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Thread: Emergency rudder / Monitor / E-RUD

  1. #11
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    Thanks Jim! Valuable advice indeed. Funny you should mention the priority check list. Here is Elliott with my new Cal rudder from Foss last week…

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    So when that work is done, I hope thats the most likely failure addressed. I had them build with Schedule 80 rather than 40. I think that leaves the rudder tube as the weakest point and they are gusseting that. Next on the risk list (I guess) is what happens on a strike of unprotected fin/spade as well as Monitor strike. I have a question into Suzy et al. on the "GGR mods" for Monitors and also on the autopilot steering for e-rudders, which is where the thread started. I think the GGR mods probably include the stronger breakaway tubes. I have a couple of the strongest spares, but I will report back when I actually know something. Correct me if I'm wrong but rudder failures (main or pilot) seem to be the most common problem to/from Hawaii.

    I have a couple of drogues including a Shark. I watched how Triteia sailed most of the way with a drogue, you can see the pole used here https://youtu.be/JpU3Ad_1pl8?t=761 and here https://youtu.be/H7X0wwGTtM0?t=439 I have no practical experience using them offshore, but plan to get some. More practical advice greatly appreciated, I was going to keep drogues to a separate thread.
    Last edited by GBR3068; 01-03-2023 at 04:04 PM.

  2. #12
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    After my last return, I am positively enraptured by my Monitor and its capabilities. I spoke to Mike at Scanmar about the E-Rud and he says that the trick is to have weather helm if you need to use it, whereas you want a balanced boat under normal Monitor conditions. That said, I've never used the M-Rud under angry sea state and rudderless conditions. Steerage is achieved from running the E-Rud lines to the cockpit winches at which point, it is no longer a self-steering device.
    Last edited by Gamayun; 01-03-2023 at 06:20 PM.

  3. #13
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    My thinking on e-rudders is strongly influenced by being on the 2008 race, where Ruben Gabriel lost his mast about 800 miles out from Hawaii. I want to have solutions on the boat...options...I'm not sure I would trust something like a monitor as my only backup. That goes 2x over if there's no way to then make it self-steering. If it doesn't work very well, that's an awfully long way to drift, or sail where you have steer by hand 18 hours a day.
    1968 Selmer Series 9 B-flat and A clarinets
    1962 Buesher "Aristocrat" tenor saxophone
    Piper One Design 24, Hull #35; "Alpha"

  4. #14
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    Some great comments and advice from those with real experience. Thanks! Please keep them coming as I am learning a lot.

    I did start this thread with the following but I didn't include that I am changing my rudder and reinforcing steering. I do have two drogues and a pole (as used by Triteia, albeit with a full keel as opposed to fin/spade). I do have an emergency tiller and pilot for that. I do have a CPT autopilot. I have a Monitor and spare tubes. I do have three Pelagics. I do have a ram. I do want options and have some, but my main question was about the Monitor plus e-rudder option.

    >>> This post is about emergency rudders and, to narrow things down so we don't explode, the question is wrt Monitors.
    >>> A discussion in Seminar #2 ended with a question from someone considering which windvane to use: "Dont you lose self-steering if you use a Monitor emergency rudder" and the entire audience went silent. I dont know enough to debate this, but I understood the answer to be "No, you got several ways to steer including the Pelagic"
    >>> what does the crowd here say about Monitors and E-RUDs?

    I do see this at the Scanmar site https://www.scanmarinternational.com/m-rud
    Adaptable to the Pelagic Autopilot and tiller pilots for electronic autopilot steering

    I *think* the same three steering methods that are applicable to the old M-RUD, as described in https://www.scanmarinternational.com...8a13d749e3.pdf do still apply to the new e-rudder but I don't know that. I *think* the only or biggest difference between the old M-RUD and the new e-rudder is the former attaches instead of and the latter attaches over the existing water paddle, but I don't know that. I do have a question in to Mike, Suzy and Brian. Carliane just described an option to use fixed lines that I didnt know about. So clearly there's a lot I dont know! Does anyone else have experience with self-steering on the Monitor + E-rudder ?

    Be great to get an answer to that question but do please keep advice coming as it really helps me and I think maybe others too.
    Last edited by GBR3068; 01-04-2023 at 06:38 PM.

  5. #15
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    Whatever used for emergency steering wants to be tested at sea, both installation and use. In addition, your emergency steering wants to be able to get the boat to 75% speed so you can make Hanalei before deadline and get your belt buckle. Emergency steering is not just a rudder, but having worked out sail combinations and balancing. There have been boats that finished Transpac at full speed with no rudder at all, just twin jibs. RAGTIME for one. FLYING CLOUD another. The idea of towing a drogue for emergency steering is nuts in SHTP. You're gonna run low on food, water, and patience never mind all your family and friends will be gone if/when you make Kauai. My 2 cents. PS: Ruben's jury rig got him to the finish in time for a belt buckle and family.
    Last edited by sleddog; 01-04-2023 at 07:22 PM.

  6. #16
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    It's worth considering that drogues work by slowing the boat down. A LOT.

    I was on board Surprise! when Bob J tested drogues at the 2020 self-steering seminar. Bob is a good sailor, he's got a nice boat, he'd thought everything through and the results were, shall we way, less than hoped.

    I don't know what kind of boat you have but IMHO I would always opt for getting some kind of foil in the water, attached to something that an autopilot can wiggle back and forth.
    But that's just me.

    I also have in mind Rob MacFarlanes race in about '98 or thereabouts. On the way over, he hit something that jammed his very nice and solid rudder over at about 30 degrees off of fore-aft. In a situation like that, I seriously doubt that a drogue will steer a boat. Also, if you have a foil and it's 1/3rd the size of the primary rudder, it's not going to be able to compensate for that off-axis jam. Think about the size of your main rudder and the size of the Monitor e-rud. If y'all haven't seen this, here you go.

    https://www.bluemoment.com/emergencyrudders.html

    Here is a photo of Rob's current setup on "Big Beetle" Note that it's a cassette system. "Tiger Beetle" is an old converted one tonner.

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    Anyway, I know that's off the exact topic of whether the EMRUD will suffice as self-steering. It should be noted that plenty of SHTP'ers have had it on board and claimed it as their backup rudder and passed inspection. It also must be said that you simply cannot plan for every single imaginable contingency. Something COULD happen that will screw you up. You plan and plan and come up with solutions and build them/buy them and test them, but in the end you have to accept that it's possible that something horrific could go wrong and there won't be much of anything you can do about it.
    Last edited by AlanH; 01-05-2023 at 10:22 PM.
    1968 Selmer Series 9 B-flat and A clarinets
    1962 Buesher "Aristocrat" tenor saxophone
    Piper One Design 24, Hull #35; "Alpha"

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