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Thread: Thread for discussion of the SSS - doublehanded / singlehanded question

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntsUiga View Post
    A simple solution would be to have different courses for singlehanded and double handed boats. If the courses don't overlap, a lot of conflicts between SSS boats is avoided.
    Ants.
    +1

  2. #12
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    I don't have a dog in this fight any more, but I like the ideas here. Also, Rob's suggestion in the other thread to have the singlehanders peel off at Fort Mason has a lot of merit. Taking it a step further, why not give them a totally different course? (Edit: I see Ants just suggested this.) Then you reduce the traffic jam at Blossom, which I've experienced, and the problems that Pat pointed out making a 180 at Little Harding.

    If everyone still started together, it would be no more work for the race committee than it is now. Starts at CYC can be crowded, but the wind is usually light there so it hasn't been a big problem in my experience.

    Best wishes; I'm sure you'll all work it out. We sure don't have the same problem where I'm racing now. We had 6 starters in PSSA's Bishop Rock race last month, no doubt because it was 165 miles. This Friday we start a 190 miler. In Oceanside we're lucky if we get 10 boats out for crewed races, and the club won't even countenance singlehanding.

    Max
    Last edited by Critter; 03-02-2020 at 10:54 AM.

  3. #13
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    I think there ought to be some serious thinking about next year's Corinthian Race. I'd volunteer to meet and discuss the possibilities. I've sailed the race since its inception, been PRO multiple times, and weathered the "Corinthian" banishment when the Start/Finish moved to the GGYC (another story there). There are all kinds of possible changes that could make the race safer for everyone.
    Last edited by Wylieguy; 03-02-2020 at 10:58 AM.

  4. #14
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  5. #15
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    Dura Mater and I are rarely in the scrum, and if we find ourselves there it is accidental. However, weíve been in the SSS since 2009 and have watched the races grow and contract. Hereís a chart:

    SSS Races 2010-2020 - Copy.pdf

    As a group we have congratulated ourselves regarding the success of the Fiasco, consistently high attendance in the bay races, attention from local and even some national press. But this has all come at a price. And David, with his beautiful, carefully prepared and sleek Hedgehog, has paid it.

    Steve Katzman and I had a phone conversation yesterday. Steve has sailed on the bay for longer than I, and he always exhibits Corinthian behavior on his Express 27 Dianne. Steve is also racing director @ his yacht club on the South Shore of Tahoe. He knows how much work goes into the organization of and running of a race, albeit on a smaller scale.

    In our phone conversation Steve listened carefully and responded thoughtfully. Hereís the back and forth:

    J: How has the Singlehanded Sailing Society come to be the organizer and serve as race committee for these large fleets of doublehanders?

    S: I donít know. We thank you for doing that. I single hand the first leg of the Vallejo every year, but single-handing is not my cup of tea. The SSS is a wonderful organization and I love it. This is a sad state of affairs and Iím embarrassed IF a boat in my Express 27 fleet was the cause of this terrible situation.

    J: How often do members of these doublehanded fleets help on race deck?

    S: Rarely?

    J: What does the SSS get out of this?

    S: Entry fees. The SSS has come to be the organiser by putting on these races and allowing double handers to enter. The SSS puts on great races, the courses are distance and much more interesting then round the pins, the race committee work is good. And the entry fees are reasonable. The SSS provides lots of bang for our entry dollars. The SSS has designed a better mousetrap. ((buglight?)

    J: Yes, and we spend most of the entry fees on t-shirts and trophies, which very often, most often, no one bothers to collect.

    S: Yes, thank you again for collecting Dianneís t-shirts and awards for me.

    J: Youíre welcome. When you are out there racing, do you even consider how Dianne competes against singlehanded boats?

    S: I modify how Dianne competes against singlehanded boats. I am not racing against them, I am racing the other boats in e 27 fleet and other doublehanders competing for overall. I extend singlehanders courtesy and recognise they can't manuever as quickly as doublehanders.

    J: Why doesnít the Express 27 fleet run its own series?

    S: e 27's don't run their own series because we can buy the services of other organisations by paying entry fees. With 10 to 20 e 27's entering a regatta we have some financial clout. Organizing and running races is a lot of work.

    J: Thank you for your candidness, Steve. Iím glad we are friends.

    The Singlehanded Sailing Society doesnít have a clubhouse, we donít have a single power boat, we donít pay officers or committee members who spend hours on the race deck. We beg and borrow other Clubsí race decks. In return our singlehanded sailors are shown disrespect and their boats get smashed up by bad actors on the water. Why do we continue to do this? How is it that the Singlehanded Sailing Society has become the race organizer for entire fleets on the bay?

