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Thread: 2010 membership/Race Registration

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    166

    Default

    Phil,

    Now that we've cleared up the Wyliecat inequity, we really should take a serious look at that overly tall stick you have. Looking forward to seeing another Ericson 35 at the TB.

    Bill

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    San Mateo
    Posts
    124

    Default

    Bill,

    I'll make you a deal on that stick complete with home made spreaders.

    ?

    Phil

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    350

    Default Three Bridge Entry - how to change shirt sizes?

    OK, so I've entered Three Bridge Fiasco through compete-at's site. If I want to change the crew's t-shirt size, how do I go about doing that? I have found no way to get back to the form that was filled out regarding that piece of information. In fact, it seems that I cannot locate the entry form at all, including -

    how can I change divisions if I screwed up, or switch from singel to double or the reverse?
    how to alter shirt sizes?

    - rob/beetle

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    San Mateo
    Posts
    124

    Default

    Anyone know where to find the start times?

    Thanks

    Phil

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    37.205346,-121.963398
    Posts
    659

    Default Wylie Cats are like Recumbent Bicycles

    They don't suffer from the drag of that forward sail.

    I have old trophies from assorted races I would happily donate to add a class so the WC's can sail to glory amongst similar DNA.

    Brian

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Alameda CA
    Posts
    174

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tiger beetle View Post
    OK, so I've entered Three Bridge Fiasco through compete-at's site. If I want to change the crew's t-shirt size, how do I go about doing that? I have found no way to get back to the form that was filled out regarding that piece of information. In fact, it seems that I cannot locate the entry form at all, including -

    how can I change divisions if I screwed up, or switch from singel to double or the reverse?
    how to alter shirt sizes?

    - rob/beetle
    We had to change a few things so you can see (supposedly) what choices you made for Catagory and T shirt sizes. I regret this blew away your previous T shirt choices. Please enter them again.

    Hopefully, this should stabilize things in our software, for a day or so.

    One a software related note, there may be a browser related bug in printing the entrants list with Firefox. Safari apparently prints the whole screen, while Firefox may not. This is under investigation.

    John Foster
    SSS Race Info Wonk
    Nonsuch 22 Blueberry

    If you know what you are doing, you can ignore the instructions below

    Otherwise, please pay attention to these instructions. (grin)

    If you log in and choose the Three Bridge Fiasco 2010 event, you might end up on a page that shows the choices.

    On the right hand you should see something like:

    Below is information for participant: John Foster
    except it should be your name, not mine.

    Below that you should see something like

    Entry Summary for John Foster
    except it should be your name, not mine.

    Below that you should see something like

    Categories: SInglehanded 4 PHRF > 155 No Sportboats or Multihulls

    except it should show your category, not mine, If you are happy with what you see, leave it alone. If you want to change your category, click on the little pencil symbol. This opens up your choices on a page like

    Divisions for John Foster
    except it should show your category, not mine, make the change you want or leave it alone.

    Scroll to the bottom, and if you have made a change, click the Save Changes button.

    Click the Go Back arrow on your browser

    This takes you back to your page that looks like

    Below is information for participant: John Foster

    except it should be your name, not mine.

    On that page you should see something like

    Requirement Summary for John Foster
    except it should be your name, not mine.

    Scroll to the bottom choice

    Skipper and Crew Shirt Sizes

    If you want to re-do or change your T-shirt sizes (the reason you got this email), click on the little pencil symbol. This opens up your choices on a page like

    Skipper and Crew Shirt Sizes
    Required items are shown in GREEN.

    If you are saving this form with a “Complete” status, you must complete all required fields in green.

    Pick shirt sizes in both places. If SH, just pick No Crew as the size choice. You can make a change later.

    Making these choices does not mean you will actually get a shirt at all, let alone the size you selected, though it does make that a more likely outcome (grin)

    SAVE CHANGES button must be clicked before you exit this page

    or your choices wil not be recorded.
    Last edited by jfoster; 01-08-2010 at 08:58 AM. Reason: Correct spelling

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Santa Rosa
    Posts
    535

    Default Wyliecat Discussion

    I really can't let the Wyliecat discussion pass without contributing. I was SSS Commodore when the "Wyliecat 30" division was set up. There was grumbling about Wylies and the Wylie skippers approached the SSS Board with a request to lower their PHRF for SSS races. At the time the base rating for a Wyliecat 30 was 141. We refused, citing the slippery slope of race committees altering NC PHRF numbers and instead decided to set up a "Wyliecat 30" division. That's the way it's been every since.
    Then the prevailing "anti Wylie" sentiment wasn't "easier sailing" - it was their rating. Over the intervening years the NC PHRF Committee progressively lowered the Base Wyliecat 30 PHRF to 129 (a reduction of 12 seconds per mile). The last 3-second reduction occurred about the same moment I purchased my Wylie several years ago.
    One question that hasn't come up in the Wyliecat discussion so far is why the SSS allows other cat-rigged boats to sail in PHRF Divisions? If one cat-rigged boat is "easier to sail" then aren't all of them?
    Someone in a previous post asked if Wylie sailors are better than others. That's a difficult judgment, but if you're old enough you'd remember guys like Steve Wonner, Steve Seals, and John Skinner tearing things up in their Cal 20s and Santana 22s. Andy Hall doesn't do too badly in his Gemini twin. I don't want to brag, but I think I did pretty well in all three conventional boats I've sailed previous to buying the Wyliecat. And there are others.
    A similar "unfair" argument came up when asymmetrical chutes began to proliferate - especially J-105s and similar J-boats. I fondly remember being passed by asymmetrical boats being jibed from the cockpit while I struggled on the foredeck (especially in Farallones races) to jibe the pole on both my Newport 30 and Santana 22 - several trips between the foredeck and cockpit as I remember. It's the main reason I spent years sailing the Newport in the SSS non-spinnaker division.
    There was discussion of banning asymmetrics to their own division, but that didn't happen. Even an Alerion 28 (and other similar boats) with its self-tending jib could be seen as "easier" to sail. Roller furling headsails vs hank on (yes, there was a time when most boats had hank on headsails)? And the list goes on.
    I purchased my Wyliecat 30 with full knowledge of all the background; one owner even counseled me with the advice that "They really hate us." I went with the Wylie partly because I know and respect the other Wylie skippers and enjoy sailing against them. I also went with the Wylie because I'm not a "yacht club" guy with 6 gorillas for friends and it allows me to compete in YRA and other PHRF racing with a small crew - just as my Santana 22 did. And my list of reasons also goes on.
    Pat Broderick - "NANCY" Wyliecat #28890

