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Thread: New Boat 4 Sled

  1. #4241
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    Skip, the ship appears to have bow thruster indicators painted on the hull. Two, in fact. Wouldn't those be an important tool to keep the ship away from the bank?

  2. #4242
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    Lovely scenery, a beautiful day for it and it sounds like another of your entertaining "voyages", Skip. Well done and thanks for sharing the tale.

    C&V&C

  3. #4243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Critter View Post
    Skip, the ship appears to have bow thruster indicators painted on the hull. Two, in fact. Wouldn't those be an important tool to keep the ship away from the bank?
    I wasn't joking about Suez Canal pilots stop working 5x/day to pray to Mecca..this has been documented by ship captain friends. Religion takes precedence no matter what else is happening when piloting in the Suez Canal.

    There was a ship close astern of EVER GIVEN, the 300 meter M/V DENVER, when she ground to a stop. Fortunately the DENVER was able to "crash stop," without T-boning EVER GIVEN.

    I'm not sure bow thrusters properly used would have prevented the grounding. Once the ship begins to divert from centerline in the canal, the "bank effect" begins to take over, sucking the ship ever closer to the side of the canal.

    As well as other contributions, for whatever reason, the EVER GIVEN was speeding at 12 knots. That's 5 knots over the Suez Canal speed limit and just asking for trouble. Dead Slow, or Slow Ahead, would have been the correct call, as documented on previous post #4236 upthread.

    Something not being mentioned is the fact with both bow and stern of EVERGIVEN aground and supported by the canal banks, the middle of the ship, about 1,000 feet worth, is afloat but unsupported. Hundreds if not thousands of tons of cargo is trying to break the ship in two. I would not be surprised to hear the ship has developed cracks amidships.

    Maybe what's needed is the horsepower of one of these French tugs...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eu3GZAadt3M be sure turn down the dramatic music!
    Last edited by sleddog; 03-27-2021 at 01:14 PM.

  4. #4244
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    Yorkshire tries to enter the news cycle: "Pork pie delivery will be delayed."

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    Last edited by sleddog; 03-28-2021 at 09:08 AM.

  5. #4245
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleddog View Post
    I wasn't joking about Suez Canal pilots stop working 5x/day to pray to Mecca..this has been documented by ship captain friends. Religion takes precedence no matter what else is happening when piloting in the Suez Canal.

    There was a ship close astern of EVER GIVEN, the 300 meter M/V DENVER, when she ground to a stop. Fortunately the DENVER was able to "crash stop," without T-boning EVER GIVEN.

    I'm not sure bow thrusters properly used would have prevented the grounding. Once the ship begins to divert from centerline in the canal, the "bank effect" begins to take over, sucking the ship ever closer to the side of the canal.

    As well as other contributions, for whatever reason, the EVER GIVEN was speeding at 12 knots. That's 5 knots over the Suez Canal speed limit and just asking for trouble. Dead Slow, or Slow Ahead, would have been the correct call, as documented on previous post #4236 upthread.

    Something not being mentioned is the fact with both bow and stern of EVERGIVEN aground and supported by the canal banks, the middle of the ship, about 1,000 feet worth, is afloat but unsupported. Hundreds if not thousands of tons of cargo is trying to break the ship in two. I would not be surprised to hear the ship has developed cracks amidships.

    Maybe what's needed is the horsepower of one of these French tugs...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eu3GZAadt3M be sure turn down the dramatic music!
    Growing up in the Canal Zone with my dad (a canal pilot whom I often went to work with) and working as a line handler hundreds of times for extra spending money, i saw a lot of crazy things that happpened in a canal tranist. I once saw a windshear hit with a large container ship as it passed into the Colebra cut. The canal tugs back really had a job to do to yank it from it's lodging. The canal had the tugs to do the job and the shovels to fix the damage. Still it took weeks/months to fix.

