N/M 45 Tiger Beetle
I disagree. A 'PRB' (never heard of it, I assume you meant PLB) has a tiny little antenna that may or may not be above the water at any given moment; by way of comparison, consider this selection chart of ACR EPIRB's and ask yourself, which one has the tallest antenna and the most robust battery?Originally Posted by AlanH
http://www.pyacht.com/ACR-EPIRB-Selection.pdf
- rob/beetle
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
Jonathan, that looks ideal for what we're talking about (to keep attached to you or in a ditch bag). $212 (at Defender) seems a bargain for what you're getting. I've had a HX460S for 8 years and it has done everything I needed it to - they're great radios.
Rob, that chart at PYacht is helpful. It looks like the AquaFix PLB has an integral GPS and it floats. I would still prefer a true EPIRB for the boat but if someone was intent on having a PLB in addition, that looks like a possibility. I'll try to find a downloadable brochure to see how the antenna works. I borrowed (re-registered) a McMurdo "FastFind Plus" 3-4 years ago. It had a flimsy, folding antenna that had to be kept upright, and it was supposed to be "set level, preferably elevated on a rock" when transmitting - a bit disconcerting in a MOB scenario.
Last edited by BobJ; 04-10-2009 at 11:10 PM.
Desert Ratfox
Bob, I have an AquaFix PLB. I think it has a decent antenna - it's a cupped ribbon (like a tape measure) that wraps around the perimeter of the case. As I recall (haven't looked at it since last season), when you take the unit out of its carrier the antenna springs free, then you have to rotate it so it's pointing upward.
On the other hand, they advise holding the unit face up so that the GPS antenna (internal) gets a good view. That could be a bit awkward if you're bobbing in the water.
Max
20 - 49 posts
It seems like there are a couple of situations to consider: (1) I'm on the boat and it's sinking (or I'm in the life raft after gathering my gear in an orderly fashion), and (2) I'm in the water and the boat is sailing away on its own.
In the first situation the EPIRB is obviously the right solution offshore, and perhaps the EPIRB with handheld VHF if near shore. In the second situation I think I'd opt for the PLB. Rob, given your estimate of the range of a handheld VHF wouldn't the PLB be the better choice for "on my person" gear for the second scenario? (all assuming singlehanded sailing). True, the VHF might raise another passing boat, but that only works if the other boat is monitoring the radio and can then find you. The Coasties seem like the safe bet.
I find it informative that the recent Heatwave crew ended up losing both their handheld and their light before final rescue. Perhap's John's strings and tethers are worth considering. What type of response would have resulted if the guys were both in the water and were unable to use the capsized boat as a platform to get the radio antenna up above the waves?
Richard
Libations Too
N/M 45 Tiger Beetle
Hi Richard -
To paraphrase Haulback, the only reason to wear a life jacket while singlehanding is to have something to strap the pistol to - cause that's what you'll want after falling over board in the middle of the Pacific. Much better to have a harness & tether.
If a singlehander did go overboard in the Gulf of the Farallones and watched the boat sail away, I'd want a life jacket and a VHF radio. There's at least a slim chance that someone could find you before hypothermia sets in.
A PLB doesn't have a good antenna for use from low in the water, and most likely your competitors won't have a PLB homing antenna onboard. You might get lucky and raise somebody on the radio, and that's probably your best shot. A PLB may be a good tool, and I would look into how well it works when operated by a person floating offshore in the swell and waves.
Better yet, be tethered in as you go overboard. At least we'll know where to look to find you!
- rob
20 - 49 posts
Rob,
Does anyone except SAR types have a receiver for the PLB homing signals?
I figured the best I could do with the VHF radio is get the antenna a few inches above my head if I wanted to hear and respond...and that means only a few inches above the water. But with the PLB I could hold the whole thing at arms length...at least for a little while. So if VHF is line of sight to shore and the PLB is line of sight to a satellite wouldn't the PLB have a better chance of connecting?
I suppose the best scenario is to have both VHF and PLB.
I agree about the tether, and I'll admit that the Heatwave incident has driven the importance of jack lines and tethers home very nicely. My tethers have quick release shackles, and I wouldn't want any other type.
As for Haulback and the mid-Pacific alternative...well, Jim has sailed more ocean miles just to get to the starting line for his SHTPs than I will probably ever sail, so who am I to comment. Besides, his option seems to be working quite well for him.
Richard
Libations Too
N/M 45 Tiger Beetle
[QUOTE=Libations Too;1863]Rob,
Does anyone except SAR types have a receiver for the PLB homing signals?
