View Poll Results: Should Surprise! keep her mizzen?

Voters
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  • Yes!

    9 81.82%
  • Put lawn chairs back there.

    2 18.18%
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Thread: Surprise!'s Mizzen Poll

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    2,211

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    I say don’t make a decision until you’ve sailed solo offshore w that mizzen.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Alameda CA
    Posts
    336

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobJ View Post
    What I meant by "all that back there" is the mizzen boom, etc. which overhang the stern. I could probably install an e-rudder but that stuff would be in the way.
    OR - it could make a handy crane to dangle said e-rudder from while mounting it.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Saratoga
    Posts
    108

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    I'm a big fan of broken sail plans, after spending a couple weeks on a ketch between San Diego and Magdalena Bay thirty years ago next month.
    I also agree with the folks who have already said you haven't had her long enough to really know yet.
    Foresail and mizzen is nice in big air, while keeping you centered on the boat dealing with just the main alone.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,869

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    I've tried sailing "jib and jigger" with it in about 20 knots. That sail plan works on a ketch (where the mizzen is larger) but this mizzen is tiny and the boat felt out of balance.

    The mizzen makes some sense for cruising. It becomes slightly effective off the wind (and cruisers try hard to avoid sailing to weather). Other advantages are using it as a riding sail when anchored, and its mast would be an out-of-the-way place for a radar dome.

    For the way I'll use the boat - racing around solo on SF Bay and the coast - I see no real benefits. If it goes away at least you'll know why.

    However the massive voting is running 80% towards keeping it!
    .
    Last edited by BobJ; 01-27-2019 at 11:04 AM.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    1,281

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    For racing on the Bay, not sure if there's any point. However, for racing off the wind in a straight line for a long time, I bet there's very MUCH a point.

    https://www.classicboat.co.uk/practi...in-depth-look/

    DORADE, a boat which one might consider to be more than middlin' successful as a racer.



    THat's a little dinky mizzen. I've never spent time on a boat with a mizzen, I'd sure love to hear from someone who'se raced a boat like Dorade, extensively.
    S-2 7.9: "Wildcat of Loch Awe"
    1968 Selmer Series 9 B-flat and A clarinets
    Piper One Design 24, Hull #35; "Alpha"

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    1,281

    Default

    DORADE, again....eensie-weensie mizzen

    S-2 7.9: "Wildcat of Loch Awe"
    1968 Selmer Series 9 B-flat and A clarinets
    Piper One Design 24, Hull #35; "Alpha"

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Montara, CA
    Posts
    733

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    My vote is to keep it until you after you've sailed it for a while and really, really want it gone. So that was a sorta "yes."

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    SF Bay
    Posts
    217

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanH View Post
    That's a little dinky mizzen.
    That little mizzen is all about optimizing her rating while maximizing downwind speed. That’s confirmed in the article you linked.

    “Though Dorade’s downwind profile looked amazingly similar to images of her sailing past Oahu’s Diamond Head in 1936, the striking difference was her new mizzen sail. The handkerchief-sized sail that went only two-thirds up the mizzen, allowed the boat to keep her yawl rating and ability to fly staysails, but the reduced area allowed clean wind to reach the staysails.”

    Me thinks SURPRISE! needs at least a mizzen staysail, if not a spinnaker.

    Tom

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    2,211

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dazzler View Post
    That little mizzen is all about optimizing her rating while maximizing downwind speed. That’s confirmed in the article you linked.

    “... allowed the boat to keep her yawl rating and ability to fly staysails[/B], but the reduced area allowed clean wind to reach the staysails”
    Tom
    So what was her rating compared to the other boats’? Is Surprise!’s rating significantly advantageous enough as a yawl compared to the boats against which she would sail today?

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    SF Bay
    Posts
    217

    Default

    Jackie,
    My comments were directly related to DORADE and why she carried that small (odd looking?) mizzen for the TransPac. Yacht designers have always looked for ways to gain any advantage available under the rating rule applicable at that time. The yawl rig under the CCA rule offered the advantage of unrated sail area in the form of mizzen staysails. This is why yawls became popular on the East coast where many of the distance races are predominantly reaching.

    As for SURPRISE!, I suspect that if Bob removed the mizzenmast the rating would be changed to reflect less sail area. Bob’s basic question is: For how he intends to use the boat, is the mizzenmast (and associated sail) helping or not.

    Tom
    Last edited by Dazzler; 02-02-2019 at 02:24 PM.

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