Phil,
Now that we've cleared up the Wyliecat inequity, we really should take a serious look at that overly tall stick you have. Looking forward to seeing another Ericson 35 at the TB.
Bill
Phil,
Now that we've cleared up the Wyliecat inequity, we really should take a serious look at that overly tall stick you have. Looking forward to seeing another Ericson 35 at the TB.
Bill
Bill,
I'll make you a deal on that stick complete with home made spreaders.
?
Phil
OK, so I've entered Three Bridge Fiasco through compete-at's site. If I want to change the crew's t-shirt size, how do I go about doing that? I have found no way to get back to the form that was filled out regarding that piece of information. In fact, it seems that I cannot locate the entry form at all, including -
how can I change divisions if I screwed up, or switch from singel to double or the reverse?
how to alter shirt sizes?
- rob/beetle
Anyone know where to find the start times?
Thanks
Phil
They don't suffer from the drag of that forward sail.
I have old trophies from assorted races I would happily donate to add a class so the WC's can sail to glory amongst similar DNA.
Brian
We had to change a few things so you can see (supposedly) what choices you made for Catagory and T shirt sizes. I regret this blew away your previous T shirt choices. Please enter them again.
Hopefully, this should stabilize things in our software, for a day or so.
One a software related note, there may be a browser related bug in printing the entrants list with Firefox. Safari apparently prints the whole screen, while Firefox may not. This is under investigation.
John Foster
SSS Race Info Wonk
Nonsuch 22 Blueberry
If you know what you are doing, you can ignore the instructions below
Otherwise, please pay attention to these instructions. (grin)
If you log in and choose the Three Bridge Fiasco 2010 event, you might end up on a page that shows the choices.
On the right hand you should see something like:
Below is information for participant: John Foster
except it should be your name, not mine.
Below that you should see something like
Entry Summary for John Foster
except it should be your name, not mine.
Below that you should see something like
Categories: SInglehanded 4 PHRF > 155 No Sportboats or Multihulls
except it should show your category, not mine, If you are happy with what you see, leave it alone. If you want to change your category, click on the little pencil symbol. This opens up your choices on a page like
Divisions for John Foster
except it should show your category, not mine, make the change you want or leave it alone.
Scroll to the bottom, and if you have made a change, click the Save Changes button.
Click the Go Back arrow on your browser
This takes you back to your page that looks like
Below is information for participant: John Foster
except it should be your name, not mine.
On that page you should see something like
Requirement Summary for John Foster
except it should be your name, not mine.
Scroll to the bottom choice
Skipper and Crew Shirt Sizes
If you want to re-do or change your T-shirt sizes (the reason you got this email), click on the little pencil symbol. This opens up your choices on a page like
Skipper and Crew Shirt Sizes
Required items are shown in GREEN.
If you are saving this form with a “Complete” status, you must complete all required fields in green.
Pick shirt sizes in both places. If SH, just pick No Crew as the size choice. You can make a change later.
Making these choices does not mean you will actually get a shirt at all, let alone the size you selected, though it does make that a more likely outcome (grin)
SAVE CHANGES button must be clicked before you exit this page
or your choices wil not be recorded.
Last edited by jfoster; 01-08-2010 at 08:58 AM. Reason: Correct spelling
I really can't let the Wyliecat discussion pass without contributing. I was SSS Commodore when the "Wyliecat 30" division was set up. There was grumbling about Wylies and the Wylie skippers approached the SSS Board with a request to lower their PHRF for SSS races. At the time the base rating for a Wyliecat 30 was 141. We refused, citing the slippery slope of race committees altering NC PHRF numbers and instead decided to set up a "Wyliecat 30" division. That's the way it's been every since.
Then the prevailing "anti Wylie" sentiment wasn't "easier sailing" - it was their rating. Over the intervening years the NC PHRF Committee progressively lowered the Base Wyliecat 30 PHRF to 129 (a reduction of 12 seconds per mile). The last 3-second reduction occurred about the same moment I purchased my Wylie several years ago.
One question that hasn't come up in the Wyliecat discussion so far is why the SSS allows other cat-rigged boats to sail in PHRF Divisions? If one cat-rigged boat is "easier to sail" then aren't all of them?
Someone in a previous post asked if Wylie sailors are better than others. That's a difficult judgment, but if you're old enough you'd remember guys like Steve Wonner, Steve Seals, and John Skinner tearing things up in their Cal 20s and Santana 22s. Andy Hall doesn't do too badly in his Gemini twin. I don't want to brag, but I think I did pretty well in all three conventional boats I've sailed previous to buying the Wyliecat. And there are others.
A similar "unfair" argument came up when asymmetrical chutes began to proliferate - especially J-105s and similar J-boats. I fondly remember being passed by asymmetrical boats being jibed from the cockpit while I struggled on the foredeck (especially in Farallones races) to jibe the pole on both my Newport 30 and Santana 22 - several trips between the foredeck and cockpit as I remember. It's the main reason I spent years sailing the Newport in the SSS non-spinnaker division.
