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Thread: Power-Assisted Sailing - the Slippery Slope

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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Default Power-Assisted Sailing - the Slippery Slope

    This thread is to put out information to the SSS members about a slippery slope that in my opinion has now become an edge of a cliff.

    This has to do with one of the US Sailing rules which is:

    52. MANUAL POWER: A boat’s standing rigging, running rigging, spars and movable hull appendages shall be adjusted and operated only by the power provided by the crew.

    I think RRS 52 is a vitally important rule as it limits the operation of a boat to the crew.

    So the slippery slope is this:

    Should the SSS allow a PHRF rated boat with partial or fully powered sail controls to race along with those that use manual power?

    I am very adamant about not racing against boats where the person doesn’t need to hoist nor physically trim the sails.

    The SSS has already allowed power-assisted devices that would break rule 52 by allowing them in our Standing Sailing Instructions for a number of years now.

    There are already boats in the fleet that use powered winches while sailing with the SSS.

    Stored energy and power assist has been out there for some time… canting keels, powered above-deck winches, etc.

    The PHRF committee has been rating boats “with” non-manual powered devices for many years. I think the benefit would be even more amplified while singlehanding vs. the fully crewed “rating” the PHRF issues.

    So the slippery slope starts with a few powered halyard winches, then jib winch and now the slope becomes a cliff ….. there is a boat entered in Saturdays Around the Rocks Race with a fully powered sail handing system.

    By fully powered I mean ALL the sail handling is power driven and controlled via a handheld remote. The below deck fuller, self-tacking jib sheet, jib-boom rotation, jib traveler, main trailer & sheet, halyards, backstay, vang, outhauls, etc. are all fully powered. The only above deck powered winch you can access and ease a control line manually is the cabin top halyard winches. There is NO WAY to manually trim or ease the sails as all single-line sheets, etc. disappear below deck to its powered winch.

    I think the SSS Mission Statement has some key works that back up my opinion and they are “fair”, “equitable” and “sportsmanlike”.

    The Singlehanded Sailing Society (SSS) was conceived to provide a forum where sailors and others interested in the sport of singlehanded sailing could share their ideas and experiences. It is the intent of the SSS to make it possible for such sailors to compete in seaworthy sailing vessels of various types and designs on a fair and equitable basis. The purpose of the races is to provide an organized arena in which ideas, equipment, designs, and vessels specifically created, built, modified, or equipped for long distance singlehanded racing may be tested and evaluated through friendly sportsmanlike competition. The development of personal skill in singlehanded sailing is encouraged through sailing events and seminars.
    My personal opinion is the SSS shouldn’t allow boats rated with powered devices to race using them but if they do they should be in their own division and not eligible for the overall trophies.

    What say you?
    Last edited by solosailor; 08-03-2020 at 07:30 PM.

  2. #2
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    May 2009
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    So I'm racing in an SSS event, up the city front. Singlehanded. In Starbuck. Tacking the 125%. Hi Scott Easom! I think you got me.

  3. #3
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    So far the power-assist isn't helping Scott in the Friday night CYC series. His line in division is 7/7, 4/6, 1/6, 3/5, and 4/6. And we're talking about Scott Easom.

    To Greg: We already had this discussion, both by e-mail with the SSS board and in person last weekend. Other than you, the skipper who ranted the most against powered winches hasn't done an SSS race in 10 years. So maybe it's not as big a concern to the majority of active racers.

    Scott apparently sees a market for these semi-automated boats. I think the J/100 is the fifth one he's done. I'd support a separate division for them, if and when they show they can beat the non-powered-winch boats. Otherwise I think it's a way to keep some folks racing who otherwise couldn't. In that way it actually levels the playing field and allows for more participation, which we need especially in the singlehanded divisions.

    I am a little surprised that Eight Ball is entered in RTR with the standard J/100 PHRF rating of 87. The PHRF meeting minutes have not been posted since January so I can't read what PHRF's logic was. I'm told that when Soozall (King 40) did a full powered conversion, PHRF hit its rating 19 seconds/mile.

    Finally, I can't help but feel like Surprise! is a target of this. I installed a second powered winch in good faith, based on SSS's and OYRA's long-standing modification of Rule 52 allowing their use. I declared the winches on my certificate when the boat was first rated. If you successfully lobby to exclude their use, I'll probably stop racing in SSS.

    Are you racing Outsider on Saturday?
    .
    Last edited by BobJ; 08-09-2020 at 11:13 AM.

  4. #4
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    I would agree with Greg. Full powered sail controls is quite an advantage. We should at least put a star next to boats so equipped and consider an alternate scoring system.

    Brian

  5. #5
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    Then you should put a star next to the WylieCat 30s and "consider an alternate scoring system" for them as well. They also enjoy significant ease-of-operation over other boats when racing singlehanded. The advantage they enjoy in our races is well-documented.

