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Thread: Anchoring and Its Discontents

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
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    Live in Phoenix, boat in San Diego
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    272

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    A ton of great information here the last two days. Thanks very much for these contributions. And, yes, the "disparate viewpoints" are extremely helpful. I think I'll be adding that second, lighter ground tackle system in a bag on deck for departure and arrival. Don't know if it will be feasible to send the primary in the crate, so it might all end up secured down below. Given that this boat comes in at almost 12,000# empty, I don't think carrying both systems will slow me down enough to matter. Getting weight out of the ends to improve the motion and the speed is what I'm more concerned with.

    I may not race all that often, but when I do I am certainly trying to beat every boat in my class -- even though I never have and don't expect to here. But going out on increasingly longer sails, and treating them like races by trying to keep the boat moving as fast as possible all the time, has been a really eye-opening experience and a lot of fun. Look out, Bill, I've got Dolfin in the cross hairs.

    If it was just a matter of making a first ocean crossing, it would be a lot easier and cheaper to sail from San Diego to Hilo.
    Lee
    s/v Morning Star
    Valiant 32

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    San Francisco Bay
    Posts
    156

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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelJefferson View Post
    Bob,
    ...Many competitors have benefited from my tools and spares after arrival in Hawaii, and they have allowed me to repair a number of fairly serious breakdowns at sea over the years. My motivations in doing the TransPac are perhaps different than yours, but I do not feel that they in any way diminish my credibility or right to do the race. Almost all my finishes have been mid fleet, but my memories and enjoyment in the hard sailing, the camaraderie and bonds made with the other sailors far transcend any happiness that getting a trophy would create FOR ME.

    ...
    Mike, As one of the many beneficiaries of your largess, I have to say that you are one of the sparkling points of light in the SHTP.

    And if one wants to learn about anchoring in Hanalei Bay, a good surrogate is Drakes Bay in a blow, another open roadsted which is well protected until the wind shifts. And shift it did this summer during the Drakes Bay 1-2 this past summer 2017. Nothing more upsetting that waking up in the morning and seeing one of the raciest boats in the Bay Area (a beautiful Antrim 40) on her side up on the beach following an early-morning wind shift. And she wasn't the only one to be damaged that night.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,193

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    Michael IS a good guy and has been a big help to many. Had he not started his first of three rants with this, I wouldn't have reacted so curtly:

    "anyone sailing to it would be well advised to ignore people babbling about how you want to go as light as possible..."

    Perhaps the most fascinating aspect of this race is the resource management challenge. It doesn't mean going as light as possible and I've never promoted that - you can't win if you don't finish. But it also doesn't mean accepting a one-size-fits-all solution to ground tackle, regardless of the size and weight of the boat, as was presented in the first rant.

    Over my years in the SSS I've learned that most SHTP hopefuls are pretty bright people (they sail after all!) and will make wise choices when presented with the options.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    San Francisco Bay
    Posts
    156

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobJ View Post
    Michael IS a good guy and has been a big help to many. Had he not started his first of three rants with this, I wouldn't have reacted so curtly:

    "anyone sailing to it would be well advised to ignore people babbling about how you want to go as light as possible..."

    Perhaps the most fascinating aspect of this race is the resource management challenge. It doesn't mean going as light as possible and I've never promoted that - you can't win if you don't finish. But it also doesn't mean accepting a one-size-fits-all solution to ground tackle, regardless of the size and weight of the boat, as was presented in the first rant.

    Over my years in the SSS I've learned that most SHTP hopefuls are pretty bright people (they sail after all!) and will make wise choices when presented with the options.
    You're another good guy, Bob. Many thanks for the good advice over the past few years.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    86

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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Sailor View Post

    If it was just a matter of making a first ocean crossing, it would be a lot easier and cheaper to sail from San Diego to Hilo.
    You've got that right, Lee. For us out of town buglighters, we at least need to carry heavy ground tackle for the trip up to San Francisco - then what? Once there I was so busy with everything else and so used to that big CQR on the bow that it kind of hid there all the way to Kauai. No wonder I didn't win! A 45lb plow with 270ft of 5/16 chain in the chain locker, not to mention a Monitor wind vane on the stern. But it sure came in handy when Dolfin arrived in Hanalei. I admit that my instincts are much more those of a cruiser than a racer which Mike might appreciate but with which Bob may have some issues. Not to mention Skip, who fortunately didn't witness me crossing the starting line like some big Navy ship with huge anchor ready to drop. I have so much respect for you all, which is why I want to be a part of this amazing race once again. But maybe I need to off load some of my cruising stuff this time.

