View Poll Results: Should a SH boat be allowed to enter in the DH division?

Voters
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  • Yes

    9 60.00%
  • No

    6 40.00%
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Thread: Should a SH boat be allowed to enter in the DH division?

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    448

    Default

    I think it's fairly simple - a doublehanded division is for two on a boat, the singlehanded division for one person on a boat.

    It makes no sense to believe that a singlehander can sail in a doublehanded division - the singlehander doesn't meet the basic division requirement of having two people on the boat.

    - rob/beetle

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    255

    Default Healthy debate...

    I do think a bit of debate is healthy. As Ergo suggested, for my specific case I'm fully delegating on the board making a determination on the outcome of my score and I will accept without objection.

    Going forward, however, we should strive for a minimum set of rules that are unambiguous in their intent.

    Already for Vallejo-2 we do allow a SH to get a score in a DH division, which counts towards the DH season scoring. As such, neither a safety nor a performance argument is valid. From a safety perspective both SH and DH entries start and race simultaneously on races with both divisions. So how they are scored makes little difference to safety. From a performance perspective, I think we will be hard pressed to justify how a SH is advantaged over a DH entry.

    Should this be made the single rule? Its not as crazy as some have suggested.
    SH = 1
    DH <= 2

    At the end of the day this is a racing club. We sponsor races, not cruises. Most of us are here for the fun and challenge of shorthanded 'racing' our friends. We can shorthand sail any time we want without the club. As such, the scoring is very relevant to what we are as a club. Some, don't care about the season standings, others don't care about individual race scores and others might not even care about any results. That is all fine, but the club still offers individual races and season scores, and it should provide a consistent set of rules of implementing both from one board to the next.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    166

    Default

    Thanks, Traviseo but I'm a bit confused. You suggest that we strive for "a minimum set of rules that are unambiguous in their intent" but you want to change the meaning of single and double. Double means 2. You are suggesting that double means 2 or 1. How is that different than singlehanded? How is that less ambiguous than a doublehanded entry shall have two people on it.

    To say that a JS 9000 is disadvantaged with one as oppossed to two aboard really beggers belief. The boat is a dinghy with a keel. The absence of 150 to 200 pounds of ballast would, if anything, be an advantage. On an IOR boat maybe not so much. The JS 9000 is an exotic design. It's a very difficult boat to beat under the existing rules and rating system. Is it really reasonable to jimmy the rules so that its skipper also has the option of racing single or double regardless of how many bodies are on the boat?


    Bill Merrick

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    255

    Default

    The problem is that today it is not that black and white. The 2=2 rule is arbitrarily waived for Vallejo-2 to mean <=2. I think it has always been waived for Vallejo-2 as the logistics to get crew to Vallejo can be challenging, or no one ever cared enough to enforce it (for Vallejo or any other race) as there is no advantage in going singlehanded.

    And I can live with that rule (and its exception for Vallejo), its just that I know it hasn't been enforced (at least uniformly) in the past.

    This is not about boat type. Clearly the JS was designed for shorthanded crew, so are the Minis, WylieCats, etc.

    Cheers

  5. #15
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Novato
    Posts
    122

    Default

    Oh, this is sort of a tough one. I voted 'No' because, like Beetle said, these divisions are defined as either single or double, plain and simple. However, I think it's a kick to race "shorthanded," where solo and DH sailors are pitted against each other, racing in the same class as veritable equals. You can do this in the OYRA in their Shorthanded Division, and some of us SSS'ers have done just that quite a lot.

    Paul/Culebra

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