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Thread: New Boat 4 Sled

  1. #3341
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    The photo below is of yesterday's big boat start in the 50th Anniversary running of the "Transpac." AKA "Honolulu Race," the Transpac starts off Pt. Fermin, just outside San Pedro in Los Angeles Harbor on odd number years.

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    90 boats started Transpac over 4 days. Saturday's 28 starters set off on port tack because the Catalina Eddy had backed the prevailing afternoon seabreeze from southwest to southeast. In this situation, "you can't get there from here," and many high priced professional navigators spent last night and most of today drifting between Santa Barbara and San Nicholas Island. Except for the Mod-70 foiling trimaran MASERATI who decided to sail north towards Santa Cruz Island, and got stuck in their own private parking space.

    The port tack start for Transpac in a Catalina Eddy happens about 25% of races. Though minimally related, a "Southerly Surge" at the start of a SHTP can produce the same effect: port tack light southerlies, as in 2018.. First boat through the transition zone and into the "synoptic" or "gradient" northwest winds 50-75 miles offshore gets "launched" and can end up of hours, if not days, ahead of those less fortunate.

    Here's a photo of the 100 foot motorboat COMANCHE starting the Transpac yesterday, motorsailing at 11 knots upwind in 7 knots of wind.

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    COMANCHE is on port tack, going fast at right angles to the course to Honolulu. COMANCHE, shipped from Australia to LA, is odd's on favorite to win the historical Barn Door Trophy for first mono-hull to finish the Transpac unless she breaks like happened to RIO in the last Transpac when oceanic debris broke off one of her rudders.

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    Until this year, the Barn Door Trophy was not awarded to any boat that was engine ("power") assisted. But that rule was recently ditched and favors COMANCHE against her 100 foot rival RIO. RIO has a fixed keel and all manually powered winches turned by 16 crew. COMANCHE, running her engine 24/7, is able to cant her keel to each puff for added stability. And pushing buttons turn the winches. Without the engine, COMANCHE would be unable to sail. They would lose critical stability from the canting keel. And without winches, the giant headsails couldn't be trimmed, and the main unable to be reefed.

    Though both RIO and COMANCHE are 100 footers, except in light winds, COMANCHE is 2-4 knots faster on all points of motor sail.

    That's why photos of COMANCHE are usually taken from a bow angle. From aft, viewing her 25 foot wide transom, you will likely notice engine exhaust.
    Last edited by sleddog; 07-15-2019 at 12:34 PM.

  2. #3342
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    I DO NOT think that any power assisted boats, as Comanche is described by Sleddog, should be scored as a sailing yacht in the record books or be awarded any of the trophies given to the TRUE sailing boats.

    I agree that their elapsed times are impressive but power assisted boats should have their fleet, trophies, and not be awarded the "BARN DOOR"!��

  3. #3343
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    Saratoga
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Spruit View Post
    I DO NOT think that any power assisted boats, as Comanche is described by Sleddog, should be scored as a sailing yacht in the record books or be awarded any of the trophies given to the TRUE sailing boats.

    I agree that their elapsed times are impressive but power assisted boats should have their fleet, trophies, and not be awarded the "BARN DOOR"!��
    A hydro generator is one thing, but running an engine is absurd.

  4. #3344
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    Here's a drone shot of COMANCHE's cockpit and their powered winches. I assume those are the foot buttons on the cockpit floor just inboard of the winch.

    No winch handles to lose overboard on COMANCHE to lighten the owner's wallet. Interesting to note the port side jib winch turns backwards, but the port side runner winch behind the wheel does not.

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    No one asked, but if you were to make COMANCHE's jib sheet 2 part. it would halve the load = smaller winches, less fuel.
    Last edited by sleddog; 07-14-2019 at 11:37 PM.

  5. #3345
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    Oh Dear,

    With still 75% of the course to go, the 90 boat Transpac fleet is suffering attrition: at least 6 rudders compromised, including two Hobie-33's, a Santa Cruz 50, a Beneteau 47.7, a Mod-70 foiling trimaran, and a Santa Cruz 70.. A mast bent or broken on an Olson-40, and a Cal-40 with an unspecified hull leak. All except the Mod-70 and SC-70 are returning to the Mainland under their own means.