There was discussion of banning asymmetrics to their own division, but that didn't happen. Even an Alerion 28 (and other similar boats) with its self-tending jib could be seen as "easier" to sail. Roller furling headsails vs hank on (yes, there was a time when most boats had hank on headsails)? And the list goes on.
I purchased my Wyliecat 30 with full knowledge of all the background; one owner even counseled me with the advice that "They really hate us." I went with the Wylie partly because I know and respect the other Wylie skippers and enjoy sailing against them. I also went with the Wylie because I'm not a "yacht club" guy with 6 gorillas for friends and it allows me to compete in YRA and other PHRF racing with a small crew - just as my Santana 22 did. And my list of reasons also goes on.
Pat Broderick - "NANCY" Wyliecat #28890
Pat,
I want it to be clear that I don’t hate anyone because of the boat they sail. My point is that Wylie cat 30’s are easier to sail that my Ericson 35. If anyone disagrees with that they are only kidding themselves.
Your point that a lot of the people that sail Wylie 30’s are good sailors is noted and agreed with. So now you have people who we know are good sailors put in boats we know are easier to sail short handed. As you say,
“I went with the Wylie partly because I know and respect the other Wylie skippers and enjoy sailing against them. I also went with the Wylie because I'm not a "yacht club" guy with 6 gorillas for friends and it allows me to compete in YRA and other PHRF racing with a small crew - just as my Santana 22 did. “
When we race SSS none of us has the six gorillas. So by your own admission Wylie Cats are easier to sail.
“I struggled on the foredeck (especially in Farallones races) to jibe the pole on both my Newport 30 and Santana 22 - several trips between the foredeck and cockpit as I remember. It's the main reason I spent years sailing the Newport in the SSS non-spinnaker division.”
So if you sail a boat whose rating assume you will use a spinnaker but you don’t for what ever reason then how can you expect to do well in the standings? You really can’t. So a Wylie Cat 30 can be sailed to it’s full potential from the cockpit, never having to leave the cockpit or the tiller, and a conventional boat cannot.
So, in a Single Handed Farallones races, I have to leave the cockpit while rounding the Islands or just after to set up the spinnaker. I have to do this so I have a chance to catch the Wylie cat 30’s that sailed past me on the way out. Once the spinnaker is up I have to drop my hank on jib (or not). At or near the Golden Gate I have to leave the cockpit again to jibe the spinnaker while the Wylie Cat 30 just jibes without leaving the cockpit. I know this because I can see then because they are still ahead of me.
If I have Wylie Cat 30’s in my division I stand very little chance of ever doing well in my division. I don’t think this is because the people sailing them are better sailors than I am. I think it’s because Wylie Cat 30’s have a real advantage in short handed and especially in single-handed racing. I don’t have any thing against Wylie Cat 30’s or the people that sail them. I think they are great boats by a great designer and I wouldn’t mind owning one myself. But to put them in the same division as my boat that was (in the early 70’s) raced with a crew of seven does not seem right. They are very different boats and should be grouped differently. I think you and your board did the right thing by putting them in there own division and I’m glad to see it still is that way. But even if it weren’t that way anymore I would have accepted it. “It is what it is” I am not one to wine and moan. I have never complained about anyone’s rating, the type of boat and most of all I never complained about not getting a trophy at an awards ceremony, which is more than I can say for at least one Wylie Cat 30 sailor.
Phil MacFarlane
1971Ericson 35 MkII Sail a Vie
11,500 LBS
LWL 25
One main, four head sails, four spinnakers and lots of lines.
" So a Wylie Cat 30 can be sailed to it’s full potential from the cockpit, never having to leave the cockpit or the tiller, and a conventional boat cannot. "
True statement, and applies to other equipment (e.g., asymmetric spinnaker) and designs (other catrigged boats or multihulls or sportboats), as well. If you can sail your boat to its full potential easier than someone else can in his conventional boat, you are likelier to do well in short handed events.
That being said, do you want to penalize all boats with roller furler headsails? I expect you would say, "Probably not since the rolling furler jib is likely a little slower and the roller furler is only used once or twice in a race, so it is probably a wash." Note the use of probability (likely, probably...).
Many other things besides skipper skill go into the mix to result in a "winner". For example, would you argue that an asymmetric spin is faster on a DDW course than a symmetric? Probably not since it would depend on windspeed and number of gybes... Similarly a catrigged boat won't likely go faster on a DDW course without a spinnaker in the medium breezes...A very light boat will not go to weather in chop.
The point being that luck is a contributor to one's success in any race. While a design might be favored in some conditions, other designs are likelier to be favored in other conditions. That's what makes amateur sports fun, for me anyway.