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  1. #1
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    Default Shtp 2020!

    In 2014, I sold my Moore 24 and migrated to the other coast. I never made it to Hawaii in the Moore--I think I sailed about five shorthanded races, total--but the idea was firmly planted.

    Later this year I should complete an un-migration and return. I can't claim to be coming back a local, as I'll be stuck in northern NV, but the boat will live in SF Bay and I'm already plotting for 2020! I have a new weapon, a Jeanneau Sun Fast 3200, and she is thirsty for some Mai Tais.

    I have a couple of questions I'd like to pitch to the audience.

    I am not rightly sure what my employer thinks of these plans, but I am concerned I won't be able to be take enough time off to sail the boat home. I'd be obliged if anyone could give me a ballpark figure on what it would take to send her home on a ship. I would imagine it's a trip of close to three weeks on her own keel.

    The boat's equipped with a twin rudder/twin tiller setup. When I did the Bermuda 1-2 in 2017, I met the emergency tiller requirement with the combination of having two of both-and showing I could keep the weather one in the water if the leeward one was gone- as well as having a backup plan of doing the old spin pole off the transom number. Would any of the kind folks who know about such things weigh in on whether or not that would meet the requirements of the SHTP?

    Am I getting ahead of myself? When I can't sail, I like to plan for sailing!

    Steve

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by talonf4u View Post
    I have a new weapon, a Jeanneau Sun Fast 3200, and she is thirsty for some Mai Tais.

    Steve
    Just to be clear, Steve: Is this what you seek? https://vimeo.com/280102650

  3. #3
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    Default

    *mouth waters*

  4. #4
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    Default

    Well, I can't comment to the erud question but your post makes it perfectly clear that we need to start up the SHTP 2020 thread. We are only 16 months out.

    The Mai Tais were pretty good too, what I can remember of them anyway.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Default

    You'll have to check with the race committee once it's formed but I do recall a dual rudder (& tiller) boat will already meet the emergency rudder rules.

    As to shipping it won't be cheap. They charge for the "box" size and your boat is wide. My Azzura 310 (10ft x 31ft) I was quoted $8800 last year. Then you have to add in for the haul out, strapping, cradle since your not a trailer sailor, truck haul to the Matson yard, etc. $12-15k would be my guess.

  6. #6
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by solosailor View Post
    You'll have to check with the race committee once it's formed but I do recall a dual rudder (& tiller) boat will already meet the emergency rudder rules.

    As to shipping it won't be cheap. They charge for the "box" size and your boat is wide. My Azzura 310 (10ft x 31ft) I was quoted $8800 last year. Then you have to add in for the haul out, strapping, cradle since your not a trailer sailor, truck haul to the Matson yard, etc. $12-15k would be my guess.
    Solo is correct regarding the e-rudder, at least under the 2018 rule set. Subject to change (as noted) when the new set is published. Here's the specific text of SER 3.29.1 from 2018:
    A boat shall have an alternative method of steering the yacht in any sea condition in the event of rudder failure. The skipper shall have practiced one method of steering the boat with the rudder disabled and be prepared to demonstrate said method of steering both upwind and downwind. The Race Committee may require a demonstration. It is recommended that a cassette plus rudder be employed as they have been found to be the easiest system to install in a seaway.

    FWIW... I would read that as twin rudders likely can fulfill the requirement provided you can demonstrate that the linkage can be undone so the disabled one can be isolated from the working one, and that you have a plan for a wholesale backup, as you mentioned.
    Again, subject to revision and interpretation by the committee, when it's constituted.

    He's also correct re the shipping costs; a couple things to add there... there are some tweaks between the 2 rates, depending on where you ship from... PacCup has a "deal" with Pasha from Honolulu that you may be able to horn in on, but you will have to sail to Honolulu first and deal with the noted haul out and other logistics there. I think that was where Solo's quote came from. They charge by the square of the boat (Length X width).
    I was going to suggest that you could haul the boat with Larry Conklin's crane in Kauai, and then ship with Matson; with a light displacement of 7500lbs and 6'2" draft, that likely is not going to be an option however.
    Or at least will be in the "iffy" range.
    Matson charges cube weight (eg Length (sans mast) x Height x width) but at a lower per foot rate... it basically it all evens out, mostly.
    I think that whichever way you look at it Solo's numbers are pretty sound.

    Regardless, something else to consider is the overall height of the boat on the trailer with the rig stacked on top.
    I know for a fact if that is over 13' Matson won't take it. Don't know about Pasha.

    DH
    Last edited by DaveH; 03-06-2019 at 02:27 PM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    San Francisco
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    Default E-Rudder... if I have two rudders?

    Quote Originally Posted by talonf4u View Post
    In 2014, I sold my Moore 24 and migrated to the other coast. I never made it to Hawaii in the Moore--I think I sailed about five shorthanded races, total--but the idea was firmly planted.

    Later this year I should complete an un-migration and return. I can't claim to be coming back a local, as I'll be stuck in northern NV, but the boat will live in SF Bay and I'm already plotting for 2020! I have a new weapon, a Jeanneau Sun Fast 3200, and she is thirsty for some Mai Tais.

    I have a couple of questions I'd like to pitch to the audience.

    I am not rightly sure what my employer thinks of these plans, but I am concerned I won't be able to be take enough time off to sail the boat home. I'd be obliged if anyone could give me a ballpark figure on what it would take to send her home on a ship. I would imagine it's a trip of close to three weeks on her own keel.

    The boat's equipped with a twin rudder/twin tiller setup. When I did the Bermuda 1-2 in 2017, I met the emergency tiller requirement with the combination of having two of both-and showing I could keep the weather one in the water if the leeward one was gone- as well as having a backup plan of doing the old spin pole off the transom number. Would any of the kind folks who know about such things weigh in on whether or not that would meet the requirements of the SHTP?

    Am I getting ahead of myself? When I can't sail, I like to plan for sailing!

    Steve
    Note there has been a few examples of twin rudder boats losing both rudders (the design or fabrication flaw that led to one rudder failing eventually led to the second rudder failing). So though the RC might say your having two rudders is "good enough", I suggest you still bring an appropriately sized "steering drogue" - so you can get to Hawaii in the eventuality you lose both rudders. Never mind if you have much cant to your rudders, it may prove impossible to steer the boat on one tack.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    San Francisco
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by brianb View Post
    I am repeating this request here in hopes of raising some interest in assistance with managing the race.

    Hello All,

    Tentative dates for the race are a start date on or near July 3. I am making arrangements for the "Yellow" beach house once again and need to secure a reservation now.

    The house will be open for business starting July 10th, late in the day through the 25th. We can tweak the start date / time a bit as needed. Likely the start would be on Friday, July 3 to avoid a weekend conflict at the Corinthian YC.

    Volunteers for event are welcome to comment here or contact me directly. Our past team has been great but I fear some may want a break from the work load.

    Areas where help is needed:

    Pre race event planning. Hawaii and Calif.
    Inspection coordinator.
    Inspectors.
    Communications coordinator (tracker setup and assignment).
    USCG interface. Publish float plan and gain permit from USCG.
    Day of race PRO and start team.
    Weather services coordinator.
    Finish line management - two people.
    Crash boat coordinator / driver
    Finish line set up.
    Hawaii ship to shore communications organization.
    Press liaison and web page coordination.

    Regards,

    Brian
    Inspector. Happy to help. Maybe even lead Inspectors. hmmm

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    San Francisco
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sleddog View Post
    With only 10 months left to go, this SHTP 2020! thread seems a bit lonely. BB is recruiting volunteers elsewhere on the Forum. But who's in the Race fleet? Are you discouraged your heavy duty cruiser is going to be left in the dust?

    Here's less than an earthshaking idea...I ain't got no cat in this hunt.

    I would suggest to the powers that be, the 2020 RC and/or the SSS Board of Directors, a modest amendment to the SHTP Race Rules and Conditions (RRC), section 15 Ratings, a new part 15.05 that would possibly encourage potential entrants.

    This change would be to the SHTP ratings in an attempt to even things up.

    My suggestion is creating RRC part 15.05 crediting 3 sec/mi of rating handicap to any entry who certifies his/her plans are for their vessel to leave Hawaii post-2020 SHTP on its own bottom. This credit is not available to anyone planning shipping home, leaving their boat in Hawaii, or with still uncertain plans on June 21, 2020.

    The current SHTP situation favors smaller, often dry sailed boats that mostly get shipped home or are sold in Hawaii. Their bottoms, often without bottom paint, are smoother and faster, their boats are lighter as they are only sailing one way, and they generally get out of SF Bay and into the synoptic wind before the "heavies," thusly accordioning their leads.

    This amendment would have no bearing on our "Barn Door", the Jack London Trophy, for fastest elapsed time. It probably won't have any bearing on the SHTP corrected time results at all. But it might, and that would be a good thing IMO.
    hmmm
    Don't the big boats that sail home already have an advantage over the small boats in that they sleep in warm dry bunks, eat good food, and can let the autopilot drive most of the way? Seems the small boats are at a disadvantage enough without them giving up 3 more seconds... :-)

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    San Francisco
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamayun View Post
    Some things just defy reason for spending unholy amounts of time and money to pursue them. It's best not to think of the SHTP in rational terms. You'll just know it's right for you.
    Unholy amounts of money... hmmm
    Race to Hawaii with a crew... just the food bill... lodging for return crew... crew shirts... crew dinner or two... and so on. Doing it alone is relatively low cost (especially after the first time... yes this only makes financial sense if you do it a few times :-) ).

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