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Thread: Getting Ready for SHTP 2021

  1. #161
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    So here's the thing, Bob...you and I sail differently, which is why you win races and I place mid-fleet!

    I will fly a spinnaker when I'm awake, and driving, like for 3-4 hours at a time, probably . The rest of the time I'll probably put a reef in the main (because it's so big, relatively speaking) and wing out a jib. I MIGHT actually make a really heavy 120% nylon high-clew runner. I have no intention of flying a spinnaker at night, or while I'm sleeping.

    On my Ranger 29, a Navik windvane steered the boat, more or less nonstop to Hawaii in 16 days and change.
    On the SC 27, the Navik pendulum oar self-destructed, or hit something and blew up, on about day five, so I used an ST1000 to get most of the rest of the way to Hawaii. it died about three days out, and the backup ST2000 got me the rest of the way there. 17 days. Actually, in 2008 it was so light the first couple of days that I used the ST1000 and it drove the SC27 just fine.

    I think it would be foolhardy to go out there with one Raymarine autopilot. It might be foolhardy to go out there with TWO Raymarine autopilots and nothing else. But THREE self-steering devices, I'm less worried.

    You know, look back at the archives...back in '98, what did people use to get to Hawaii?

    https://www.latitude38.com/features/sss1998.htm

    http://www.josephoster.com/sss/transpac98/entries.html ... some of these list the self steering setups they had.

    Mike Dranganis, Ericson 30+ Steering: primary: Monitor windvane; secondary: Navico autopilot.
    John Guzzwell used a Hydrovane... you'll remember this image: https://www.sfbaysss.net/archive-sht...ed_species.jpg

    The General, Ken Roper on his Finn Flyer 31 -Steering: primary: Autohelm 4000 (he has three!); secondary: Navico 5500, 300C and 2500. Those Navico pilots are directly comparable to the Simrad and ST2000

    Bruce Nesbit, Olsen 34... Steering: primary: Sailomat 601 windvane; secondary: Autohelm 2000, Tillerpilot 2500



    In 2000, you can review the skippers and their equipment here: https://www.sfbaysss.net/archive-sht...phy/index.html

    Let's review boats that on on the same size range as the Wildcat...
    Terry McKelvey, Cal 2-27... Steering: split equally between Monitor windvane ("an antique one that's been to Hawaii three times now so it sure knows the way") and two Autohelm 2000 autopilots.

    GW Grigg, SC 27 "Steering: self (50%), Navico TP300 (50%) and "strings and bungie cord" if all else fails. "...the Navico TP300 is now the Simrad TP35, a typical self-contaned tiller pilot

    Ben Mewes on his Black Soo..Steering: primary: self; secondary: Three Navico 4000 autopilots.
    and so on. The Navico 4000 is a much beefier animal than the st2000, for sure.

    Mark Deppe, who won in 2002, had a monitor on his J-120

    Here's a photograph of some guy we both know, going out the Gate on his boat in 2008, and I do believe that's a windvane on the back of his boat!

    Last edited by AlanH; 06-01-2020 at 09:57 PM.
    S-2 7.9: "Wildcat of Loch Awe"
    1968 Selmer Series 9 B-flat and A clarinets
    1962Buesher "Aristocrat" tenor saxophone
    Piper One Design 24, Hull #35; "Alpha"

  2. #162
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    You know what draws me to autopilots is the redundancy. I want my boat to get me to Hawaii when the entire electrical system goes tits-up. TOTAL failure of the electrical system...

    ....but the handheld, battery powered GPS's aren't linked to the electrical system.
    the autopilots fail, but that windvane keeps working.
    the running lights fail, but that blinking strobe halfway up the backstay is wired to a big 12v lantern battery in a plastic bag.
    The two cabin lights that run on AA batteries don't fail.

    The whole flippin electrrical system can up and DIE and I will still get there in decent time.

    I've had a shorted out alternator drain my electrical system. I really liked that windvane.
    S-2 7.9: "Wildcat of Loch Awe"
    1968 Selmer Series 9 B-flat and A clarinets
    1962Buesher "Aristocrat" tenor saxophone
    Piper One Design 24, Hull #35; "Alpha"

  3. #163
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    I haven't ever seen that photo of Skip under the bridge. It is wonderful! Who took it?

    and Alan? Regarding electronics and the windvane? DM and I aren't going across that ocean, but we are in agreement about everything you said there.
    Last edited by Philpott; 06-01-2020 at 10:09 PM.