    Windshear has been a known problem for these container ships. Since the panamax or bigger max sizes are getting more commonplace, sound like they will like the panamanians and the egyptians - will need a fleet off super tugs and reponse teams to address thess new demands. The debate over the years in these major bottle necks has been hampered by politics and funding.
    Last edited by Black Jack; 03-29-2021 at 08:50 AM.
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  6. #4246
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleddog View Post
    This question is properly addressed directly to the Race Chair or PRO, the only personages who can modify the RRS in the NOR. I am not that person. Asking here in general terms risks un-official or uninformed opinions.

    I have queried the PRO of the CBC. Her opinion may not be that of the SSS. She says,"'Twin headsails set on two poles for downwind sailing' applies to any CBC race, not to classes unless so stated. If you fly legal jibs, you may wing them out as 'twins' using two poles attached to the front of the mast whether they be spinnaker poles or whisker poles. The pole length may not exceed the LP of the jib being poled out. Two poles may not be used flying a spinnaker except when gybing. It makes no difference for flying twin jibs in CBC racing if your boat has a spinnaker or just jibs (non-spinnaker class)."

    I've cruised and raced many thousands of miles with twin jibs and poles of various dimensions. If you have any practical questions not associated with SSS Rules, feel free to visit "New Boat 4 Sled" with your query. John Letcher, Jr. also has excellent discussion and photos of twins in his classic Self-Steering for Sailing Craft. Highly recommended.
    As usual, your wealth of knowledge, sharing of experience and good recommendations really added to my inquiry. I spent the day reading the book on line and thinking about applicable modern solutions to make sailing down wind a fast, more comfortable and safer passage.

    The author made his book is available on line for free on line. The merits of his thoughts and approach reflect his collected personal expereinces from his own inquires, knowledge, and thoughtfulness really helps someone interested good the distance downwind and great starters in understanding non electrical self steering setups.

    https://jesterchallenge.files.wordpr...r-jr-small.pdf

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    Considering the twin headsail set up as "pulling sails", how much of a loss of performance is there compared to a spinnaker of similar size within the 135 degree down wind run?
    Last edited by Black Jack; 03-29-2021 at 09:52 AM.
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  7. #4247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Jack View Post
    Considering the twin headsail set up as "pulling sails", how much of a loss of performance is there compared to a spinnaker of similar size within the 135 degree down wind run?
    No definitive answer to this, as it depends on boat design, wind speed, who's steering (hand steering, wind vane, or AP. It also depends on the size, weight, and cut of the twins.

    I sailed on a 30 foot Mull design similar to yours that had legal 155% twins with poles to match. G. Mull thought this the fastest way to singlehand to Hawaii, with more area spread than a spinnaker. I pointed out that the owner/skipper was an out-of-shape newbie to sailing, the poles were 17 feet long. And if, in a seaway, one of the poles dipped, the mast would likely come down. It was decided to do the Pac Cup instead, with full crew, no twins and a happier wife.

    On WILDFLOWER, my 27' custom Wylie cruiser displacing about 6,500 pounds, when running DDW in tradewinds 18-22 knots, the boat could average hull speed, 7.5 knots, as fast as a spinnaker, using 125%, 2.2 oz ripstop nylon twins with 110% whisker poles and steering was a Sail-o-Mat windvane.

    That said, a spinnaker the same size as twins, is almost always going to be faster given its lighter weight and better downwind shape. But on a dark night, with squalls lurking, I much preferred the twins as being near bombproof, and auto gybing was a cinch, just turn the boat.

    I was once asked after a SHTP how many times I gybed. My honest answer was "3-4 times a minute." Fearful, he'd only gybed once the whole race.

    But Hot Doggies, does a boat roll DDW under twins. Ask Beetle and he will tell you not to steer DDW, but reach up 20 degrees either side of DDW for more comfort and speed with a poled out jib or jibs.