    Once again, I remind you here of the pertinent quote from the By-Laws of the Singlehanded Sailing Society, filed with the California Secretary of State on October 5, 1977:
    "Membership in the Society is open to all sailors and not just singlehanders. Races, however, shall all be singlehanded events."

    Why donít shorthanded sailors create a Shorthanded Sailing Society and run their own races?

    In a conversation with an SSS board member the other night, it was noted that the board alone has the right to make changes. Maybe itís time for big changes. Perhaps we can have an open, civil and constructive discussion of possible changes at the Corinthian Awards ceremony Wednesday evening March 18. Oakland Yacht Club, 7:30 pm.

    By the way.
    Do you know how much it costs to be assisted by BoatUS if your boat is bashing onto rocks in high wind? $100/foot. Yeah. Because it is considered salvage, not towing. Lucky for David and Hedgehog, Phil Delano was on the scene in five minutes. That was impressive. Under the circumstance I suppose I would just hand over my credit card and say, ďThank you!Ē And I might even mean it.

  6. #16
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    I want to be sure that my thoughts about NOT excluding doublehanders gets heard. Change? Sure... Change the starting sequence? Sure. Change the course? Sure. Disallow the SSS races as "counters" in other One Design Class seasons? Sure. But the world is moving to more and more "shorthanded" stuff and the truth is that most folks will want to go two-up. It's a "place" where the SSS can have an effect. That said, I hate to see the Singlehanders, which is where our "roots" are, marginalized in any way.

    Also, we all know that a big wind hole and "re-start" will scramble the best-laid starting sequence plans of the RC. So while I like the idea, it's not without drawbacks.

    I think Bob mentioned the idea of having consecutive races.... Singlehanded one day, Doublehanded the next. That's a possibility as well.

    One thing, though.... I, for one don't care if the SSS can brag about how big our races are. I think the SSS does a service to the overall sailing/racing community by putting on the Fiasco. It's our "come out and play during the Winter" thing, and that's great. It's been the SSS's "thing" for many years and that's good. The 3BF is just a quirky thing, people like it, we should keep doing it.

    What I DO miss, and care about is the sense of community within the SSS that has been seriously diluted for many reasons. The Corinthian YC was open to us for dinner after the race on Saturday. That was announced here on the board. A few of the RC members stuck around, afterwards, but the "SSS Members for Dinner" was three people. .....but that's a little off-topic
    Last edited by AlanH; 03-02-2020 at 01:42 PM.
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  7. #17
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    Lets stop with the us vs them. I know is an election year but we can do better. I participate in both classes, and all singlehanders I know take pleasure from beating doublehanders even if we are not directly competing against each other. We are RACING, no? It's a matter of numbers, density of boats and conditions. Some of those are under our control, others aren't. Saturday you could have ended at the rocks with or without external influence. I saw Tri's in irons moving backwards, I myself had a bad tack that put me in irons as well (luckily it was the outside tack, but nearly on the same spot). I know many that are as competitive and aggressive whether they are single, double or fully crewed, and you normally deal with the over agressive at that at the dock, bar or protest room, ideally with some civility. This doesn't excuse the events, particularly if it could have been easily avoided through some common courtesy, but I didn't witness it so can't comment on levels of accountability. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to do better, but we need to stop with the single vs double thing.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanH View Post

    What I DO miss, and care about is the sense of community within the SSS that has been seriously diluted for many reasons. The Corinthian YC was open to us for dinner after the race on Saturday. That was announced here on the board. A few of the RC members stuck around, afterwards, but the "SSS Members for Dinner" was three people. .....but that's a little off-topic
    Hi ALan,

    Some of us put in a 20 mile round trip sail just to get to the start line. Staying for dinner is splendid, except it means getting home about 4 am. Others have various reasons to be elsewhere.

    Brian

  9. #19
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    Default Protest filings would put pressure on the participants to abide by the rules.

    Protests can be a learning tool.

    In a past experience with one design racing, over the course of several seasons, it became apparent that racers were not following rules. Protests were encouraged by the RC, and the RC itself filed protests against vessels witnessed to have been in violation of rules. The result was an immediate change in the participants understanding and careful consideration of the rules. Immediate, meaning the next race in the series was much cleaner. This would be simplified with a judging boat on the water at critical marks or locations.

    Modification of the racing rules may also be in order. What ever changes are decided should be set in the rules, as opposed to asking one group to be careful with another group at a skippers meeting that is lightly attended.

  10. #20
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    While I was the SSS Race Chair we did a mini-seminar on how to protest - notifying the other boat, the timeline in the SI's, writing it up, etc. Maybe it's time to do that again.

    In Dave's case, he didn't have enough time to look for the sail number or even confirm the type of boat. And he wrote that the other boat may not have seen him under their jib. (I think that's being generous.)

    I also agree with Brian that telling skippers to be careful won't help much. The worst offenders probably don't attend skippers' meetings.

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