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Thread: New Boat 4 Sled

  1. #2981
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    I well remember racing a red Scampi 30 "Red Dragon" back in the early 2000's. I've always thought the deck and cabintop were a bit odd looking, but the boats sail well. They're popular in the Baltic in fact, all over Europe. The one time I've been aboard one, I thought they were pretty comfortable to sail and nicely laid out, down below.

    The 3BF was a fun day! We started just great, were the only dorks to fly a spinnaker at our start, heading for Blackaller. We held on to it for about 15 minutes and then had to dpouse. At Blackaller we were a little bit behind our rating band folks, but not much. Heading to Pt Blunt it was all tight within the rating band class, with Synthia ooching out ahead and us playing chicken with a bunch of Moore 24s, one of which took us up to try to get by so he could play with the other Moore's. After we rounded Blunt we split from the fleet and went up Angel Island for current relief. That was great for about the length of the island, but we should have consolidated at Raccoon strait but.... didn’t. We never ran out of wind until we headed for Red Rock, but we had to tack multiple times up the island and across Raccoon Strait, and seems like everybody out in the main part of the channel had a straight shot at RR. Anyway, it was bad, we were the last boats in our "cluster" to round R.R. the wind went light near Red Rock, it was really ugly...I was sad and grumpy.

    However, we set the spinnaker after Red Rock and after about 20 minutes of light and flukey silliness settled into a nice run down to Treasure Island. We brought the wind with us and didn’t park in the lee of TI. We got around without stopping and spotted a huge parking lot over behind the City. We also watched a J-105 carry their chute up to that parking lot until it collapsed and decided --- "Let's not go there"...so we didn't. Instead we reached up as high as we could, stayed away from the City and in mid-channel until we squeaked by Pier 39. Incredibly, we carried the spinnaker all the way to the finish./...from Red Rock all the way to the finish, hot damn! Between TI and the finish we picked off about 40 boats so that was gratifying after the disaster working our way up to RR. I think we managed to climb from DFL (of the boats that finished) in our class to mid-fleet on the strength of that last leg.

    That tight spinnaker reach was a great test for my new rudder (see earlier thread). George was driving for this part and we never lost control. SWEET.
    Last edited by AlanH; 01-28-2019 at 01:05 PM.
    1968 Selmer Series 9 B-flat and A clarinets
    1962 Buesher "Aristocrat" tenor saxophone
    Piper One Design 24, Hull #35; "Alpha"

  2. #2982
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    Aug 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleddog View Post

    PS...is a Moore 24 with a sprit and asso faster DDW in big breeze than a similar Moore with a symmetric and pole? I say NO, because all the sail area is to leeward on the sprit boat and it would be too unstable and out of balance. Don't ask how I know this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLYDq4PEJRM I rest my case.
    Skip - The video of the Moore 24 SNAFU from the 2017 Coastal Cup, is an Asso Kite on a pole. Karl a good friend of mine, copied the A2.5 that we used on Mas! for the 2016 Pac Cup.

    Mark and I had two asso kites built within the NorCal PHRF rules, an A5 and an A2.5. We built the A5 to fill a reaching gap and had great success with it, we then had the A2.5 runner built. The A2.5 was .5 SQFT smaller than a class kite and was flown on a the class pole about 24 in off the deck, keeping the kite smaller and on the same length pole did not impact our rating. We tested both the A5 and A2.5 in 0 to 32 knots TWS and found it was always faster than the class kite. Over 32 knots TWS we had issues of out of balance, and in the Pac Cup on day 7 we switched to a S3 and rode out the night skipping from wave to wave.

    Reflecting back on that at the KYC bar, we think we should have kept the A2.5 up and Reefed the main, this would have been a faster set up. The reason we went to the S3 we wanted to use something as we had tested. In the 2015 Coastal Cup we had the S3 up in 38 knots TWS. Before we shifted down in the Pac Cup on night 7 we had rounded down, put the mast in the water and were pinned down until we dropped the kite, to say we did not want to do that again was an understatement.

  3. #2983
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    Thanks, Ian, for the enlightenment. My thinking was, and remains, that you can't run DDW in breeze with either an asso or class symmetric on a boat like a Moore 24 without having the spinny attached to a pole that can be partially squared back to balance the boat...Maybe not true on a J-125 and bigger. But I've done more than a few Transpacs with Assos on a penalty pole in breeze, and you can sail lower and faster with the pole a few feet off the headstay. So I agree with you that if you are choosing spinnys for a Transpac, asymmetricals are the best (and only choice.) as their shape gives better windflow across the sail, leading to more stability than rocking and rolling with a symmetrical. But sailing downwind in breeze with just a sprit like the light blue Moore 24 I saw in Moss Landing, and no pole aboard is precarious IMHO. Would you think a Moore 24, SC-27, J-88, O-30 or O-29 with a sprit and no pole for a Race to Hawaii would be an OK choice?