    The best way to run twins is with roller-furling. But I staggered hanks instead. No roller furling on WF. But knowing what I know now, I would have roller furling headsails, especially more practical for elder singlehanders.
    Last edited by sleddog; 03-29-2021 at 11:08 AM.

  8. #4248
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleddog View Post
    No definitive answer to this, as it depends on boat design, wind speed, who's steering (hand steering, wind vane, or AP. It also depends on the size, weight, and cut of the twins.

    I sailed on a 30 foot Mull design similar to yours that had legal 155% twins with poles to match. G. Mull thought this the fastest way to singlehand to Hawaii, with more area spread than a spinnaker. I pointed out that the owner/skipper was an out-of-shape newbie to sailing, the poles were 17 feet long. And if, in a seaway, one of the poles dipped, the mast would likely come down. It was decided to do the Pac Cup instead, with full crew, no twins and a happier wife.

    On WILDFLOWER, my 27' custom Wylie cruiser displacing about 6,500 pounds, when running DDW in tradewinds 18-22 knots, the boat could average hull speed, 7.5 knots, as fast as a spinnaker, using 125%, 2.2 oz ripstop nylon twins with 110% whisker poles and steering was a Sail-o-Mat windvane.

    That said, a spinnaker the same size as twins, is almost always going to be faster given its lighter weight and better downwind shape. But on a dark night, with squalls lurking, I much preferred the twins as being near bombproof, and auto gybing was a cinch, just turn the boat.

    I was once asked after a SHTP how many times I gybed. My honest answer was "3-4 times a minute." Fearful, he'd only gybed once the whole race.

    But Hot Doggies, does a boat roll DDW under twins. Ask Beetle and he will tell you not to steer DDW, but reach up 20 degrees either side of DDW for more comfort and speed with a poled out jib or jibs.

    The best way to run twins is with roller-furling. But I staggered hanks instead. No roller furling on WF. But knowing what I know now, I would have roller furling headsails, especially more practical for elder singlehanders.
    The best way to run twins is with roller-furling. But I staggered hanks instead. No roller furling on WF. But knowing what I know now, I would have roller furling headsails, especially more practical for elder singlehanders.[/QUOTE]

    You sure gave me a lot to chew on. Nothing in competive or recreational sailing is a straight forward. I have tried many ways of doing things with simple mindness, real thrift and half cooked experimentation with old rags and spars. More often times spoiling once tried than coming to fruition in regular application. The twin headsail down wind was captured in my imagination ever since I heard Baruna raced to Hawaii under double headsails in the Transpac. As you really pointed out it can be really an elegant solution or a terror depending on the skipper's fitness and crew's willingness. The roller furling solution might be the best way to go if matched up to 2 evenly matched sails in addition to my gennaker and symetrical spinnaker. Getting the rig to be balanced and safe are alway on my mind and will be a relief to my wife's concerns. It seems I'll have to come down to visit you some day soon with a pound of good coffee and confections to get you to fill my head with rigging ideas and attentive stories.
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  9. #4249
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    If you said tropical storms and hurricanes can't hit California, primary because the water temp is too cold, you'd be almost right.

    However, researching the halls of history at CBC, there were two rare hurricanes that hit Southern California, one in 1858, and a second in 1939.

    The 1858 hurricane can be found here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1858_San_Diego_hurricane and its path recreated here:

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    1939 was documented on film, taken at the Newport Harbor entrance, and saved for posterity by Al Adams. Dramatic black and white. The boat coming in under sail, STELLA MARIS, was later owned by Dennis Conner's grandparents... Why all the boats attempting to enter in such dangerous conditions? It was Sunday afternoon and they are mostly all returning from Catalina Island, 28 miles to the west. Gotta get the kids back for the start of school on Monday morning.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZl6-xYtZZg
    Last edited by sleddog; 03-30-2021 at 08:37 PM.

  10. #4250
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    That film makes Moss Landing entrance, on a summer afternoon, look placid.

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