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Thread: Updates to 2023 NOR

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by dolfinbill View Post
    Hi Carliane, It's just so nice to see you back in the SSS.

    DolfinBill
    Crealock 37
    Hey Bill, thanks. It's so nice to hear from you! I read something about you recently and it brought back many lovely memories of our race together and how kind you were to me. I'm still in the Oakland area if you and Patty are ever up this ways.
    Last edited by Gamayun; 01-04-2023 at 07:58 PM.

  2. #32
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    Thanks to Pressure Drop who just posted this to their Facebook page. It is a DSC trial at OYC in 2014 with USCG reps that occured before BAMA's doublehanded Farallons race. It's not too long and might have useful tips. https://vimeo.com/89669435

  3. #33
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    Hi Carliane!

    >> Keep 'em coming but maybe split up your questions into smaller doses. See below responses in red.

    Wilco. Question #3 was on safety and DSC and that may warrant a thread of its own so I dont want to clutter this thread up with all the material that I waded through to learn about DSC. The link you posted from the USCG lecture on DSC to DH Farallones is good because it lets you hear the warbling tone of a DSC distress call. Some of the information may be out-of-date especially wrt relay. I'm no expert here, not even close, but for example the UK changed their relay procedures, I'm still not sure about the US. So I'm still figuring things out, but it sure would be great to have a USCG lecture again. I learned the most about DSC the fastest from these short videos and they may be useful to others too:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBIkdQ2QAvM VHF DSC Distress Mayday
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chvK9HDGtCY VHF DSC Training Part 2

    I can include the other practical DSC references that I found useful in another thread but I think the "authority" on DSC operation is here: https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r...0-I!!PDF-E.pdf with an abbreviated USCG version here https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/dsc-distress

    Anyway the point of your thread was NOR and SI and I do think it might be a good idea for everyone to have DSC radios and consider including that in the race documents.
    Last edited by GBR3068; 01-05-2023 at 03:47 PM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by GBR3068 View Post
    I do think it might be a good idea for everyone to have DSC radios and consider including that in the race documents.
    The requirement for DSC/GPS equipped VHF radios has already been addressed in the YRA/OYRA equipment requirements for offshore racing. For Bay racing, there’s really no need to add a requirement for yet ANOTHER piece of equipment.

    Aside from the emergency/distress call function, I wonder if anyone reading this has ever placed a DSC radio call? I suspect not.
    Tom P.

  5. #35
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    Yes, 3.81 and 3.82 of http://yra.org/wp-content/uploads/20...anges-2021.pdf specifies DSC and 7.4 of Singlehanded Sailing Society 2023 General NoR DRAFT 0.9.8 of 2022-12-29.pdf thus requires DSC but 7.3.11 only requires a VHF radio (I do not know why YRA SER 3.9 wrt AIS was removed?). I think most new VHF radios have DSC so not sure why it would be another piece of equipment. Compared to the costs of other life-saving equipment and a boat, a $100 DSC radio seems like a good deal. For some reasons to have DSC, see for example https://wow.uscgaux.info/content.php...adio-rescue-21 and West Marine https://www.westmarine.com/west-advi...Equipment.html "DSC is like 911 for your boat—better in fact, because rescuers have the technology to determine exactly who and where you are, and sometimes the exact nature of your emergency."

    Maybe whoever the powers that be were that architected DSC could perhaps have done a better job, but DSC is here now and it definitely alerted me in one race that there might be a problem. To me 99% of the value of DSC is in the distress call, the "red button". I have heard of many situations where the CG has advised someone on a Ch. 16 call to "go ahead and press your DSC", it gives them location. I have tried a DSC call and my B&G Zeus3 is supposed to be able to just call a target via a pop-up using DSC but for some reason this does not work with the V20, though it may with the V60. One thing I could see being useful down the road is forming a group call number for a racing fleet and RRC though.

    I suppose like other proposed changes it happens slowly as people see the benefit and it will become more of a requirement, and it would be good to hear what the USCG thinks. Meanwhile I think from what I read that the USCG feels the biggest problem is making sure that people that choose to or are required to have DSC know how to use it including getting and using an MMSI. I guess that was my original comment: I was surprised that a whole fleet that I think must have had DSC radios according to the rules missed a DSC distress call.