  4. #164
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    Maybe Skip will chip in here and let us know how much he used the windvane compared to the electric autopilot he also had aboard in 2008. He's double-handed in that photo so that was probably an earlier Pacific Cup.

    I raced against Mark in 2006 and 2008 and I recall him saying the Monitor was pretty ineffective in the light, downwind conditions we had. He used a belowdecks electric pilot. I think he had the Monitor mostly for the cruising he did and as a means to use the M-Rud, which was his emergency steering of choice.
    .
    Last edited by BobJ; 06-01-2020 at 11:03 PM.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobJ View Post
    Maybe Skip will chip in here and let us know how much he used the windvane compared to the electric autopilot he also had aboard in 2008. He's double-handed in that photo so that was probably an earlier Pacific Cup.

    I raced against Mark in 2006 and 2008 and I recall him saying the Monitor was pretty ineffective in the light, downwind conditions we had. He used a belowdecks electric pilot. I think he had the Monitor mostly for the cruising he did and as a means to use the M-Rud, which was his emergency steering of choice.
    .
    I think you're right about Marks primary self steering being the autopilot. I don't know what kind of pilot Mark used, but when I talked to him, he told me he had the windvane "in case". In some of those races in '96, '98 and so on, there were some bigger 37-40 foot cruising boats, and they seemed to consider their windvane to be their primary self-steering mechanism. Now, a Baltic 38 or a Pretorian 35 is a way different boat from the Wildcat. So is a J-120. And I'm sure not going to contend that a windvane is anywhere near as fast as a really good autopilot. But when the doo-doo fails, and I have an EV-100 controller driving a Pelagic ram with a SeaTalk N connection to a wind monitor I'll be poring through electronics installation manuals trying to figure out if the fault is in the NMEA2000 bus, or something.. If the windvane fails, I'll have a crescent wrench and a screwdriver, with some nuts and bolts or plywood in my lap. I MUCH, MUCH prefer the nuts, bolts and plywood!

    Mind y'all, I wouldn't COMPLAIN about having a working Pelagic on board, but the one I spent $800 on, never even came close to working, I wouldn't complain about having an EV-100 below-decks pilot, Just that it's $1400 - $1600

    https://www.westmarine.com/buy/rayma...ilot--14907745

    https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=3727805

    and I'm just not up for trying to figure out how to wire this and configure that and get out the voltmeter and the soldering iron to get the EV-100 head to drive the Pelagic ram, and besides.....I sold the Pelagic to Ants for $100 and now he has some spare parts.

    If I have to read the manual for more than about 20 minutes...if I have to figure out how to get various pieces of electronics to talk to each other by changing half a dozen settings, if I have to do a whole lot more than just Plug It In....I don't really want it on the boat, 'cause when it stops working at O-Dark-Thirty in 30 knots of wind, I'm NOT going to be able to figure it out.

    --------------

    Yeah, that's a Pac Cup photo of Skip and Wildflower, for sure. Must have been a windy day, too, with that little dinky jib up front!
    S-2 7.9: "Wildcat of Loch Awe"
    1968 Selmer Series 9 B-flat and A clarinets
    1962Buesher "Aristocrat" tenor saxophone
    Piper One Design 24, Hull #35; "Alpha"

  6. #166
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    The other thing abut the pic of Skip and Wildflower is that I bet that's a storm trysail bagged and lashed down by the mast! The main has three reef points!
    S-2 7.9: "Wildcat of Loch Awe"
    1968 Selmer Series 9 B-flat and A clarinets
    1962Buesher "Aristocrat" tenor saxophone
    Piper One Design 24, Hull #35; "Alpha"

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanH View Post
    That's WILDFLOWER at the start of the 2000 Pacific Cup..Crew is Viola Nungary, a Moore-24 skipper from Tahoe and still a best friend.

    Just visible on the port side of the mast, in a white bag, is the working staysail hanked to a removable staysail stay that could be quickly taken forward, secured, and hoisted. Also visible just aft of the starboard chainplates is a removable running backstay held away from the mast with shockcord.

    The upper shrouds (V1's) had 7' PVC rollers which eliminated chafe on the jib sheets and speeded tacking by helping both the overlapping jib and its sheets to smoothly pass around.

