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Thread: Getting Ready for SHTP 2021

  1. #241
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    Another thing to think about is shroud angle. Our masts have spreaders, right? That's because the masts are really tall, to get a higher-aspect sail. That means they have to be built, basically like a truss, with spreaders, to take the loads. To get a sail up a mast that has spreaders, means you need some sort of sail track. You can't just have grommets in the leading edge of the sail, and lash loops around the mast. How do you get those loops past the spreaders? So if possible, you want to raise a mast that doesn't need spreaders, so you can use mast loops or hoops, like an old gaff-rigged boat..

    OK, so there are lots of opinions on this next point, and I'm not a rigger, but my reading-around-the-internet suggests that 15 degrees is a pretty good angle for where shrouds intersect the mast. It shouldn't be less than 10 degrees. You can measure your 'base"...from mast base to toerail (eyeball it, if you have a boat with the mast on the cabintop), and do a little trigonometry. if the beam of your boat is 6 feet at the mast base, then the "base" of your shroud triangle is three feet. If your beam is 8 feet, then your shroud base is 4 feet. Keeping in mind that 10-15 degree guideline, how tall can your mast be? I'll spare you the trigonometry, but read what Eric Sponberg has to say here:
    https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/a...d-angle.39379/

    Here's a picture of what I'm talking about. In this picture, we're looking at the boat from directly behind the transom.

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    Last edited by AlanH; 08-28-2020 at 12:30 PM.
    1968 Selmer Series 9 B-flat and A clarinets
    1962 Buesher "Aristocrat" tenor saxophone
    Piper One Design 24, Hull #35; "Alpha"

  2. #242
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    OK, I used an online trigonometry calculator...here: http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-trigright.asp

    to figure out lengths and angles. Since the Wildcat is more like about a 7 foot beam at the base of the mast, I re-did the calculation for a shroud base of 3.5 feet. With that, I get a mast height of 19.8 feet and a shroud length of 20.15 feet.

    Well, the cabin top of the Wildcat is 1.5 feet above the deck, so if I make an 18 foot mast, put those together and I get a stick with a height almost exactly the maximum height I can use and still have acceptable shroud angles.

    IF I do that, I get a headstay length of 21.7 feet, using a J of 9.5 feet, which is the J of the S2 7.9. If I make it just a couple of inches longer, I can use that genoa that I got for the Piper, as an emergency headsail. It's very light, probably 4 oz cloth.

    So in other words, an 18 foot stick is about the maximum length I can have for a "no spreader" mast, and it's also about the maximum length that I think I can push up by myself. BINGO! Also, it so happens that my v-berth is 6' 6" in length along the hull. So three, 6-foot sections, plus the 1 -foot splines I'd use to join them, will fit nicely in the v-berth, all gorilla-taped together , and the wire bits attached as well. The S2 7.9 boom is 12.25 feet long, and ends a couple of feet in front of the transom. So once the whole thing is assembled and in place to be hoisted, only about 3-4 feet of the e-mast will hang off the back end of the boat.

    Cost? 3 sections of 3" 0.065 wall plain old non-anodized aluminum tubing at Alan Steel...$86. (half of what it cost to buy it online, and no shipping)
    two, 1 ft. sleeves to join them together $10

    Three 1/8th inch (breaking strength 1800 lbs, working 900-1,000 lbs), 20 foot long s.s. 7 x 19 cable, 20 feet long, plus swage sleeves and thimble eyes, including four Ronstan s.s. pad eyes, and some long screws for a couple of the pad eyes...$82.

    Riveting tool, and box of 5/32 aluminum rivets - $35

    Shackles and blocks.....got 'em already.
    Last edited by AlanH; 08-28-2020 at 01:03 PM.
    1968 Selmer Series 9 B-flat and A clarinets
    1962 Buesher "Aristocrat" tenor saxophone
    Piper One Design 24, Hull #35; "Alpha"

  3. #243
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    More information than anybody ever wanted to read.

    Hopefully, it'll never get deployed and I'll get the stuff back to SF somehow after the SHTP, and the sail will get used on the Piper, which is what I bought it for.

    The aluminum and s.s. cable will make a dandy, if a bit overkill, mast for the Caravelle Dinghy, for which I have plans from AZsailor.
    1968 Selmer Series 9 B-flat and A clarinets
    1962 Buesher "Aristocrat" tenor saxophone
    Piper One Design 24, Hull #35; "Alpha"

  4. #244
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    aaaaannndddd.. word from the shop is that the old battery is still good. woooo!
    1968 Selmer Series 9 B-flat and A clarinets
    1962 Buesher "Aristocrat" tenor saxophone
    Piper One Design 24, Hull #35; "Alpha"

  5. #245
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    Thanks for the additional comments. It is always nicer to read them directly rather than speculate.

    With regard to the contingency mast / sail holder, a mast step of some sort make mast raising easier. The Moore 24 and Mair 28 (with a deck stepped express 27 spar), both had hinged mast steps. If you bought one from Ballenger Spars the budget would be impacted.

    The Mair mast went down forward because the daggerboard extended a foot or so through cabin top when the boat was on trailer. When dry sailed, the daggerboard was always going up and down. Thank goodness for multiple part block and tackle and winch for 900 pound daggerboard.

    The Moore mast drops rearward.