[QUOTE]
Yes, there are. SeaMarshall has a system, as do others. The usages I am aware of are some of the Volvo racers, where the time available to recover is short and there are no nearby assets to help in recovering a crew member.
PLB's seems to utilize two radio signals - a 406MHz signal going to the satellite, and a 121.5MHz signal used for localized direction finding. The boat carries the 121.5MHz receiver and a directional antenna. I haven't done much more reading on the PLB as I haven't found much indication of effectiveness from the water's surface.
My main concern with all these PLB posts is that a skipper might think that a PLB is sufficiently good to forego an EPIRB and instead equip the boat solely with a PLB; and there's nothing I've seen to suggest this is a good idea.
I'm also not convinced that a PLB (or an EPIRB, for that matter) can summon rescue quickly enough in the Gulf of the Farallones to save the skipper before hypothermia sets in and the skipper dies. Is an hour sufficient time for a signal to travel to the satellite, thru the SAR system, to have an asset arrive on scene?
My personal take on safety offshore is the skipper needs to buy time in the event the yacht is lost, and this means staying warm enough to stave off hypothermia. Once hypothermia is solved, then it's time to summon aid. I've read reports of fish boat crews surviving many hours up in Alaska wearing a survival suite (gumby suit) and clutching the EPIRB in their hands. To this end I carry a liferaft, an EPIRB, a waterproof handheld VHF radio, and flares. The liferaft and EPIRB are rather expensive, and none of the local ocean races (OYRA, SSS) require either of these items.
I see no harm in carrying a PLB on board, and I see the VHF radio as more likely to obtain immediate help from somebody nearby (within 4-5 miles). If a sailboat is 10 miles away it's probably too far to get to you in time. A PLB can attract a much faster asset, such as a helicopter, and I do not know the launch times of a helicopter.
My suggestion is if you really want to run down the value of the PLB, have a conversation with the USCG SAR group and find out what their experience has been. That would be really helpful to the folks here on the board.
- rob
20 - 49 posts
[QUOTE=tiger beetle;1864]
Good suggestion! Give me a few days and I'll see what I can come up with. I took a tour of the San Francisco Vessel Traffic Service station a couple of years ago and they were extremely cordial and informative. I'll see if I can get similar information or results from the San Francisco USCG SAR group.
You make another good point about skippers who might believe that a PLB can substitute for a boat EPIRB. I probably fall into that category since I did the 2007 LongPac with only a PLB (an ACR AquaFix 406 with GPS). I just checked the 2009 minimum equipment requirements for the LongPac and an EPIRB is required. I did not check the 2007 requirements but presume they were the same. In 2007 my PLB registration did not raise any objections from the RC.
This might be a sticky issue...I checked the manual for my AquaFix 406 and the manual calls it a Personal Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beacon, or a P-EPIRB. So is it an EPIRB or a PLB??? Does the Aquafix (or other PLB) meet the intent of the SSS minimum equipment requirements???
Richard
Libations Too
N/M 45 Tiger Beetle
That would be really good information - let us know what you find out!
I'm not running the 2009 LongPac, so I cannot speak for Ruben. I did write the draft form of the 2009 LongPac equipment requirements, and the PLB is not intended to meet the rule. Interestingly enough I did run the 2007 LongPac, and was unaware that Libations Too was carrying a PLB.
My suggestion is that the term 'EPIRB' has become a generic device, and the SSS LongPac requirement should be updated to stipulate the EPIRB functionality (much like the liferaft requirement), such as: a 406MHz EPIRB that is self-contained, waterpoof, operates for 48 hours, floats upright unattended, and possibly 'is intended for marine use'. One could also stipulate the EPIRB manufacturer recommends the unit for use as the primary EPIRB for ocean-going recreational craft (much like the anchor requirement). This would eliminate the PLBs that I am aware of, as the PLB has a 24 hour battery life.
- rob
20 - 49 posts
If SSS heads in this direction I think it would be good to also cover other features common to most EPIRBs: Strobe required? Manual or automatic deployment? Manual or automatic activation? Internal GPS required? Tether required? Length of tether? Registered to the boat or to the individual (this will probably eliminate the PLBs).
I think the intended length of operation (48 vs 24 hours), internal GPS, and the ability to float upright and transmit are most important...but that is just my opinion.
I'll post an update if and when I hear from USCG SAR here in San Francisco.
Richard
Libations Too
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