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Thread: The Polars Expedition

  1. #31
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    The SSS used the PacCup rating system which modifies the PHRF rating based on displacement/length ratio, etc. (I could be misquoting) even after the PacCup moved on. It was similar to the mods used for the Certified Downwind PHRF rating. Not sure if there are any mods done the last few races.

  2. #32
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    Haha! I’ve heard people say the SHTP should be called “The Olson challenge” but this puts a whole new spin on things!
    Well certainly the O30 has had more entries than most other boat designs. They certainly have not won every time they race. 2x were in the 2000 edition and they didn't fare to well.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by WBChristie View Post
    Seriously though, how are the modified SHTP ratings determined, and are they ever “adjusted”?
    This forum apparently doesn't accept Excel files as an attachment. Gary, if you send me an e-mail, I'll reply with the spreadsheet that's always been used.

    Long ago, SHTP skippers made the argument that changing the rating formula would affect their placement in the historical results. If the formula is changed, it's possible for future SHTP results to be recast using the existing formula before adding them to the historical results. But I don't know if current and future SHTP race organizers want to deal with that.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobJ View Post
    This forum apparently doesn't accept Excel files as an attachment. Gary, if you send me an e-mail, I'll reply with the spreadsheet that's always been used.

    Long ago, SHTP skippers made the argument that changing the rating formula would affect their placement in the historical results. If the formula is changed, it's possible for future SHTP results to be recast using the existing formula before adding them to the historical results. But I don't know if current and future SHTP race organizers want to deal with that.

    Thanks...my email is gary@[gcbmarineservice.com]... remove the brackets.

    As far a changing historical results, the O30 that won last year had a 3 second advantage over Bill Stange's O30 ..... so its already been done. Seems quite bizarre that a boat that has won the race multiple times gets a ratings break, but heavier displacement boats like Jim Kellams boat, a Spencer 35 has his rating dropped 37 seconds because he won the race?

    Of course the weather (rhumb line or pacific high in play) has an effect, but for instance the well sailed Crealock 37 last year hadn't a hope of winning under the current rating system, which favors lighter planing boats.

    Since I don't plan on entering again, my motives are to try and bring discussion to even the playing field for future races ... many enter this race because of its "run what you brung" Corinthian spirit type appeal and it would be sad to see more and more of the same boat being entered.

    Oh, and by the way...the current race committee sail Olsons ...coincidence? hahaha

  5. #35
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    The three second difference was probably because that Olson 30 didn't carry a #1 genoa. It's not a modification by SSS - it's in NorCal PHRF's rules.

    Many times over the years, the SSS board has stated "We don't want to get into the ratings business." Your last snide comment is a big reason why. You wonder if the SHTP ratings are ever adjusted, then in advance you suggest bias by those who would do it.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobJ View Post
    The three second difference was probably because that Olson 30 didn't carry a #1 genoa. It's not a modification by SSS - it's in NorCal PHRF's rules.

    Many times over the years, the SSS board has stated "We don't want to get into the ratings business." Your last snide comment is a big reason why. You wonder if the SHTP ratings are ever adjusted, then in advance you suggest bias by those who would do it.
    6 seconds with the genoa. Come on, lighten up.... and how were those adjustments made? By the PHRF committee?

  7. #37
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    No, it's three, and yes, that's a standard PHRF committee adjustment.

  8. #38
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    For all, NorCal PHRF recently refreshed their Rules and Regulations:

    http://www.yra.org/PHRF/docs/ncphrf_...guidelines.pdf

    (Gary's question is answered at section VII. 2. That adjustment has been the same for several years.)

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobJ View Post
    No, it's three, and yes, that's a standard PHRF committee adjustment.
    You are not following, its 6 seconds between the two 030's 96 vs 102. 3 seconds for the headsail, 3 for the motor. So the point stands, the rating is 3 seconds different between the boats, both without motor
    Last edited by WBChristie; 10-02-2019 at 05:10 PM.

  10. #40
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    Then you answered your own question. These are NorCal PHRF adjustments, not SHTP.

    Why don't you pick up a cheap Olson 30 and do the race again?
    Last edited by BobJ; 10-02-2019 at 05:18 PM.

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