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Thread: Updates to 2023 NOR

  1. #11
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    Sep 2007
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    My US Sailing Race Management Handbook is >10 years old and I can't find the reference now, but my recollection is that comments like your educational notes are discouraged. I did find this: "A notice of race is a rule as defined in the RRS. This means that boats that do not comply with a requirement of the notice of race can be protested."

    You don't want to be vague about anything, so instead of your Educational note in 7.3.12 perhaps write something like "Boats shall carry alternate means of propulsion sufficient to comply with 12.1 herein."

  2. #12
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    Jan 2013
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    Montara, CA
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    These are all great comments and being taken under consideration. I would have thought there might be more than two people who might weigh in. Does this mean the rest of you have read, understand, and support the draft NOR? Feel free to leave a 'yes, no, still reading it' comment. Would love to hear from everyone. Pull up the old NOR, and do a side-by-side, if that might help. We had suggested a deadline by tonight but happy to get everyone's input. Surely no one is driving in the rain to watch fireworks tonight (well, I might be, but only as far as the Jack London waterfront a mile down the road). Happy New Year!

  3. #13
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    Jan 2013
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    Montara, CA
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    It would be especially nice to hear from newbies or those who might be considering shorthanded racing for the first time. Please consider this a safe space for your thoughts.

    ~~ Carliane

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    3,156

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    Happy new year, Carliane! From the photo you posted I assumed you were in Mexico or Hawaii. Thanks for taking on this responsibility. I have nothing to add. Now I'm going to brew some strong coffee, gotta watch Skip's thread, win that book about George and Robert.

  5. #15
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    Jan 2013
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    Montara, CA
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    It was Cayucos. Not too far for a few days' respite. Happy New Year, Jackie!! I hope you win the book.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Location
    Palo Alto
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    >> It would be especially nice to hear from newbies or those who might be considering shorthanded racing for the first time. Please consider this a safe space for your thoughts.

    Hi Carliane: Newbie here and as such I am very hesitant indeed to jump into a group discussion that has hundreds of years of cumulative experience behind it, but you basically asked me to comment and thus I feel a sense of owing something to my new playground. I don't really have any opinions that are worth anything, but just wanted to point out some things I found in case it was in any way useful.

    1. I had a hard time with reconciling safety wrt rules on communication and weather forecasting offshore so I did a lot of searching on these issues when I first started. It seemed strange to me that its OK to hire a plane to scout the weather but not OK to get the best forecast you can if bad weather is approaching. I found the following site useful and when I was researching I found these references that may be relevant to the discussion on right-of-way, they helped me and in fact I found them before the above issues on safety and right-of-way came up: https://www.racingrulesofsailing.org/cases/1098 and also this: https://www.racingrulesofsailing.org...an%20francisco I am really nervous about the tankers, fishing boats and ferries.
    2. I also was unfamiliar with COLREGS and the amalgamated rules so spent some time looking at those as well. I have https://www.amazon.com/Navigation-Ru.../dp/1937196232 but also use this online site https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/navigati...es-amalgamated and with my limited experience I think I understand Rule 18(b) in combination with Rules 9, 10, and 13. FWIW my simple dumb naive newbie view of all this, my interpretation if you like, is (act like) "Commercial traffic has right-of-way in San Francisco Bay". Sort of like pedestrians may have right of way on crosswalks but really the bus does.
    3. I have seen many well-intentioned attempts to simplify and explain complex laws and it always seems to end badly. For me any examples, pictures, simple language always helps, but I realize the problems that (with what I call) normative versus non-normative language can cause.
    4. To me safety overrides everything. So, to me, it would make sense to have some sort of rule where you could do whatever you need to avoid danger without a penalty that might cause you not to do so. So, even if that might mean self-policing, I think such a rule make things safer. I dont think that is a popular view though.
    5. I clearly am not qualified to get into this but I realized I do have a WinchRite on board. PO bought it. I don't think it is even charged right now, I don't like it, and I don't use it, but its there. I also have a bi-square bit and a Makita drill. I hadn't even thought about it. Anywho doesn't the handicap system measure the advantage of X and deduct for X, so isn't there already a mechanism for allowing for folks using stuff? I guess thats the point above.
    6. I was going mention the following at the meeting where the SSS survey results were discussed but it felt out of place. In my windsurfing days we sort of let the racing overrule the club and social aspects of things and new joiners, which we desperately needed, would come in and see a lot of protests, the seriousness of racing and leave. We ended up with races at STFYC without enough people to race. I totally get that people love to race to strict rules, but if it gets too serious the danger is you wont have anything left. All the rules and notices can get a bit confusing and not long ago I didn't even know what PHRF was let alone what a certificate was. i'm sure I am breaking rules I don't even know about and I'm absolutely sure I don't really understand all the rules. Again, I don't have an answer. Hope I dont upset anyone or get flamed. I just like having this group and hope it doesnt go away any time soon.