    Bill Meanley
    Dolfin, Pacific Seacraft 37

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
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    San Francisco Bay
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    156

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    Quote Originally Posted by dolfinbill View Post
    ...maybe I need to off load some of my cruising stuff this time.

    Bill Meanley
    Dolfin, Pacific Seacraft 37
    Nah. Just get bigger sails!

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    86

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Smokester View Post
    Nah. Just get bigger sails!
    But then I would just have to reef more.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Santa Barbara Sometimes
    Posts
    166

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    In addition to the informative perspectives seen in this forum, consider looking at “The Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring” by Earl R Hinz, and “Staying Put” by Brian Fagan, both available on Amazon. The Hinz book is analytical and so may especially appeal to engineering-minded people. Fagan’s book is more general, and includes some fun how-to sections, for example, anchoring under sail.

    In the 2012 race Frolic (Islander 36, ~15,000 lb) carried her well-proven Santa Barbara Island cruising anchor systems: a 44 lb Claw (Bruce knockoff) with 300 ft of chain, and two complete sets of lighter anchor systems with nylon/chain rode (250 and 450 ft), one rigged on the stern, and the other as a backup and for kedging (forced by wind shifts). The heavy, all-chain bow system is easily handled with a powerful Nillson Windlass (with engine running). During the race, the 44 lb’er was lashed just aft of the mast on the cabin sole, and the chain was in the bilge. During the last day of sailing, about 100 nm out of Hanalei, I re-installed the 44 lb anchor and chain on the bow – which, as Michael points out, can be, and in this case was, a perilous (and tiring) operation. I’ll never do that again!

    In the 2014 race, trying to be more racy, I removed a lot of mass off Frolic including her ~50 lb windlass, and the 44 lb anchor - which was shipped with other gear wanted for the return to Hanalei (thanks Dave!). Onboard, I carried a 27 lb Danforth with about 50 ft of chain and 200 ft of nylon rode, both stowed in the bilge. This was a simple system to rig as I approached the finish, and I had no trouble anchoring, including a solid set using the inboard. After I retrieved the 44 lb anchor in Hanalei, I swapped out the Danforth for that. Also, mainly for the start (in a flood), I carried a ~10 lb Aluminum Danforth-style (Viking) anchor with a lighter, shorter rode in a bag in the cockpit locker, rigged and ready for quick deployment. Turns out there was enough wind to sail out, so the latter system was never used.

    If I do the race again in Frolic or a similar sized boat, I’d handle anchoring the same as I did in 2014. On a much lighter boat, I’d have a much lighter system (duh!), probably using a small Fortress (one size up from ‘spec’ as Bob mentioned above). I wouldn’t do the return on any boat without at least two complete anchoring systems aboard that I’d used before. Truthfully, having had to ditch an anchor and rode several times to escape a suddenly-turned dangerous anchorage, I don’t think I’d do any offshore race without two anchoring systems aboard, even if the backup was rightfully considered to be marginal.

    An interesting aside: despite having to anchor and re-anchor several times in 2012 and 2014, I never used the windlass in Hanalei. In 2012 it didn’t work (footswitch failure due to water ingress), and in 2014 it wasn’t there. In both cases, I really missed having the windlass! This of course isn’t an issue for smaller boats.

    “If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.” Zen Proverb

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    161

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    In 2014 I displaced 2450 lbs. I carried an aluminum Fortress, 13.5' chain and about 200 feet of rope. Couldn't back it down or didn't bother to ask. I anchored in about 15 feet. While I was knocked out under a condo-ed roof & cool sheet, the boat drifted west toward coral. How lucky was I that Cliff on Rainbow was nearby. He tried to pull her with the dinghy to no avail and then shouted for help, boat sleepers awoke to his cries and helped re-anchor her. I am indebted to Cliff and the other Cruisers who came to his aid.

    Afterward, Brian and I attached my steel Danforth (feels like 25 lbs) that I had shipped over in the crate and it held for the remainder. This was in addition to the aluminum anchor. In other words, I had two bites. I dived the anchors daily to ensure they were holding. In 2014, there were no strong tropical depressions coming through as in 2016.

    If I return in 2024, I will again arrive just after lunch, carry the heavy steel Danforth, ask the launch boat to back her down, and have George dive her daily.

    Oh forgot to mention that you may not be all of yourself upon arrival. I lost my voice, wretched my left shoulder and was goofy grinning, so I was very happy to receive help getting sails down and anchoring.
    Last edited by Submarino; 02-11-2018 at 10:49 PM.

  10. #40
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    May 2015
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    Redwood City
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    801

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    Quote Originally Posted by Submarino View Post
    was goofy grinning
    Love it ... reminds me of my youth and exploring other venues besides school/college for mind expansion ...
    P___/)___J
    Solo RTW

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