Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 29

Thread: Radar Reflector

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,976

    Default

    Keeping the Davis reflector in hanging basket ("catch rain") orientation is the most important factor. A bit of slack in its halyard should help as the boat heels. Davis also recommends it be 10" below the spreader, with a loose loop around the shrouds to keep it from spinning. Our rules require it be 13' above the water - this might be close on smaller boats with upper and lower spreaders.

    As to the tape, I use plastic electrical tape. I think it's thin enough around the edge for the taped-up reflector to still be in compliance with the diameter requirements (per Alan's post above). Besides, given the choice of a possibly weaker signal or damage to my primary means of propulsion (my main), I'll accept the weaker signal.
    Last edited by BobJ; 07-04-2009 at 11:50 AM.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Benicia, CA
    Posts
    60

    Lightbulb Again...OLD technology

    Sure you can stick some clunky mainsail cutting octagon device up your mast...but you can also just put up what is essentially a whip antennae (another one) which is a radar target enhancer. It retransmits the radar sweep it receives at a cost of 350 mA. Only works in X band and some ships still have radar in S band...but still, you will get seen better by most. Sea-Me?

    http://www.theradarreflectorsite.org/
    ^=.=/\..=^
    ||==||==|| Thom Davis
    ||==||==|| SeaRail 19, SriRacha
    ||==||==|| # SR19
    ||==||==||
    v.....\/.... v


  3. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,976

    Default

    Ruh, roh . . . can a Mini discussion be far behind?

    The Sea-Me has been floated out here before. It's less than a pound (plus mast-length power cable) but is supposed to be at the masthead. One of the math gurus (like Thom!) can tell us how that compares with the Davis Echomaster at the lower spreader.

    But the main thing is the Sea-Me's $750 cost (at today's exchange rate). I paid $35 for my Echomaster and have had it eight years.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Vancouver British Columbia, Canada
    Posts
    132

    Default

    Another place to mount radar reflector is to permanently lash it on to the backstay.

    I put mine there and it looks to be sitting on a more-or-less 'catch rain' position, beats the regulation 13 feet above LWL and far out of the way of having any chafe issues with the main.

    Jim/Haulback

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    369

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BobJ View Post
    Ruh, roh . . . can a Mini discussion be far behind?

    The Sea-Me has been floated out here before. It's less than a pound (plus mast-length power cable) but is supposed to be at the masthead. One of the math gurus (like Thom!) can tell us how that compares with the Davis Echomaster at the lower spreader.

    But the main thing is the Sea-Me's $750 cost (at today's exchange rate). I paid $35 for my Echomaster and have had it eight years.
    The key feature disqualifying the Sea-Me from the LongPac RRC is that Sea-Me is a powered unit, and of zero value if the boat has no electrics. While it appears to be a good unit on X-band, the RRC requires the yacht have a passive radar reflector.

    - rob
    Last edited by tiger beetle; 07-06-2009 at 06:16 PM. Reason: grammar correction

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Alameda CA
    Posts
    174

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tiger beetle View Post
    The key feature disqualifying the Sea-Me from the LongPac RRC is that Sea-Me is a powered unit, and of zero value if the boat has no electrics. While it appears to be a good unit on X-band, the RRC requires the yacht have a passive radar reflector.

    - rob
    If you are looking for an active radar reflector, anyway, ( you could have both types on board) the state of the art seems to be the Echomax Active X Band from dealers all over the world.

    John Foster
    Blueberry, Nonsuch 22 Sail #48

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Benicia, CA
    Posts
    60

    Default You make my point for me

    Quote Originally Posted by tiger beetle View Post
    The key feature disqualifying the Sea-Me from the LongPac RRC is that Sea-Me is a powered unit, and of zero value if the boat has no electrics. While it appears to be a good unit on X-band, the RRC requires the yacht have a passive radar reflector.

    - rob
    The RRC (again) is behind the times. You can't have it both ways, in my opinion. Either the insistence on 85 amphour batteries and associated masthead power users is outdated OR the insistence on passive radar reflectors is outdated.

