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Thread: New Boat 4 Sled

  1. #4561
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    Dec 2013
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    OREGONIAN: Does any Westsail you know carry a 28' whisker pole?

    The answer is No. I personally do not carry a whisker pole and never have on Saraband. I carry a single spinnaker pole of 17' 11 3/4". My J is exactly 18' and is the shortest J of any known W-32. I insured my pole was this length when I made it out of Aluminum pipe, not tubing. Good thing too as I was protested for having an oversized pole and it had to be measured. How many of you have been officially protested and had your equipment measured? Just curious. While ocean racing I also borrow another 18' pole and employ the 2 pole gybe. Thank you

  2. #4562
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    I want to thank sleddog for his time and effort on this Westsail discussion. As stated, the conditions in the photo were ideal and seemed too good to be true. I reached out to sleddog for an additional opinion. I had not considered that the discussion would go public. I thank all of you for your input. I was aware of the error caused by the anemometer location, But could only guess as to the AWA and therefore the TWS.
    With that said, my only contradictory comment to the conclusion would be concerning the TWS. “My estimate is the TWS is 4 to 8 knots”. No. This conclusion is in error. The TWS must be less than 5.9k. The boat taking the photo was motoring at about 6k but seeing a headwind when the wind was somewhere aft. They were motoring parallel to Saraband.
    Bobj said”…. Since the PHRF is a performance handicapping system, have these tweaks been declared so that these tweaked hulls rate faster”? The answer is Yes. Before and after photos were taken and supplied to the YRA. Experts in the field made their ruling. The PCR was soon made up because of Saraband. A W-32’s PCR is 17 seconds faster than it’s PHRF. What is yours?
    My question to Bobj concerning a discussion about Westsail performance is: “Why did you immediately jump to questioning the rating – and our integrity? Is there some other issue going on here? In my last post I mentioned a protest filed against Saraband. There have actually been 3. Why is that?
    Thanks again

  3. #4563
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    Sep 2007
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    This past Thursday, our good friend BobJ wheeled his computer, copier, and file cabinet down the hall to outside the door of his boss's office, dropped off the keys, and left his job for the last time. Friday, organized by Jackie, an enthusiastic crowd of well wishers descended on RYC and then aboard SURPRISE! for beer, cake, and speeches to join Bob and Connie and celebrate Bob's retirement. Congratulations, good Sir, and thank you for all you have done for SSS and keeping all of us, including myself, honest on our reporting.

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    I admired SURPRISE!'s beauty for years here at Santa Cruz and was pleasantly surprised when Bob bought her from friends Chuck and Jeff and asked me to help sail her north to her new home. I can honestly say SURPRISE! under Bob's ownership has been updated and transformed into something very special.

    Carl Schumacher would approve.
    Last edited by sleddog; 10-30-2021 at 08:37 PM.

  4. #4564
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    Sep 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by oregonian View Post
    My question to Bobj concerning a discussion about Westsail performance is: “Why did you immediately jump to questioning the rating – and our integrity? Is there some other issue going on here? In my last post I mentioned a protest filed against Saraband. There have actually been 3. Why is that?
    As you know from these many threads, I'm a details/numbers guy. It's nothing personal. As a numbers guy I also note that the subject race was 33 years ago. Perhaps it's time to move past the perceived offenses. I could tell you about a few against Ragtime! that are much more recent. It seems to be part of our sport.
    .
    Last edited by BobJ; 10-31-2021 at 11:25 AM.

  5. #4565
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleddog View Post
    This past Thursday, our good friend BobJ wheeled his computer, copier, and file cabinet down the hall to outside the door of his boss's office, dropped off the keys, and left his job for the last time. Friday, organized by Jackie, an enthusiastic crowd of well wishers descended on RYC and then aboard SURPRISE! for beer, cake, and speeches to join Bob and Connie and celebrate Bob's retirement. Congratulations, good Sir, and thank you for all you have done for SSS and keeping all of us, including myself, honest on our reporting.
    Sled, thank you for making the long drive to be part of it.

    It's not unusual to see sailing dignitaries like Sled on the deck of the Richmond YC, especially during a big regatta weekend like the Great Pumpkin. So when Connie, (son) Tim and I went up to have dinner and I saw Sled, it didn't register that something else might be happening. I was completely surprised when other friends started appearing and a "Happy Retirement" cake was placed in front of me. They got me again when I was led down to the boat and an even larger group surrounded Surprise! on the dock.

