Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 34

Thread: 2012 Three Bridge Fiasco

  1. #11
    pogen's Avatar
    pogen is offline Sailing canoe "Kūʻaupaʻa"
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    927

    Default

    At the moment the prelim results page has the Division names all jumbled up; last night it looked OK.

    Great day racing and thanks to the committee for their prompt work.

    I heard elsewhere about problems with commercial traffic and 5-horn incidents near Pier 39. How much of a problem was this really? And are we talking freighters/tankers, which are vessels constrained by draft, or just the Alcatraz sight-seeing boats, which I don't believe have legal rights over sailboats, although I do my best to stay out of their way, and also the ferries.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    224

    Default

    We heard the Alcatraz ferries complain about the sailboat traffic on the VHF stating rule 9. I don't think that applies to them but they were mad that they couldn't get in or out of Pier 39. One ferry captain laid on the horn while still out halfway between Alcatraz and the pier.(with no sailboats around yet) Another came charging into Pier 39 way too fast while blowing the horn. Obviously frustrated but still bad form...

    Rule 9 is here:
    http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName...sContent#rule9

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Gutoff View Post
    We heard the Alcatraz ferries complain about the sailboat traffic on the VHF stating rule 9. I don't think that applies to them but they were mad that they couldn't get in or out of Pier 39. One ferry captain laid on the horn while still out halfway between Alcatraz and the pier.(with no sailboats around yet) Another came charging into Pier 39 way too fast while blowing the horn. Obviously frustrated but still bad form...

    Rule 9 is here:
    http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName...sContent#rule9
    I did here that, and wonder if that person is just new to bay sailing. It's not like they have remote control for the boats out there.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    577

    Default

    The problem with Rule 9 around here, as I understand it, is that much of the bay is designated a "narrow channel". The ferries aren't constrained by draft, but obviously they can't operate outside this "narrow channel" if it includes the whole bay.

    I've searched for a chart showing what's designated a narrow channel, but I've never found it.

    Max

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Berkeley
    Posts
    112

    Default Pier 39 Ferries

    Maybe some outreach is in order. I can understand why they were frustrated and we may not fully understand some of their limitation. The question is really were they just frustrated and having a difficult time keeping schedule, or was the situation really unsafe.

    They may not understand why we don't just fire up our motors and get out of the way. I think any of us would do that if the situation became unsafe. But they may not understand or care that it would disqualify us.

    if it is just frustration or schedule keeping I say tough luck and welcome to the Bay. Other forms of traffic are affected by other sporting events like bike races, marathons etc.

    Tony

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    59

    Default

    About Pier 39 I kept getting the term "restricted area" used by, first, a man who identified himself and then a woman came on the radio quite frustrated with us and giving us a warning of when she was coming into Pier 39. At that point I put the radio down and wouldn't engage any further in the conversation.

    On race deck we can hear the horns and we had not heard any 5 blasts until long after the transmission I received so . . .

    And about results, does anyone remember my memo at the skippers' meeting about don't even go there with me. I'll just tell ya that Matt and I spent the better part of this evening going over the video and we are up to 50 boats maybe so . . . as Foster says "to be continued."

  7. #17
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Richmond YC
    Posts
    62

    Default

    This old one again.

    Ferries have no special rights on SF bay. This has been established several times. A sailing acquaintance of mine even brought it up face to face with a ferry skipper one day and this was acknowledged.

    Most folks make reference to the Port Captain's directive contained in SF Public Advisory 05-95, which basically says all the deep-water channels marked in the bay are considered narrow channels for the purpose of rule 9, which says vessels less than 20 meters, and all sailboats, will not impede the safe passage of a vessel that is constrained to stay within the channel.

    See http://www.uscg.mil/d11/vtssf/rule9.asp for a discussion of rule 9 on SF bay.

    THe port captain's directive 05-95 used to be posted online but I can't find it any more. I have a PDF copy if anyone would like it, send me your email.

    The port captain's directive "...identifies areas where deep draft commercial and public vessels routinely operate." The term "public" here refers to recreational boats.

    So the focus is clearly on having small vessels stay clear of large vessels that are a) not very maneuverable and b) required to stay in the shipping channel. Ferries are a) very maneuverable and b) criss-cross the channels all the time.

    So: rule 9, and the SF public advisory 05-95, do not extend to ferries, tugs, pilot boats, work boats, or other sundry "non-recreational" boats. In other words: commercial vessels (as such) don't have any more rights than non-commercial vessels.

    Also, a quick perusal of the charts for the Pier 39 (or Pier 1, for that matter) area don't show any special restriction. The waters around Pier 39 are part of the eastbound lane, in which sailboats must not impede constrained vessels. But ferries ain't constrained.

    Now, I would say it is only common courtesy to avoid interfering with a passenger vessel on a scheduled run, especially right next to its dock where it may be trying to maneuver in close quarters with obstructions, etc. But that's common sense, not regulatory.

    Just my .02,
    Bob Walden

  8. #18
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Richmond YC
    Posts
    62

    Default

    Jan: How did these people contact you--radio? What channel? Were they VTS, or ferry crew?

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    448

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan Brewer View Post
    And about results, does anyone remember my memo at the skippers' meeting about don't even go there with me. I'll just tell ya that Matt and I spent the better part of this evening going over the video and we are up to 50 boats maybe so . . . as Foster says "to be continued."
    Hi Jan - any chance of bringing the start line video over to the club for running in the background at the trophy presentation? We could bring OYC's big TV upstairs and run the video on it - always kinda fun to see the mayhem from the RC's perspective!

    - rob/beetle

  10. #20
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    18

    Default

    I big thank you to SSS and the race deck - what a job - and the results up so quickly. Mucho appreciated.

    Greg Mitchell
    HapaGirl
    Contour 34

Similar Threads

  1. 2012 3-Bridge Fiasco Discussion
    By Wylieguy in forum Singlehanded Sailing Society
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 01-05-2012, 12:07 PM
  2. 2011 Three Bridge Fiasco
    By Matt in forum Singlehanded Sailing Society
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 02-01-2011, 03:34 PM
  3. Pictures of Three Bridge Fiasco
    By Matt in forum Singlehanded Sailing Society
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 02-03-2010, 12:18 PM
  4. Looking to crew in 3 Bridge Fiasco
    By ronnie simpson in forum Singlehanded Sailing Society
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-29-2010, 11:05 AM
  5. Three Bridge Fiasco
    By Travieso in forum Singlehanded Sailing Society
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 02-03-2009, 09:21 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •