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Thread: Wheel to tiller conversion and electrification

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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
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    Discovery Bay, CA
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    Default Wheel to tiller conversion and electrification

    For the last few years I have contemplated removing my steering pedestal and all the gear and going to a tiller by extending the rudder stock through the transom deck and installing an appropriate tiller.

    I have increasingly found the wheel to be more of a hindrance than a help, especially as I get older and less flexible. It is hard to move around it to go forward with my cockpit design and the ability to access sheets etc is restricted. The only real value it has is something to hold onto and something to put instruments on. There are many alternatives in that regard.

    My boat already has a port in the deck for the emergency tiller and I think the extension of the rudder stock to deck level, about 36 inches, should be doable easily enough. But I have not been able to get a handle on the method by which the rudder stock is supported and sealed as it emerges from the deck. I realize there is a flange there and that it must be waterproof or close to it, but what do you call this thing and where would one buy it?

    Is there a significant downside to such a mod? I don't care about the boat's resale value, it is a lifetime boat for me and I just want it my way. I have a interior linear drive for the AP with tiller arm attached to the rudder stock so no changes necessary with that. I would appreciate any thoughts anyone might have.

    I am also sick and tired of my diesel. I could fill the page with why, but I'll save you the long story of woe. A fellow in Seattle has converted his Freedom 30 to electric and loves it despite the decrease in range, although it is not that bad surprisingly. I am contemplating doing both projects at the same time since the electrification would impact the pedestal configuration with regard to motor controls and battery installation options down below. If I got rid of the engine, the tank, fuel, hoses, the pedestal and all the various associated bits, I would loose enough weight to offset the electric motor and a pretty decent set of Lipo4 batteries.

    Constructive thoughts anyone? I know I am crazy so you can save that post.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    448

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    What currently prevents the rudder stock from a) falling out the bottom of the boat, and b) rising up into the hull? Whatever that mechanism is you might want to keep it.

    To hold the rudder stock in position you'd put a bearing at deck level and a stuffing box above the bearing to keep the interior of the boat dry. That's a stuffing box just like you'd have on a prop shaft. You might want to remove the current upper bearing - it's difficult to keep 3 bearings in alignment as the shaft bends, much easier to let two bearings do the work and let the shaft bend in between. Which brings up a significant point - is the existing rudder stock sufficiently stiff to handle an increased distance between bearings?

    Rudder stuffing boxes from Edson:
    https://edsonmarine.com/products/sai...-stuffing-box/

    For the electric stuff, definitely talk with Greg - SoloSailor, he will have experience with this stuff.

    - rob/beetle

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    3,688

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    Kudos for considering tiller steering. I don't think I could own a sailboat with a wheel, especially for singlehanding.

    Re electric propulsion, J Boats was pushing these for awhile. I looked into getting one for Ragtime!

    https://oceanvolt.com/solutions/private/monohull/

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Saratoga
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    336

    Default

    I'm not a fan of wheels; I like to sit forward under the dodger.
    So I say rock on with that conversion.

    Now that I have a good mechanic and Berkeley Marine Center's non stinky synthetic diesel, I'd save my money there, and stay with my 2GM.

    We're all crazy on this bus.
    Last edited by Intermission; 04-12-2020 at 06:54 PM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
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    Discovery Bay, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intermission View Post
    I'm not a fan of wheels; I like to sit forward under the dodger.
    So I say rock on with that conversion.

    Now that I have a good mechanic and Berkeley Marine Center's non stinky synthetic diesel, I'd save my money there, and stay with my 2GM.

    We're all crazy on this bus.
    Berkley Marine Center's non stinky diesel? What's the deal with that? Sounds very interesting.

