don't want to 1/2 a$$ it and have some 2x4 with a paddle system which really won't do the job.

    What do you mean by an "active emergency steering"?

  4. #14
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    I encourage anyone going offshore to carry a drogue ...Galerider is good, car tire or milk crate does same thing. If you are satisfied with emergency steering using a drogue, I assume an SHTP inspector will also be. Unlikely he will call for a demonstration. That's up to you.

    That said, a reference to the video cited begs the question: why was the demonstration done in smooth water, under power, with no wind? More realistic is to sail offshore in a seaway and see what ya got. Like running back from 1/2 way to the Farallones in 20 knots. Let us know how it works, and a video would be good also.

  5. #15
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    You can buy an m-rud emergency rudder from Scanmar for less.

    http://www.selfsteer.com/products/monitor/mrud.php

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeanRhone View Post
    I'm looking for an e-rudder that I don't have to put hole in my boat to install. I don't want/have $3k+ to buy a e-rudder system and I'm not "handy" enough to build a suitable system myself. I also don't want to 1/2 a$$ it and have some 2x4 with a paddle system which really won't do the job.

    What do you mean by an "active emergency steering"?
    SeanRhone, an e-rudder doesn't have to be a hugely complicated composite structure. You can make a wood one. I'll outline the process for a smaller boat where you can mount the rudder a little off-center on a transom. If you have a reverse transom then look up pictures of Synthia Petroka's "Eyrie" when she did her TransPac. Look at the bracket/board thingy on the back end. You'll need a way to set that up. That's what I did.

    Anyway, the rudder.

    You'll want some gudgeons and pintles. For a boat that's 22-27 feet, you'll want gudgeons and pintles that use a half-inch pin. That's what a J-24 uses. I'd recommend looking here-

    http://www.duckworksbbs.com/hardware...l890/index.htm

    If I had a 22-24 footer I'd probably buy those bits, right there in that page I just linked to. If I had a bigger boat (like mine) I'd probably look around for hardware build a bit stronger, but still used a half-inch pin. West Marine sells some beefy stuff by Shaeffer. It's pricey, but it's beef. It need to be "drop in"....you just "drop' the rudder onto the fittings. What you DON'T want is a "line-up" setup like this.



    While it's undoubtably stronger, lining up all that stuff, while hanging off the back end of the boat is going to be a PITA, and may not even be possible. "Drop-in" is tough enough. I've done it...it takes patience and care and time, but it's doable..

    OK, look at your pintles. They're going to accomodate a rudder of a particular thickness, probably 1.5 or 1.75 inches. Well, plain old lumberyard douglas fir 2 x 4's or 2 x 6's are 1.75 inches thick. So go down to the lumberyard and buy some 2 x 6's or even 2 x 2's. Now, rip the 2 x 6's into 6 foot long 2 x 2 squares (which will really be 1.75 x 1.75). When you have six or seven of these, then mix-and-match 'em...turn a few upside-down, shuffle 'em up so that no piece of wood is lying exactly next to another piece originally from the same board. Then glue 'em together with epoxy like this.

    1968 Selmer Series 9 B-flat and A clarinets
    1962 Buesher "Aristocrat" tenor saxophone
    Piper One Design 24, Hull #35; "Alpha"

  7. #17
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    If you're into it, go look up NACA foil sections online. Modern rudders are often made in an airfoil shape that conforms pretty closely to the NACA 0012 foil. Some boats use NACA 0015. Here's a NACA 0015 foil.



    You can print that, then use your computer to blow it up until the front-to-back length is the same as the front-to-back length (called the Chord) of your rudder. I mean, print that out...just half of it, just one side... and transfer it to a piece of plywood or plastic and use that to help you shape your rudder. An NACA 0012 foil is skinnier than a NACA 0015 foil, so maybe NACA 0012 will work better with your 2 x 2 laminated rudder.


    However......
    Honestly, it's a freaking emergency rudder. Does it REALLY have to be an exact NACA foil? Instead, how about you seriously round off the front and then taper the back 2/3's to a reasonable straight line in the back that's about 1/4 inch thick? A hand-held power planer (used, about $50 on Craigslist) will do this job in about 4 hours. Make it as close to that NACA foil as you can but don't sweat the EXACTNESS of it all. Now sand the snot out of that "foil". Make it really smooth down to at least 100 grit sandpaper. You're going to do this to the bottom 3 1/2 feet (depending on your boat) of your rudder. The top you leave rectangular, 'cause it's not in the water.