    Thanks again to everyone - I will treasure these memories!
    .
    Last edited by BobJ; 10-31-2021 at 11:27 AM.

  6. #4566
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    May 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobJ View Post
    Sled, thank you for making the long drive to be part of it.

    It's not unusual to see sailing dignitaries like Sled on the deck of the Richmond YC, especially during a big regatta weekend like the Great Pumpkin. So when Connie, (son) Tim and I went up to have dinner and I saw Sled, it didn't register that something else might be happening. I was completely surprised when other friends started appearing and a "Happy Retirement" cake was placed in front of me. They got me again when I was led down to the boat and an even larger group surrounded Surprise! on the dock.

    Thanks again to everyone - I will treasure these memories!
    .
    Happy retirement days!

  7. #4567
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    [QUOTE=oregonian;30123]I want to thank sleddog for his time and effort on this Westsail discussion. As stated, the conditions in the photo were ideal and seemed too good to be true. I was aware of the error caused by the anemometer location, But could only guess as to the AWA and therefore the TWS .With that said, my only contradictory comment to the conclusion would be concerning the TWS. “Sleddog's estimate is the TWS is 4 to 8 knots”. No. His conclusion is in error. The TWS must be less than 5.9k. The boat that took the sailing photo was motoring at 6k but seeing 3k headwind on their anemometer. /QUOTE]

    Sleddogs likes nothing better than a good pile on. In the space of a week, 3 Oregonians have provided one, doubting my opinion, their perogative. But in the case in question citing a passing motoring sailboat's boat speed (BS) and apparent wind speed (AWS) as evidence. If SARABAND's measured wind speed is admitted to be in error, how the heck can SARABAND's skipper verify another boat's readings and calibrations? Because they said so? My experience, even amongst pro sailors and navigators, has found wind speed and angles extremely difficult to calibrate or correct, even with hours of testing and a man at the masthead.

    The fact the passing photo boat was motoring on a delivery, instead of using the apparent wind to motorsail to increase range and decrease fuel usage and engine wear increases my suspicion.

    I would much rather tell you of sleddog versus academia, in this case the Department of Anthropology at Portland State regard maintaining master mariner Francis Drake's ability to sail his leaking and overladen galleon GOLDEN HIND and weakened and frigid crew to weather up the West Coast of North America from Huatulco, Mexico 4,600 miles supposedly as far as far as Straits of Juan de Fuca and Vancouver Island in the spring and summer of 1579. "Gale Alley?" "What's that?" But that discussion will have to wait.

    In our pile on, I will say I've spent many hundreds of hours over 60 years racing down wind in True Wind Speeds of 3 knots and less, most of it on ULDB sleds with large sailplans and minimum wetted service. I know when spinnakers work and don't work, drifter jibs work and don't work, and how to build and carry apparent wind through headers , lifts, lulls, and puffs using nothing but singleply TP and my shaven ears lobes and back of neck for instrumentation in limited visibility.

    The photo provided by SARABAND does show a magical moment of a rare hour of perfect sailing conditions with sail trim and hull form and smoothness to match. The boat is most certainly sailing at 4.2 knots. But is the true wind speed (TWS) and angle (TWA) as seen in the provided photo from aft at 3 knots or less? I really don't think so. I stand by my estimation the TWS is 4, gusting 8, with an average of 6 knots.
    Last edited by sleddog; 11-01-2021 at 07:31 AM.

  8. #4568
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamottep View Post
    Happy retirement days!
    Thanks PJ!

    Re the dog pile, there's a "See, my boat really IS fast!" defensiveness that I don't hear from other owners. It's odd.

  9. #4569
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    The East Coast had a classic nor'easter last week. How'd you like to be anchor watch on the 154' topsail schooner SHENANDOAH at Vineyard Haven Harbor off Cape Cod? Could she run her engine to help the anchor/mooring from dragging? Nope. SHENANDOAH sails without an engine. Think about that for a minute. A gust of 82 knots was recorded at the nearby ferry dock as the low passed almost overhead Thanks to Captain Tad Palmer for the SHENANDOAH photo.

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    Last edited by sleddog; 11-01-2021 at 12:37 PM.

  10. #4570
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    Sep 2007
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    I'm sure glad they all dropped and stowed their roller-furling genoas.


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