  6. #6
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    Sep 2008
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    Saratoga
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike cunningham View Post
    Berkley Marine Center's non stinky diesel? What's the deal with that? Sounds very interesting.
    In the Hawkfarm with a one cylinder diesel, I tried various percentages of biodiesel, and while smelling better than diesel, clogged Racor filters like no tomorrow.
    Finally, I just gave up.
    Then the Beneteau with a 2GM shows up and I try Cree's Nexdiesel, or RD99, which he sells there at the fuel dock. My engine runs great and there is very little smoke. I pay about a dollar more than at the street, but I've been using it almost exclusively for 4 years or so. Last summer going to Monterey Bay, we left with a full tank, and another 17 gallons in jugs.
    The stuff is brewed in Martinez. Cree told me not to use biocide in it, so I don't. Mixing it with conventional is not a problem, and if I don't go very far above 50/50% ratio, it still smells better downwind, then pure dinosaur.
    http://www.berkeleymarine.com/news/b...newable-diesel
    Last edited by Intermission; 04-13-2020 at 09:53 AM. Reason: Added link
    The Sea is my Church; the Boat is my Pew.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
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    Discovery Bay, CA
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    496

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    Sounds like folks think the tiller conversion is a good idea. I could probably do that for almost no dollars if I sold the steering gear for a few bucks.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Berkeley Marina
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobJ View Post
    Re electric propulsion, J Boats was pushing these for awhile. I looked into getting one for Ragtime!

    https://oceanvolt.com/solutions/private/monohull/
    The Sailing Uma youtubers just posted a video of their upgrade from home-brewed electric with shaft drive to the Oceanvolt with saildrive. Didn't look too terrifying as boat projects go. I hadn't watched their vids for at least a year prior, but assume they also documented a battery upgrade somewhere therein.

  9. #9
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    Nov 2010
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    Discovery Bay, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanikai View Post
    The Sailing Uma youtubers just posted a video of their upgrade from home-brewed electric with shaft drive to the Oceanvolt with saildrive. Didn't look too terrifying as boat projects go. I hadn't watched their vids for at least a year prior, but assume they also documented a battery upgrade somewhere therein.
    Yes, I watched part of the video but completed my treadmill walk before it finished. Going to watch the rest today.

    I do have a colleague in Seattle who owns a Freedom 30. He just completed an install using the https://electricyacht.com/ system. He is very enthusiastic about the result. He indicates his range is better than predicted using a 9.6KW bank (48 VDC x 200 AH). Slower speeds are your friend when it comes to electric propulsion. He noted the biggest challenge has been to figure out where to locate all the bits and pieces, in particular, the batteries which consist of 4 each 12 VDC 200AH Lipo4s configured in series. He still has not finalized the batt location and as a temp solution has them strapped down in the aft cabin right behind the motor. He's a tech guy who really did his research and has suffered through the learning curve on a copy my boat. He is interested in the SHTP so I regale him with sea stories (some true and some...) as I pump him for info. on the install. It is a win win. He did all the work himself and reports it was very doable for a reasonably skilled DYIer. I like the electric yacht system because it is basically turn key with exception of the shore power charger and batts.

    He mentioned I could purchase a bunch of fairly small 3 VDC cells and build up a more or less form fitting battery for whatever space is available. This requires purchase and config of a seperate battery management system but, according to him, these are available and have some decent operational heritage. I haven't looked into this much but it is pretty interesting and might solve some battery location/ boat trim challenges.

    There are some weird things regarding Lipo4 charging that he has mentioned. Assuming you discharge out sailing and return to the slip for recharge, you should not leave the charger on long term. You get the batts close to 100% and turn the charger off. Apparently Lipos don't like to be on charge 24/7 365. It seems like there would have to be a way to automate this to make the batts happy, but he turns the charger off when the batts are full. This, in turn, creates a bit of a challenge managing the 12VDC service on board. If you downconvert from the propulsion 48 volt bank , you are in the slip with charger off and your have an active load like a bilge pump, obviously you are going to have a dead battery at some point. Again, hard to believe there is not a way to address this. You can install a stand alone 12 V battery and an isolation switch but that seems pretty goofy when you have a 9.6KW bank at your beck and call. In my 20 years of owning my boat I have never had to rely on a bilge pump for other than convenience getting an inch or two of rainwater out of the boat, but you never know.
    Last edited by mike cunningham; 04-17-2020 at 01:21 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    609

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    All the battery monitoring and controlling is done via a BMS (battery management system). There are more than a few doing electric propulsion systems, shaft, sail drive, etc.

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