    In both instances, a restrained mast step is a key.

    The Lightning had a bottom stepped mast, so even though mast was lighter and shorter, the effort to hold it vertical (especially with any breeze), made the operation dicey.

    All my observations are based on a parking lot that doesn't move. Not the case with the Pacific Ocean.

    Ants

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntsUiga View Post
    Thanks for the additional comments. It is always nicer to read them directly rather than speculate.

    With regard to the contingency mast / sail holder, a mast step of some sort make mast raising easier. The Moore 24 and Mair 28 (with a deck stepped express 27 spar), both had hinged mast steps. If you bought one from Ballenger Spars the budget would be impacted.

    The Mair mast went down forward because the daggerboard extended a foot or so through cabin top when the boat was on trailer. When dry sailed, the daggerboard was always going up and down. Thank goodness for multiple part block and tackle and winch for 900 pound daggerboard.

    The Moore mast drops rearward.

    In both instances, a restrained mast step is a key.
    Absolutely. My plan is to embed a 2.85 inch radius cylindrical hunk of wood in the bottom of the lowermost section, cleverly round off the back of it and drill it to take the bolt that goes through the mast step. Oh...and have an extra bolt, just in case. If the mast step itself is completely destroyed, then I'm gonna have a problem. I could get a simple hinged mast step fabricated, but there are limits, here.

    The Lightning had a bottom stepped mast, so even though mast was lighter and shorter, the effort to hold it vertical (especially with any breeze), made the operation dicey.

    All my observations are based on a parking lot that doesn't move. Not the case with the Pacific Ocean.

    Ants
    Absolutely. If the seas are up, the plan is to retrieve everything possible from the wreckage, lash it down on deck and cut away the rest. Then I close the hatch and go below and wait for things to quiet down a bit. I remember hand-holding and pushing up the Cal 20 mast at the dock. A Cal 20 mast is about 24 feet tall. It was NOT easy.

    But all of this is hypothetical. I have the rigging wires made, now. I'm sailing all weekend FINALLY...testing the emergency rudder and testing the backed- heavy-weather-jib-to-tiller-counterbalanced-by-surgical-tubing self steering as advocated by Andrew Evans. I haven't sailed in two and a half months, I've just been working on the boat. Now I test everything and remember how to do it!

    I start watching NOAA offshore weather Wednesday or Thursday. It's been very light out there.
    1968 Selmer Series 9 B-flat and A clarinets
    1962 Buesher "Aristocrat" tenor saxophone
    Piper One Design 24, Hull #35; "Alpha"

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanH View Post
    If the mast step itself is completely destroyed, then I'm gonna have a problem.
    I'm wondering if a masthead knot could be used on the butt end of the mast in that eventuality?
    The Sea is my Church; the Boat is my Pew.

  8. #248
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    I cleaned and organized for hours today, but finally got out on the water about 5:45 PM. I successfully deployed and used the emergency rudder. There is video, but i shot it on my iphone and I have no way to edit it, or upload it to anything that anybody else can see. This crap used to be so easy....not any more. I hate Apple.

    Maybe tomorrow, with the Android.
    1968 Selmer Series 9 B-flat and A clarinets
    1962 Buesher "Aristocrat" tenor saxophone
    Piper One Design 24, Hull #35; "Alpha"

  9. #249
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    A lot of today was spent running back and forth to West Marine, who miraculously, actually had what I needed. There were THREE trips because of course, problem #2 doesn't surface until you did the shopping trip for problem #1, and problem #3 doesn't appear until you did the shopping trip for problem #2. So anyway, the second battery is in, the autopilot wiring has been double checked, new 10A fuses are on board and blccch... the port cockpit locker hasp has been replaced. Don't ask. Anyway, I got out for about 2 1/2 hours of sailing, all done with the emergency rudder. Conditions varied from benign beam reaching to moderate close reaching to about 35-40 minutes to windward in 15+ knots with a moderate south bay chop. The Autohelm ST2000 drove it just fine.


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    I also tried the "storm jib backed to tiller, counterbalanced by surgical tubing" system as promulgated by Andrew Evans. What I set up today is shown about 42 seconds in...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PY1qx3PfUS0&t=213s

    He's not the only one who shows this method.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C54DCC5EPwM&t=181s

    I don't have a storm jib, so I set up the 60% heavy weather jib on it's own wire, and hoisted that right behind the furling drum. This is a fiddly system, it will take time to get it right but even what I had managed to steer the boat in about 10-12 knots and a little bit of chop, on a slightly-higher-than-beam reach for about 20-25 minutes. I'm reasonably confident that if I had to, I could set this up (if it wasn't blowing the tops off the waves) and get it to steer the boat long enough to get a meal, or get a half-hour nap or two.


    Everything seems solid.
    1968 Selmer Series 9 B-flat and A clarinets
    1962 Buesher "Aristocrat" tenor saxophone
    Piper One Design 24, Hull #35; "Alpha"

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intermission View Post
    I'm wondering if a masthead knot could be used on the butt end of the mast in that eventuality?

    I'm not familiar with that. A masthead knot?
    1968 Selmer Series 9 B-flat and A clarinets
    1962 Buesher "Aristocrat" tenor saxophone
    Piper One Design 24, Hull #35; "Alpha"

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