    In the bigger fish and breaking news department, two boats I've sailed on have been involved in a rescue 200 miles off the Coast. The modified Santa Cruz 70 OEX, reportedly with rudder post damage and water ingress, has been abandoned, and her all pro crew taken aboard the nearby Andrews-70 PYEWACKET. PYE will be returning to the Mainland carrying 9 extra bodies. But what of OEX with nobody aboard? Her tracker is still working and drifting south at 2 knots.

    Not for long.
    Last edited by sleddog; 07-15-2019 at 11:25 AM.

  6. #3346
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    Hi Skip -

    it seems that the big multihull Maserati has also pranged into something floating in the water that significantly damaged a rudder and part of their hull (unclear if they are talking of an ama or the main hull).

    To what extent can the damage due to hitting underwater stuff be attributed to the boats going faster, and then being built lighter and closer to the edge to go faster? Force = Velocity squared, something as simple as going from 10 knots to 11 knots increases the forces by 21%. The boats are going fast, certainly far faster than I can (I'm very happy to be running at 8 knots, I'm more likely to average 6.5-7), and there must be a fair bit of stuff floating around to hit. The hull structures would have be built just as strong structurally as a heavier boat for the same rig dimensions, though it was explained to me by Buzz Ballenger (spar builder) that the righting moment of the boat is key to mast and rigging loads - so perhaps a lighter boat doesn't need to be built as strongly as a heavier boat to support the same mast and rigging loads - that I do not know. It also doesn't make sense to me that a boat's displacement is directly related to righting moment.

    Bummer to read about the damage to what I expect are expertly maintained boats.

    - rob
    Last edited by tiger beetle; 07-15-2019 at 09:43 AM.

  7. #3347
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    Not to pour cold water on it, but this is the biggest reason why another SHTP is not a sure thing for me. These collisions, with resulting foil damage and DNFs (or worse), are becoming a frequent occurrence. Not just a regular occurrence, a frequent occurrence. Given the resources it takes to participate, it's a big consideration in the decision.

  8. #3348
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    Hi Bob -

    the wood floating all around British Columbia (and Puget Sound) is one of the big reasons I do not particularly enjoy singlehanded boating up there; you really can't leave the helm for any ength of time for fear of banging into a log. Most of the wood is not some giant tree, vertical floating logs (dead heads) are a rarity, but there sure is a lot of 10 foot branches and logs and smaller stuff to hit and/or bend a propeller blade on.

    I don't seem to mind that so much out in the ocean, I'm more concerned about collisions with non-AIS fishing vessels than I am about stuff down in the water. I also don't particularly care for coastal sailing where it's relatively easy to hit North America.

    At our speeds I don't worry too much about running into stuff, mostly because I can't do anything about it. Whales, on the other hand, are a different issue as they might choose to hit you!

    - rob

  9. #3349
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    It's fresh in my mind because of Will's boat in the LongPac and because I've been spending time in Surprise!'s stern area, staring at the rudder post, lower bearing, etc. Then we have Sled's post above, "at least five rudders compromised..." then OEX - and the Transpac is still in its early stages.

  10. #3350
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger beetle View Post
    Hi Skip -

    it seems that the big multihull Maserati has also pranged into something floating in the water that significantly damaged a rudder and part of their hull (unclear if they are talking of an ama or the main hull).
    - rob
    Thanks, Rob,
    Here's what we know about the foiling Mod-70 trimaran MASERATI that hit something large last evening shortly after sunset while sailing at 23-24 knots.

    Giovanni Soldini explained: “We couldn't understand what it was, but it was very big, at least one meter high out of the water. It hit the left side hull with great force, severely damaging it, then it glided along the hull and hit the rudder. The fuse system worked, but the object was so big that we lost the outer half of the wing. We had to stop for one hour: we took off the wing completely so we could use the rudder's blade. Now we're sailing with the bow out of the water using the foil: we're waiting for the light to arrive to do a thorough inspection of the side hull - which has 7 watertight bulkheads - to check if there are any holes.”

    My GF, a non-sailor, when told of OEX and MASERATI's misfortunes, logically asked, "Did they hit each other?"
    Last edited by sleddog; 07-15-2019 at 11:15 AM.

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