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Thread: Storm Sails

  1. #11
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    Greg, it's a dedicated, soft stay made from Dynex Dux and attached to the mast with a t-ball fitting (into a socket). The bottom end leads aft to a two-part purchase dead-ended next to the cabintop winch, with the tail brought through a clutch to the winch. It needs to be a fair lead - I blew up a clutch when I first tensioned it.

    As Justin implies, the strength and rigidity of the deck is critical. If your existing track is for the spinny downhaul/foreguy it won't be strong enough and the load will damage the cored deck. If the track is for a baby stay it might be okay, but you really need to transfer the load down into the hull like I did. Unless you have a Valiant 32...

    This setup was intended for a solent, not so much for a storm jib, and it turned out the existing furler compromises the program. When you get the solent stay tight enough to be able to point, the furler is sloppy loose and you can't roll/unroll the sail that's on it. So it's a two-stage process to get some tension and hoist the hanked-on sail, then roll the sail on the furler, then tension the soft stay fully. I was still not able to get sufficient tension to point normally with the solent, plus the rolled-up sail ahead of the solent causes some drag.

    I did all this several years ago and haven't messed with it since, but I'm talking to North about the big picture and maybe going to hanked-on headsails exclusively. There are various attachment options besides traditional hanks - my #4 attaches with soft hanks for example.

    Fun stuff but the boat is pretty good now and at some point you just have to stop...
    .
    Last edited by BobJ; 02-16-2017 at 11:14 AM.

  2. #12
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    Frolic (Islander 36) has a removable solent (inner forestay). Main reasons: The boat came with a roller furler and I was too cheap to trade/convert the roller furler sails for hanked, and I don’t like being that far forward when it’s rough. And the sail balance is noticeably better with the jib tacked inboard and a deep-reefed main. When off shore, and not in use, the storm jib (with sheets attached) is bagged and hanked onto the solent stay which is stowed by ‘tacking’ it to a chain-plate shroud base. The stay wire is spliced to warp speed which is led thru a big mast-mounted clutch via which it can be winched tight. The solent halyard is led to the cockpit and also serves as a 2nd topping lift (for two-pole operation). Some images of the install and in use (it’s not as pretty as Bob’s): https://goo.gl/photos/iqbhstopZFfoZMQS6

  3. #13
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    Not sure that an 80% jib is really small enough for the Big Stuff. It might fulfill the rulez, tho. Also, is that 80% jib able to be raised a foot or eighteen inches off the deck? Is it a high-clew sail?
    S-2 7.9: "Wildcat of Loch Awe"
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanH View Post
    Not sure that an 80% jib is really small enough for the Big Stuff. It might fulfill the rulez, tho. Also, is that 80% jib able to be raised a foot or eighteen inches off the deck? Is it a high-clew sail?
    I don't want to suggest deviating away from the Safety First principles, but realistically, going to Hawaii, is there really a need to go upwind in conditions that warrant a storm jib on a heavy displacement boat? There is definitely a time and a place for a storm jib, but I just don't see going to Hawaii from California being one of them.

    Pretty sure (having owned two Valiant 32's) that with an 80% jib and two reefs, you could go upwind in 40 knots. The waves would stop you from going upwind long before having two much sail area up will.
    Life is not a dress rehearsal.

    Bermuda 1-2 on a Schumacher 28

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by svShearwater View Post
    I don't want to suggest deviating away from the Safety First principles, but realistically, going to Hawaii, is there really a need to go upwind in conditions that warrant a storm jib on a heavy displacement boat? There is definitely a time and a place for a storm jib, but I just don't see going to Hawaii from California being one of them.

    Pretty sure (having owned two Valiant 32's) that with an 80% jib and two reefs, you could go upwind in 40 knots. The waves would stop you from going upwind long before having two much sail area up will.
    Maybe it would be beneficial for the return leg? In that case, I'd concede a storm jib should be on the boat.
    Life is not a dress rehearsal.

    Bermuda 1-2 on a Schumacher 28

  6. #16
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    “I don't want to suggest deviating away from the Safety First principles, but realistically, going to Hawaii, is there really a need to go upwind in conditions that warrant a storm jib on a heavy displacement boat? There is definitely a time and a place for a storm jib, but I just don't see going to Hawaii from California being one of them.”