    Anyway, my main focus was to help Carliane was trying to explain what I learned as a newbie and would have been useful to see in the race documents.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by GBR3068; 01-05-2023 at 10:31 PM.

  6. #36
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    Thanks for the comments on the DSC. We have no plans of adding any equipment requirements, but this gives me some really useful ideas about possible future seminars or info that could go in presentations for the skippers' meetings.

    My own thoughts on the topic: It was my understanding there had been a new regulation requiring all new VHF radios to be DSC-capable, but I bought a handheld about 6 months ago from Svendsen's that was not. It has been relegated to my small boat that stays in the estuary. All my radios on the big boat have DSC, especially if I have inexperienced sailing friends onboard. Our safety talk includes telling them to press/hold the red button, speak with CG, and then sail the boat safely until someone can help. I keep a VHF on my person and plan to do the same if I am in the water.
    Last edited by Gamayun; 01-06-2023 at 01:39 PM.

  7. #37
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    Attention, SSS Racers!

    The board has reviewed the manual winch vs powered winch policy introduced a few years ago. With benefit of that experience, and based on consideration of the PHRF rating penalties for "power winch" and "power assist" boats, the board has decided to simplify the classes and remove the power distinction.

    The NOR has been revised to reflect this --- see attached. Changes are highlighted in yellow.

    Please double check that your PHRF certificate accurately states any powered winches or power-assist features of your boat, to avoid being protested for violating the "class rules" of PHRF.

    Thank you for racing with the SSS, and we look forward to seeing you on the water in 2023.

    Richard and Carliane, SSS Race Co-Chairs

  8. #38
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    I thought the members voted on this prior? Why was there no new vote? NOR was issued on the 2nd and now this change without any member input or time to respond.
    Last edited by solosailor; 01-11-2023 at 01:44 PM.

  9. #39
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    The board has received survey responses from members on the question of power winches, and has been receiving input from members via emails and personal interactions on this topic. It is in response to these inputs, and the board's desire to continue the assessment of the effects of power winches and the PHRF rating adjustments on shorthanded racing, that the SSS board voted this week to accept the PHRF rating adjustments and monitor the results for the 2023 season. We will of course review this decision based on the results when considering the NOR's for the 2024 season.
    Chris Case, Commodore SSS

  10. #40
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    Well it seems the board has made the decision but I'll leave some comments regarding this announcement. I know things never come out less than terce on a forum vs. personal interactions and I know we have very dedicated board members so I'm not trying to bash anyone and my apologies if it comes out that way.

    I've been racing with the SSS since the mid-90s and have been racing full seasons basically ever since, rarely missing a race though the ownership of 3x different boats. I care very deeply about the SSS and her participants. I relish the competition and continue to learn from her vast diverse membership of sailors and boats.

    The board has received survey responses from members on the question of power winches
    As I didn't see any survey I'm thinking it wasn't a complete survey of active members like the last round.

    has been receiving input from members via emails and personal interactions on this topic.
    Well as many of us thought this was put to rest with a member survey/vote, we didn't know we should still be active lobbying.

    the board's desire to continue the assessment of the effects of power winches and the PHRF rating adjustments on shorthanded racing
    The thing is the PHRF rating penalty is for CREWED boats vs. CREWED boats. Never have they considered the effects of using a powered winch on single or doublehanded race boats where the effect of such use is greatly amplified.

    For me and many who have spoken to me about the subject it has little or nothing to do with the amount of rating penalty applied. It has to do with manually sailing your boat to the best of your abilities as racing sailboats is a sport. If you are using power winch(s) you are not fatiguing through the race as you would without one/them. Pushing buttons while others work the winches manually is not fair sailing and I believe very bad for the sport of sailing in the long term.

    Another slippery slope this brings is the fiscal arms race. Some people will have a single cabin house winch that came with their boat and some will spare no expense and spend tens of thousands of dollars.

    I still advocate for people being able to race with powered winches if they so choose but they should still be in their own division of like boats.

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