  6. #6
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    I disagree. PHRF should adjust their (Wylie 30's) rating accordingly. They are all manual, but certainly have a great advantage with minimal sail handling. The issue PHRF would have, with a rating adjustment is similar to doing the same with a powered gear boat. How do you model , in a performance program, a vessel with reduced crew energy per mile, and reduced errors due to simplicity of operation ? The variables are too vast. If the club wants to pursue a path with the PHRF committee to alter Wylie Cats, that sounds reasonable. Boat owners should do so as well. Powered vessels need some thought before scoring begins.

    Brian

  7. #7
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    It would be great to learn the history of the introduction 1.c.iii to our SSIs. 1.c.i and 1.c.ii are very narrow in their exclusions, and iii comes along and blows up rule 52. From looking at NCPHRF there are only 2 boats with declared power winches and one of them doesn't race SSS. So again, I'm not clear of when or why the iii exclusion got added. My suggestion would be to either make iii much more narrow or create an 'unRule 52' class for folks that want to innovate and experiment outside the boundaries of the rule.

    From reviewing the PHRF rules, there is no indication on the rating impact of power assisted anything. Additionally 1.c.i and 1.c.ii have no impact on rating, but 1.c.iii assumes a third party will provide the right correction.

    An interesting discussion here about how IRC dealt with it, with some familiar names. I don't see any similar language with regards to PHRF ratings. http://archive.sailingscuttlebutt.com/news/09/0630a/

    At least the IRC rule is declarative in their allowance:
    "
    15 MANUAL POWER
    15.1 RRS 52, Manual Power, shall not apply. This Rule may be amended by Notice of Race.
    15.2 (a)The use of stored power for the hoisting of mainsails, or the reefing or furling of sails
    need not be declared.
    (b) Boats using stored power solely for the adjustment or operation of backstays shall
    declare this to the Rating Authority.
    (c)Boats using stored power for the adjustment or operation of running rigging other
    than as noted in Rules 15.2(a) & (b) shall declare this to the Rating Authority.
    "

    I could envision the SSS narrowing 1.c.iii to the equivalent of 15.2(a) of IRC and disallowing the rest. Or provide a full IRC division. There are enough IRC rated boats in the Bay to make that a better option.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travieso View Post
    It would be great to learn the history of the introduction 1.c.iii to our SSIs. 1.c.i and 1.c.ii are very narrow in their exclusions, and iii comes along and blows up rule 52.
    Since I wrote 1.c.iii let me give you my perspective. During a race last year, someone complained that a young healthy guy (relatively speaking) was short tacking up the city front using power winches. As I understood our original intent of allowing powered winches, it was to aid people as they age, who still want to race but aren't the young person they once were. So it was conceived as something that wouldn't be invoked often.

    To address this in 2020, the SSS Board approved the change to 1 c iii from the 2019 version of "Powered winches, hydraulics, or furling devices – only on boats that have declared this information on their PHRF application and have been rated accordingly. This modifies RRS 52." to the 2020 version "Powered winches, hydraulics, or furling devices – only on boats that have declared this information on their PHRF application and have received a PHRF rating that specifies allowable usage for the powered winches. This modifies RRS 52." Thus we put the onus on the PHRF committee. Thus having powered winches doesn't mean you can use them, unless your PHRF certificate specifically says this is the rating assuming you use powered winches. Since the YRA doesn't allow you to have multiple PHRF ratings, we though this would be sufficient to discourage casual powered-winch users since they wouldn't be able to race in other events where RRS 52 has not been modified, and only the few SSS-only racers who need help would apply. We did not envision a push-button-only electric boat.

    So, someone looked at our rules and lived up to the letter of them, I presume (if their certificate allows their use). Was this our intention? No. Can we stop this? Yes, if we want. Our out is NOR Rule 5.

    "5. UNUSUAL DESIGNS; INSPECTION
    The Race Committee reserves the right to inspect any entered boat, and to cancel the entry of a boat with any unusual arrangement in hull, rig, sails, ballast, or equipment that the Race Committee considers to be a potential hazard, or an attempt to violate or circumvent the intent of this document."

    Conceivably the SSS could invoke this rule and deny the entry. But that is another discussion of whether we should or not. I was shocked to learn that Sydney Hobart boats replaced many of their crew members with a 10HP diesel engine, which provides the energy used to trim all sails, move ballast, etc., and is "cheaper and lighter" than ten well-paid pro sailors. Should we stand in the way of progress? Many may have opinions that differ on this. Should satellite weather and navigation be allowed? Should boats be allowed to have supercomputers aboard calculating optimal paths from here to there? Should sloops be allowed? I know I'm going to ridiculous extremes here, but whether we chose to allow this or not should be a club decision.

    The summary is we have a means to disallow this, now we just need to decide if we should invoke that means.

    My two cents, Jim.

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