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Thread: New Rudder for Dura Mater?

  1. #1
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    Default New Rudder for Dura Mater

    Went 'round and round about this back in 2014, but now I'm serious about a new rudder for Dura Mater. However, I'm looking for advice and maybe some suggestions. Here is a drawing sent me by Finco Fabrication in Santa Ana, regarding the rudder they would build for me:

    CAL 227 SCHUMACHER FEB 1 2019 Model (1).pdf

    It seems that Dura Mater has the rudder that is represented by the dotted lines.

    Name:  Dura Mater in the yard.jpg
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    The confusion for me is that this rudder is referred to as a Schumacher design, while Cal 2-27s were designed by Lapworth. If I get this new rudder, will Dura Mater be fast like Surprise!, Summertime Dream and JouJou?
    Last edited by Philpott; 03-25-2019 at 05:24 PM.

  2. #2
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    I like the shape they're proposing. Did he explain why? However from that drawing configuration, it seems like it would stick out the back and way out of the water. Has he built a similar rudder for another Cal 2-27 or is this a rudder he's built before? You might want to ask Shad/Dark Horse what issue he had with his rudder when he went to install it a day or so before the SHTP. He and his friend were having a heck of a time because the post was just a bit larger than the old one. Also suggest you ask why he is proposing to use 304 instead of 316. It's my understanding that 316 SS is better quality (depending on its source). Not to scare you off from this -- I think it's great -- just thinking through some questions that I'd ask. Good luck! Don't forget pictures and updates on the progress
    Last edited by Gamayun; 02-01-2019 at 07:51 PM.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philpott View Post
    Went 'round and round about this back in 2014, but now I'm serious about a new rudder for Dura Mater. However, I'm looking for advice and maybe some suggestions...

    The confusion for me is that this rudder is referred to as a Schumacher design, while Cal 2-27s were designed by Lapworth. If I get this new rudder, will Dura Mater be fast like Surprise!, Summertime Dream and JouJou?
    Rudder Inspection 101:
    *Does water come out after a haulout?
    *Are there any visible crack, particularly around the edges?
    *Has the rudder ever been “lowered” (dropped is not a nice term) for inspection of the rudder post?
    *Have you tried drilling two small holes (one at the top and one at the bottom) to see if water comes out? These are easy to patch.

    There are basically two reasons to replace your rudder:
    1. To address an aging/failing rudder (e.g. wet/waterlogged causing deteriorating internal welds, a corroded rudder post, etc.)
    2. To improve performance (i.e. control, helm balance, etc.). The (improved) Carl Schumacher eliptical rudder designs have been proven to provide better performance. Even ALL the Express 37’s have gone to replacing their original rudders with the improved design.

    As for going faster... well the FinCo website says:
    “These newer designs won't make your boat actually go faster, but are designed to improve handling and directional control. This is most important when sailing very fast and can help prevent broaching and spin-outs. One of our most popular upgrades is the Schumaker rudder designed by Carl Schumaker for the Cal 40. This basic design has proven to be a very popular replacement on boats ranging from 32 to 45-feet LOA. If you own a broach coach you might consider a new "Schumaker" rudder even if your current one is still in good condition.”

    Tom

  4. #4
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    Take another batch of oatmeal raisin to BMC, and ask Cree; he has a lot of thoughts on rudders.

    And who built that compass fairing block?
    Last edited by Intermission; 02-01-2019 at 09:32 PM. Reason: Fairing block envy

  5. #5
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    Thanks, Carliane. Another good story about Shad. I’ll ask about the difference between 306 and 316. And Tom, that last part about going faster? That was just wishful thinking. Maybe after the Corinthian I’ll shove my rudder through w a dowel and lay it out on E dock for a group looksee. We may as well make this an educational group activity.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intermission View Post
    Take another batch of oatmeal raisin to BMC, and ask Cree; he has a lot of thoughts on rudders.

    And who built that compass fairing block?
    Actually, Brad, several years ago Cree pulled Dura Mater so I could take a look. He went to lunch and told me I had until he was done to cogitate, then he had to pull a crab boat. Needless to say, everybody in the yard came by with an opinion. Paul Kamen was walking by, looking for some free parts for his kayak, probably, and said it looked fine to him. Cree said “Better safe than sorry, it IS 40 years old”. No pitting. I’ll pull it. We’ll see. And what’s a compass fairing block?
    Last edited by Philpott; 02-01-2019 at 09:54 PM.

  7. #7
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    I'm with Paul. I went through an expensive rudder replacement on Ragtime! and the improvement was marginal.

    Unless the rudder is holding water and/or there are doubts about the rudder shaft, that money is better spent elsewhere IMO.

  8. #8
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    I'm sorry, I feel like this is my fault. When sailing with Jackie I complained about the rudder, mostly that under power it would pull hard to one side. I don't know enough to be helpful so I apologise. Forget what this lunatic said.
    P___/)___J
    Solo RTW

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamottep View Post
    I'm sorry, I feel like this is my fault. When sailing with Jackie I complained about the rudder, mostly that under power it would pull hard to one side. I don't know enough to be helpful so I apologise. Forget what this lunatic said.
    The prop wash / prop walk are what would cause the loading to one side under power.

    If you couldn't get the boat to balance, reduce weather helm, then I would look to an improved design.

    Unless there were water intrusion and corrosion the original one should be fine.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daydreamer View Post
    The prop wash / prop walk are what would cause the loading to one side under power.
    .
    +1

    PJ: most boats with inboard engines and propellers near the rudder experience the rudder pull you describe. My concern, seeing the photo, is the drag from DM's exposed solid 3 blade (fixed) prop far exceeds the 6 second/mile handicap benefit, IMO. The draggy zincs half way down the shaft are slowing DM also.

    (One problem with a solid cruising prop on a fast boat (like delivering a SC-70 home from Hawaii) is the solid prop can turn when left in gear under sail, and pump water into the engine cylinders, wrecking the engine. Happened to EVOLUTION a few years back. No worries, Jackie, this scenario would not happen on DM.)

    Streamlined zincs are available. They should be mounted ~1/2" in front of the strut, for best fairing and to allow water into the Cutlass Bearing. Alternatively, racing to Hawaii, I removed my zincs before the race, and replaced them in Hanalei or Kaneohe diving under the boat. A galvanized bucket hung under the shaft can be used to catch any parts you drop.

    Apologies for off topic...
    Last edited by sleddog; 02-02-2019 at 05:01 PM.

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