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    San Mateo
    Posts
    124

    Default

    Pat,

    I want it to be clear that I donít hate anyone because of the boat they sail. My point is that Wylie cat 30ís are easier to sail that my Ericson 35. If anyone disagrees with that they are only kidding themselves.
    Your point that a lot of the people that sail Wylie 30ís are good sailors is noted and agreed with. So now you have people who we know are good sailors put in boats we know are easier to sail short handed. As you say,
    ďI went with the Wylie partly because I know and respect the other Wylie skippers and enjoy sailing against them. I also went with the Wylie because I'm not a "yacht club" guy with 6 gorillas for friends and it allows me to compete in YRA and other PHRF racing with a small crew - just as my Santana 22 did. ď

    When we race SSS none of us has the six gorillas. So by your own admission Wylie Cats are easier to sail.

    ďI struggled on the foredeck (especially in Farallones races) to jibe the pole on both my Newport 30 and Santana 22 - several trips between the foredeck and cockpit as I remember. It's the main reason I spent years sailing the Newport in the SSS non-spinnaker division.Ē

    So if you sail a boat whose rating assume you will use a spinnaker but you donít for what ever reason then how can you expect to do well in the standings? You really canít. So a Wylie Cat 30 can be sailed to itís full potential from the cockpit, never having to leave the cockpit or the tiller, and a conventional boat cannot.

    So, in a Single Handed Farallones races, I have to leave the cockpit while rounding the Islands or just after to set up the spinnaker. I have to do this so I have a chance to catch the Wylie cat 30ís that sailed past me on the way out. Once the spinnaker is up I have to drop my hank on jib (or not). At or near the Golden Gate I have to leave the cockpit again to jibe the spinnaker while the Wylie Cat 30 just jibes without leaving the cockpit. I know this because I can see then because they are still ahead of me.

    If I have Wylie Cat 30ís in my division I stand very little chance of ever doing well in my division. I donít think this is because the people sailing them are better sailors than I am. I think itís because Wylie Cat 30ís have a real advantage in short handed and especially in single-handed racing. I donít have any thing against Wylie Cat 30ís or the people that sail them. I think they are great boats by a great designer and I wouldnít mind owning one myself. But to put them in the same division as my boat that was (in the early 70ís) raced with a crew of seven does not seem right. They are very different boats and should be grouped differently. I think you and your board did the right thing by putting them in there own division and Iím glad to see it still is that way. But even if it werenít that way anymore I would have accepted it. ďIt is what it isĒ I am not one to wine and moan. I have never complained about anyoneís rating, the type of boat and most of all I never complained about not getting a trophy at an awards ceremony, which is more than I can say for at least one Wylie Cat 30 sailor.

    Phil MacFarlane
    1971Ericson 35 MkII Sail a Vie
    11,500 LBS
    LWL 25
    One main, four head sails, four spinnakers and lots of lines.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Benicia, CA
    Posts
    58

    Default You make a great point, Phil...

    " So a Wylie Cat 30 can be sailed to itís full potential from the cockpit, never having to leave the cockpit or the tiller, and a conventional boat cannot. "

    True statement, and applies to other equipment (e.g., asymmetric spinnaker) and designs (other catrigged boats or multihulls or sportboats), as well. If you can sail your boat to its full potential easier than someone else can in his conventional boat, you are likelier to do well in short handed events.

    That being said, do you want to penalize all boats with roller furler headsails? I expect you would say, "Probably not since the rolling furler jib is likely a little slower and the roller furler is only used once or twice in a race, so it is probably a wash." Note the use of probability (likely, probably...).

    Many other things besides skipper skill go into the mix to result in a "winner". For example, would you argue that an asymmetric spin is faster on a DDW course than a symmetric? Probably not since it would depend on windspeed and number of gybes... Similarly a catrigged boat won't likely go faster on a DDW course without a spinnaker in the medium breezes...A very light boat will not go to weather in chop.

    The point being that luck is a contributor to one's success in any race. While a design might be favored in some conditions, other designs are likelier to be favored in other conditions. That's what makes amateur sports fun, for me anyway.

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