    In WF's first ocean race, the '77 SH Farallones Race, we went to windward in 30-35 from the Gate out to the Farallones with the working staysail and a double reef only. Coming home with single reef, I set the #2 (117%) hanked on the headstay, and reached home with double head rig, winning on corrected time. MERLIN, with Bill Lee at the helm for 7 odd hours, was F2F in this, her first race also.

    Visible in above photo is "that hanky" the #4, 75% jib, used upwind any time the TWS was > 18. I'd chainsawed off 3 inches of WF's lead keel, and we had a rather stumpy rig for offshore work.

    Visible on the starboard side of the mast in the orange bag is a Pete Sutter trysail attached with slides to its own track that went to the spreaders. To set the trysail required lowering the main, switching the main halyard to the trysail, and hoist away. Less than a minute.

    The bags on the front end of the black boom hold the 1&2 reef outhaul tails. The #3 reef had a tracer line from the clew of the #1 reef, and the #1 reef clew line was untied and used for the #3 reef

    By my right knee is the AH-2000. On the transom, above the stern step, is the Sail-O-Mat windvane. In the first SHTP in 1978, the Sail-O-Mat oar broke off on Day 3 due to a faulty factory weld. We (the boat and me) carried on with a Tillermaster autopilot, which at one point was washed overboard, and dragged astern on its electrical cord until retrieved. The Tillermaster was awesomely slow, but better than nothing when the boat was balanced and rest was required.

    That's one of WF's 2 solar panels. Just to its side is the flip down transom ladder. The ladder can be released by a person in the water with a tripline. This ladder and the Lifesling ending up saving a life when rescuing a skipper overboard and separated from his Moore-24 in a 2002 race off Santa Cruz.

    The only varnish is the laminated Kauri tiller, a pleasure to grip with its big diameter.

    Singlehanded, offshore, I would use the windvane 90%, almost exclusively when the TWS was >10 knots. In <10 knots I would use the tillerpilot or handsteer. Neither could steer this IOR "lead dog" hull shape under spinnaker in TWS >18, which was fine with me, as we'd already reached our max. speed, 7.5 knots average, with the 6,000+ pound displacement hull. The windvane drag was likely .1 knot, acceptable when singlehanding.

    WF made 7 passages to Hawaii, winning the Pac Cup in 2002 and SHTP in 2008. We were denied entry into the Los Angeles to Honolulu Transpac. "Too slow," they told me, despite TPYC's first attempt at encouraging doublehanding.

    The engine, installed in 1981, was seldom, if ever, run for charging. It could be hand cranked to start. I prefer the quiet sound of the sea hissing past the hull rather than the "whir/whar" of the AP and diesel exhaust while charging the battery. That said, the boat was set up to sail with whatever steering device would get the best speed for the conditions. Singlehanded was more restful than Double Handed, where we hand steered, watch and watch, under spinnaker. Exhausting

    And no, the boat was not a Hawkfarm, but preceded that San Francisco Bay one design class. WF had a full length skeg, a solid laminate glass hull and many other custom features including a keel window and streamlined mast steps to the spreaders. When I was building the boat I was often quizzed "why are you building it so heavy?"

    "I'm going into ice," was my reply. Which we did. But that's another story.
    Last edited by sleddog; 06-05-2020 at 03:47 PM.

  8. #168
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    Thanks, for that, Skip!

    Can you explain the relationship between Wildflower and the Hawkfarms? Are the hull and deck from the same mold, but you "did it your way" when you built Wildflower? I remember that your rig was significantly shorter than the Hawkfarm rig.
    S-2 7.9: "Wildcat of Loch Awe"
    1968 Selmer Series 9 B-flat and A clarinets
    1962Buesher "Aristocrat" tenor saxophone
    Piper One Design 24, Hull #35; "Alpha"

  9. #169
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    I was thinking of your progress getting ready for 2021 while stopping at the Kennedy Meadows general store in our local mountains. Here's a digital toast to your progress!

    The Scottish style amber ale was brewed in AZ, so who knows if there are any cultural ties. The name leads to all kinds of inappropriate comments, so I will defer. Maybe Caber Lifter would have been a more cultural name.
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  10. #170
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    I saw that the Kennedy Meadows store was open! Kilt Lifter ale, oh yeah....I've knocked off many a bottle! You could do a lot worse!
    S-2 7.9: "Wildcat of Loch Awe"
    1968 Selmer Series 9 B-flat and A clarinets
    1962Buesher "Aristocrat" tenor saxophone
    Piper One Design 24, Hull #35; "Alpha"

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