    On another subject, in the video onboard SNAFU, do you think holding the tiller more vertical than horizontal loses leverage? It didn't seem to bother Karl. But a Moore's rudder is not that big. I would encourage those who have rudders that are "heavy to steer" first look at their tiller angle from the rudder shaft. Perpendicular is the optimum for best leverage. To achieve that may require a different tiller profile to clear the cockpit edge.

    Lastly, I used to sail Moore 24's and several times reached that tenuous moment when you may/may not be headed for that dreaded round-down where crew can and do go overboard. I've rescued 3 myself on WILDFLOWER that came off a Pac Coast Championships competitor.

    You have to be quick and proactive, but there are two possible solutions to preventing a Moore 24 or other ultralight from rounding down. As the boat starts to take the leeward broach, either slip the afterguy forward 4-6 feet so the pole goes almost to the headstay. Alternatively, blow the halyard. The spinny will blow out in front of the boat, never touching the water, and can be rehoisted at will. Doggies. Not easy DH, where the partner is "off watch" and unavailable until awoken and realizes he's sleeping on the side of the hull.
    Last edited by sleddog; 01-29-2019 at 09:30 PM.

  4. #2984
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    Nov 2007
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    Moore 24 = the best small offshore boat EVER.

  5. #2985
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    My thinking was, and remains, that you can't run DDW in breeze with either an asso or class symmetric on a boat like a Moore 24 without having the spinny attached to a pole that can be partially squared back to balance the boat
    On the Wylie 44 Ocelot we had 10 percent turbo poles w/reaching struts and in planning mode we were deep running with the pole almost on the forestay. Always Asym spins. We went to a fixed pole and could run as deep with a lot less gear/weight and foredeck clutter. It always felt great to square back those poles a bit but it end it seemed we were faster without them and did changes much more safely.
    Last edited by solosailor; 01-28-2019 at 04:54 PM.

  6. #2986
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    Though we hit a whale one night off Baja in a 67 foot ultralight (tonnage won, the whale prevailed..), the idea a J-105 in Saturday's 3BF was de-ruddered by accidental contact with a whale inside San Francisco Bay is pretty amazing. I wonder what the Inland Rules and insurance adjuster say about that? A whale underway is neither a vessel nor under power. Possibly constrained by depth?.

    While working out the new knee this morning, I asked my PT what she did this weekend. "Oh, rode my bike at Fort Ord."

    "See anything interesting?" I asked?

    "Just a mountain lion," she replied. "It didn't seem too interested."

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    Thanks to Ginny K for her pic.
    Last edited by sleddog; 01-29-2019 at 09:35 PM.

  7. #2987
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    My sister and bro-in-law are currently exploring the coast of Chile in a small, stick, rental Nissan Marche. Apparently, mostly dirt roads.They took a ferry to Isla Chiloe and drove to Ancud, where the took they below photo, people loaded in a large market shopping cart. What are these people doing?? A hint is the word "Magellan."

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    Closer to home, I've had two close friends in the last week fall and break their pelvis. One, our local rigger Steve, came off his roof and landed on his back on an aluminum ladder. My sister-in-law tripped on a vacuum cleaner cord and did a face plant. Both are in rehab facilities for 6 weeks, non-weight bearing. And both are lucky that paralyzation did not result.

    Just up the coast 3 miles, the Santa Cruz Harbor Dredge TWIN LAKES, is sucking furiously to create a channel through the entrance shoal. Tonight's storm may undo a week's work.
    Last edited by sleddog; 01-31-2019 at 03:39 PM.

  8. #2988
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleddog View Post
    Just up the coast 3 miles, the Santa Cruz Harbor Dredge TWIN LAKES, is sucking furiously to create a channel through the entrance shoal.
    Somewhere, a certain yawl is smiling.

  9. #2989
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    Isla Chiloe is on my very short list of places to visit soon.
    1968 Selmer Series 9 B-flat and A clarinets
    1962 Buesher "Aristocrat" tenor saxophone
    Piper One Design 24, Hull #35; "Alpha"

  10. #2990
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleddog View Post

    What are these people doing?? A hint is the word "Magellan."

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    Going out to view the Humboldt and Magellanic Penguins at Islotes Puñihuil.

    Having been in that part of the world not to long ago, I didn’t have to think too long about your hint. But without the hint...it would have been hard to guess.

    They use the cart to traverse the shallow water to get the folks out to a panga. No wet landings.

    Tom

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