    Happy New Year

    Mike/EOS
    Last edited by GBR3068; 01-01-2023 at 06:12 PM.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
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    Montara, CA
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    Hi Mike, welcome to the SSS! I see you're thinking about doing the SHTP. That's fantastic. All the best on your preparations. Tiger Beetle was a lifesaver for me when I was provisioning in Hanalei and I couldn't get a patch to hold on my dinghy. I still owe him at least a case or two of Mountain Dew.

    Thank you so much for your thoughts on the NOR. Those are interesting links you posted, too. Safety on the water and not getting sideways with COLREGS are often one and the same but must be top of every skipper's decision-making process. For the Educational Note on alternate means of propulsion, *we* decided to use the language that Coast Guard has in its permit in which we are to remind all racers that parts of San Francisco Bay and adjacent waterways are considered "narrow channels or fairways." Racers are not exempt in these areas nor from following Rule 9 of the Navigation Rules, which prohibits interference with vessels that can only navigate within these areas. Therefore, SSS strongly encourages racers to have a motor as an alternate means of propulsion.

    On the subject of power winches, I don't think a Winch Rite counts, err....unless you're using it while racing and not claiming it on your PHRF, which is really the issue, right? I have no idea how the YRA might count the Winch Rite in its handicapping. For the SSS NOR, the board is going to consider the issue further and make a decision on whether to change the NOR language.

    As to the SSS itself, after more than 40 years in existence, I don't think it will be going away anytime soon -- as long as there continues to be a functioning board and active members who care. Money in the coffers helps, too

    Another note of interest, I have just set up a camera system on my laptop that is going to provide live streaming and a recording of the TBF of the start/finish line. It also has a box in the viewing screen that shows the NIST clock so we can match up everything. I'm super excited to test it out in the field, but it looks like it's going to work great. Now I just need someone to be my backup and make sure that I actually press the "record" button on race day!

    *we* is not just Richard and me as co-chairs this season, but the SSS board who provided important edits and comments on the NOR, particularly related to matters of SSS policy. I'm just the forum messenger.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Bodfish, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamayun View Post
    Hi Mike, welcome to the SSS!

    Another note of interest, I have just set up a camera system on my laptop that is going to provide live streaming and a recording of the TBF of the start/finish line. It also has a box in the viewing screen that shows the NIST clock so we can match up everything. I'm super excited to test it out in the field, but it looks like it's going to work great. Now I just need someone to be my backup and make sure that I actually press the "record" button on race day!

    *we* is not just Richard and me as co-chairs this season, but the SSS board who provided important edits and comments on the NOR, particularly related to matters of SSS policy. I'm just the forum messenger.

    It is not often that I can comment on why the Three Bridge Fiasco has been very successful for four decades or thereabouts. The efforts of the SSS race committee are the key. The number of 3BF race participants has grown immensely. The volunteers on the SSSRace committee have responded with solutions.

    Bless each and every one of them.

    Ants

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
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    Montara, CA
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    Thanks, Ants. We couldn't do it without racers who show up and participate whether that be on the water, the forum, meetings, socially, phone calls, or whatever the venue. Keep it up! Big hugs to all

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    572

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    RE: 4.10

    I would hope that if there is an error made and it is caught after the race that one would be able to correct this before season end? If not it seems a harsh penalty to lose a season championship for a single character out of place.

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