    I think the storm jib is most useful for running in conditions where the following seas are manageable, eg, not big enough to slip the boat. The trysail and storm jib combo would theoretically (depending on the boat of course) allow clawing uphill in big wind, off a lee shore for example. I haven’t had to use my storm jib in storm conditions. In the low 40’s I can close reach with my deepest reef in the main and either a scandalized, reefed headsail (essentially a no 4), or for better balance, with a small staysail (like the storm jib) on my inner forestay. It’d be interesting to hear from those that’ve really had to use their storm sails, perhaps some of the 2016 SHTP sailors or Pac Cuppers….

  7. #17
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    Maybe it would be beneficial for the return leg? In that case, I'd concede a storm jib should be on the boat.
    +1...in addition to having to turn around due to breakage or otherwise.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by hodgmo View Post
    “I don't want to suggest deviating away from the Safety First principles, but realistically, going to Hawaii, is there really a need to go upwind in conditions that warrant a storm jib on a heavy displacement boat? There is definitely a time and a place for a storm jib, but I just don't see going to Hawaii from California being one of them.”

    I think the storm jib is most useful for running in conditions where the following seas are manageable, eg, not big enough to slip the boat. The trysail and storm jib combo would theoretically (depending on the boat of course) allow clawing uphill in big wind, off a lee shore for example. I haven’t had to use my storm jib in storm conditions. In the low 40’s I can close reach with my deepest reef in the main and either a scandalized, reefed headsail (essentially a no 4), or for better balance, with a small staysail (like the storm jib) on my inner forestay. It’d be interesting to hear from those that’ve really had to use their storm sails, perhaps some of the 2016 SHTP sailors or Pac Cuppers….
    Pac Cup 2016 was the windiest year for Pac Cup on record and I know of two boats that used their storm jibs. We were one of those boats. We used it as a spinnaker staysail (3300 pound 28 footer). The other boat was a 3300 pound 30 footer on the first night, close reaching in ~30 knots. They were unable to trim their #4 for that angle without the leech flogging, so the opted for the storm jib to save the #4. For both of those cases, it wasn't necessary to use the storm jib, there were plenty of good alternatives, but we used them because we had them.
    Life is not a dress rehearsal.

    Bermuda 1-2 on a Schumacher 28

  9. #19
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    Have past inspectors ever been convince that a third reef passes as a storm sail. I mean at 50+ knt winds and building seas, aside from a lee shore, I'm going to either heeve to, barepoles and maybe deploying a drogue. I can climb up wind with my stay sail. Every boat and skipper behaves differently in every kind of condition so I'm wondering if the inspection process is modified for each boat or is it one size fits all.
    I've never used a storm try sail so educate me.

  10. #20
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    The inspection process for the SHTP has been mostly "one size fits all" to take most of the subjectivity out of it. PacCup inspections seem to be more subjective and whether a solution meets a rule can depend on which inspector you get.

    SHTP allows either a trys'l or a main that can be reefed down by at least 40% of the luff length. Here's the text of the rule from the 2016 race:

    4.52 Storm sails.

    [a] Mainsails and Trysails.
    [1] A storm trysail capable of being sheeted independently of the boom, of an area not greater than 17.5% of mainsail luff length x mainsail foot length. It shall have neither headboard nor battens. A method of attaching the trysail to the mast shall be provided. The yacht's sail number and letter(s) shall be placed on both sides of a trysail in as large a size as is practicable, OR
    [2] Mainsail reefing to reduce the luff length by at least 40%, but which does not obscure the appearance of the yacht's sail numbers.

    [b] Headsails
    [1] If the rig is of a type on which a headsail is commonly used, then a storm jib shall be provided which attaches to a stay by a strong and secure method, is of an area not greater than 5% of the height of the foretriangle squared, and has a luff no longer than 65% of the height of the foretriangle, OR
    [2] A heavy weather jib of 85% LP or less, of non-aramid fiber construction, that does not contain battens.
    Last edited by BobJ; 02-16-2017 at 01:26 PM.

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