    I'd suggest cutting back the top of the rectangular part of the rudder about the equivalent of one 2 x 2 board. Look at the rudder on the right, here. On the RIGHT. Figure out which edge of the rudder is the leading edge and which is the trailing edge. See how the upper part is cut back? Just cut that back about 2 inches, not more than that. This will make the rudder loads easier to steer.



    You don't have to do this, but you can trim off some of the top of the rudder to save weight. I'm going to suggest that you drill a half-inch hole clean through the top of the rudder, in the rectangular part, maybe 6-8 inches down from the top. If you have to deploy it, a safety line will go through this, and get tied to a strong point on the boat, so that if you drop it while deploying it, you won't lose it.

    OK, now paint the whole rudder with epoxy. Let it soak in really good. Sand. Paint again. Sand. Paint with an epoxy-based paint of whatever color turns you on.

    Now, install your pintles so that they fit with the spacing of the gudgeons on the back of the boat..

    Voila, emergency rudder.
    Last edited by AlanH; 01-17-2017 at 02:13 PM.
    1968 Selmer Series 9 B-flat and A clarinets
    1962 Buesher "Aristocrat" tenor saxophone
    Piper One Design 24, Hull #35; "Alpha"

  8. #18
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    You'll need a tiller for your emergency rudder, huh? I'd suggest not over-thinking this.





    It just has to be very strong. You know, the rudder doesn't HAVE to be able to swing up and down. What law says that it HAS to have straps that go on both sides of the rudder? You could literally just bolt a length of 2 x 2 to the side of the rudder head, right? If you plan ahead you might be able to set it up so that your autopilot can still run it.

    Finally, people think that tillers HAVE to face forward in the boat. They do not. A "bee stinger" tiller arm that sticks out the BACK, and is controlled by lines and blocks works just fine. You can run those lines to a wheel or to another tiller mounted in the cockpit....say if there's a six-foot lazarette at the back of your boat. Set up lines/blocks on the stern cleats, or if your spinnaker pole is longer than the transom is wide, then use that to increase your angle/leverage. That's exactly how my emergency tiller worked on my SC27.
    1968 Selmer Series 9 B-flat and A clarinets
    1962 Buesher "Aristocrat" tenor saxophone
    Piper One Design 24, Hull #35; "Alpha"

  9. #19
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    I love all the incredible composite e-rudders and cassettes that I keep seeing and man I'd love one, too. It's tough to justify dropping $2k on a system like that.

    But I know that I can build a strong, reasonably-performing low-tech system that will work with my tiller pilot, for about 25% of that. It just takes some time.

    Finally, another option is to just watch e-bay until a rudder comes up for sale.

    Like this:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Catalina-25-...BYEM4B&vxp=mtr

    Hell, if I was heading for Hawaii in 2018, I'd buy that thing right now. $359 plus shipping? The gudgeons to mount that will cost me about $70.

    I'd get the gudgeons and mount them to a piece of 2 x 4 or 2 x 6. Then I'd go down to Allan Steel and get some brackets made so I could "swing down" that board, with the rudder attached to it. Bolt those brackets to the boat...DONE.... for probably <$500.
    1968 Selmer Series 9 B-flat and A clarinets
    1962 Buesher "Aristocrat" tenor saxophone
    Piper One Design 24, Hull #35; "Alpha"

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    132

    Default E-Rudder Update

    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Sailor View Post
    The line drawings on Sailboatdata.com for the Capo 30 and Capri 30 look similar, and dimensions don't look too different, or so it seems to ignorant me. Barry Bristol did the 2016 SHTP in a Capri 30, and someone told me the other day he won't do another. Maybe his e-rud gear is available for sale or rent.

    Thanks to AZ Sailor for the suggestion of contacting Barry Bristol regarding his E-rudder. Jackie got me Barry's e-mail address and we have exchanged several messages. It looks like it should work for my boat. I plan to drive down to Encinitas next month to check it out in person and hopefully take delivery.

    BTW, I did get a quote from CCI Composites that came in at ~$2800 including shipping. I would have to add the cassette mounting hardware to that, bringing the total in >$3000. I was ready to go there, and still will if Barry's rudder does not work out.

    Tom

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