    Is the goal to make rules because you like making rules or is the goal to keep people safe? Is there thought about what is to be accomplished or is there just "rote acceptance" of tradition or someone else' rules? Based on what I've seen, it's the latter--but then I'm a multihull guy and you all know how untraditional we are.
    ^=.=/\..=^
    ||==||==|| Thom Davis
    ||==||==|| SeaRail 19, SriRacha
    ||==||==|| # SR19
    ||==||==||
    v.....\/.... v


  8. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,976

    Default

    The most frequent problems skippers have had offshore are with electrical systems, therefore it makes sense that key safety items not be reliant on them. The second GPS is another example - it must not be dependent on the electrical system. Ditto the primary bilge pump.

    I also know first-hand that rewriting the RR&C's is a time-consuming task and at times involves wearing a target on your chest.

    It's not an "us vs. them" thing.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    369

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thom View Post
    The RRC (again) is behind the times. You can't have it both ways, in my opinion. Either the insistence on 85 amphour batteries and associated masthead power users is outdated OR the insistence on passive radar reflectors is outdated.
    Hi Thom -

    I'm confused by your post; are you perhaps dismissing reliability in pursuit of improved performance?

    To make the point: the purpose of the batteries is to power navigation lights. The purpose of a radar reflector is to be seen.

    If you want to increase failure points in radar reflectors then you can go with a powered radar transponder and introduce power requirements, cabling, electrical connections, printed circuit boards, and an amplifier. These elements, combined, are more useful for being detected by someone else's radar than a passive radar reflector - at the cost of complexity and increased points of failure. If any element in the chain fails then you become invisible. The statement within the rules, to date, has been that the benefit of improved radar detection does not outweigh the complexity of the system, at a minimum.

    On batteries - an 85 AH battery provides a useful 30% capacity of power, or 25AH. Three navigation lights operating at deck level of 12 watts each will consume the 25AH in 8 hours; an 85AH battery is about the mininum one would want on a boat such that the navigation lights could be used at night.

    An alternative to battery-powered lights are kerosene lanterns (as a kid my job was to fill and light the kerosene nav lights on my parent's sailboat - I am quite familiar with them). In contrast to the radar reflector, the rules have accepted that the benefit of electrically operated navigation lights outweighs the complexity of electrical lights - therefore electric lights are allowed and we require the minimum battery to support them.

    It would be helpful to me if you would amplify what is meant by 'associated masthead power users'. What is an associated masthead power users? That has me stumped.

    - rob

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Benicia, CA
    Posts
    60

    Default geez, do you read what you write?

    Re: nav lights...again, LED lights use SO MUCH LESS POWER than incandescent that the 85 amphr stuff is OUTDATED.

    Re: other masthead power users...VHF radio antenae, SSB radio Antenae, Stobe light (for gossake)...

    When you write about kerosene running lights...honestly...are you trying for the title of "ancient mariner"?

    Yeah, you have a target on your back every time you "impose" your rules on someone...I appreciate that. BUT, realize that you have accepted the mantle of "Knowing best" in the face of others' experiences and it would be "nice" to hear of an occasional acknowledgment that maybe you don't know it all (after all, I'm the only one who does )
    ^=.=/\..=^
    ||==||==|| Thom Davis
    ||==||==|| SeaRail 19, SriRacha
    ||==||==|| # SR19
    ||==||==||
    v.....\/.... v


Similar Threads

  1. Active Radar Target Enhancers?
    By Catamount in forum Shorthanded Sailing
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-03-2011, 06:36 AM
  2. question re radar relectors
    By blighbaum in forum Shorthanded Sailing
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 05-09-2008, 02:09 PM
  3. Radar Reflector Requirement
    By Ergo in forum Older races
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 03-09-2008, 04:57 PM
  4. radar reflectors and rules
    By haulback in forum Older races
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 02-20-2008, 10:19 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •